Canagel
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They're not the best ever because they flopped in CL. Come back when you achieve something in CL.
Would ‘Handily’ beat the best United side? hahaha this City team couldn't ‘handily’ beat Spurs or Liverpool this season and I can name 3 utd teams in the PL era better than this seasons Liverpool or Spurs.This is gonna be a bit "controversial" but I'm being objective here. This is a United forum after all.
This City side is better than any Man Utd side. I think if they both played, they would handily beat the best United side.
98 and 100 points in two seasons is just laughably ridiculous. This is with a league of 4 European finalists as well and holding off Champions League finalists Liverpool with 97 points in a neck to neck race.
The sides in Europe are much better now than it was back then and if Guardiola wanted, he could have played full strength at Spurs and gone for the CL.
But Liverpool were pushing them all the way and prioritized the EPL.
It wasn’t. Even less in 99.Would ‘Handily’ beat the best United side? hahaha this City team couldn't ‘handily’ beat Spurs or Liverpool this season and I can name 3 utd teams in the PL era better than this seasons Liverpool or Spurs.
Teams in Europe are certainly not better now, I’d say 10/15 years ago the standard in the champions league was a bit higher.
and your treble winning side couldn't beat sheffield wednesday and middlesbrough. Come on man, don't use this argument. It's not very logical.Would ‘Handily’ beat the best United side? hahaha this City team couldn't ‘handily’ beat Spurs or Liverpool this season and I can name 3 utd teams in the PL era better than this seasons Liverpool or Spurs.
Teams in Europe are certainly not better now, I’d say 10/15 years ago the standard in the champions league was a bit higher.
Surely that's a fairly blinkered assessment? Fergie didn't really achieve much until 1999 but his United sides from, say, 92-97 are undoubtedly among the PL's best. Similarly Wenger never really did much in Europe, but no one questions the quality of his invincibles. And Mourinho's Chelsea never got to a CL final, knocked out twice by a Liverpool side who finished 5th and 3rd domestically, and also in the last 16. But again...disputing their status as one of the all-time great PL sides would be silly.They're not the best ever because they flopped in CL. Come back when you achieve something in CL.
It’s reaching the nonsense where someone will say that Chelsea team and Di Matteo were better because they won in 2012. Champions League knockouts, Euros and World cups 50% of the time the best team doesn’t win. Maybe less but you get the point.Surely that's a fairly blinkered assessment? Fergie didn't really achieve much until 1999 but his United sides from, say, 92-97 are undoubtedly among the PL's best. Similarly Wenger never really did much in Europe, but no one questions the quality of his invincibles. And Mourinho's Chelsea never got to a CL final, knocked out twice by a Liverpool side who finished 5th and 3rd domestically, and also in the last 16. But again...disputing their status as one of the all-time great PL sides would be silly.
Agreed. They are good, in fact very very good but you can't be good or great when you couldn't even win the CL (i.e. suppose to be the best teams in Europe).They're not the best ever because they flopped in CL. Come back when you achieve something in CL.
But he says it was so that’s that.It wasn’t. Even less in 99.
Hard to argue against a side that won the German Cup in England.Bayern Munich 2012/13 was better than the current Man City team. 91 points in the Bundesliga which is only a 34 game season instead of 38 in England they won the German cup and they broke or equaled 30 records during the season. They also won the Champions league and on route to the Champions league title they beat Juve 0-4 on AGG and Barcelona 7-0 AGG.
So let me get this straight. Pep got hired by Man City to win the PL again and again with some FA Cups and some Carling Cups thrown in. All the while failing in the most watched and most prestigious club competition in the World? So Pep got hired to watch Barcalona and Madrid dominate the La Liga AND win the Champions League, to play in Final games that's watched by over 300 Million+ Fans globally, all the while Pep is playing for the Carling Cup against Bolton or something? But it's all good as long as he wins some PL Titles??Who told you that? the newspapers? He rested players in the CL games specifically to play his strongest in the EPL. He persistently has said his objective is to win the EPL over the CL.
