So the EU is a bad thing?
UK European Elections 2019 | Results Tonight from 10pm
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Looking like SF, DUP and Alliance. Two pro remain candidates.
Meanwhile Arlene has come out and said "'Small u' unionists have clearly voted for the Alliance Party and they have to reflect on why that's the case,"
Small u Unionists
- I mean is she just on a mission to have the entire population of the country hate her?Brexit is the answer to her question.Looking like SF, DUP and Alliance. Two pro remain candidates.
Meanwhile Arlene has come out and said "'Small u' unionists have clearly voted for the Alliance Party and they have to reflect on why that's the case,"
Small u Unionists
It doesnt need replacing, just abolishing.
The 600 and some odd MPs should be more than enough when it comes to checks and balances.
It's not a bad thing. The EU gives a lot, but also expects a lot in return. The money we give them does come back in some way, but why do that? I just think it's a whole layer of unnecessary bureaucracy. Though I think if you are a smaller country, you'd definitely want to be in the EU.
There are the limits though, like in terms of aligning laws and trade. I'm not very keen on that personally. I think if we didn't have to align to the ECJ or EFTA I would probably be pro-remain. (But if we didn't align to them are we even in the EU..?)
Immigration and free movement doesn't really bother me. If we want to keep free movement, I feel there's nothing stopping us opening the borders after Brexit.
Nazis round every corner, 40 year old white men hating the brown people and the gays as they cry crocodile tears about “better times” when there were no commies and trannies about.
FFS.
So you don't really think that there is a price to pay for good things?
And what you suggest means that you don't want to be in any sort of deal with anyone, I'm not sure if you realize it but what you wrote means that you are as far from pro-remain as one can be.
Do you play poker?
I’m assuming you do, as this is draw poker logic, and I agree.
Of course I do, if I stay, we have to pay the EU budget. If we leave, we have to get ready for a possible economic downturn. To me, there are costs whether you leave or you don't.So you don't really think that there is a price to pay for good things?
And what you suggest means that you don't want to be in any sort of deal with anyone, I'm not sure if you realize it but what you wrote means that you are as far from pro-remain as one can be.
And no I'm not pro-remain, I thought that was pretty clear.
OK. So please tell.
What are the more/better options for future growth you are referring to....
For me personally, a future where the country is not limited by the rulings of the ECJ and EFTA.
But there really are not. Numerous studies have shown that the UK gets far more back from the EU than it puts in, through trade, grants, student funds etc.
If you stay, you make money, if you leave, you definitely lose money, a lot of money, and jobs, and healthcare funding, and free movement for your citizens, etc. etc.
That's not an answer to my question. How does that actually benefit you?
I'm not gonna put my personal or family circumstances on a forum.
Those are just headings.
How are we being limited by the ECJ - examples.
The EFTA will only limit us when we are outside and don't have access to it. Again - examples.
I've seen this written a few times, and I couldn't disagree more.
For most of the last century, the governing party had had a majority within the HoC.
There should be at least one alternative system to provide checks and balances
Is there a reason why we must align with the CAP? Why?
Brexit
Labour votes > Tory votes
Lib Dem + Green votes > Brexit Party Votes
Change UK votes > UKIP votes
SNP and Plaid Cymru votes as spare change.
What mandate for hard Brexit?
Labour votes > Tory votes
Lib Dem + Green votes > Brexit Party Votes
Change UK votes > UKIP votes
SNP and Plaid Cymru votes as spare change.
What mandate for hard Brexit?
What do you mean by align?
I mean, we will be when we leave anyway. For many years.
You don't have to. I'm asking what the benefits of leaving the ECTA and EFA are? Do you know of any?
can't even flail a gay these days, PC gone mad
Yes, there is nothing close to a majority for a hard Brexit,* but there is absolute confusion about the overall way forward as your other post suggested.
*Will be interesting to see the polls moving under PM Boris.
Now that is a proper example.
When we are allowed to negotiate our own deals with the US, Canada, China (maybe the EU ha) etc, let's see where that gets us. At this moment, since we haven't actually left the EU yet, everything I say will be put down to speculation and not actual examples.
The ECHR won't let you do that, so leaving the EU won't be enough.
Hypothetically, do you think that Scotland would have better trade deals, if they negotiated them without the rest of the UK?
Bringing out the UK's super duper negotiating team to get a better deal than they can as part of the EU. Something to look forward to I suppose.
While that is going on what happens at the ports?
Why would you ever think the UK could negotiate a better deal than the entirely of the EU? It’s like expecting your local off license to get better deals than Asda. It’s nonsensical.
It's long, but try to get through this. It's basically all the (72) rules the UK have had imposed on them.
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Admitting this is more than most Leaver's I've encountered will say so fair enough. I can't see you possibly getting trade deals remotely as good as the ones you have, and the ones the EU already have with those countries you've mentioned, but if you truly have faith that it's possible then that's your call.
I don't think it's about being "as good", it's about how tailored it is to what the UK needs. The EU has a hugely diverse economy so has to protect a wide range of industries that are not only irrelevant to the UK economy, they actively harm UK consumers in order to protect those of other countries.
The theory would be you could have a "worse" deal overall but if it were far more tailored to the UK's own economy them it could do far more good than harm.
It would be a similar argument to the Euro in that some countries could have a far "worse" currency in terms of stability and value; but the ability to implement monetary policies dependant on the economic realities of their particular landscape would outweigh any benefits.
Obviously dependant on where you are in the argument depends on whether you believe the inevitable concessions the UK would need to give due to their lesser bargaining position would be outweighed by tailoring the deal to the UK.
Lord Ashcroft with his dumbest prediction to date
Fair point.
I guess honestly the only realistic compromise, is May deal. As some one who has serious issues with the conservative and think May is quite frankly a liar.
But her eal is basically the only way forward which is a compromise. Is it a perfect deal? absolute not, but it provides a very soft brexit, it fufills our commitments finically to the EU gives us a temporary solution for northern ireland. and gives us a base to negotiate the actual leaving deal, becuase this is just a stop gap deal.
Please let this happenLord Ashcroft with his dumbest prediction to date
UKIP going from strength to strength so alls good, people starting to wake up, to the "problems" this country has.
Are you going to expand on the problems or run off like you normally do when people question your support for your poster boy?
You may be right that in an ideal world there is a network of trade deals that in aggregate is superior to what we have with the EU although I don’t believe it given the EUs negotiation expertise and leverage, but even if you were right, if it takes 30 years to create this optimal package - which it easily could do - in the meantime we’d suffer enormously from a highly sub optimal arrangement. 30 years of shit to create a slightly better arrangement for Uk consumers. What a waste of time.