So the EU is a bad thing?The kinda person who thinks it's necessary to take some risks in the short term to give yourself a chance for more/better options of growth for the future.
Good things don't come without a price to be paid.
So the EU is a bad thing?The kinda person who thinks it's necessary to take some risks in the short term to give yourself a chance for more/better options of growth for the future.
Good things don't come without a price to be paid.
Looking like SF, DUP and Alliance. Two pro remain candidates.Martina top of the 1st preference for the North great to see and Alliance doing very well as well.
Brexit is the answer to her question.Looking like SF, DUP and Alliance. Two pro remain candidates.
Meanwhile Arlene has come out and said "'Small u' unionists have clearly voted for the Alliance Party and they have to reflect on why that's the case,"
Small u Unionists - I mean is she just on a mission to have the entire population of the country hate her?
It doesnt need replacing, just abolishing.He has said he wants to abolish the house of lords... I don't agree with farrage on much but that seems pretty logical and sensible...that said I've not seen him propose how to replace it and that could well be some batshit crazy solution
It's not a bad thing. The EU gives a lot, but also expects a lot in return. The money we give them does come back in some way, but why do that? I just think it's a whole layer of unnecessary bureaucracy. Though I think if you are a smaller country, you'd definitely want to be in the EU.So the EU is a bad thing?
This whole Brexit shambles is just a way for the real puppet masters to make the world more right wing. Trump, check. UK next.
Some of the Tories will be secretly delighted that Farage and co have made gains. They do not care about Brexit really let's be honest, otherwise this would have been sorted ages ago. It is all a smoke screen...
All they care about is changing the narrative of this country to be less foreigner friendly and to drum up nationalistic views. It matters little to them if the people doing it are from the Brexit party, or Tommy Robinson. Yes they pay lip service and say all the politically correct things in front of the media but deep down, there is a significant number of people in the UK who want it to be more right wing. Never mind about the truth. Obviously they hate Corbyn, as he is a socialist, kind hearted (but poor leader) of a man. So he gets thrashed in the media day in day out for pretty much anything - even his jacket colour.
If you haven't realized this yet, you have not been paying attention. Grab your popcorn and watch all of this unfold..
So you don't really think that there is a price to pay for good things?It's not a bad thing. The EU gives a lot, but also expects a lot in return. The money we give them does come back in some way, but why do that? I just think it's a whole layer of unnecessary bureaucracy. Though I think if you are a smaller country, you'd definitely want to be in the EU.
There are the limits though, like in terms of aligning laws and trade. I'm not very keen on that personally. I think if we didn't have to align to the ECJ or EFTA I would probably be pro-remain. (But if we didn't align to them are we even in the EU..?)
Immigration and free movement doesn't really bother me. If we want to keep free movement, I feel there's nothing stopping us opening the borders after Brexit.
Do you play poker?The kinda person who thinks it's necessary to take some risks in the short term to give yourself a chance for more/better options of growth for the future.
Good things don't come without a price to be paid.
I’m assuming you do, as this is draw poker logic, and I agree.An outside chance for a chance at another outside chance is a shit bet to make Buddy.
What are the better options in the future if you leave the EU with no deal? What's better than the current situation?
Of course I do, if I stay, we have to pay the EU budget. If we leave, we have to get ready for a possible economic downturn. To me, there are costs whether you leave or you don't.So you don't really think that there is a price to pay for good things?
And what you suggest means that you don't want to be in any sort of deal with anyone, I'm not sure if you realize it but what you wrote means that you are as far from pro-remain as one can be.
OK. So please tell.The kinda person who thinks it's necessary to take some risks in the short term to give yourself a chance for more/better options of growth for the future.
Good things don't come without a price to be paid.
What are the better options in the future if you leave the EU with no deal? What's better than the current situation?
For me personally, a future where the country is not limited by the rulings of the ECJ and EFTA.OK. So please tell.
What are the more/better options for future growth you are referring to....
But there really are not. Numerous studies have shown that the UK gets far more back from the EU than it puts in, through trade, grants, student funds etc.Of course I do, if I stay, we have to pay the EU budget. If we leave, we have to get ready for a possible economic downturn. To me, there are costs whether you leave or you don't.
And no I'm not pro-remain, I thought that was pretty clear.
That's not an answer to my question. How does that actually benefit you?For me personally, a future where the country is not limited by the rulings of the ECJ and EFTA.
I'm not gonna put my personal or family circumstances on a forum.That's not an answer to my question. How does that actually benefit you?
Those are just headings.For me personally, a future where the country is not limited by the rulings of the ECJ and EFTA.
I've seen this written a few times, and I couldn't disagree more.It doesnt need replacing, just abolishing.
The 600 and some odd MPs should be more than enough when it comes to checks and balances.
Is there a reason why we must align with the CAP? Why?How are we being limited by the ECJ - examples.
I have to agree with the other posters.For me personally, a future where the country is not limited by the rulings of the ECJ and EFTA.
What do you mean by align?Is there a reason why we must align with the CAP? Why?
