James McClean: 'Does being abused for being Irish and anti Irish abuse acceptable?'

[villain]

White players aren’t discriminated against often, or hardly ever really. But I do think he has a point - Irish discrimination is alive and well and the fact that people who have no problem telling him to ‘put up with it’ or ‘feck off if he doesn’t like it’ aren’t chastised is evidence that it isn’t taken quite as seriously. Maybe because it’s so rare? That’s probably true, but it’s unfortunate if so.

Definitely unfortunate if he's just getting told to 'put up with it', that's no way to deal with any issue at all.
Hopefully him speaking out like this will tip the scales in his favour, when Sterling called out the tabloids on instagram late last year, all his negative press seemingly stopped and was a real tipping point in the conversation about racism in football. Before then, he (and others) were getting ignored largely.

 

[Champagne Football]

Why should he have to move abroad? This attitude of “if he doesn’t like it, he can feck off” is ridiculous, and would be rightly considered racist if directed at a black player who had complained of abuse. The fact you’re not extending him the same compassion sort of proves his point.

Look if an English player played in League of Ireland and refused to stand for the national anthem, then he's gonna get dogs abuse by a small section of the crowd. Most normal fans won't give a flying toss whether he stands or not but you always get a few clowns that use identity and patriotism as a way to dump their childish hate on someone.
McClean has a responsibility also not to inflame a situation, which I think he has done. This is not a victim being bullied as he sometimes makes out. Maybe he should man up, and consider meeting in the middle. Maybe he shouldn't look at the ground in disgust when God saves the Queen comes on. Maybe he doesn't have to put his hand on his heart when they sing it, and maybe he doesn't have to sing it, but maybe he can meet in the middle, keep his chin high in a respectful way, to show some form of tiny respect along with his peaceful protest, and maybe meeting in the middle, instead of playing the victim, is the way forward.

 

[2 man midfield]

Definitely unfortunate if he's just getting told to 'put up with it', that's no way to deal with any issue at all.
Hopefully him speaking out like this will tip the scales in his favour, when Sterling called out the tabloids on instagram late last year, all his negative press seemingly stopped and was a real tipping point in the conversation about racism in football. Before then, he (and others) were getting ignored largely.

Hopefully. For what it’s worth I wasn’t all that keen on McClean’s comments about Sterling in the article. Sterling is rightly getting praise for taking on the media and opening the conversation wider. He should’ve just made the comparison and stopped there really.

 

[F-Red]

Maybe he should man up.

 

[2 man midfield]

Look if an English player played in League of Ireland and refused to stand for the national anthem, then he's gonna get dogs abuse by a small section of the crowd. Most normal fans won't give a flying toss whether he stands or not but you always get a few clowns that use identity and patriotism as a way to dump their childish hate on someone.
McClean has a responsibility also not to. Inflame a situation, which I think he has done. This is not a victim being bullied ashe makes out. Maybe he should man up, and consider meeting in the middle. Maybe he shouldn't look at the ground in disgust when God saves the Queen comes on. Maybe he doesn't have to put his hand on his heart when they sing it, and maybe he doesn't have to sing it, but maybe he can meet in the middle, keep his chin high in a respectful way, to show some form of tiny respect along with his peaceful protest, and maybe meeting in the middle, instead of playing the victim is the way forward.

He could inflame the situation all he wants, it still wouldn’t make racial abuse justified. Did you say the same about Moise Kean the other day? That he shouldn’t have provoked the abuse?

Maybe it is just common sense not to invite racial abuse, but that still doesn’t make it your fault when people oblige.

 

[villain]

Look if an English player played in League of Ireland and refused to stand for the national anthem, then he's gonna get dogs abuse by a small section of the crowd. Most normal fans won't give a flying toss whether he stands or not but you always get a few clowns that use identity and patriotism as a way to dump their childish hate on someone.
McClean has a responsibility also not to. Inflame a situation, which I think he has done. This is not a victim being bullied ashe makes out. Maybe he should man up, and consider meeting in the middle. Maybe he shouldn't look at the ground in disgust when God saves the Queen comes on. Maybe he doesn't have to put his hand on his heart when they sing it, and maybe he doesn't have to sing it, but maybe he can meet in the middle, keep his chin high in a respectful way, to show some form of tiny respect along with his peaceful protest, and maybe meeting in the middle, instead of playing the victim is the way forward.

