What did the Mourinho era fix?

[Robbie Boy]

As I said in this thread I’m all for fair analysis. Yes, there are persons who are overzealous in their defense of Mourinho but there are also many at the opposite end of that spectrum who seem to ‘hate’ him and cannot have a rational conversation about him. Are you telling me that you are unaware that there are persons here who wanted United to lose because of Mourinho?

Also I think that you are using the term acolyte in the way you ask that ‘hate’ not be used ‘as way to try dismiss one side of an argument’.

There were many against his appointment and that attitude carried over into his time as manager. Some people never gave him a chance because he didn't have the ‘United DNA’. I don’t want to be branded as an acolyte but, in a way, I think the board never gave him a chance. They hired him but didn't seem to want what he was known for. And he wasn't able to perform to a satisfactory level, so was fired.

A lot of blame now exists that can be shared by all parties involved. The issue, I guess, is who gets the biggest share? Which is now all academic with regards to Mourinho. United really need to learn from this and move on.

Of course plenty were opposed to his appointment however, I feel this was still a very small minority that shared this assertion. My view of it was that the majority just wanted LvG gone as they felt the football was utterly tumescent and we were going nowhere under him. Even some of Mourinho’s critics seemed happy to have a fresh start and acknowledged that although the football may be somewhat pragmatic, it would be better than under LvG and his record of winning of spoke for itself. Me personally, I was just delighted and I felt Jose would have us back dining at the top table with the big boys.

What transpired thereafter, after what was a somewhat promising start, unfortunately changed most peoples opinions. I stuck with him right up until the third season even if the signs of a collapse were there in the second half of his second season.

Anyhow, my issue is with the acolytes and no one else. There were some well thought out defenses of Jose and that was fair game. However, the select few that monopolised every thread banding around the word hater like a badge of honour are the ones I find utterly unforgivable. They blamed everyone bar Mourinho while the sane ones blamed Mourinho and everyone else collectively. And yes, my acolytes retort began after the constant hater rhetoric, I won’t deny that. However, as you used hate in a previous post justifies why I still use it.

 

[Jojo <3 Mou]

Anyhow, my issue is with the acolytes and no one else. There were some well thought out defenses of Jose and that was fair game. However, the select few that monopolised every thread banding around the word hater like a badge of honour are the ones I find utterly unforgivable. They blamed everyone bar Mourinho while the sane ones blamed Mourinho and everyone else collectively. And yes, my acolytes retort began after the constant hater rhetoric, I won’t deny that. However, as you used hate in a previous post justifies why I still use it.

And I feel justified in using the word hate. When I encounter some comments about Mournho on this site, I get really uncomfortable. They feel personal and go way beyond dislike or upset or at a poor season... it feels like hate.

We probably have to just accept that we cant govern peoples feelings and that all are entitled to one.....even if we think that their opinion is awful and way of. And it does make for lively if somewhat repetitive discussions.

 

[Wumminator]

How can people not hate Mourinho? He was disrespectful to the club and the history of the club while simultaneously playing abysmal football. How anyone can remain objective about the cretin is mental,

 

[Champagne Football]

He proved here that he's yesterday's man. He keeps dropping hints about coming back to work soon. Trying to drum up interest and stay relevant when no one cares for him anymore.

Glasgow Celtic is his level now as a manager. I'd be stunned if a club better than Celtic offered him a job. Perhaps a club in Turkey

 

[Robbie Boy]

And I feel justified in using the word hate. When I encounter some comments about Mournho on this site, I get really uncomfortable. They feel personal and go way beyond dislike or upset or at a poor season... it feels like hate.

We probably have to just accept that we cant govern peoples feelings and that all are entitled to one.....even if we think that their opinion is awful and way of. And it does make for lively if somewhat repetitive discussions.

Well that was my point, for as long as the ‘hater’ rhetoric exists, people will counteract that with their own terms for the pro-Mourinho brigade. I just find it hard to fathom that some still refuse to attribute any blame to the man whatsoever. It’s irrational bias.

 

[Kostov]

I highly doubt another managers failure will change peoples opinion on Jose. Bar the first few months of last season we played shit football rest of that season (that Sevilla game ) and even this season all we did was lump it to fellaini/Lukaku and defend from start vs lower teams (We got fecked by derby, had we created more chances and missed then fair enough but we didn't and they dominated us). I don't blame Jose for everything but surely a manager doesn't need another 200 mil to not play like cowards vs lower teams despite already spending nearly 400 mil and that sanchez deal.

Why not? 6 months ago this team was good enough to compete with city and pool, according to some on here. Now after Ole’s honeymoon is over we are all accepting that it’s not the case.

How Jose’s team played was well documented for everyone to see, even though some want to make it believe we never played a good game under Jose. We spent feck load with Jose and before Jose. Who’s spending the money and how it’s not only on the manager. There’s one constant through it all and it’s not Mourinho.

I didn’t enjoy his football neither but I will a give credit where it’s due. Let’s see where we end up with Ole after spending bucket loads of money this summer, then we will see what will the general opinion be.

 

[fps]

The time to get Mourinho in was 2013 as SAF's successor. They missed the boat, and when Jose tried to further mould the team into a functional ageing first 11 he was basically told to do one.

 

[AJ10]

Why not? 6 months ago this team was good enough to compete with city and pool, according to some on here. Now after Ole’s honeymoon is over we are all accepting that it’s not the case.

How Jose’s team played was well documented for everyone to see, even though some want to make it believe we never played a good game under Jose. We spent feck load with Jose and before Jose. Who’s spending the money and how it’s not only on the manager. There’s one constant through it all and it’s not Mourinho.

I didn’t enjoy his football neither but I will a give credit where it’s due. Let’s see where we end up with Ole after spending bucket loads of money this summer, then we will see what will the general opinion be.

You think another managers failure erases the BS put on by you know that WC manager whose best tactic was to lump it to the big man up front and defending from the start vs lower teams? Funny how everyone ignores this.

