Drifter
American
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2004
- Messages
- 68,396
Farage keeps saying he vows to change UK politics. But every time he is pushed on policy ,he as been found wanting.
It's not that. It's the fact that you've told a group of people 'You can go free of the system if you want, whatever your reasons' and then take that freedom of choice away and tie them down anyway.Without wanting to go down the same path again, people have already been told its a lie. The £350 million for the NHS, the easiest trade deal in history, not having to pay to leave etc. All now proven as completeness nonsense.
I dunno, you saw the massive drop off in support for Uk kip once leave had won the referendum, the resurgence of the brexit party(which is just basically Ukip2.0). Has only come now when their seems to be a precieved threat article 50 will be withdrawn.This is inevitable, with or without Brexit.
There was an appetite for compromise immediately after the ref. If there'd been a quick and clear move to join EFTA, we'd be on our way to leaving right now. Remainers like me would've grumbled, Rees-Mogg would've done his 18th century thing from the backbenches, but it would've got through. But it didn't happen because May and Corbyn both set out red lines that made it impossible.Which is the problem, you have around 50% of the country wanting 1 thing and 50% wanting another. what a responsible parliament would do is find a compromise, not just go we have to go 100% one way or the other.
Take away politics and everything else thats how responsible adults should act, never mind people in charge of running a country.
Well you'd think people might be more philosophical about being deceived, given that we've had bloody centuries of it.It's not that. It's the fact that you've told a group of people 'You can go free of the system if you want, whatever your reasons' and then take that freedom of choice away and tie them down anyway.
That's the lie that hurts more than anything else to leavers. The lie that 'your choice matters' has never been more obvious than in the last 3 years.
It has a greater significance beyond Brexit.
Won’t stop the dullards flocking to him though.Farage keeps saying he vows to change UK politics. But every time he is pushed on policy ,he as been found wanting.
Try 39 thousand million.I am a leaver yes but didn't vote in this election because I feel I shouldn't be voting on something I don't believe in.
I don't really take to Nigel Farage much, apart from agreeing with him on the single issue of Brexit.
Again, a bit of a misconception on the remain side of things. It is uncertain what we have to actually pay. The 39 million was a figure from the withdrawal deal, which is certain not to pass.
You called me a WUM for saying that 4 weeks ago.Even the Corbynites have given up pretending it's all well and good. Tbf, I think the party is fecked either way so I've stopped caring about him since I. Stuck a fork in him long ago.
Tbh, can't remember. And in those four weeks, we've had two disastrous results for Labour.You called me a WUM for saying that 4 weeks ago.
If the current impasse ultimately ends in a changing of the FPTP electoral system, he will have changed UK Politics on a seismic scale, regardless of whether he achieves Brexit or not.Farage keeps saying he vows to change UK politics. But every time he is pushed on policy ,he as been found wanting.
He has said he wants to abolish the house of lords... I don't agree with farrage on much but that seems pretty logical and sensible...that said I've not seen him propose how to replace it and that could well be some batshit crazy solutionIf the current impasse ultimately ends in a changing of the FPTP electoral system, he will have changed UK Politics on a seismic scale, regardless of whether he achieves Brexit or not.
He says he wants to “end the two party system” - let’s see what he means when he starts adding meat to the bone of Brexit Party policy. For what it’s worth, if he achieves that alone, he should be lauded not derided because FPTP, with its nodding dog mantra of Lab/Con voters sticking their X next to the donkeys wearing blue/red rosettes is fecking wank and long past it’s sell by date.
But it's never been this blatantly obvious, at least not in my lifetime.Well you'd think people might be more philosophical about being deceived, given that we've had bloody centuries of it.
The real issue here is clearly that none of the politicians had thought very hard about how to go through with a potential Brexit. So now you have people like yourself who feel deceived because Brexit hasn't been delivered. However the fact of the matter is that Brexit couldn't ever be a question of just getting out as long as the Irish border is a reality.It's not that. It's the fact that you've told a group of people 'You can go free of the system if you want, whatever your reasons' and then take that freedom of choice away and tie them down anyway.
That's the lie that hurts more than anything else to leavers. The lie that 'your choice matters' has never been more obvious than in the last 3 years.
It has a greater significance beyond Brexit.
They'll have one more after Brexit and got more votes. The traditional left and right performed miserably.Alongside LREM, they both have 23 seats.
The Italians and French will hope to change and disrupt the EU from within. And that's much better than leaving.Another thing I don't get about these European elections is:
Why are we (the European people) filling the European Parliament full of Eurosceptics??? What is the point?
It's not just the UK, but France, Italy etc etc as well.
What positive can that possibly achieve?
The traditional left and right have been irrelevant for years, there is nothing new here. The only difference is that for the first time in a long time the party in power hasn't been sanctioned.They'll have one more after Brexit and got more votes. The traditional left and right performed miserably.
The Italians and French will hope to change and disrupt the EU from within, which is better than leaving.
And an article from this month breaking down the costs of a no deal Brexit even more.It's not entirely certain that there are any laws that forces us to pay. https://fullfact.org/europe/no-deal-divorce-bill-legally-obligated-pay/
Though yes it's going to be a long legal wrangle with the EU.
We won't the vast majority is pro EU.The Italians and French will hope to change and disrupt the EU from within. And that's much better than leaving.
It's important to remember that the kind of eurosceptic tradition which has long existed in Britain isn't replicated in the other countries you mention. What I mean then is they will try to reshape the EU much more in their own image, as opposed to collapsing the whole thing outright.This kind of shooting your own foot is beyond my realms of comprehension. Maybe I'm a simple guy, but I feel for the European Parliament to truly work you need everyone in there to be a believer of unity.
I know, see above.We won't the vast majority is pro EU.
Probably, no deal Brexit means less tax revenue as we slash taxes to ensure business investment, and less people have money due to job losses and businesses becoming less profitable (less income from tax).Somebody please tell me that a no deal Brexit would result in a lowering of benefit payments to the jobless as most of the loonies I know who voted for it, don't plan to work anytime soon.
I think a tax increase for people like me is inevitable in the event of no deal.And an article from this month breaking down the costs of a no deal Brexit even more.
I assume you’re good with paying your fair share of the non-divorce bill costs, as well as helping to recoup a possible 10% reduction in the UK economy?
Why what kind of person are you?I think a tax increase for people like me is inevitable in the event of no deal.
Not someone like you, we know why you went to Peru. Tax dodger.Why what kind of person are you?
The kinda person who thinks it's necessary to take some risks in the short term to give yourself a chance for more/better options of growth for the future.Why what kind of person are you?
Out means out. And I meant it.Not someone like you, we know why you went to Peru. Tax dodger.
What are the better options in the future if you leave the EU with no deal? What's better than the current situation?The kinda person who thinks it's necessary to take some risks in the short term to give yourself a chance for more/better options of growth for the future.
Good things don't come without a price to be paid.
An outside chance for a chance at another outside chance is a shit bet to make Buddy.The kinda person who thinks it's necessary to take some risks in the short term to give yourself a chance for more/better options of growth for the future.
Good things don't come without a price to be paid.