He wasn’t good at imparting it to the players.
Appointing Solskjaer was a mistake
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All positives, I agree. Plus he’s obviously not an idiot. I just hope this is enough.
Now this is what worries me
Not defending Ole (I personally don't think he has what it takes, unfortunately), but what makes you so sure Pochettino would succeed in the current structure? IMO until we fix the underlying structural rot (including but not limited to: scouting network, recruitment strategy, negotiations, succession planning), any manager who comes here is doomed.
Correct. You can add to that replacing chief executive and owners. People don't want to see just how deep the rot goes, because then they'll realise it will take a generation to fix it. Easier to bang on from our armchairs about lazy players and incompetent managers.
If he doesn’t truly believe he can get us back on track this summer, he should step down. The club can not afford another lethal injection of shite signings. We will well and truly go down the Milan/Liverpool route if he mess this one up.
Been sleeping under a rock for the past 6 years?
We need to build from the get go, and it should start with Ole.
If someone thinks a manager needs to leave within four months of joining a club, they are clearly morons and I don't mind calling them out on it.
Also hilariously ironic that you insult me in a post where you try and call me out for insulting people. Gowl.
And how exactly do you know Ole is up to the task, when our last three managers who had infinitely higher amount of experience, failed? We obviously needed a DOF from the get go when Jose was sacked. That hasn’t happened so if Ole isn’t up to the task, we’re totally screwed again.
I didn’t say he was up for the task, I said that the turnover should start with him. Our previous managers created nothing but ruckus. Solskjær is United all the way, and will make decisions that will benefit the club in the long run. You use lack of experience as an example that he will fail, that means in your eyes we should appoint a manager with even more experience, because that’s all that is to be up for the task right? Lava and Mou has plenty, yet failed. Maybe that’s not the solution?
Solskjær is a man the fans should have patient with, hence the SAF speech at his last game. Not Moyes, or Mourinho.
You got that from my post? That I'm a Mourinho fan? And despite me saying numerous times - including the very next line even - that I really can't stand the man? I was just elaborating on the point that all managers have their ups and downs and that even Mourinho wasn't a complete disaster for us - nor someone worthy of getting dismissed then tossed aside without being given a fair chance straight after getting the job. That even him - a man I've specifically marked out as someone I harbor no warm feelings towards whatsoever - added some positivity and good moments to our history by winning us a couple of TROPHIES (happy now?) and also guiding us to what's so far our best season post-Ferguson.
You guys can't even properly analyze the texts your replying to - even then you lack both perspective and disregard any context despite everything being elaborated on several times over even - and yet you feel yourselves qualified to slag off both players and managers alike as if you are experts on what's going on within a squad and on the field disregarding circumstances that are obvious to everyone else?
And no improvements? Really? How about you just look at the table? If there were no improvements we'd be at 52 points by now not even having a glimpse of top-four. I doubt we would have made it past PSG as well.
And yeah you are worse supporters than people who take a more sober stance not getting all riled up every time something goes wrong - who focuses on doing their best (within reason of course) adding to the positive atmosphere rather than degrading the club and it's representatives every chance they get. And you're not just worse supporters because your whole approach is lacking perspective and completely moronic by the way - for reasons pointed out several times over (funny by the way how you once more disregard every argument made against your stance before repeating it blindly as if nothing's happened). You see it works like this:
Man-management: Adds 0-10% to a squad's potential and also helps the coaching staff build either constructive or destructive relationships that might prove beneficial or damaging in terms of attracting others to the club.
Support: Adds another 0-10% but as it is with man management it also helps build a good or bad reputation across the footballing community making it either easier or harder for a club to attract talent.
Tactics: Adds another 0-15%.
65% of how a team performs is up to the players themselves - they're always the main reason behind a team's success rate - the rest is down to how fit they are, how well they're organized, tactical precision and to which degree they're feeling inspired. Also treating players and staff like crap could backfire massively both in the short term and in the long run as most footballers aren't just drones who'll push on even as people spit in their faces nor will they magically disappear from this realm of existence and have their memories wiped clean the moment they leave a club. No - shocking I'm aware - but they're actual human beings who interacts with each other - yes forms friendships too sometimes across clubs even those cheeky bastards - long after having been either sold off or retired.
So this is what we'll focus on here - the "inspired" part and the importance of being good ambassadors for a club not pissing everyone involved with it off - as that's what supporters are supposed to be doing. And if you want to know what being a good supporter means - which approach inspires the most and makes you the best possible ambassador - I'm going to introduce you to two concepts I like to call "The King's Trial" and "Who's Your Daddy?"