We don't have a squad good enough to compete with city/pool and anyone saying that needs their heads examined. But this isn't a plus for Jose as he's the one who bought most of these players and kept the ones who were already here (unless we're blaming someone else for this). I've never said its all Jose's fault (if you actually read my post) but its his fault for ignoring positions that needed to be filled (4 windows/400 mil+ Sanchez deal)/pathetic and cowardly tactics vs lower teams/Players having no clue on how to play attacking football/buying potential (twice) rather than a proven CB which we needed/Choosing to play Jones and Smalling/ Buying a striker for 90 mil whose first touch is worse than Sunday league players/Playing Valencia and Young as FB's/Creating Toxic atmosphere... Some of his faults.

Once again if you had read my post I did say we played good for first few months but if you're ignoring that then that's your problem.

Who knows where we'll end up next season but we won't play like cowards vs lower teams, thats for sure. Even if we don't do well overall that still doesn't erase Jose's failure.

 

[MackRobinson]

How can people not hate Mourinho? He was disrespectful to the club and the history of the club while simultaneously playing abysmal football. How anyone can remain objective about the cretin is mental,

Some people are just so enamored with his persona, it causes them to constantly look for scapegoats (Pogba, Woodward, Martial, the scouts, etc) whenever he fails or talks rubbish. It's weird seeing this type of love for a manager but it's common for players (Messi, Ronaldo).

To answer the question, there was one good outcome due to Mourinho. He is/was United's Roy Hodgson. Not in terms ability or achievements, but in terms of how pragmatic and unflattering the style of football was that I don't think either club will ever hire pragmatic, defense-first managers like these in a very, very long time. That's certainly a positive.

 

[AJ10]

How can people not hate Mourinho? He was disrespectful to the club and the history of the club while simultaneously playing abysmal football. How anyone can remain objective about the cretin is mental,

He's a very good salesman.

 

[hn4manunited]

Exposed Woodward and the board.

I wouldn’t call it an era. Just during his tenure, the biggest win for us fans who can see it is the exposing of how bad the state of this club is in. It’s all the way from the players, the coaching staff, nutritionist, physical conditioning, recruitment, scouting, everyone of Ed’s team who negotiates new contracts and contract extensions, direction of club and what we’re building towards or lack there of.

If the tweets are to be believed, we are doing the same thing with players we’ve been linked with as of this moment.

What was the Einstein saying?

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

 

[Keefy18]

GK - De Gea was in the team of the year twice under Mourinho, was the best GK last year. Has had challenges this year. He is 3 years older....

FB - Aging is real, Valencia is old. Is that on Mourinho? Luke Shaw has finally been fit long enough to show good consistency.

CB - Lindelof looks promising, Bailly has injury issues. Smalling and Jones remain permanent fixtures. Is that on Mourinho? We dont know because we dont know who makes these decisions. Note the new contract under OGS.

CM - United cannot lose financially on ogba. Fred has had a 1 year transition, why is everyone ready to write him off. Matic looks like he shouldnt be a starter anymore. Guess what, clubs sometimes get signings wrong...

Attack - United scored the most goal since SAF under Mourinho. Lukaku is a goal scorer who may or may not fit the system that OGS uses. Sanchez seems to be a costly mistake. Again, who made this decision? IDK

Performance : Inherited a 5th place team. Carried them to 2nd. Left a 6th place team. Won 2 or 3 trophies.

Football is constantly changing. A year ago it seemed as if we need 3 or 4 signings to challenge. Mourinho at United was ultimately not a success but do not attempt to rewrite history.

Also, in that vein, how did van Gaal improve United?

GK - De Gea was worked more often under Jose than LVG. Now this season De Gea is at his absolute worst and we'd be best off selling him ASAP rather than letting him leave for free next summer.

FB - He inherited 2 very good fullbacks in Valencia & Shaw, the latter was in great form pre leg break but has never been quite the same since.

CB - LVG gave us our best post Ferguson CB pairing in Smalling & Blind. The genius that Jose is gradualy froze out Blind then sold him? Looking at him now at Ajax it looks like one of the most idiotic bits of transfer sales we've done in many years. Invested in permacrocked Bailly as well!

CM - Monstrous sums of money spent on CM's and Pogba is the most hated player probably in the history of the club, although I find it grossly unfair on him. Matic & Fred add another nearly €100m investment to the CM. The former is finished already and needs replacing and question marks remain over Fred. You could be right in that he needs a season to settle, but we'll have to wait n see.

The CM was LVG's downfall for me, I believe that was why we retained possession so much and our play was woefully boring.

Attack - Rashford & Martial were 2 of Europes brightest prospects in 2016. Fast Forward 3 years, both have massive ego's and they've not been developed at all by Jose.

Jose gave us a season with Zlatan who whilst our best performing CF, also missed so many chances in that season. Lukaku is yet another expensive waste and been absolutely dreadful for us.

LVG took over a team that finished 7th, got to 4th and finished 5th with an FA Cup.

Jose left us 6th, 11 pts from 4th in December last after spending double what LVG done and done less work with the squad.

 

[Jojo <3 Mou]

spending double what LVG done.

So according to Transfermarket, van Gaal spent £316,215,000 on 12 players vs Mourinhos £419,490,000 on 10. Not exactly twice as much.

All your other points are subjective. I dont think that his appointment made any lasting positive changes.

 

[Kostov]

You think another managers failure erases the BS put on by you know that WC manager whose best tactic was to lump it to the big man up front and defending from the start vs lower teams? Funny how everyone ignores this.

We don't have a squad good enough to compete with city/pool and anyone saying that needs their heads examined. But this isn't a plus for Jose as he's the one who bought most of these players and kept the ones who were already here (unless we're blaming someone else for this). I've never said its all Jose's fault (if you actually read my post) but its his fault for ignoring positions that needed to be filled (4 windows/400 mil+ Sanchez deal)/pathetic and cowardly tactics vs lower teams/Players having no clue on how to play attacking football/buying potential (twice) rather than a proven CB which we needed/Choosing to play Jones and Smalling/ Buying a striker for 90 mil whose first touch is worse than Sunday league players/Playing Valencia and Young as FB's/Creating Toxic atmosphere... Some of his faults.

