Is Roy Keane actually a good pundit

[POF]

I don't have a issue with anyone. I just find Keane to be a cnut, whilst others have their heads buried in his backside.

That's fair enough. You can dislike whoever you want. It's just a shame that Keane had the last laugh.

 

[breakout67]

Context is everything. Keane is coming from a completely different set of rules to many that are employed in modern management. It’s a post-modern job now, sadly, and you have to give Guardiola, Klopp, Pochettino et al kudos for how they motivate players in this modern era of massive wages and instant
stardom.

Guardiola motivates feck all. He just buys a stacked team and pits the players against each other until one comes out on top (Sterling vs Sane, Aguero v Jesus, B.Silva vs De Bruyne). Klopp on the other hand is a motivator, one of the best motivators in the business unfortunately.

 

[Adnan]

That's fair enough. You can dislike whoever you want. It's just a shame that Keane had the last laugh.

Queiroz had the last laugh because he was pivotal in us winning league titles and was given huge credit for our Champions League success. Keane on the other hand, was a failure wherever he went, which was mostly in the lower leagues managing the likes of Sunderland and Ipswich.

 

[Oscar.Z.Acosta]

Guardiola motivates feck all. He just buys a stacked team and pits the players against each other until one comes out on top (Sterling vs Sane, Aguero v Jesus, B.Silva vs De Bruyne). Klopp on the other hand is a motivator, one of the best motivators in the business unfortunately.

I disagree. The way his players work for him (even ones like Aguero who didn’t like it at first) is a pretty clear indicator that Guardiola can motivate a team pretty well.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Thought his point about Darmian was a wierd one tonight. Can be be that out of touch that he is shocked Darmian would be tired 70 mins into his first start in however long. If the rest of the squad are unfit imagine what darmian must be like

 

[Betson]

Keane is a cnut , Scholes is a cnut , Neville is a cnut , all because none of them like the direction the club is going and have been warning about this for years now.

If Fergie ever comes out and despairs at the direction we are going , then he will be a cnut.

Too many here just don't want to hear the truth.

 

[stepic]

People actually disagreed with Keane tonight?

I don’t understand.

 

[breakout67]

I disagree. The way his players work for him (even ones like Aguero who didn’t like it at first) is a pretty clear indicator that Guardiola can motivate a team pretty well.

Sane doesn't work for him and Jesus just kicks people whenever he comes on. Mendy also doesn't work for him, just a headless chicken. All will be collateral damage in another £200m spending spree.

 

[Chekhov]

Only Pogba’s

I hate Pogba as much as the next guy, but he'd brutalize Roy--today's version or any previous one. Enough with the mythologizing.

 

[Bastian]

A dinosaur, a shit manager, hothead, etc. It tires me to see people slate an absolute legend. He's wasn't wrong either.

 

[Bastian]

I hate Pogba as much as the next guy, but he'd brutalize Roy--today's version or any previous one. Enough with the mythologizing.

Behave.

 

[breakout67]

I hate Pogba as much as the next guy, but he'd brutalize Roy--today's version or any previous one. Enough with the mythologizing.

Those dangly limbs, not to mention his friendly personality no way. Lukaku on the other hand would absolutely destroy Keane, when our team had a brawl with City during the derby last season Lukaku threw fists and punched someone, the guy is willing to fight.

 

[Oscar.Z.Acosta]

I hate Pogba as much as the next guy, but he'd brutalize Roy--today's version or any previous one. Enough with the mythologizing.

Mmmm, I wouldn’t be so sure about this. Did you see Roy Keane play?

 

[POF]

Queiroz had the last laugh because he was pivotal in us winning league titles and was given huge credit for our Champions League success. Keane on the other hand, was a failure wherever he went, which was mostly in the lower leagues managing the likes of Sunderland and Ipswich.

I meant over you. You're the one calling him a cnut on an internet forum and inventing feuds he was supposed to have had while he is oblivious to it and getting paid to talk on TV about United.

I really don't think there is any doubt who has had the better career in football between Roy Keane and Carlos Queiroz.

 

[Random Task]

Pogba vs Keane.