Look at Pep's face as Tottenham knocked him out. Take a look at his emotions. That's the face of someone that died inside. He absolutely wanted to win the CL because there's no club trophy bigger. He just couldn't do it due to some tactical errors. Let's not try to spin this into 'Pep didn't care' when he simply got outplayed due to a variety of factors(bad luck included). Just wait and see. If Pep fails badly in the CL for another 3 seasons, he's gone.From his team selections, it's obvious what the priority was. He would have rested everyone for the CL with the point gap Liverpool had over City a while ago, if his number 1 objective was the CL.
There is no evidence whatsoever to back this up. There are 4 English teams in the European finals this season. The strength of the prem is easily better than it was in 99 for example. Besides United, how did English teams fare in Europe back then, if they were so strong? Leeds, West Ham and Villa finished in the top 6 in 99. Would you say theyre better than todays Spurs, Arsenal and United?Behind the two United teams but better than the Invincibles and Chelsea, just. Come back to me when they’ve won the treble and been in consecutive champions league finals.
The premier league was stronger in the late nineties & noughties compared to now. Whilst I think this Man City would’ve won titles, there’s absolutely no chance they and Liverpool would’ve been able to achieve their incredible points tallies during that time. Teams who finished around 15th/16th back then would finish in the top 10 in the league now, that’s how much the level of the bottom half of the premier league has dropped.
No. It was a long term strategy by the owners. He got hired to implement a specific playing style and improve the team for the long term. The owners specifically stated that it was a long term plan and honestly it looks like it's coming to fruition.So let me get this straight. Pep got hired by Man City to win the PL again and again with some FA Cups and some Carling Cups thrown in. All the while failing in the most watched and most prestigious club competition in the World? So Pep got hired to watch Barcalona and Madrid dominate the La Liga AND win the Champions League, to play in Final games that's watched by over 300 Million+ Fans globally, all the while Pep is playing for the Carling Cup against Bolton or something? But it's all good as long as he wins some PL Titles??
No, let's not make it our goal to beat European Giants like Juventus and Barca and Madrid and Bayern. Let's instead make it our goal to continue to farm Stoke Citys and Fulhams on cold rainy Wednesday nights in England. I'm sure farming Fulhams and Derby Counties for the next decade is FAR more prestigious and important than winning the Champions League against historic giants.
Fact is, when there were rules Chelsea abided by them while City have cooked their books. Personally, i'm against FFP. No person or organization should have any right to say how much an individual or business should be allowed to spend. If a club ends up being made bankrupt, then that's their fault and their job to sort out and rebuild.That's slightly disingenuous though, isn't it. The difference between City and Chelsea's spending is that Chelsea's spending occurred prior to UEFA FFP, while City's occurred during UEFA FFP. Chelsea didn't break any rules on spending because there were no rules in place.
And of course, once Roman was done with his "open and fair" spending, he was then one of the prime movers in the design and implementation of UEFA FFP, which miraculously helped to lift the drawbridge up on any other club spending in the same way that he had. "It's mainly the owners that asked us to do something. Roman Abramovich, Silvio Berlusconi at AC Milan and Massimo Moratti at Inter," Platini said. "They do not want to fork out any more...I have met with Abramovich, who is a football person and passionate about the game. He said that we must do something about this."
There may well be a moral high-ground in all of this. I'm not sure Chelsea are sitting on it though.
No. It was a long term strategy by the owners. He got hired to implement a specific playing style and improve the team for the long term. The owners specifically stated that it was a long term plan and honestly it looks like it's coming to fruition.
You should also know about "City Football Group" and their idea of buying up a bunch of clubs to implement the principle of "the City Way" using Guardiola's philosophy.
They're trying to build a dynasty with improvements each year and this is what is happening. I think they think they will eventually win the CL.
Also, Pellegrini and the rest did actually get fired when they didn't win the PL. We can all make up things and go by rumors but these were the actual objectives given to Pep before it all started.
Like Guardiola has said countless times, he actually didn't get hired to win the CL and his actions showed that he wasn't lying when he prioritized winning the PL over Liverpool by resting players in the CL.
left out one of these......... , edited now.Hard to argue against a side that won the German Cup in England.