Once again if you had read my post I did say we played good for first few months but if you're ignoring that then that's your problem.

Who knows where we'll end up next season but we won't play like cowards vs lower teams, thats for sure. Even if we don't do well overall that still doesn't erase Jose's failure.

Look I'm not gonna defend Mourinho over his playing style. Yes he reverted to that type of play and Barcelona and Pep worshipers on here blew the horns like it's a fecking crime. That is not his style of play for a manager who has won two CLs with teams like Porto and Inter. He is a pragmatist and too careful for my liking but you are the type of guy that will only highlight the worst parts while mop up the better ones.

He is the one that bought most of these players? I remember him buying 10 players, two of which were on a free and 1 was swap for another. He didn't buy the majority of the players, heck we don't even know who buys players at the club. I've actually never said that you said it's all Jose's fault (if you actually read my post), never have I said that he was perfect neither.

Which ones of those transfer decisions do you atribute to him only? The worst ones? Based on what? Because it suits you agenda? It was Jose's fault that some decided to give that enormous contract to Alexis? Yeah we don't know how to play attacking football, yet under him we scored the most goals in a season post Fergie. Creating toxic atmosphere takes more than one genius. Who created this shit show at the end of the season? Mourinho again?

Once again if you read my post I never said half the things you implied. We played good games through out his tenure not only the first few months, it was still not goo enough and not what I wanted, but it was what it was.

Nobody knows how we will play next season, but this end of the season did expose the cowards we have playing in this shirt. We failed to beat two relegated teams in the most embarrassing fashion, and we were no better than under Mourinho at his worst.

 

[davidmichael]

What did the Mourinho era fix you ask ? My insomnia.

 

[AJ10]

Look I'm not gonna defend Mourinho over his playing style. Yes he reverted to that type of play and Barcelona and Pep worshipers on here blew the horns like it's a fecking crime. That is not his style of play for a manager who has won two CLs with teams like Porto and Inter. He is a pragmatist and too careful for my liking but you are the type of guy that will only highlight the worst parts while mop up the better ones.

He is the one that bought most of these players? I remember him buying 10 players, two of which were on a free and 1 was swap for another. He didn't buy the majority of the players, heck we don't even know who buys players at the club. I've actually never said that you said it's all Jose's fault (if you actually read my post), never have I said that he was perfect neither.

Which ones of those transfer decisions do you atribute to him only? The worst ones? Based on what? Because it suits you agenda? It was Jose's fault that some decided to give that enormous contract to Alexis? Yeah we don't know how to play attacking football, yet under him we scored the most goals in a season post Fergie. Creating toxic atmosphere takes more than one genius. Who created this shit show at the end of the season? Mourinho again?

Once again if you read my post I never said half the things you implied. We played good games through out his tenure not only the first few months, it was still not goo enough and not what I wanted, but it was what it was.

Nobody knows how we will play next season, but this end of the season did expose the cowards we have playing in this shirt. We failed to beat two relegated teams in the most embarrassing fashion, and we were no better than under Mourinho at his worst.

A WC manager got his side to play like cowards vs lower teams, Talked shit about Us while managing here (you know, the club you support),Threw every man and his dog under the bus, hell he even threw our youth players under the bus, not sure there's much good left to say. I support man utd not jose "me,me,me,me" Mourinho.

10 players, I would classify that as most of the players.

"Who’s spending the money and how it’s not only on the manager. There’s one constant through it all and it’s not Mourinho." and I replied saying not blaming Jose for everything.

Unless you're blaming someone else for bringing in players then yes Jose is to be blamed. Suits my agenda? Like pointing out his transfers have been shit apart from Ibra and Victor. The rest have been absolutely shit but yeah I have a agenda. Why would I blame Jose for what was offered to Sanchez but we did get him by swapping Mkh Who was another shit signing by jose unless you're telling me Jose didn't want both MKH and sanchez. Who buys a player for 90 mil whose first touch is a long pass. but yeah it suits my agenda for pointing out how shit jose was for united while dealing with facts...........Agenda,Agenda,Agenda.

Its almost like Jose spent 400 mil on players> we played like cowards vs lower teams> looked clueless while attacking/defending>His signings were duds. You know what, I am only talking about points which suits my agenda. So lets talk about the good parts > Winning EL was a great achievement (how did he do it while facing the mighty...... What bravery for a WC manager to win a second rate European trophy), Community shield?, city game, Ibra coming here, Jose vs Conte, Him showing his three fingers, Those comments about united after sevilla game (I mean, united fans all around the world must hate anyone who talks shit about their beloved club ).............Trying to be fair here.

Of course we have shit players playing for us for which Jose is part responsible. He kept them and bought most (10 is most).

No better than jose at his worst? Hmmmmmm

- Getting Destroyed by Bristol City?
- You mean like not loosing to Huddersfield, last season?
- That sevilla game were we didn't even create anything for the first 70 mins when we needed goals but just defended.
- Derby, only got a draw after lumping it to fellani vs a championship team who outplayed us the entire game.
- Loosing to West Brom who were relegated?


These were from the top of my head, Maybe...... you're right I must have a agenda against a WC manager who made us so shit despite having a fortune to spend.

 

[Kostov]

A WC manager got his side to play like cowards vs lower teams, Talked shit about Us while managing here (you know, the club you support),Threw every man and his dog under the bus, hell he even threw our youth players under the bus, not sure there's much good left to say. I support man utd not jose "me,me,me,me" Mourinho.

A WC manager got this team to 2nd place and won a European cup a year before. That's a fact. These players have been playing like cowards for 6 years running. He talked shit about us? About how snowflake? About Woodward and the Glazers? Against underperforming bunch of overpaid shit? Or stated the obvious about a once a great club being run like amateurs? I also support Manchester United but I can acknowlegde when someone has done something right. You just spout bullshit and can't see shit through your hateful agenda.

10 players, I would classify that as most of the players.