Streetfight.

Who would win?

 

[charlenefan]

Absolute rubbish. He’s not a shit coach and you should be judging him on the fact he won umpteen titles for United and knows what he’s talking about.

Don't judge him as a coach but do judge him as a player?

The CAF gets more and more people with only a day on Earth it seems

 

[redmanx]

A good piece on this subject from Irish site The 42.

IT IS JUST over 10 years since one of Roy Keane’s most famous quips.

In November 2008, unhappy at criticism of high-achieving managers such as Arsene Wenger, the then-Sunderland boss told reporters:

“I was asked by ITV to do the Celtic versus Manchester United game but I’ve done it once for Sky and never again. I’d rather go to the dentist.

“You’re sitting there with people like Richard Keys and they’re trying to sell something that’s not there.

“Anytime I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say ‘he’s playing well’ and I’m thinking ‘no, he’s not’. My advice to anyone is don’t listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinions.”

It was hard not to recall those quotes on Sunday, as Keane appeared as part of Sky Sports’ lengthy coverage of Southampton-Arsenal and Liverpool-Man United.

The sense that Keane, who has also been a regular as part of ITV’s Champions League coverage in recent years, increasingly appears to be embracing punditry is the latest example of the contradictory nature of this complex figure.

The former Man United captain earlier this year was involved in a bust-up with Ireland internationals Harry Arter and Jon Walters.

Multiple reports have indicated Keane’s anger in that instance emanated from when he discovered that the two players in question were told not to train by the FAI medical staff owing to injury problems.

This criticism was coming from the same person who famously fell out with Mick McCarthy, after the manager accused him of faking injury ahead of the 2002 World Cup, while Keane also praised Ruud van Nistelrooy in his second autobiography for opting out of a Man United-Arsenal match.

“There I was thinking he was the fool, but I think now that I probably was,” he explained

“I played, and my hamstring was f****** killing me.

“I think I actually had a torn hamstring.

“Ruud ended up playing in Spain till he was 39, and he still looks 21.”

The above comments were a fascinating insight from the former player, but one of the disappointing aspects of Keane’s post-playing career is that his punditry and analysis of games can often be disappointingly basic.

For a man who demanded such high standards from his team-mates and was a notorious perfectionist when it came to preparation as a footballer — a characteristic that prompted a substantial portion of his anger amid the shambolic training facilities that led to the famous controversy in Saipan — there is a conspicuous lack of detail in the content of his TV criticisms.

And something that Keane has going for him, of course, is his honesty — he will not hesitate to hammer someone who is perceived to be deserving of his wrath, in contrast with many of the other more tame pundits that populate our TV screens.

Keane’s most famous and memorable pieces of analysis usually tend to be one-liners.

“If Ashley Young is a Manchester United player, I’m a Chinaman,” he once said of the England international.

He also suggested a few years back that certain Arsenal players were more interested in “selfies, six-packs and their hair” than winning titles — a strange criticism, when you consider more successful sides such as Barcelona and Real Madrid also routinely post selfies of themselves after victories.

Consequently, Keane, it seems clear from his punditry to date, has a suspicion of modern players and their habits.

Today, it felt almost as if fellow Sky analyst Gary Neville was setting him up for an assist when he brought up the clothing range Man United star Jesse Lingard launched earlier this week. Keane’s response was predictable.

“If it was a good strong dressing room that wouldn’t be tolerated, and that’s why I worry about the United dressing room,” he said.

While such comments may be amusing to some, suggesting that Lingard doing something so innocuous during his time off is linked with United’s problems seems a tenuous claim at best. Even superstars such as Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo devote plenty of time to their other business interests, and it hardly seems to affect them unduly.

The former Celtic and Nottingham Forest player is comfortable with these type of put-downs and they can often seem relatively effective on ITV, where time is limited and pundits are only afforded a few minutes to air their views.

On Sky, by comparison, there is greater scope for extensive analysis as pundits are allowed more air time.

Moreover, a good question to ask when assessing a pundit is: ‘Are they saying something the majority of viewers are unlikely to know?’