I'm not sure what this has to do with my original post. If he wanted the CL above the PL he wouldn't have rested Sane and De Bruyne at WHL. It's really simple.Look at Pep's face as Tottenham knocked him out. Take a look at his emotions. That's the face of someone that died inside. He absolutely wanted to win the CL because there's no club trophy bigger. He just couldn't do it due to some tactical errors. Let's not try to spin this into 'Pep didn't care' when he simply got outplayed due to a variety of factors(bad luck included). Just wait and see. If Pep fails badly in the CL for another 3 seasons, he's gone.
There’s no evidence to back up the opposing argument either, it’s all down to opinion.There is no evidence whatsoever to back this up. There are 4 English teams in the European finals this season. The strength of the prem is easily better than it was in 99 for example. Besides United, how did English teams fare in Europe back then, if they were so strong? Leeds, West Ham and Villa finished in the top 6 in 99. Would you say theyre better than todays Spurs, Arsenal and United?
Just out of curiosity, how many points do you think that this City team would get in that 99 league season?
But by saying this Man City side would ‘handily’ beat any United side you started this illogical argument?and your treble winning side couldn't beat sheffield wednesday and middlesbrough. Come on man, don't use this argument. It's not very logical.
And City did actually beat both Spurs and Liverpool this season.
It's a really subjective question and nothing can be proven but this City side got 98 points and 100 points in a much tougher league than the ones United had. I believe that they are a much better side than any United.
I don't support either of those sides btw.
The club, via Khaldoon or Guardiola (or any previous managers) have never stated that winning the Champions League is the club’s overriding, number 1 priority. Does that mean winning the Champions League is not part of the long term plan/goals? No, of course not. City want to win the Champions League, and wanted to win it this year, but it’s not our only goal. Hence the sensible juggling of squad resources in the Spurs tie. Sadly it didn’t work out this year. The Champions League is a tough competition to win, and only one team can win it. I think we’ve probably been good enough to win it these past two seasons, but we haven’t quite performed as we needed to in certain games and also didn’t have the rub of the green on occasions, so we went out. That’s knock-out cup football for you.Winning the CL is a large part of 'City Football Group's' 'long term plan'. He's currently failing at it. The City 'football' way is the funniest thing I ever heard. What 'football way'. We are talking about City like we are talking about Barca now? I see some massive goalpost moving by City fans here. In America we have a word call 'Homer'. There's a difference between being a City fan and a City 'homer'(a lot of the posters on this site).
I give a example of this. City fans openly acknowledged that we failed to win the CL and that should rightfully count against us if we are to be compared to the great United teams of the past. City 'homers' create intricate excuses and romantic notions of 'footballing ways' 'style over trophies' 'english domestic dominance' all of which simply equate to 'we failed at the CL so badly but let's just ignore it and talk about our x points out of x games'.
City homers also happen to gush about City's 'incredible points total' and how legendary it is yet little Liverpool was only ONE POINT BEHIND this legendary point total. I guess they must be a legendary side too. But wait, for Liverpool it's luck... If what some City homers are saying about Pep is true. Which is he's on purposely making the CL secondary and actively using his incredible resources to just win the PL? This further illustrates how far behind this squad is compare to United's 99 and 08. Since Ferguson was actively trying to go all out for the treble(THE REAL TREBLE) during those seasons. If Ferguson ONLY cared about the PL? He would have amassed 100 points in 08.
Winning the CL is a large part of 'City Football Group's' 'long term plan'. He's currently failing at it. The City 'football' way is the funniest thing I ever heard. What 'football way'. We are talking about City like we are talking about Barca now? I see some massive goalpost moving by City fans here. In America we have a word call 'Homer'. There's a difference between being a City fan and a City 'homer'(a lot of the posters on this site).
I give a example of this. City fans openly acknowledged that we failed to win the CL and that should rightfully count against us if we are to be compared to the great United teams of the past. City 'homers' create intricate excuses and romantic notions of 'footballing ways' 'style over trophies' 'english domestic dominance' all of which simply equate to 'we failed at the CL so badly but let's just ignore it and talk about our x points out of x games'.