"Who’s spending the money and how it’s not only on the manager. There’s one constant through it all and it’s not Mourinho." and I replied saying not blaming Jose for everything.

Well 10 bought and 1 swapped for Alexis, it makes 9 out of a squad of 25 is not most of the players Einstein. Compare that to how many Pep has bought.

Unless you're blaming someone else for bringing in players then yes Jose is to be blame-d. Suits my agenda? Like pointing out his transfers have been shit apart from Ibra and Victor. The rest have been absolutely shit but yeah I have a agenda. Why would I blame Jose for what was offered to Sanchez but we did get him by swapping Mkh Who was another shit signing by jose unless you're telling me Jose didn't want both MKH and sanchez. Who buys a player for 90 mil whose first touch is a long pass. but yeah it suits my agenda for pointing out how shit jose was for united while dealing with facts...........Agenda,Agenda,Agenda.

You are a frustrated chap aren't you? Of course I do blame others for bringing in players along with Jose. Like I don't attribute the good signing on him solely, but they are so few and in between. The transfers in his time here have been better then previous imo. We were spending shit load of money even before him, and who's fault is that? LVG? Moyes? Go figure it out.

Mkhitaryan was shit yet helped us winning the Europa League in his first season, and was bought for a position that was neglected for 3 years. Alexis we all wanted I'm sure Jose wanted as well. Don't tell me you didn't want Alexis for Mkhi in a straight swap, since it's pure bullshit. Manchester United bought Lukaku for 75m, and sent Rooney the other way, who was on enormous wages, in a market Alvaro Morata was worth 65m. Currently the best striker we have as it stands which is still saying something.

You are so fecking tiresome with that repeating of words, are you 12?

Its almost like Jose spent 400 mil on players> we played like cowards vs lower teams> looked clueless while attacking/defending>His signings were duds. You know what, I am only talking about points which suits my agenda. So lets talk about the good parts > Winning EL was a great achievement (how did he do it while facing the mighty...... What bravery for a WC manager to win a second rate European trophy), Community shield?, city game, Ibra coming here, Jose vs Conte, Him showing his three fingers, Those comments about united after sevilla game (I mean, united fans all around the world must hate anyone who talks shit about their beloved club ).............Trying to be fair here.

Well you can always talk about Moyes, that Fulham game with 1000 crosses. The great era of LVG and finishing 4th and killing the life of all the footballing world? Or the era of Angel Di Maria and Rojo? You must have loved that.

Of course we have shit players playing for us for which Jose is part responsible. He kept them and bought most (10 is most).

Learn a bit of math, or common sense will you?

No better than jose at his worst? Hmmmmmm

- Getting Destroyed by Bristol City?
- You mean like not loosing to Huddersfield, last season?
- That sevilla game were we didn't even create anything for the first 70 mins when we needed goals but just defended.
- Derby, only got a draw after lumping it to fellani vs a championship team who outplayed us the entire game.
- Loosing to West Brom who were relegated?


These were from the top of my head, Maybe...... you're right I must have a agenda against a WC manager who made us so shit despite having a fortune to spend.

Yeah you must have loved winning 2 games out of 12 did you? That's rock bottom pal. Consider we were outplayed in those 2 games as well but yeah it was great.

And don't bother replying. I have no intention of defending Jose Mourinho against a someone who can't keep a mature debate.

 

[MackRobinson]

A WC manager got this team to 2nd place and won a European cup a year before. That's a fact. These players have been playing like cowards for 6 years running. He talked shit about us? About how snowflake? About Woodward and the Glazers? Against underperforming bunch of overpaid shit? Or stated the obvious about a once a great club being run like amateurs? I also support Manchester United but I can acknowlegde when someone has done something right. You just spout bullshit and can't see shit through your hateful agenda.

Odd comment since he signed a good portion of the players being called cowards (9 of the first team), and retained some of the older players he could have moved on. He said himself that it was his team and they were equipped to challenge for a title.

Well 10 bought and 1 swapped for Alexis, it makes 9 out of a squad of 25 is not most of the players Einstein. Compare that to how many Pep has bought.

13 of the 26 players in the Man City squad were bought by Pep. More but he obviously retained a decent amount of the original playing staff.

 

[shamans]

He regressed us simple as that.

 

[AJ10]

1 - A WC manager got this team to 2nd place and won a European cup a year before. That's a fact. These players have been playing like cowards for 6 years running. He talked shit about us? About how snowflake? About Woodward and the Glazers? Against underperforming bunch of overpaid shit? Or stated the obvious about a once a great club being run like amateurs? I also support Manchester United but I can acknowlegde when someone has done something right. You just spout bullshit and can't see shit through your hateful agenda.


2- Well 10 bought and 1 swapped for Alexis, it makes 9 out of a squad of 25 is not most of the players Einstein. Compare that to how many Pep has bought.


3- You are a frustrated chap aren't you? Of course I do blame others for bringing in players along with Jose. Like I don't attribute the good signing on him solely, but they are so few and in between. The transfers in his time here have been better then previous imo. We were spending shit load of money even before him, and who's fault is that? LVG? Moyes? Go figure it out.

4- Mkhitaryan was shit yet helped us winning the Europa League in his first season, and was bought for a position that was neglected for 3 years. Alexis we all wanted I'm sure Jose wanted as well. Don't tell me you didn't want Alexis for Mkhi in a straight swap, since it's pure bullshit. Manchester United bought Lukaku for 75m, and sent Rooney the other way, who was on enormous wages, in a market Alvaro Morata was worth 65m. Currently the best striker we have as it stands which is still saying something.

5- You are so fecking tiresome with that repeating of words, are you 12?


6- Well you can always talk about Moyes, that Fulham game with 1000 crosses. The great era of LVG and finishing 4th and killing the life of all the footballing world? Or the era of Angel Di Maria and Rojo? You must have loved that.

7 - Learn a bit of math, or common sense will you?


8- Yeah you must have loved winning 2 games out of 12 did you? That's rock bottom pal. Consider we were outplayed in those 2 games as well but yeah it was great.