I mean, we will be when we leave anyway. For many years.Is there a reason why we must align with the CAP? Why?
You don't have to. I'm asking what the benefits of leaving the ECTA and EFA are? Do you know of any?I'm not gonna put my personal or family circumstances on a forum.
can't even flail a gay these days, PC gone madHow are we being limited by the ECJ - examples.
Yes, there is nothing close to a majority for a hard Brexit,* but there is absolute confusion about the overall way forward as your other post suggested.Brexit
Labour votes > Tory votes
Lib Dem + Green votes > Brexit Party Votes
Change UK votes > UKIP votes
SNP and Plaid Cymru votes as spare change.
What mandate for hard Brexit?
Now that is a proper example.can't even flail a gay these days, PC gone mad
When we are allowed to negotiate our own deals with the US, Canada, China (maybe the EU ha) etc, let's see where that gets us. At this moment, since we haven't actually left the EU yet, everything I say will be put down to speculation and not actual examples.You don't have to. I'm asking what the benefits of leaving the ECTA and EFA are? Do you know of any?
The ECHR won't let you do that, so leaving the EU won't be enough.can't even flail a gay these days, PC gone mad
Hypothetically, do you think that Scotland would have better trade deals, if they negotiated them without the rest of the UK?When we are allowed to negotiate our own deals with the US, Canada, China (maybe the EU ha) etc, let's see where that gets us. At this moment, since we haven't actually left the EU yet, everything I say will be put down to speculation and not actual examples.
Bringing out the UK's super duper negotiating team to get a better deal than they can as part of the EU. Something to look forward to I suppose.When we are allowed to negotiate our own deals with the US, Canada, China (maybe the EU ha) etc, let's see where that gets us. At this moment, since we haven't actually left the EU yet, everything I say will be put down to speculation and not actual examples.
Why would you ever think the UK could negotiate a better deal than the entirely of the EU? It’s like expecting your local off license to get better deals than Asda. It’s nonsensical.When we are allowed to negotiate our own deals with the US, Canada, China (maybe the EU ha) etc, let's see where that gets us. At this moment, since we haven't actually left the EU yet, everything I say will be put down to speculation and not actual examples.
It's long, but try to get through this. It's basically all the (72) rules the UK have had imposed on them.For me personally, a future where the country is not limited by the rulings of the ECJ and EFTA.
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Admitting this is more than most Leaver's I've encountered will say so fair enough. I can't see you possibly getting trade deals remotely as good as the ones you have, and the ones the EU already have with those countries you've mentioned, but if you truly have faith that it's possible then that's your call.When we are allowed to negotiate our own deals with the US, Canada, China (maybe the EU ha) etc, let's see where that gets us. At this moment, since we haven't actually left the EU yet, everything I say will be put down to speculation and not actual examples.
I don't think it's about being "as good", it's about how tailored it is to what the UK needs. The EU has a hugely diverse economy so has to protect a wide range of industries that are not only irrelevant to the UK economy, they actively harm UK consumers in order to protect those of other countries.Admitting this is more than most Leaver's I've encountered will say so fair enough. I can't see you possibly getting trade deals remotely as good as the ones you have, and the ones the EU already have with those countries you've mentioned, but if you truly have faith that it's possible then that's your call.
Fair point.There was an appetite for compromise immediately after the ref. If there'd been a quick and clear move to join EFTA, we'd be on our way to leaving right now. Remainers like me would've grumbled, Rees-Mogg would've done his 18th century thing from the backbenches, but it would've got through. But it didn't happen because May and Corbyn both set out red lines that made it impossible.
Wanting to go back to that stage isn't going to make it happen. What's the actual path out of the mess?
Please let this happenLord Ashcroft with his dumbest prediction to date
UKIP going from strength to strength so alls good, people starting to wake up, to the "problems" this country has.@Mal donaghy must be devastated.
Are you going to expand on the problems or run off like you normally do when people question your support for your poster boy?UKIP going from strength to strength so alls good, people starting to wake up, to the "problems" this country has.
You may be right that in an ideal world there is a network of trade deals that in aggregate is superior to what we have with the EU although I don’t believe it given the EUs negotiation expertise and leverage, but even if you were right, if it takes 30 years to create this optimal package - which it easily could do - in the meantime we’d suffer enormously from a highly sub optimal arrangement. 30 years of shit to create a slightly better arrangement for Uk consumers. What a waste of time.I don't think it's about being "as good", it's about how tailored it is to what the UK needs. The EU has a hugely diverse economy so has to protect a wide range of industries that are not only irrelevant to the UK economy, they actively harm UK consumers in order to protect those of other countries.
The theory would be you could have a "worse" deal overall but if it were far more tailored to the UK's own economy them it could do far more good than harm.
It would be a similar argument to the Euro in that some countries could have a far "worse" currency in terms of stability and value; but the ability to implement monetary policies dependant on the economic realities of their particular landscape would outweigh any benefits.
Obviously dependant on where you are in the argument depends on whether you believe the inevitable concessions the UK would need to give due to their lesser bargaining position would be outweighed by tailoring the deal to the UK.