Yikes. This is terrible.

Hopefully. For what it’s worth I wasn’t all that keen on McClean’s comments about Sterling in the article. Sterling is rightly getting praise for taking on the media and opening the conversation wider. He should’ve just made the comparison and stopped there really.

Yeah I can understand that, he's rightfully upset about the whole situation and high-strung emotions can get the better of us sometimes.

 

[stevoc]

That's a slippery slope though surely, does his abuse not receive the same treatment because he's white or because of the specific issue at hand?
Otherwise if that were the case surely they wouldn't treat other white players who report incidents to them favourably either?

Probably yes i don't happen to actually think he's not being protected because he's white. I personally feel he's not being offered the same protection from this continued abuse largely because of who he is and where he's from. The fact he's white just makes it easier for the FA to ignore his situation.

He's not a popular figure within sections of the British media either who largely misunderstand and/or misrepresent him and his stance on the Poppy. No doubt that probably plays a part in the FA not wanting to be seen as too sympathetic towards him.

I'm also not familiar with other incidents of racism/sectarianism etc. being reports to the FA by other white players so i honestly couldn't say.

 

[Green_Red]

I live in England. I am white and I am Irish. I didn't wear a poppy last November and no one said shit to me. If they asked me why I didn't wear a poppy I would expect a very different response.

English people have no issue with Irish people in general from my direct experience. I'm sure many Irish living in England and on this forum will agree with that.

However if you position yourself in an opposing way to British culture you will get it. You can't expect them to treat their enemies fairly. Look at what they are doing to that girl who is a British citizen and went to fight for ISIS ffs...

McClean is naive if he expects it to be any other way when he has clearly sided with an enemy of the British state.

What he experiences is as a result of his political stance. I know he has the right to make that stance but if you decide to make the stance then stand like a man and take what's going to come your way.

Can you imagine Muhammad Ali whinging about racist abuse he received from the crowds... ridiculous carry on. What McClean and Sterlig suffer looks the same but isn't the same. It's a "I cant believe it's not racism" version of racism.

 

[stevoc]

Look if an English player played in League of Ireland and refused to stand for the national anthem, then he's gonna get dogs abuse by a small section of the crowd. Most normal fans won't give a flying toss whether he stands or not but you always get a few clowns that use identity and patriotism as a way to dump their childish hate on someone.
McClean has a responsibility also not to inflame a situation, which I think he has done. This is not a victim being bullied as he sometimes makes out. Maybe he should man up, and consider meeting in the middle. Maybe he shouldn't look at the ground in disgust when God saves the Queen comes on. Maybe he doesn't have to put his hand on his heart when they sing it, and maybe he doesn't have to sing it, but maybe he can meet in the middle, keep his chin high in a respectful way, to show some form of tiny respect along with his peaceful protest, and maybe meeting in the middle, instead of playing the victim, is the way forward.

Jesus. When did McClean refuse to stand for the English National Anthem?

 

[kouroux]

For the purposes of UK law, a racist hate crime covers:

A racial group means a group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality or ethnic or national origin. This includes:

• Gypsies and Travellers
• refugees and asylum seekers
• Jews and Sikhs

A religious group means a group of people who share the same religious belief such as Muslims, Hindus and Christians. It also includes people with no religious belief at all.

Cheers

 

[montpelier]

I live in England. I am white and I am Irish. I didn't wear a poppy last November and no one said shit to me. If they asked me why I didn't wear a poppy I would expect a very different response.

English people have no issue with Irish people in general from my direct experience. I'm sure many Irish living in England and on this forum will agree with that.

However if you position yourself in an opposing way to British culture you will get it. You can't expect them to treat their enemies fairly. Look at what they are doing to that girl who is a British citizen and went to fight for ISIS ffs...

McClean is naive if he expects it to be any other way when he has clearly sided with an enemy of the British state.

What he experiences is as a result of his political stance. I know he has the right to make that stance but if you decide to make the stance then stand like a man and take what's going to come your way.

Can you imagine Muhammad Ali whinging about racist abuse he received from the crowds... ridiculous carry on. What McClean and Sterlig suffer looks the same but isn't the same. It's a "I cant believe it's not racism" version of racism.

I think that's a very good post - although I may now slightly disagree with it.