And don't bother replying. I have no intention of defending Jose Mourinho against a someone who can't keep a mature debate.

1 - Wow.... Jose got us to second and won a second rate EL trophy. What Bravery for a WC manager to have that as some sort of achievement and city finished something like 20 points above us and we struggled vs mighty EL teams... Wheres the Standing Ovation emoji here?. Oh yes, my agenda while you're not at all lowering a WC managers standards to defend him.

I am so advanced in my own agenda that I completely forgot Jose still played those coward players rather than selling them, Oh wait.... that's you. Oh wait there's more, He bought "most" of them who are in the first 11. But yeah, my agenda.

I was referring to those Sevilla comments he made.

2- In terms of first 11 not out of the squad, bar Dalot and fred they all played many times in first 11.

3- Surely the blame has to go to the manager since he's the one identifying those players. Just as blame went to previous managers. Isn't it his responsibility to sort out our problems like RB/RW etc which he neglected.

4- I never said I didn't want sanchez but you were the one saying " heck we don't even know who buys players at the club", Lukaku vs Morata choice of 2 shit strikers one can't finish and the other can't control a ball. Yeah what a deal. Great way to justify that.

5- Am I 12? No, was just making my alleged agenda clearer for you.

6 - Hmmm A world class vs a clown or manager who was past it. Should I be more disappointing by Jose a WC managers failure or a no body or manager who was past it??. Hard choice. The lengths people go to defend Jose, even lower his standards for him Once again, other managers failures doesn't justify Jose failure.

7- look at 2 and he shouldn't be responsible for replacing the shit players?

8- We got outplayed?, think you're confusing that with Bristol city/Huddersfield/West Brom/Derby. Where we hardly created anything (against those mighty teams), Have no idea how jose got us threw those games, poor man. Even in our loosing streak we've managed to create really good chances and could have got results if our players didn't miss sitters and made individual mistakes but its alot better than being cowards from the start vs lower teams which was just Pathetic, just like the man who managed them.

Funny how you forgot this part> (Those comments about united after sevilla game (I mean, united fans all around the world must hate anyone who talks shit about their beloved club). Defending a manager who was all about himself against the club you support But yeah, my agenda.

You're Defending him? more like clutching at tiny straws.

 

[Kostov]

Odd comment since he signed a good portion of the players being called cowards (9 of the first team), and retained some of the older players he could have moved on. He said himself that it was his team and they were equipped to challenge for a title.

I don't think it's odd. The players that were bought in his tenure were better than what we were buying previously. And players were retained that shouldn't have been retained, but I sincerely don't know for sure what was happening behind scenes. He said it was his team? I've seen him comparing this squad to Klopp or Pep squads and how many they have brought in, alluding to them having bigger overhauls, which I think it's the truth. And I don't remember him saying this team is equipped to challenge for the title, if so he either was plating mind games or was on drugs. This team was miles behind City's.

13 of the 26 players in the Man City squad were bought by Pep. More but he obviously retained a decent amount of the original playing staff.

Well yeah as you said, Pep inherited Kompany, Aguero, David Silva, KDB and others, Mourinho inherited Smalling, Ashley Young and Phil Jones.

 

[MackRobinson]

I don't think it's odd. The players that were bought in his tenure were better than what we were buying previously. And players were retained that shouldn't have been retained, but I sincerely don't know for sure what was happening behind scenes. He said it was his team? I've seen him comparing this squad to Klopp or Pep squads and how many they have brought in, alluding to them having bigger overhauls, which I think it's the truth. And I don't remember him saying this team is equipped to challenge for the title, if so he either was plating mind games or was on drugs. This team was miles behind City's.

Yes. It's been posted countless times, but it usually just gets ignored. Also it's not fair to say it's just mind games or some other excuse.

"In many ways, it is my team. In terms of the squad, this is my second transfer window. I was thinking, three transfer windows, I need that. But after two windows I have a good group and a football club much better equipped."

"To buy lots of good players is important. Better squads are better equipped to win the title. That is normal, but that is not enough. I think every one of us is equipped to win the title."

https://www.skysports.com/football/...nited-are-ready-for-a-serious-title-challenge

This was before the signings of Sanchez, Dalot, and Fred. It wasn't until the second half of 2018/19 that he started using the board as a scapegoat and claiming his squad was far behind his rivals. About a year later he tries to claim it isn't his team. The guy will literally say anything or blame anyone do deflect responsibility.

 

[Kostov]

Yes. It's been posted countless times, but it usually just gets ignored. Also it's not fair to say it's just mind games or some other excuse.

He did indeed, I have forgot about these comments. It's not ignored, just people are taking everything for granted. At the end of the day, after those words he came the closest at 2nd place, and that was my original point. He was hardly going to say this team is not good enough to compete with City. In the same article he describes Arsenal as equipped to challenge as well. It's not fair to use it against him imo also. In his time we brought a 10 players as already mentioned. Alexis replaced Mkhi, and Lukaku replaced Zlatan, one of them was also Grant a 3rd GK. There are number of factors which played out after these comments.

And I stand by what I said, we will struggle to achieve what we did with him, coming to 2nd place.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...nited-are-ready-for-a-serious-title-challenge

This was before the signings of Sanchez, Dalot, and Fred. It wasn't until the second half of 2018/19 that he started using the board as a scapegoat and claiming his squad was far behind his rivals. About a year later he tries to claim it isn't his team. The guy will literally say anything or blame anyone do deflect responsibility.

Well number of things happened in between that August 2017 and second half of 2018/19, not only the 3 transfers you mention. We lost Zlatan (probably leadership), the Pogba conflict, Alexis fiasco (and how he mishandled he situation with Martial. New contract also, and then Woodward though he knew better by denying him whatever was promised, and him downing tools.

The squad was far behind City that is a fact, it was before he arrived and then they proceeded by investing even more despite having less needs. That is a fact and whether Jose admitted to it, we shouldn't use it against him. He will say anything to divert responsibility of course he will. That is Jose Mourinho, but what do you expect him to say? It was all my fault? He'd rather sell his soul, but not everything he says is rubbish nor untrue also, which many on here seem to claim.