The average person who pays for Sky is more likely to be a hardcore football fan rather than the casual supporters who only watch big games on terrestrial TV, so it is expected that the analysis will be more sophisticated and in-depth with the satellite broadcaster.

Figures such as Jamie Carragher and Gary Neville are subsequently popular because they frequently come across as intelligent and insightful.

There are plenty of examples of their excellent analysis from over the years, particularly on Monday Night Football, where many hours are devoted to meticulous preparation beforehand.

But take one isolated illustration from Neville today.

“Will Mourinho leave? I think it will happen, my preference would always be to get to the end of the season. But the boardroom is so naive it’s unbelievable,” he said.

“To give him an extended contract, knowing his cycle of every three years, was incredible. The minute he came back from pre-season he was at it and the club was out of control.

Nobody above him can handle him. They don’t know what to do with him, they don’t know what to say to him. They don’t know what he’s going to say at every press conference. It will cost a fortune to lose him now.”
The above statement is an opinion backed up with a coherent explanation. Many viewers will likely have forgotten about that contract extension, and the compensation which parting ways with the Portuguese coach would require is a valid point and one that not many pundits have brought up.

Contrast that example with Keane’s comments.

“The players are not good enough.” “Paul Pogba’s days are numbered.” “United are an average Premier League side.”

None of these opinions are necessarily incorrect. But it is the type of analysis that most fans could easily give. Quite frankly, it is stating the obvious.

Granted, Keane should not be judged too harshly on one performance. If he appears on Sky more often in the future, he may become more comfortable with the long-form format.

But the suspicion in recent times is that Keane’s old-school ways and ostensible tendency to wish football was still as it was in Brian Clough’s heyday is holding him back as a manager.

When modern players want detail and sophistication, he offers jarring truisms. In the Ireland set-up, you got the sense that players were told to sort it themselves on the pitch rather than being given especially specific instructions.

As Wolves’ Matt Doherty said in a revealing interview just after Keane and Martin O’Neill’s reign had ended: “When you were away with Ireland, you didn’t really have that much coaching. It was more of five-a-side, or 11-a-side game, and that would be it.”

In a sense, you feel these criticisms could apply to Keane’s punditry.

Great pundits do not always make excellent managers, and vice versa, but good communication skills are vital for success in both roles, so the two are not entirely incompatible.

In an era when sophistication and specific tactical analysis is increasingly expected of experts as football fans and participants become more educated amid the significant increase in media coverage of the sport since the Premier League began, the Corkonian seems intent on remaining defiantly out of fashion.

Then turn the sound down.

 

[Chekhov]

Mmmm, I wouldn’t be so sure about this. Did you see Roy Keane play?

Playing football and fighting are two distinct things.

And as far as the dangly limbs are concerned, that physique often lends itself to some of the hardest power punching in contact sports (Tommy Hearns, Alexis Arguello, Bob Foster, Sandy Saddler, etc.). Furthermore, it's not as if Keane is a physically imposing figure himself. Ffs, open your damn eyes. The guy's a skinny runt with a sour puss. Big damn deal.

 

[Green_Red]

Keane referred to Queiroz as Ronaldo's dad and criticised Fletcher and the young players in a MUTV which was deemed as vicious by one journalist. He was a fantastic player but an absolute cnut of a human being.

And to the person saying Keane would have Pogba's blood all over the dressing room... A 6ft4 Pogba would trample over a 5ft 9inch midget like Keane.

Pogba is a pussycat. 6'4" of mammys boy. One slap would put him right in his place. Look at him on the pitch, couple of hard tackles and he goes missing. We start losing and he throws his dummy out of the pram.

 

[redmanx]

Those dangly limbs, not to mention his friendly personality no way. Lukaku on the other hand would absolutely destroy Keane, when our team had a brawl with City during the derby last season Lukaku threw fists and punched someone, the guy is willing to fight.

I seem to recall Keane had his share of fights with players like Viera. There are very few players today who would want to get in a ruck with a Keane or Viera in their pomp.

 

[redmanx]

People actually disagreed with Keane tonight?

I don’t understand.