But before that - racism is about skin-colour is it not? So that when people see the observable difference, unwarranted abuse ensues.

So, I go with political too really - for want of a better description anyway. Are the FA being a bit too nationalist/political/populist?

It's sad it's an issue for me. But I don't know what you can do about that.

 

[Sweet Square]

Ok I worded it badly. I meant it in that, racism against white people is glossed over and rarely highlighted in the news/society. Be it anti-Irish/Scottish/Welsh/English/Whites. It isn't really seen as a thing. You're just told to stop whining and get over it etc.

Perfect example is the Netflix show called 'Dear White People'. If you were to inverse the roles: white people criticising, discriminating, insulting and putting down black people and their culture... Would that be allowed in our current society? So i fail to see the difference.

I'm not surprised by it, but I think you should be able to call out these things.

Because of history and power.

While it's of course awful the abuse Mcclean is getting, it doesn't impact other white people or other white irish people in a institutionalized way. Mcclean getting abuse or a tv show called 'Dear White People' doesn't stop me(A Irish White Guy)getting a job, it doesn't get searched by the police, it doesn't cause the country to have a sterotype of me that that could cause harm to my life etc. In the past it would have, in particular for Irish people in the UK but in 2019 it doesn't.

 

[villain]

Probably yes i don't happen to actually think he's not being protected because he's white. I personally feel he's not being offered the same protection from this continued abuse largely because of who he is and where he's from. The fact he's white just makes it easier for the FA to ignore his situation.

He's not a popular figure within sections of the British media either who largely misunderstand and/or misrepresent him and his stance on the Poppy. No doubt that probably plays a part in the FA not wanting to be seen as too sympathetic towards him.

I'm also not familiar with other incidents of racism/sectarianism etc. being reports to the FA by other white players so i honestly couldn't say.

I think we're giving the FA way too much credit because for many years they have ignored incidents of racism reported by black players (not the high profile ones like Evra & Suarez or Terry & Ferdinand) so while I agree that his abuse shouldn't be getting ignored - it's more testament to The FA's overall uselessness, than intentional discrimination because of the colour of his skin, imo.
Sterling getting attention now only happened because he had to call the media & football organisations for their complicity on the matter of abuse received from fans, and unfair portrayals in the media. So for McClean to suggest that he is getting ignored simply because he's white oversimplifies the issue and ignores the years of idleness from the FA when it comes to appropriately responding to such issues.

 

[Righteous Steps]

I think we're giving the FA way too much credit because for many years they have ignored incidents of racism reported by black players (not the high profile ones like Evra & Suarez or Terry & Ferdinand) so while I agree that his abuse shouldn't be getting ignored - it's more testament to The FA's overall uselessness, than intentional discrimination because of the colour of his skin, imo.
Sterling getting attention now only happened because he had to call the media & football organisations for their complicity on the matter of abuse received from fans, and unfair portrayals in the media. So for McClean to suggest that he is getting ignored simply because he's white oversimplifies the issue and ignores the years of idleness from the FA when it comes to appropriately responding to such issues.

More so how many English people have Irish blood anyways, a good good percentage especially in the northern cities, a 2nd generation Irish wouldn’t have an accent that makes him distinguishable, a 2nd generation black person could sound as cockney as he wants but it’s still identifiably black, Mcclean bringing up Sterling as an example is silly, no need to compare.

 

[SteveJ]

'I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a... fraid....'

 

[stevoc]

I think we're giving the FA way too much credit because for many years they have ignored incidents of racism reported by black players (not the high profile ones like Evra & Suarez or Terry & Ferdinand) so while I agree that his abuse shouldn't be getting ignored - it's more testament to The FA's overall uselessness, than intentional discrimination because of the colour of his skin, imo.
Sterling getting attention now only happened because he had to call the media & football organisations for their complicity on the matter of abuse received from fans, and unfair portrayals in the media. So for McClean to suggest that he is getting ignored simply because he's white oversimplifies the issue and ignores the years of idleness from the FA when it comes to appropriately responding to such issues.

The FA have been useless on many levels for decades i agree. But he's been getting this abuse for years and years now everyone knows about it. Yet it largely goes unreported in the media and the FA are obviously not interested in doing anything about it.

I thought comparing his situation to Sterlings was ill thought out but he's 100% right in calling the FA out for their total inaction.