 

[Keefy18]

So according to Transfermarket, van Gaal spent £316,215,000 on 12 players vs Mourinhos £419,490,000 on 10. Not exactly twice as much.

All your other points are subjective. I dont think that his appointment made any lasting positive changes.

It's not really subjective though is it? By the Liverpool game in December there wasn't a single positive to be had from Jose's tenure at the club.

De Gea dreadful, back line woeful...together our worse defensive performance since the 70s.
Midfield, only Pogba worth talking about and an average McTominay whom he didn't play. Massive investment that looks like it will need an overhaul again.
Attack woeful, not scoring and massive overspend on Sanchez & Lukaku.

The team was a tactical mess, unfit, some overweight and others just not playing for him or the club.

 

[WensleyMU]

How can people not hate Mourinho? He was disrespectful to the club and the history of the club while simultaneously playing abysmal football. How anyone can remain objective about the cretin is mental,

Remaining objective on a subject is something adults do. Children however...

Now, I assume you are a middle aged man, which makes the fact you and many others act like your age is in single digits when discussing Mourinho, much much worse but come on, pull your head from your backside and get a grip.

People can dislike Mourinho or whatever they want to do. Where it gets weird is when people make it personal. I mean, come on ffs, the scousers are more sensible over Hodgson and he was actually dreadful.

 

[JK-27]

Jose's era taught us that he knew how far behind we were and yet no one wanted to listen. He knew that players had now taken the power at Utd yet no one wanted to listen, and his era proved that Woodward was a lot more culpable for the years of rot than people wanted to believe.

Given the last 3 years, the fact we still managed to win the League Cup, Europa League, runners-up in the Prem, ad runners-up in the FA Cup with this group of players is remarkable. It wasn't enjoyable football to watch but he over-achieved.

 

[MackRobinson]

He did indeed, I have forgot about these comments. It's not ignored, just people are taking everything for granted. At the end of the day, after those words he came the closest at 2nd place, and that was my original point.

He didn't come close at all to a title challenge. 19 points adrift is not a title challenge. The title race was effectively over by January.

He was hardly going to say this team is not good enough to compete with City. In the same article he describes Arsenal as equipped to challenge as well. It's not fair to use it against him imo also. In his time we brought a 10 players as already mentioned. Alexis replaced Mkhi, and Lukaku replaced Zlatan, one of them was also Grant a 3rd GK. There are number of factors which played out after these comments.

How is it not fair to use his own words against him? He called it his squad and said they can compete for the title. It's pretty clear.

And I stand by what I said, we will struggle to achieve what we did with him, coming to 2nd place.

You can believe that now but the fact remains Jose and a good portion of the fanbase thought his team could challenge for a title.

Well number of things happened in between that August 2017 and second half of 2018/19, not only the 3 transfers you mention. We lost Zlatan (probably leadership), the Pogba conflict, Alexis fiasco (and how he mishandled he situation with Martial. New contract also, and then Woodward though he knew better by denying him whatever was promised, and him downing tools.

A few things
- Zlatan was already lost before this interview
- Alexis wasn't on the team, and his transfer was seen as a huge positive by almost everyone
- the Pogba conflict was self-inflicted, not does it reduce the quality of the playing staff
- the Matrial situation was self-inflicted
- the new contract is irrelevant to the squad
- Woodward denied him a CB to fix his prior mistakes. That doesn't make it all of a sudden make it not his team

The last excuse you brought up in pretty telling. How can you not blame the manager for downing tools? I don't know if he did and I'd rather not speculate, but if you think he did how can you as a United fan still defend him after that?

The squad was far behind City that is a fact, it was before he arrived and then they proceeded by investing even more despite having less needs. That is a fact and whether Jose admitted to it, we shouldn't use it against him. He will say anything to divert responsibility of course he will. That is Jose Mourinho, but what do you expect him to say? It was all my fault? He'd rather sell his soul, but not everything he says is rubbish nor untrue also, which many on here seem to claim.

Do you really have no problem with a grown adult not being able to take responsibility for anything? I'm sorry but I find this line of thinking odd and a bit disturbing. You are essentially telling me that Jose Mourinho's word means nothing, except when you think he's right. You have essentially given him a pass for anything even before it's happened and that doesn't sit right with me.

Part of being a leader is taking responsibility, galvanizing/inspiring your subordinates, and being able to communicate effectively. Why defend a manager who failed miserably at these basic principles? It has nothing to do with blaming everything on Jose, but just simply acknowledging he did a poor job and many of the issues were clearly self-inflicted. Using Woodward as a scapegoat and overvaluing the that 2nd place finish and those 2 minor cups still don't absolve him of anything.

With that said, I'm not interested in talking about this anymore. You are entrenched in your position and will never change your mind. I'm trying to understand but I don't think your line of thinking will ever make sense to me.

 

[Kostov]

He didn't come close at all to a title challenge. 19 points adrift is not a title challenge. The title race was effectively over by January.

I meant closest to the top post Fergie. You are right the title challenge was over at Old Trafford in December if a Remember correctly.

How is it not fair to use his own words against him? He called it his squad and said they can compete for the title. It's pretty clear.
You can believe that now but the fact remains Jose and a good portion of the fanbase thought his team could challenge for a title.

Well good portion of our fan spout a lot of bullshit. Even Mourinho himself spouted lots of bullshit in that interview. He called Arsenal equipped for a challenge as well. He knew what he was doing, he wasn't stupid, he is hardly going to say this team is miles behind City when we just went out and bough 4 players. (even though I feel we needed more, just like we need more this summer as well)

A few things
- Zlatan was already lost before this interview
- Alexis wasn't on the team, and his transfer was seen as a huge positive by almost everyone
- the Pogba conflict was self-inflicted, not does it reduce the quality of the playing staff
- the Matrial situation was self-inflicted
- the new contract is irrelevant to the squad
- Woodward denied him a CB to fix his prior mistakes. That doesn't make it all of a sudden make it not his team

I didn't think Zlatan was lost honestly, I felt he could play a bigger part which turned false hope.
Alexis felt like a huge positive and I mentioned his introduction at the expense of Martial as Mourinho's mistakes. I've always said that on here.