Keane was spot on, not because hes a great pundit but because he cares, United are still important to him, more so than it is to most of our current players.

 

[Chekhov]

So now old man "get off my lawn, you damn kids!" sort of rants is what passes for punditry these days?

I understand we're angry, but not everything on the pitch can be solved by running more, though you would think so by listening to the likes of Keane.

Pep has forgotten more about football than Keane will ever know, and it's plainly evident to anyone who listens to Roy's simplistic takes on matches.

 

[redmanx]

Pogba is a pussycat. 6'4" of mammys boy. One slap would put him right in his place. Look at him on the pitch, couple of hard tackles and he goes missing. We start losing and he throws his dummy out of the pram.

Not that I wish to encourage violence but there are very few players today who would want to tangle with Roy Keane, Keane never backed down from anybody and defended his players when opposition players tried to take liberties.

 

[Rory 7]

I hate Pogba as much as the next guy, but he'd brutalize Roy--today's version or any previous one. Enough with the mythologizing.

Mad.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I disagree. The way his players work for him (even ones like Aguero who didn’t like it at first) is a pretty clear indicator that Guardiola can motivate a team pretty well.

I don't buy into the Aguero works harder story - I think we've just accepted it because it sounds like it fits. I genuinely think he's so good and was already highly technical that Pep just lets him get on with it. He was never a lazy forward and was always on the move, always hungry to nick the ball and a general handful prior to Pep's arrival.

 

[breakout67]

Playing football and fighting are two distinct things.

And as far as the dangly limbs are concerned, that physique often lends itself to some of the hardest power punching in contact sports (Tommy Hearns, Alexis Arguello, Bob Foster, Sandy Saddler, etc.). Furthermore, it's not as if Keane is a physically imposing figure himself. Ffs, open your damn eyes. The guy's a skinny runt with a sour puss. Big damn deal.

Hilarious that you talk about fighters when Roy Keane has boxing training. Pogba is not a fighter he is a harmoniser. He'd try to talk Keane down and get floored because Keane is a cnut like that. Lukaku on the other hand...Keane would punch him and he wouldn't feel a thing.

 

[Green_Red]

Not that I wish to encourage violence but there are very few players today who would want to tangle with Roy Keane, Keane never backed down from anybody and defended his players when opposition players tried to take liberties.

No I'm not encouraging it either but there aren't many players around nowadays that know how to channel their aggression because there aren't many that have aggressive personalities, especially not here, which is why we get turned over by teams like wolves. Theres a brilliant United Arsenal game from 2002 on YouTube. I'd love to see that United team play this one.

Anyway back on topic. I dont mind Keanes punditry but as someone pointed out he is used as a device to steer narratives. I'm surprised him and Sourness dont have any bust ups. Theres probably a mutual respect between them. Two proper midfield generals.

 

[Chekhov]

Hilarious that you talk about fighters when Roy Keane has boxing training. Pogba is not a fighter he is a harmoniser. He'd try to talk Keane down and get floored because Keane is a cnut like that. Lukaku on the other hand...Keane would punch him and he wouldn't feel a thing.

Boxing training. Ha ha. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry who's ever laced up a pair of gloves claims to have had "boxing training." Big deal.

 

[Rory 7]

So Pogba doesn't track back...

Did Ronaldo?

Is Pogba being told to track back? If he's not doing what he's told, why isn't the manager being criticized for not subbing him.

Pogba is obviously the easy target for these bitter pundits for whatever reason.

He's come out and held his hands up after the game and that's unprofessional and bitchy from Keane.

He's literally been our best player this season ffs. It's laughable,

Wow. You can’t seriously be comparing the two? Time to give up on Pogba, admit it.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Boxing training. Ha ha. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry who's ever laced up a pair of gloves claims to have had "boxing training." Big deal.

To be fair Keane was an undefeated amateur boxer in his youth but, 47 year old Keane would stand no chance against 26 year old Pogba

 

[Bastian]

So now old man "get off my lawn, you damn kids!" sort of rants is what passes for punditry these days?

I understand we're angry, but not everything on the pitch can be solved by running more, though you would think so by listening to the likes of Keane.