 

[westmeath]

"unrepentant terrorist mob" I can smell the FF/FG from here

No political affiliations at all. I prefer my politicians to have a big zero in the kill column, that’s all!

 

[Sweet Square]

More so how many English people have Irish blood anyways, a good good percentage especially in the northern cities, a 2nd generation Irish wouldn’t have an accent that makes him distinguishable, a 2nd generation black person could sound as cockney as he wants but it’s still identifiably black, Mcclean bringing up Sterling as an example is silly, no need to compare.

 

[villain]

More so how many English people have Irish blood anyways, a good good percentage especially in the northern cities, a 2nd generation Irish wouldn’t have an accent that makes him distinguishable, a 2nd generation black person could sound as cockney as he wants but it’s still identifiably black, Mcclean bringing up Sterling as an example is silly, no need to compare.

That's a great point.
Sterling getting recognition now shouldn't dim McCleans chance of getting recognition, he's not an enemy here and didn't need to be compared as such.

The FA have been useless on many levels for decades i agree. But he's been getting this abuse for years and years now everyone knows about it. Yet it largely goes unreported in the media and the FA are obviously not interested in doing anything about it.

I thought comparing his situation to Sterlings was ill thought out but he's 100% right in calling the FA out for their total inaction.

Yep I agree with that, he's absolutely right to call out the FA and hopefully they stop ignoring him now too.

 

[Green_Red]

I think that's a very good post - although I may now slightly disagree with it.

But before that - racism is about skin-colour is it not? So that when people see the observable difference, unwarranted abuse ensues.

So, I go with political too really - for want of a better description anyway. Are the FA being a bit too nationalist/political/populist?

It's sad it's an issue for me. But I don't know what you can do about that.

I feel like I'm about to argue both sides here but hopefully you get the argument I'm trying to make.

The abuse that McClean experiences is racially based but he doesn't receive it because hes Irish. As someone pointed out, English fans aren't picking every Irish player out and subjecting them to racism. He is not getting abused because he is Irish. He is getting abused because he has positioned himself publically in direct opposition to British identity and values. That is the reason.

What makes it all so ironic is he positioned himself in opposition whilst playing an English game, in England, for an English team, for English fans, whilst earning an English shilling. Like what does he expect?

Now I get that doesn't make the abuse right, it definitely doesn't, but what did he expect?

 

[Ramshock]

No political affiliations at all. I prefer my politicians to have a big zero in the kill column, that’s all!

FF and FG have no kills in their columns? check again

 

[westmeath]

FF and FG have no kills in their columns? check again

Not one current member of FF, FG, Labour Party, SD, PbP has a score in that column. Just the shinners. Anyway, this is a football board.......

 

[stevoc]

I feel like I'm about to argue both sides here but hopefully you get the argument I'm trying to make.

The abuse that McClean experiences is racially based but he doesn't receive it because hes Irish. As someone pointed out, English fans aren't picking every Irish player out and subjecting them to racism. He is not getting abused because he is Irish. He is getting abused because he has positioned himself publically in direct opposition to British identity and values. That is the reason.

Is that really the case though when you think about it?

Matic didn't seem to get as much abuse or negative coverage in the British media for refusing to wear one last year. So while you are right in that McClean is not getting abused simply for being Irish. But he is getting continued abuse for having the temerity to choose not to wear a Poppy while also being Irish. His nationality is definitely a massive part of it.

What makes it all so ironic is he positioned himself in opposition whilst playing an English game, in England, for an English team, for English fans, whilst earning an English shilling. Like what does he expect?

Now I get that doesn't make the abuse right, it definitely doesn't, but what did he expect?

For people to respect his decision not to wear a Poppy?

It is voluntary after all, or at least it used to be.

 

[Stookie]

Look if an English player played in League of Ireland and refused to stand for the national anthem, then he's gonna get dogs abuse by a small section of the crowd. Most normal fans won't give a flying toss whether he stands or not but you always get a few clowns that use identity and patriotism as a way to dump their childish hate on someone.
McClean has a responsibility also not to inflame a situation, which I think he has done. This is not a victim being bullied as he sometimes makes out. Maybe he should man up, and consider meeting in the middle. Maybe he shouldn't look at the ground in disgust when God saves the Queen comes on. Maybe he doesn't have to put his hand on his heart when they sing it, and maybe he doesn't have to sing it, but maybe he can meet in the middle, keep his chin high in a respectful way, to show some form of tiny respect along with his peaceful protest, and maybe meeting in the middle, instead of playing the victim, is the way forward.