The Pogba conflict was not self inflicted mate. Mourinho is not the type of manager to play the nice guy to anyone. Pogba has been a right prick and we are still reaping the benefits of the club backing a player over the manager. It should never be the case, and in my opinion it has been the moment everything started to fall apart. Of course the new contract is relevant, why would you give him a new contract and then decide no to back him? I mean at least they should have talked about the way they plan to play the whole summer out. And who the feck is Woodward to deny Mourinho a player? Because he mastermined this whole downfall? I mean City didn't deny Pep a new GK after Bravo failed, neither did Pool after Karius? Who is this footballing expert making these decisions?

The last excuse you brought up in pretty telling. How can you not blame the manager for downing tools? I don't know if he did and I'd rather not speculate, but if you think he did how can you as a United fan still defend him after that?

I can understand an employee downing tools after promises made are not fulfilled, and that is what I think happened when Woodward renew his contract in February and decided not to back him in the Pogba fiasco and in the transfer market. Especially when you undermine someone who is supposed to manager characters in a high profile business.

Do you really have no problem with a grown adult not being able to take responsibility for anything? I'm sorry but I find this line of thinking odd and a bit disturbing. You are essentially telling me that Jose Mourinho's word means nothing, except when you think he's right. You have essentially given him a pass for anything even before it's happened and that doesn't sit right with me.

I didn't say I didn't have a problem, my point was I expect that from Mourinho. He has always been first about himself, and why would he take responsibility, for what? In his mindset, he was failed by Woodward probably, and he is a selfish bastard even before that. I've grown to know him for the selfish character he has always been, and my point is I don't expect anything more from him. On the other side has Woodward come out and taken any responsibility for these past 6 years? Has Pogba? They have all been part of the problem and Woodward the most.

Part of being a leader is taking responsibility, galvanizing/inspiring your subordinates, and being able to communicate effectively. Why defend a manager who failed miserably at these basic principles? It has nothing to do with blaming everything on Jose, but just simply acknowledging he did a poor job and many of the issues were clearly self-inflicted. Using Woodward as a scapegoat and overvaluing the that 2nd place finish and those 2 minor cups still don't absolve him of anything.

Part of being the leader is also being fully backed by the one who put you in charge. Mourinho has implied that he wasn't fully backed in the conflict with the players. There are different types of leaders, the one we hired was never one to play the nice guy. The one who hired him should have known that.

With that said, I'm not interested in talking about this anymore. You are entrenched in your position and will never change your mind. I'm trying to understand but I don't think your line of thinking will ever make sense to me.

Neither have I. I didn't really want to defend Mourinho. He has done lots of bad things and some good things. I only pointed out that he was best of a bad bunch and the trend might continue in the future.

 

[Buster15]

He's a very good salesman.

You see. This is, if you don't mind me saying, a typically ignorant comment.
It completely ignores all of his outstanding achievements at every other club he has managed at, been successful at and won major championships at.
He is no salesman.
He is a serial winner and would have continued to be so at United. He performed a mini miracle to get us to 81 points last season.
I repeat. The fact that it didn't work out was a missed opportunity.

 

[AJ10]

You see. This is, if you don't mind me saying, a typically ignorant comment.
It completely ignores all of his outstanding achievements at every other club he has managed at, been successful at and won major championships at.
He is no salesman.
He is a serial winner and would have continued to be so at United. He performed a mini miracle to get us to 81 points last season.
I repeat. The fact that it didn't work out was a missed opportunity.

Mini Miracle? Spent nearly 400 mil but performed a Miracle by being 20 points behind city and above Pool who were focused on CL, I mean mini miracle.

What does his previous trophies have to do with anything he did here? He failed here.

My comment was regarding people supporting a man who talked shit about United (Sevilla comments) and Jose's ability to lay blame on everyone but himself. Clearly people bought it (sounds like a good salesman) but ignore playing cowardice football vs bottom half teams/ Neglecting key positions which needed to be filled urgently/Shit signings but yeah, the narrative is he didn't have money to spend.........only a tiny fortune which was used to help defend like cowards vs bottom half teams.

So what does what he did previously has to do with anything regarding my comment? I'll answer it for you.....Nothing.

Just because he was successful before doesn't mean he wasn't a failure here and Jose has never gone past the 3rd season (unless mistaken) so there's no expectation of him being able to be successful long term here, as he's a short term manager and he peaked in his third season here like he has done in his previous clubs.

 

[Buster15]

Mini Miracle? Spent nearly 400 mil but performed a Miracle by being 20 points behind city and above Pool who were focused on CL, I mean mini miracle.

What does his previous trophies have to do with anything he did here? He failed here.

My comment was regarding people supporting a man who talked shit about United (Sevilla comments) and Jose's ability to lay blame on everyone but himself. Clearly people bought it (sounds like a good salesman) but ignore playing cowardice football vs bottom half teams/ Neglecting key positions which needed to be filled urgently/Shit signings but yeah, the narrative is he didn't have money to spend.........only a tiny fortune which was used to help defend like cowards vs bottom half teams.

So what does what he did previously has to do with anything regarding my comment? I'll answer it for you.....Nothing.

Just because he was successful before doesn't mean he wasn't a failure here and Jose has never gone past the 3rd season (unless mistaken) so there's no expectation of him being able to be successful long term here, as he's a short term manager and he peaked in his third season here like he has done in his previous clubs.

So you don't like him then. I could never have guessed.
Don't get so excited. These are only options. You have yours and I have mine.

 

[AJ10]

So you don't like him then. I could never have guessed.
Don't get so excited. These are only options. You have yours and I have mine.

WC manager but didn't want him here due to that eye poke. But since we did hire him, I backed him and many things he said were 100% correct but him shitting on our club after that Sevilla game when he set the team to defend from start was just pathetic and I can't believe United fans are ok with it.