They go like this - The King's Trial first:
We start by lining up in front of Cantona - all of us - before sorting ourselves into two groups. People such as yourselves standing on one side - meaning those who are quick on the draw in terms of condemning players and staff and demanding they get fired and thrown away like garbage every time they fail to deliver - and in the other group we gather supporters with a more sober approach who focuses most of their efforts on lifting everyone's spirit furthering positivity. We then act out our impulses before asking Cantona the following question: "Which group of supporters would you feel the most sorry about having let down - and which ones would you consider kicking straight in the face even if it meant risking your entire career throwing everything you've achieved down the drain?"
Then we have the Who's Your Daddy? approach. It's a similar concept - quite simple and based on how you get a dog to choose it's favorite parent during a divorce. What we do is we'll gather all the greatest footballing talents - players and coaches alike - in the center of the pitch - before lining up on each flank sorted into the same groups as above. We then read our forum posts out loud to them for an hour - you guys slagging everyone off demanding they get fired or telling them to resign (the way you usually do) - and us being more analytical and understanding by putting things into context and not just focusing on the bad but also balancing it out with the good telling them to cheer up hoping they'll improve before investing some faith into them (the way we prefer it). At the end of that hour we ask them "Now who's your daddy? Who's your daddy boy? Who's your daddy?" and see which group they run off to - eager eyed with tails wagging and tongues flapping about in the breeze and everything.
I'll never take anything for granted of course as to how those footballers would go about choosing - some may just be so masochistic or broken on the inside they'll sprint your way - and equally far be it for me to speculate how the The King would decide as The King usually does what The King feels like answering to nobody except of course The King (though I would remind you Solskjær and him are old teammates and on friendly terms as far as I know) - but long story short: If you're someone Cantona would contemplate kicking - and someone footballers would run away from not towards - then you're doing it wrong and you're a shite supporter.
Edit note: Oh and by the way the team Ole built in Norway then left behind so he could manage ours is now best in it's league - eleven points ahead of second place (the ones that's been dominating Norwegian football for as long as I've lived) after having beaten them 3-0 today. So it remains to be seen what he'll achieve here but he built his previous club into great shape - again (he's been the architect behind all three of their title runs) - and also he gave up being a champion at home to try and salvage the mess we're in here so no matter what he still deserves our recognition and respect.
You can call him a "clueless manager" all you want but that's rich considering his merits and coming from someone who can't even muster enough talent to properly troll a forum
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No, what I’m saying is hiring a DOF was key, seeing as our previous three experienced managers failed. The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and we’re doing it again, with a manager with vastly less experience than those three. How does that make any sense, rather he’s a legend or not. It’s incredible that there’s fans that aren’t even suspecting another utter train wreck.
Would you consider Real Madrid morons for getting rid of Solari and Julen Lopetegui in a similar amount of time. Bearing in mind they are the most successful club in the history of the game.
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Real are not a example of how a club is to be run. They are a more successful version of City. Real fans are glory hunters of highest order.
Firing a manager whilst not giving him time and money is just stupidity. Anyone who wants that...you know who you are.
Comparing City to Real is a ridiculous complement to City. they’re nothing alike.
They are just Real wannabe's. Not just in same scale.
So winning 4 CL's in a row is not a way to run a club. No one is talking about fans here. We are talking about how to be successful. Real Madrid are ruthless and have the highest standards that is why they get rid of their managers at the right time while we are told to be happy with 7 losses in 9. This is why they are the most successful club.
Firstly, the Spanish league is nowhere near as competitive as England. Barcelona or Real not winning the league is highly usual, let alone one of them falling outside the top 4.
Secondly Lopetegui had a pre season and transfer window.
Thirdly, Solaris was never a proper permanent manager, in Spain you are not allowed to have a caretaker boss for more then 2 weeks. You have to hire a permanent manager. As soon as Zidane agreed to come back he was obviously going to be sacked
(We've lost that) Micky Phelan gets a lot of grief here, but Ferguson trusted and worked with him for years, was obviously instrumental in getting him back to assist Solskjaer, and United could have turned to other candidates, yet it is Mick who is back. He seems to get a bit of stick for not being hip or trendy enough.
But you could also say he’s outdated and stuck in the past? We don’t know for sure obviously, but just how modern is his approach, does it work in 2019.
We just need to buy:
Jadon Sancho
De Light or Koulibaly (or both)
Wan Bissaka
A very good CM
And then we'll be in a much better position, and possibly win the league.
Come on Ole!