City homers also happen to gush about City's 'incredible points total' and how legendary it is yet little Liverpool was only ONE POINT BEHIND this legendary point total. I guess they must be a legendary side too. But wait, for Liverpool it's luck... If what some City homers are saying about Pep is true. Which is he's on purposely making the CL secondary and actively using his incredible resources to just win the PL? This further illustrates how far behind this squad is compare to United's 99 and 08. Since Ferguson was actively trying to go all out for the treble(THE REAL TREBLE) during those seasons. If Ferguson ONLY cared about the PL? He would have amassed 100 points in 08.
Do you mean hypothetical? I think you use the term illogical wrongly there. By stating that it can't be proven is just factual.But by saying this Man City side would ‘handily’ beat any United side you started this illogical argument?
Yea they beat them, but not ‘handily’ those games could’ve gone either way.
I strongly disagree that the league is tougher now. The premier league peaked between 2005 and 2010 in terms of depth of quality in the league, teams lower down the table back then were good enough to compete in the Uefa Cup, the lower table teams could not compete in the Europa League now. For example, Middlesbrough in 2006 reached the Uefa Cup final but finished 14th in the league, could Bournemouth who finished 14th this season even compete in the Europa League let alone reach a final.
Sides try. Leicester did. They're just a great defensive side.There is no doubt City are an impressive side/squad. I would have doubts about them defensively. I think sides are afraid to have a go at them for fear of being caught on the counter. De Bruyne, Silva B, Silva.D, Aguero, Sterling and Sane are players of the highest calibre.
I have no idea why you would think the PL is tougher now than it was in the late 90's & 00's. Leicester won the PL in 15/16. Chelsea set the record for season PL wins in 16/17. City broke this record in 17/18 & have scored over 200 league goals in 2 seasons. This season Spurs ended the season with 13 losses & still achieved 4th place. This shows how poor the PL has been in the last few years.It's a really subjective question and nothing can be proven but this City side got 98 points and 100 points in a much tougher league than the ones United had. I believe that they are a much better side than any United.
The fact that a struggling Championship side give City a better game than the large majority of PL teams says alot. Many PL managers only game plans seem to be to park the bus. This inevitably leads to them being camped inside their own half where they invariably make a mistake & concede. It is a tactic that has a very low percentage chance of working. It's unfathomable why so many managers persist with it.I think some of the teams in PL make them look good. They just go into the game with 10 men behind their own goal and invite City to attack. They won't even venture out for counter etc. When they are push they will lose or draw more.
United in 2008 would paste this City side.....and your treble winning side couldn't beat sheffield wednesday and middlesbrough. Come on man, don't use this argument. It's not very logical.
And City did actually beat both Spurs and Liverpool this season.
It's a really subjective question and nothing can be proven but this City side got 98 points and 100 points in a much tougher league than the ones United had. I believe that they are a much better side than any United.
I don't support either of those sides btw.
You’ve got to admire his persistence.The club, via Khaldoon or Guardiola (or any previous managers) have never stated that winning the Champions League is the club’s overriding, number 1 priority. Does that mean winning the Champions League is not part of the long term plan/goals? No, of course not. City want to win the Champions League, and wanted to win it this year, but it’s not our only goal. Hence the sensible juggling of squad resources in the Spurs tie. Sadly it didn’t work out this year. The Champions League is a tough competition to win, and only one team can win it. I think we’ve probably been good enough to win it these past two seasons, but we haven’t quite performed as we needed to in certain games and also didn’t have the rub of the green on occasions, so we went out. That’s knock-out cup football for you.
The club have consistently stated, as I believe they should, that the Premier League is the bread and butter, and the Champions League would be a fantastic bonus on top of that. Ask Khaldoon if he thinks Guardiola is currently failing, and I can assure you he would say no. I’d recommend you watch any of Khaldoon’s post-season interviews on the City website, as well as the one that will be published next week. That might help you understand the club’s vision/plan.