Pep has forgotten more about football than Keane will ever know, and it's plainly evident to anyone who listens to Roy's simplistic takes on matches.

Give it a rest Anton, the refrain of "old man this and that" is getting tired. You probably weren't around to see Keane play.

 

[pocco]

Never seen either fight so I'm not bothered about commenting on that. But where it really matters in this case, ie on the pitch, Keane would dominate Pogba. Keane talks the truth when it comes to what is required to make it at United.

 

[stepic]

So now old man "get off my lawn, you damn kids!" sort of rants is what passes for punditry these days?

I understand we're angry, but not everything on the pitch can be solved by running more, though you would think so by listening to the likes of Keane.

Pep has forgotten more about football than Keane will ever know, and it's plainly evident to anyone who listens to Roy's simplistic takes on matches.

We don’t run because we lack the fitness to do so. We looked ok in the first half because we put pressure on City, and they made mistakes and didn’t look like they were playing their usual game. But we all knew we couldn’t keep it up all game, and we didn’t.

We need to run more.

City run their socks off when not in possession. Pep wants players who can run. Keane was spot on with that call on Darmian on Sane. It was a poor effort. Down to fitness, again, no doubt.

 

[redmanx]

Hilarious that you talk about fighters when Roy Keane has boxing training. Pogba is not a fighter he is a harmoniser. He'd try to talk Keane down and get floored because Keane is a cnut like that. Lukaku on the other hand...Keane would punch him and he wouldn't feel a thing.

That's fair enough. You can dislike whoever you want. It's just a shame that Keane had the last laugh.

What ever Roy Keane is today, what ever his faults, as a player he was superb and as a United player he is a true legend, a player respected, and feared, by his team mates and opposition, his contribution to Uniteds success under SAF cannot be over stated, so, if he chooses to go on TV and air his opinions, so what, he earned the right, something which cannot be said of most of our current players.

 

[Adnan]

I meant over you. You're the one calling him a cnut on an internet forum and inventing feuds he was supposed to have had while he is oblivious to it and getting paid to talk on TV about United.

I really don't think there is any doubt who has had the better career in football between Roy Keane and Carlos Queiroz.

You seem to be getting touchy over Keane..

The issue Keane had with Queiroz was over his coaching methods/role. Not sure what their playing careers has to do with Queiroz having the last laugh in their feud.

 

[P0GBA]

Mad.

Yes Keane gave big Pete a black eye back in the day so Pogba wouldn't have causes him too much of a problem.

 

[Leanshig]

Queiroz had the last laugh because he was pivotal in us winning league titles and was given huge credit for our Champions League success. Keane on the other hand, was a failure wherever he went, which was mostly in the lower leagues managing the likes of Sunderland and Ipswich.

That Quieroz "Ronaldo's dad" quote is a total lie. Than was Van Nistelrooy. Queiroz is yet another pawn credited for Fergusons success and the actual achievements of players like Keane.

 

[Adnan]

That Quieroz "Ronaldo's dad" quote is a total lie. Than was Van Nistelrooy. Queiroz is yet another pawn credited for Fergusons success and the actual achievements of players like Keane.

Gary Neville himself credited Queiroz for masterminding the semi final win over Barcelona in 2008. But please carry on spouting nonsense.

 

[Leanshig]

Gary Neville himself credited Queiroz for masterminding the semi final win over Barcelona in 2008. But please carry on spouting nonsense.

A 1-0 win at home where we spent 80 mins playing Inter 2010 esque balls against the walls after performing shite in Nou Camp? Wow. Nationalize the man and knight him. Barca were in complete meltdown that season with Rijkard. Selective memories.


If Quieroz was that good of a coach you think he would've made it anywhere else. Hell, speaking of Keane, I'd argue Keane getting Sunderland out of the relegation zone in the championship, promoted and keeping them up is a better achievement than anything Quieroz has done in management.

 

[Adnan]

A 1-0 win at home after performing shite in Nou Camp? Wow. Nationalize the man and knight him.

Tell that to Neville and Fergie who lavished praise on him the way he set us up.

Played shite at the Nou Camp?