Jadon Sancho
De Light or Koulibaly (or both)
Wan Bissaka
A very good CM
And then we'll be in a much better position, and possibly win the league.
Come on Ole!
Gonna judge him after he's had a full preseason with the players and proper backing in the transfer market.
My first choice was Marco Rose and I'll keep a close watch on how he performs at Hoffenheim.
My first choice was Marco Rose and I'll keep a close watch on how he performs at Hoffenheim.
I think, not knowing him and all, that he has the introspective depth to grasp that he faces this issue. But there will be a war inside his head. Where would he go from managing one of the biggest clubs in the world? Straight back to Molde. Forever. So it's catch 22. Actually being honest with himself about the likelihood that he will fail is the loser's option.
What do you do if you don't believe he has been properly backed in the market, and the squad struggles throughout the season? A season of football feels like a long time when not competing, you think you'll manage to stick to your plan of not judging him or is it likely you'll have a verdict by then anyways?
The way some of the fans have responded to him almost getting us back into the top 4, and blaming him for not getting us there. I think its pretty safe to say that whether or not Ole gets his new players in and the right ones out, both media and fans will go havoc on his ass and United if we don't challenge for the league immediately. The ironic part is to concede we have to calm down and build something is mistaken for "lowering expectations" and being content with losing.
It is unhealthy. There is a serious imbalance within our fanbase reminiscent of what happened to Liverpool. As far as that club go, the fact is, the moment they stopped acting panicked they scouted a manager and players patiently and trusted them to build something despite a lot of negativity surrounding them. They also supposedly have a top of the line supreme in-house dental office, which of course helps.
Is it a coincidence that after Queiroz left and Phelan become the assistant and oversaw our training sessions our football got worse?
I don't want Phelan in any role at the club personally. I'd rather we go new.
Phelan was a first team coach at United during that period and also assistant in the period when United got to two European Cup Finals. He was involved in the coaching of the first team for 13 years. Bit dismissive.
But he wasn't SAF's right-hand man until Quieroz left.
I just don't think Phelan is right for us at this moment in time personally.
I'm fully excpecting the board to back him in the summer, because the Adidas penalties will come into effect next season if we miss out on top 4 again. That's assuming Chelsea don't feck up in the final two games against Watford and Leicester.
I don't expect us to challenge next season so will be content with a top 4 finish. I at the very least expect Ole to have us playing a style that will do justice to the great club that we're. I want to see a team who show hunger and desire with and without the ball. I want Ole to show a ruthless streak in getting the deadwood out like we've seen in the past with Fergie. If he wants to play out from the back like I've read he prefers, then make the big calls and get the players out who will be of hinderance in implementing that style. Similar to what Guardiola did at City, ousting Joe Harte and upsetting some City fans and Journalists like Brennan in the process.
He's only got one chance at this job and he shouldn't take any prisoners. If he can do all that and get us playing to a good level where we look like we're progressing and moving forward, then I'll be happy with a top 4 finish. If he fails, then he has to go, because we can't afford to be sentimental.
The underlying structure at United isn’t great, but once that is fixed, wouldn’t you rather have a manager with a proven track record of developing youth players, a great footballing Philosophy, can get the best out of average players, consistent level of performance, competitiveness in cup competition, and great man management capabilities?
The current structure mainly hampers players financial and the quality of players we have bought into the club. The manager is in charge of the type of football we put out and that is mostly irrelevant of what is going on behind the scene. If you fix the structure of the club and have a manager that is not regarded as one of the best coaches in the game, nothing will change.
Pochettino at Spurs steady the ship after the failure of past managers there where they would spend as much or even more than Manchester United. But despite that, they were never as competitive as they are now. United needs someone that can help steady the ship and work with limited resources if necessary.
If you look at Pochettino history, he took over a squad in 2014 that was lacking in confidence, morale and quality, and there were a number of 'bad eggs' in their ranks too. But by dedicating time to understanding each player and installing belief, he transformed Spurs into one of the best teams in Europe. If Pochettino can transform Tottenham the way he has done with limited backing, it is scary to think what he could achieve with a club that actually backs him with a warchest and all the resources he could imagine. He was the obvious choice that it is unimaginable that we actually let him go.
Sitting back deep and hitting long balls for Rashford and Lukaku to chase is what we have been doing for the last 2 years.
I gave the previous 3 disasters time, I'm quite prepared to see where (who) we are at Christmas.
If you want to discuss with only the experts then the forum is not for you mate. Like I have already said I'm all for giving time to managers but there has to be improvement, you think there is enough improvement and I don't think there is, let's agree to disagree and see where we stand in December 2019.You got that from my post? That I'm a Mourinho fan? And despite me saying numerous times - including the very next line even - that I really can't stand the man? I was just elaborating on the point that all managers have their ups and downs and that even Mourinho wasn't a complete disaster for us - nor someone worthy of being tossed aside without being given a fair chance straight after getting the job. That even him - a man I've specifically marked out as someone I harbor no warm feelings towards whatsoever - added some positivity and good moments to our history by winning us a couple of TROPHIES (happy now?) and also guiding us to what's so far our best season post-Ferguson.
You guys can't even properly analyze the posts your replying to - even then you lack both perspective and disregard any context despite everything being elaborated on several times over even - and yet you feel yourselves qualified to slag off both players and managers alike as if you are experts on what's going on within a squad and on the field disregarding circumstances that are obvious to everyone else?
And no improvements? Really? How about you just look at the table? If there were no improvements we'd be at 52 points by now not even having a glimpse of top-four. I doubt we would have made it past PSG either.
And yeah you are worse supporters than people who take a more sober stance not getting all riled up every time something goes wrong - who focuses on doing their best (within reason of course) adding to the positive atmosphere rather than degrading the club and it's representatives every chance they get. And you're not just worse supporters because your whole approach is lacking perspective and completely moronic by the way - for reasons pointed out several times over (funny by the way how you once more disregard every argument made against your stance by the way before repeating it blindly as if nothing's happened). You see it works like this:
Man-management: Adds 0-10% to a squad's potential and also helps the coaching staff build either constructive or destructive relationships that might prove beneficial or damaging in terms of attracting others to the club.
Support: Adds another 0-10% but as it is with man management it also helps build a good or bad reputation across the footballing community making it either easier or harder for a club to attract talent.
Tactics: Adds another 0-15%.
65% of how a team performs is up to the players themselves - the rest is down to how fit they are, how well they're organized, tactical precision and to which degree they're feeling inspired. Also treating players and staff like crap could backfire massively both in the short term and in the long run as footballers aren't just drones who'll slave on even as people spit in their faces nor will they magically disappear from this realm of existence and have their memories wiped clean the moment they leave a club. No - shocking I'm aware - but they're actual human beings who interacts with each other - yes forms friendships too sometimes across clubs even those cheesy bastards - long after having been either sold off or retired. So this is what we'll focus on here - the "inspired" part and the important of being good ambassadors for a club not pissing everyone involved with it off - as that's what supporters are supposed to be doing. And if you want to know what being a good supporter means - who's the most inspiring and which ones act as the best ambassadors - I'm going to introduce you to two concepts I like to call "The King's Trial" and "Who's Your Daddy?"
They go like this - The King's Trial first:
We start by lining up in front of Cantona - all of us - before sorting ourselves into two groups. People such as yourselves standing on one side - meaning those who are quick on the draw in terms of condemning players and staff and demanding they get fired and thrown away like garbage every time they fail to deliver - and in the other group we gather supporters with a more sober approach who focuses most of their efforts on lifting everyone's spirit furthering positivity. Then we ask Cantona the following question: "Which group of supporters would you feel the most sorry about having let down - and which ones would you consider kicking straight in the face even if it meant risking your entire career throwing everything you've achieved down the drain?"
Then we have the Who's Your Daddy? approach. It's a similar concept - quite simple and based on how you get a dog to choose it's favorite parent during a divorce. What we do is we'll gather all the greatest footballing talents - players and coaches alike - in the center of the pitch - before lining up on each flank sorted into the same groups as above. We then read our forum posts out loud to them for an hour - you guys slagging everyone off demanding they get fired or telling them to resign (the way you usually do) - and us being more analytical and understanding by putting things into context and not just focusing on the bad but also balancing it out with the good telling them to cheer up hoping they'll improve before investing some faith into them (the way we prefer it). At the end of that hour we ask them "Now who's your daddy? Who's your daddy boy? Who's your daddy?" and see which group they run off to - eager eyed with tails wagging and tongues flapping about in the breeze and everything.
I'll never take anything for granted of course as to how those talents would go about choosing - some may just be masochistic enough to sprint your way - and equally far be it for me to speculate how the The King would decide as The King usually does what The King feels like answering to nobody except of course The King (though I would remind you they are old teammates and on friendly terms as far as I know) - but long story short: If you're someone Cantona would contemplate kicking - and someone footballers would run away from not towards - then you're doing it wrong and you're a shite supporter.
Edit note: Oh and by the way the team Ole built in Norway then left behind so he could manage ours is now best in it's league - eleven points ahead of second place (the ones that's been dominating Norwegian football for as long as I've lived) after having beaten them 3-0 today. So it remains to be seen what he'll achieve here but he built his previous club into great shape - again (he's been the architect behind all three of their title runs) - and also he gave up being a champion at home to try and salvage the mess we're in here so no matter what he still deserves our recognition and respect.
You can call him a "clueless manager" all you want but that's rich considering his merits and coming from someone who can't even muster enough talent to properly troll a forum
If I was someone obsessed with only debating experts I sure as hell wouldn't have wasted my time (and meager posting limit for that matter) on you now would I?
Nah all banter aside - I do believe we've reached an accord here good sir - or thereabouts at least. December sounds good to me Jesus, it’s the same thing all over the Caf. Poch, Poch, Poch.... I understand the desire for someone who has experience. Allegri, Conte... They’ve won trophies. Lots of them. Pochettino has never won a single trophy as a manager, in any league. Ole has at least won trophies with Molde. If you’re going to slag Ole and call for his head, fine. Instead of fixating on a manager that has never won a thing, why not beat the drum for a guy that has won SOMETHING.
Is it possible... that in the time that Pochettino has been managing... that he has underperformed?? He’s been in 20 some competitions (PL, League Cup, FA Cup, CL/Europa), in the last 5 seasons with the Spurs. Would it be too much to expect a single measly league cup? It’s not like he’s had a crap squad, either. Kane, Alli, Eriksen, Son... that’s at least as much attacking talent as we have, and we have an FA Cup, a League Cup and a Europa Cup during that same time period.
I’m so sick of this entire forum’s obsession with Pochettino. I almost want him hired on so the same people who wanted him so badly will be calling for him to be sacked after he steers us to 6th the first season.
Poch could do nothing with this squad. We’d be lucky to be in 7th.
Still not convinced about Pochettino. He still probably won't end up winning anything this year. I'm not sure I'd give Ole 5 years without winning anything. Maybe if we hadn't even given Ole the caretaker position that he did so well at in the beginning.... It was certainly rash to have not waited until the end of the season to give him the contract, but here we are. More evidence that our board has no idea what it's doing. It certainly would have been harsh to have hired Poch after Ole's great start. If we had waited until the end of the season and this forgettable month, I think we'd all have been more inclined to support a closer look at Poch.
What Pochettino has done with Spurs is more significant than winning a trophy. Making them competitive and transforming the landscape of the club is what any fan of a team that was never part of the elite club in football would want. If you give him half of what United spend since he came to Spurs he may have won the champions league already considering that he is in the semi finals while spending nothing on his team compared to his rivals. Money wins trophies there is no doubt about that. There are some outliers out there, but the majority of trophies winners significantly outspend their rivals.
Winning a trophy at Molde is nothing to boast about. Many managers has won trophies in weaker league and there managerial career never took of. We tried a proven winner in Mourinho and that produced some of the worst football and performances I have seen at United since we wore green and gold. If you think Pochettino can do nothing with this squad, you don’t know enough about him or what he has done at Spurs.
If his rivals continues to outspend his team by such a wide margin while pochettino continues to work his magic on players that top clubs don’t want, then it would be difficult for him to win anything. Give him a season where he outspend United and I would bet the gap between Spurs and United will be more similar to that of Liverpool and city. That is how good a manager I believe Pochettino is.
I believe if we hadn’t have rushed to hire Ole, he wouldn’t have gotten the job based on these last few result. I don’t believe it will be harsh, it is just what to expect from an interim manager. He did a good job showing how good our squad can be during the honeymoon period, but we need a manager that show that sort of form consistently. The dip in form is not down on the players, Ole has to take more credits for that then the performance we saw during honeymoon period.
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He's not doing anything special at all . He lucked into managing Spurs when every other big club is undergoing transitional period and still has won feck all.
No, but he hasn’t done enough now, has he. Bottling the 2016 league... He fits the Spurs perfectly.
Maybe don’t enter a thread that’s titled “appointing solskjaer was a mistake” and insulting them because their opinion differs from yours. If you go back nowhere in my post did I say he should be sacked I said he was the wrong appointment, which he is as it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see he’s wayyyy out of his depth here.
He just sits on the sidelines like a deer caught in headlights looking dazed and confused. He’s definitely been given a free ride as he’s ex united if it was Some random manager we brought in and these were the results they’d be getting slaughtered by everyone right now.
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