Your comments about “farming” Fulhams, Stoke City’s, and Derby Countys are arrogant and bordering on offensive. They suggest you have no understanding of the culture of English football and the importance of the domestic league. And yes, I’d say it’s perfectly reasonable for City fans to “gush” about our points totals in both 2018 and 2019. They are the highest points totals ever achieved in the English top division. It seems very strange for you, as a purported City fan, to want to mock or belittle our achievements over the past two seasons.
That's just it, they spent the best part of a billion pounds in seven years and UEFA are keen to punish them for breaking spending rules. How can it still be called a sport? It's chequebook madness.This is a side that is setting new standards. The fact that they haven't delivered in the Champion League is bizarre.
Having said that, the whole ethos of City is toxic, anti-football and anti-sport. I have no doubt that they cheat (in respect of FFP), and that football generally would be better if they were held to account for it. Comparisons between City, for whom money is no object, and the United treble side are immaterial. Kompany said it was a matter of time before City achieved the quadruple: if that's true, then god help us - sport is dead.
I think you are in denial, I can not take your opinion on football seriously. In a united forum but not a united fan, weird behaviour.It's a long term plan like they said countless times. You're laughing and behaving like if I invented it. I'm just relaying what they stated their philosophy is and what their objectives were. They never told Guardiola he must win the CL this season. He said that many times and it's like you're making up something in your head to help ease the pain. I don't get it's so hard for you to understand.
I don't support City but I find how the club is run deserves some credit. Yes they pushed a lot of money but the management of the club is good.
Do you mean hypothetical? I think you use the term illogical wrongly there. By stating that it can't be proven is just factual.
If you don't think the league is tougher now then you are in denial.
There are 4 European Finalists in all European competitions. The EPL in 2005-2010 couldn't possibly do that. England's 2nd placed team has knocked out Spain's Champions and German champions and Italy's 2nd best. England's 5th best knocked out Italy's 2nd best. Sorry but the EPL in 2005-2010 couldn't possibly be better than now in terms of quality and strength.
You are just using Middlesbrough to make a point. This is a one off. The finals in all european competitions are taken up by english teams and none of them are even the PL winners. There are two teams that finished 98 and 97 points. Liverpool just beat Messi's Barcelona 4-0. You seriously have to be in denial.
My comments about Fulham and Stoke City was stupid. But you only found it offensive because they are English clubs. Spaniards will also find it offensive over the countless comments made by non Spaniards regarding Messi/Ronaldo farming what we consider 'random nameless Spanish sides'. Same thing with Italians finding it offensive over non Italians mocking bottom tier teams being destroyed by Juventus. This further illustrate my point. To be truly known as a European Giant, you have to beat the European Giants of the CL. To the English public, teams like Derby County, Reading, Fulham and so forth have ingrained fanbases and history. To the rest of the World, they are just teams there to be farmed by the PL top dogs.The club, via Khaldoon or Guardiola (or any previous managers) have never stated that winning the Champions League is the club’s overriding, number 1 priority. Does that mean winning the Champions League is not part of the long term plan/goals? No, of course not. City want to win the Champions League, and wanted to win it this year, but it’s not our only goal. Hence the sensible juggling of squad resources in the Spurs tie. Sadly it didn’t work out this year. The Champions League is a tough competition to win, and only one team can win it. I think we’ve probably been good enough to win it these past two seasons, but we haven’t quite performed as we needed to in certain games and also didn’t have the rub of the green on occasions, so we went out. That’s knock-out cup football for you.
The club have consistently stated, as I believe they should, that the Premier League is the bread and butter, and the Champions League would be a fantastic bonus on top of that. Ask Khaldoon if he thinks Guardiola is currently failing, and I can assure you he would say no. I’d recommend you watch any of Khaldoon’s post-season interviews on the City website, as well as the one that will be published next week. That might help you understand the club’s vision/plan.
Your comments about “farming” Fulhams, Stoke City’s, and Derby Countys are arrogant and bordering on offensive. They suggest you have no understanding of the culture of English football and the importance of the domestic league. And yes, I’d say it’s perfectly reasonable for City fans to “gush” about our points totals in both 2018 and 2019. They are the highest points totals ever achieved in the English top division. It seems very strange for you, as a purported City fan, to want to mock or belittle our achievements over the past two seasons.