While others are painting his second season as a mini miracle and me disagreeing with it doesn't mean I think he's a bad manager or i don't like him but I find it amusing as if we're talking about a Rookie manager not WC. 2nd place is the minimum that should be expected from jose, we're not talking about a average manager as you've listed his accomplishments.
Lowering levels to seem successful isn't success.

Excited? Thats your come back? I guess you can't disagree with what i said. Nothing wrong with agreeing with other peoples opinions.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Nothing. Anything that cnut might have "fixed" he burned down in the run up to being sacked.

Agreed, this says it all.

 

[Buster15]

WC manager but didn't want him here due to that eye poke. But since we did hire him, I backed him and many things he said were 100% correct but him shitting on our club after that Sevilla game when he set the team to defend from start was just pathetic and I can't believe United fans are ok with it.

While others are painting his second season as a mini miracle and me disagreeing with it doesn't mean I think he's a bad manager or i don't like him but I find it amusing as if we're talking about a Rookie manager not WC. 2nd place is the minimum that should be expected from jose, we're not talking about a average manager as you've listed his accomplishments.
Lowering levels to seem successful isn't success.

Excited? Thats your come back? I guess you can't disagree with what i said. Nothing wrong with agreeing with other peoples opinions.

Equally nothing wrong with disagreement with others opinions. Imagine how boring it would be we didn't have different opinions.
Setting that aside, the most important thing to me is seeing Manchester United right back at the very top. Winning and not being satisfied with a 4th or even 2nd place finish.
On that my friend I am sure we both agree. Yes?

 

[AJ10]

Equally nothing wrong with disagreement with others opinions. Imagine how boring it would be we didn't have different opinions.
Setting that aside, the most important thing to me is seeing Manchester United right back at the very top. Winning and not being satisfied with a 4th or even 2nd place finish.
On that my friend I am sure we both agree. Yes?

Of course.

 

[MackRobinson]

I can understand an employee downing tools after promises made are not fulfilled, and that is what I think happened when Woodward renew his contract in February and decided not to back him in the Pogba fiasco and in the transfer market. Especially when you undermine someone who is supposed to manager characters in a high profile business.

Part of being the leader is also being fully backed by the one who put you in charge. Mourinho has implied that he wasn't fully backed in the conflict with the players. There are different types of leaders, the one we hired was never one to play the nice guy. The one who hired him should have known that.

Mourinho was more that just an employee. He is the manager. He is supposed to be the leader of his squad.
Leaders don't down tools. Leaders don't quit on their team when they don't get what they want. Leaders don't publicly shame subordinates.

 

[Kostov]

Mourinho was more that just an employee. He is the manager. He is supposed to be the leader of his squad.
Leaders don't down tools. Leaders don't quit on their team when they don't get what they want. Leaders don't publicly shame subordinates.

Well leaders don’t get to be undermined by their subordinates simply because of an incompetent higher ranking CEO chose to side with his most marketable superstar, who 6 months after Mourinho is gone is trying to engineer a move away for the second time. Players should not also down tools and stop performing for the managers just because they don’t like him.

Leaders quit on teams constantly when they don’t have full backing. Leaders publicly shame subordinates constantly, just take a look at Zidane and Bale today. Just because it’s Mourinho let’s not make a witch hunt.

 

[Devil81]

He didn't fix anything, he made it worse.

Without Ibra he'd have zero trophies and zero success at all at United.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

LVG was better than Jose considering the plan was to give the Job afterwards to Giggs much like the job was given to Ole or could have been given to Carrick or Butt.

At the end of LVG's second season - we had players like TFM, Varela, CBj, Martial, Rashford, Lingard, Tuenzebe in and around the first team. I'd like to have seen that continue as another season would have led us to less titles but more kids and around the first team. Even if TFM or Varela wasn't good enough for us in the long term - could they not have just played the way Valencia and Young did for us? I think they easily could have.

I don't care what people say about how these kids are not good enough because they can't perform for scunthorpe etc - because that's not how all football works; they were doing fine for United & could have improved here.

Jose instantly turned a good potential strikers partnership of Martial & Rashford even potentially depay in to all wingers playing for one spot as soon as he came in. He turned all the young players that were doing generally well in the first team straight in to loans where they now struggle and probably won't come back from. Our CB's atleast started to get some rigidity that could have been further improved upon.

LVG spends money badly & I don't agree with some of the transfers - but a homegrown manager could have taken over LVG's players & decided who was good enough, who wasn't and who deserved a continued chance in the first team.

The only think I like about Jose's tenure is Pogba"s purchase & that would have happened without Jose anyway because Pogba gets the attention from United more so than any other club.

Whilst only LVG fans like me would have wanted to see a 3rd year out of him - the best thing we could have done is let a homegrown manager take over what he had started and continued it whilst improving it.

 

[Champagne Football]

When it became apparent that Veron or Berbatov were not Utd players, Fergie mostly continued to play them, to keep their value up so that we could hopefully sell them on if a decent offer came. To respect the club. With Jose if he thinks an expensive signing isn't up to it after seeing them for 5 minutes, he dumps them on the bench and demands another 100 million to replace them. And if you don't give him what he wants then he starts throwing the tantrums, making mad team selections to get back at the board, starts throwing players and the board under a bus at every opportunity.

When Fergie never got Bale or Shearer because the board wouldn't go higher, he just dealt with it and moved on. When Jose never got Maguire, even though he knew defenders he had recently bought needed to be sold first, he basically started behaving like an enraged 12 year old, who was very aware that he was entitled to massive money if he got fired, which I think is what he wanted deep down. He was tired of living in a hotel room. Imaging having to say hello to the same 20 hotel staff and hotel guests each day. No privacy after a tough day at the office. No back garden to relax in on a sunny day. He was bored and cooked up in his hotel room half the time, calling his contacts in the media in Portugal to write endless malicious articles about Conte and Pogba.

Jose and Pogba's fueding is comparable to when Lady Gaga and Madonna started trading barbs. It will be remembered as the time two divas went to war at Utd, where winning the diva handbags was far more important to them than winning on the pitch.