Good post. He’s crying like he’s played no part in this.

 

[POF]

I think we're giving the FA way too much credit because for many years they have ignored incidents of racism reported by black players (not the high profile ones like Evra & Suarez or Terry & Ferdinand) so while I agree that his abuse shouldn't be getting ignored - it's more testament to The FA's overall uselessness, than intentional discrimination because of the colour of his skin, imo.
Sterling getting attention now only happened because he had to call the media & football organisations for their complicity on the matter of abuse received from fans, and unfair portrayals in the media. So for McClean to suggest that he is getting ignored simply because he's white oversimplifies the issue and ignores the years of idleness from the FA when it comes to appropriately responding to such issues.

It's also because English players were racially abused on international duty and it's hard to play the righteous indignation card when you ignore it on your own door step.

 

[cyberman]

Good post. He’s crying like he’s played no part in this.

Hes allowed to be a republican? You're making a massive statement about a large population of Northern Ireland with this post.

 

[SER19]

He’s right. The fa are cowards and cretins.... but talking of cretins, this lad takes some beating. If you’re going to be a gobshite, you’re going to cop some back.

This isn't his point though. I'm sure he's taken all sorts of abuse as coming with the territory. He's talking about a particular brand of xenophobic abuse, so unless you think his personality warrants 'some' racial abuse, your point needs to be clarified.

 

[DON’T PANIC ™]

There’s a side to him, that most people are completely unaware of.


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ess-came-to-the-rescue-of-his-home-town-89001

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....land-stoke-city-latest-news-a8666726.html?amp

 

[SER19]

There's a big undercurrent here of a broader problem we see in society, whereby people will advocate the individual rights of a person unconditionally..... When you share their belief, or determine it to be clearly morally correct to do. (eg sterling) when you don't share their beliefs (McLean) the conversation is left open to huge grey area about his personality, his particular brand of politics, and so on. Racial or xenophobic abuse is racial or xenophobic abuse whether you like the individual or not

 

[fergiesarmy1]

There's a big undercurrent here of a broader problem we see in society, whereby people will advocate the individual rights of a person unconditionally..... When you share their belief, or determine it to be clearly morally correct to do. (eg sterling) when you don't share their beliefs (McLean) the conversation is left open to huge grey area about his personality, his particular brand of politics, and so on. Racial or xenophobic abuse is racial or xenophobic abuse whether you like the individual or not

I dislike Ireland’s neutrality during ww2, doesn’t mean I dislike the paddies now. I have a few mates who speak peculiar

 

[The Don]

I dislike Ireland’s neutrality during ww2, doesn’t mean I dislike the paddies now. I have a few mates who speak peculiar

Ahh, fair play to ya boy. Aren't ye just great all together, hey?
Still though, you might be right about that time a bigoted, mysoginistic, racist, genocidal maniac, took on Hitler. Some boy, for one boy, he was hey!

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Ahh, fair play to ya boy. Aren't ye just great all together, hey?
Still though, you might be right about that time a bigoted, mysoginistic, racist, genocidal maniac, took on Hitler. Some boy, for one boy, he was hey!

Well I’d rather be living in this world thanks to Churchill than under the third reich if that’s what your inferring, maybe Ireland wouldn’t have got invaded after the uk had though..............

 

[Negan]

This bloke only shows up when it’s time to talk about poppy’s or the IRA.

Absolute bellend and this is coming from an Irish man myself.

 

[The Don]

Well I’d rather be living in this world thanks to Churchill than under the third reich if that’s what your inferring, maybe Ireland wouldn’t have got invaded after the uk had though..............

Thanks to America, you mean.

 

[The Don]

This bloke only shows up when it’s time to talk about poppy’s or the IRA.

Absolute bellend and this is coming from an Irish man myself.

Who?

 

[Grande]

Two wrongs make two wrongs.

 

[jimmyb2000]

Thanks to America, you mean.

More like thanks to Russia

 

[Rolandofgilead]

I think he’s spot on.

For the record I’m English and even I refuse to wear a poppy

 

[The Don]

More like thanks to Russia

Close enough.

 

[Mockney]

Here: