if that's true then you lot don't really want him
Harry Maguire | Signed
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So was Robertson and now he’s Denis Irwin reborn. It means nothing what they did before . The question will be if he moves to a bigger club can he step up?
Robertson comes across as an attacking Wingback. I think we can both agree that his contribution & therefore responsibility in defending is less than that of a CB whose also said to be a leader.
I am pretty sure that Maguire will improve at United if we surround him with better defenders. He already did that with Leicester this season. The amount of goals conceded had been reduced drastically although its still at par to Newcastle's and worse to football giants like Everton and Wolves. However, should an 80m rated player need such support? Or shouldn't he be making the difference in the same way Rio did when he came in a defence which was made up of Blanc, Wes and Mickey? I think the latter should be the case. An 80m rated defender should improve those around him rather then rely on better defenders to do better.
I also think that there's only one Denis Irwin.
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To be fair a center back should have more responsibility for the goals conceded than a fullback (especially in the modern interpretation of the role). Put Roberto Carlos in Hull's defense and their defensive record won't improve that much, but put Baresi there and suddenly they aren't leaking any unnecessary goals.
If true, and there is a lot I would be suspicious of, it’s quite ridiculous. This would mean we have completely ignored the valuation from last year
Whilst that is true, it’s also true to say that a player can be plucked from a shitty team and go on to become a much better player.
I just find the snobbyness of where a player comes from a bit irritating
That's not what I am doing. I don't mind for example if we add Tonali or Max Aarons IF the price is right. Same with Maguire really. However an 80m rated CB is expected to just slot in and take the defence to a higher level. I don't see that in Maguire.
If United signs him then I hope I'm wrong. If Shitty signs him then I hope I am right on all counts.
This is all well and good, I even agree with some of your points.
It was just worth pointing out how wrong you were about the amount of goals Leicester concede, as you were very much wrong.
They had a really good defensive record last season. They conceded less goals than us whilst many people would say we have the best goalkeeper around.
if we can get him for 50m + Andreas I am all for this deal.
Maguire is a strong leader at the back, good at bringing the ball out of the back, and very good in the air. His primary weakness is his lack of pace which worries me if we decide to play a high press.
Maguire is a strong leader at the back, good at bringing the ball out of the back, and very good in the air. His primary weakness is his lack of pace which worries me if we decide to play a high press.
One need to take things into context. Leicester's defence record last season wasn't bad and was a definitive improvement on previous years, however it was still at par to Newcastle's and worse then Wolves and Everton which lets face it isn't spectacular either. That wouldn't be an issue if Maguire would have costed us 30m, He who would act as cover/competitor for the first teamers bringing in on to the table some interesting characteristics that we need. Unfortunately we're talking of an 80m rated CB here, which means that the level of performance expected is way way higher then lets say Bailly's or Lindelof's at Villareal or Benfica. An 80m defender/leader is expected to just slot in, take ownership of defence and make the rest play better in the same way Rio did when he came to United
As said if Maguire was rated 30m-40m then I would say that we would be silly not to snap him. He's great in aerial dominance which we currently lack (only Smalling provides that) + while being slower then Smalling he compensate to that with a good distribution of the ball. I wouldn't mind seeing us going to 50m if our first teamer (aka Lindelof) was rapid. Maguire would provide the 'Vidic' role with Lindelof & AWB making sure to keep faster forwards at bay. However from what I've seen and from the stats there's absolutely nothing to suggest that he's an 80m rated CB.
I wasn’t just referring to this tbh, it’s an attitude I’ve seen all summer
He would be our best defender and certainly will improve us. The price is what it takes to buy a good, experienced defender nowadays.
Prem clubs will always ask for premium. AWB is 50m+ after one good season. Diop is 60m+, Napoli ask 100m+ for Koulibally.
Who would you bring instead of Maguire that would improve us on less of that amount?
You can go on the AWB thread and you'll notice I am quite a fan of his. My issue here is more towards the club rather then towards the specific players. We have 50+ scouts at this club and an entire season to identify our flaws and to find ways how to fix things around. The fact that we ended up with an 80m rated Maguire as our main target is infuriating especially since he was the same player Mou had suggested in the first place.
I sometimes wonder whose the feck is managing this club. I mean even an 14 year old knows that the likes of Koulibaly and Maguire would cost us a bomb. So since we've got too many positions to fill which makes it ridiculous to spend 80m-100m on 1 player then why on earth did we didn't find alternative players in the first place?
@devilish again, I don't disagree with you that he isn't worth 80 million, but your comment about them conceding more goals than the titanic leaks water was idiotic.
He can stay at Leicester for that amount.
We are well detached of reality if we think we could get him for 40m.
Makes sense. Only concern is about our alternate options. If not KK or Maguire , who else ? Hope they do have a list with them. I am perfectly fine not signing Maguire for 90m but we should have an alternate option ready.
Then avoid EPL clubs. It is that simple.
I am not one of the 50+ scouts United employ to unearth hidden gems like Koulibaly, Toby and Maguire. However even I can name players who would probably be as good as Maguire is for us and who is younger & cheaper. One of which is Joachim Andersen who currently plays with Sampdoria.
You dont know what we offered. They probably are asking 100m and we are on 60.
they usually do.
Ed and Ole might disagree as this is the plan they are promoting so far - proper Brexit strategy.
There are many excellent players from the continent usually half than what we're quoted for Premiership talent, but seems we're not in the market for them.
So far the viable reports have linked us (and signed) James, Longstuff, Maguire, AWB, Tielemans, Rice, Diop... It's clear the direction we're going.
Report says 80m.
Not sure why Maguire would come.
Its completely possible that leicester have a better team than us next season
Schmeichel > Romero
Pieira > Young
Maguire > Lindelof
Evans = Smalling
Chilwell < Shaw
Ndidi > Matic
Tielemans > Fred/McTomminay
Maddison < Pogba?????
Gray = Martial
Vardy > Rashford
Albrighton > Whichever option we have for RW
Its completely possible that leicester have a better team than us next season
Schmeichel > Romero
Pieira > Young
Maguire > Lindelof
Evans = Smalling
Chilwell < Shaw
Ndidi > Matic
Tielemans > Fred/McTomminay
Maddison < Pogba?????
Gray = Martial
Vardy > Rashford
Albrighton > Whichever option we have for RW
Suspect if you had offered 80m (Without trying to include some basket cases) he would be yours now.
What has happened to your academy production line? Surely if you were planning to reduce or foresaw a drop in the academy output, the scouting side would have been ramped up?
They finished 14 points behind United last season.
I very much doubt that after Brexit all foreign players will be expected to leave. That would be ridiculous and something no one apart from ourselves are considering. Its more plausible to believe that our 50+ scouts had spent the summer dilly dallying in the same way their boss did regarding the technical director role. Now that crap hit fan our board is forced to rely on the players the manager knows about and wants which is probably a very small pool of players.
Some are more achievable than others (some will be valued very high, others not so much). But i'd be looking at the below list. All players aged 25 or younger with substantial minutes last season and all comfortable on the ball.
Jonathan Tah - Bayer Leverkusen
Manuel Akanji - Borussia Dortmund
Nico Elvedi - Borussia M.Gladbach
Milan Skriniar - Inter
Matthias Ginter - Borussia M.Gladbach
Jason Denayer - Lyon
Joachim Andersen - Sampdoria
Alessio Romagnoli - AC Milan
Benoit Badiashile Mukinayi - Monaco
Jules Koundé - Bordeaux
Diego Llorente - Real Sociedad
Boubacar Kamara - Marseille
Mario Hermoso - Espanyol
Kaan Ayhan - Fortuna Duesseldorf
Ruben Dias - Benfica
Yeah that goes without saying.
One thing is clear - so far we have only linked with Koulibally and De Ligt. Both are close to no go.
Apart from them it's mainly Premiership players. If we look at it in this direction can't see which Premiership defender (that is available) can improve us more than Maguire...
Which kind of strengthens my theory that we're relying on Ole's/Phelan's possibly ridiculously small pool of transfer targets. Ole himself said that we've been linked with players he had never even heard about let alone be interested in. Which is kind of silly considering that this club need to fill alot of positions, it has a limited budget and it currently employs 50+ scouts
It has been really poor lately. Poorly coached and generally managed. We are even in 2nd division now and couldn't even get near promotion. We have some talent coming through the ranks but so far haven't really exploited it properly. Generally it reflects the state of the club.
Around 70m IMO would be enough. Looking at your roster and if you can manage to maintain Tielemans I wouldn't hold it against you finishing above us.
Yeah, but what can you do?
It's not like this direction will change in the next 6 weeks. We're stuck with what we've got.
They have a good manager now.
We need to shape up fast to stay above even the likes of these.
Sad state of affairs, is it since the Glazers took over? Or is it a longer term problem?
You may be right regarding the 70m, but I cannot see whats happened obviously, as most fans can`t, so its difficult to tell.
Hope we get Youri, but your interest is causing a few sweaty palms! (if it is not just paper talk). I hope the exchange of Adrien Silva as part of the deal will help us (As Jardim is a fan), but guess we will see (eventually). Also think it would be better for him to come to us, as watching Man Utd from the outside, it just seems quite unstable/unknown/odd, but you are still a colossus of a club, which may well turn him (or his agent) to you.
Plus £££ always helps!
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Well someone should tell this rookie to trust his scouts more. After all they have way more experience then someone who proved to be out of depth at cardiff
Neither Pep nor Klopp could have kept that Cardiff team afloat and he was there for a few months, this is seriously flogging a dead horse now. He has been coaching/managing for over 10 years and has won league titles and cup competitions and proven tactically aware playing in European competition against stronger sides. The continual dismissal of what he achieved at Molde smacks of snobbery at best and xenophobia at worst. Ole is qualified for the job, if you think he and not Ed is the problem then there is really no hope for you and you might as well just focus on following Juventus.
Honestly i think it's both, the former being a knee jerk decision taken by the latter. Anyway even Sir alex trusted his scouts. If Ole can't do that then he will be at Molde winning world renowned league titles and trophies by january
Nah it was a steep decline. Ever since McClair was replaced by Butt and he brought again Sbragia.
Under McGuinness and McKenna we were still producing talents and were really playing well. But after they left and McKenna got promoted both reserves and U-18 imploded.
We might have genuine interest in Tielemans, but our approach is pretty scattered so far. If you act quickly I can see you getting him back. I agree on you that it's probably the better place for him, but to me we also need him and generally will give him playing time and opportunity to develop further.
I'm sure Ed is preparing his 40m + 40m add-on's offer as we speak
I really don't understand the Maguire situation really. He's bang average - he just is. Anyone thinking he's top class is deluded.
The valuation being discussed is baffling. This whole 'new market' thing is bogus, it had its peak of inflated prices shortly after Neymar with the likes of Coutinho, van Djik, Dembele etc. Maguire is not worth more than £50m so that just needs to be put out there. If we are going to be forced to fork out £80m+ then Koulibaly is at least a level above Maguire IMO and worth the extra money. If we are at all in the argument to sign De Ligt then obviously he should be the one we try to get anyway. If Diop is £45m~ and we get to offload Rojo, Jones, or Bailly as part of the deal then I'd take that too. Lastly, I'd personally rather just take Alderweireld for a couple of years for £25m if we're talking these silly prices for worse defenders.
However, can anyone actually come up with a reason as why it would be Maguire? It was said last season that Maguire wasn't any better than what we had and Mourinho was shut down in wanting to buy him (if this is true). Why are we going to go and sign players Mourinho told us to sign after he's already been sacked? Baffling. I actually agree with the original diagnosis that Maguire is not any better than Lindelof and Smalling. You don't spend £80m on a player who isn't guaranteed to be better than your two first choice players in his position.
The valuation being discussed is baffling. This whole 'new market' thing is bogus, it had its peak of inflated prices shortly after Neymar with the likes of Coutinho, van Djik, Dembele etc. Maguire is not worth more than £50m so that just needs to be put out there. If we are going to be forced to fork out £80m+ then Koulibaly is at least a level above Maguire IMO and worth the extra money. If we are at all in the argument to sign De Ligt then obviously he should be the one we try to get anyway. If Diop is £45m~ and we get to offload Rojo, Jones, or Bailly as part of the deal then I'd take that too. Lastly, I'd personally rather just take Alderweireld for a couple of years for £25m if we're talking these silly prices for worse defenders.
However, can anyone actually come up with a reason as why it would be Maguire? It was said last season that Maguire wasn't any better than what we had and Mourinho was shut down in wanting to buy him (if this is true). Why are we going to go and sign players Mourinho told us to sign after he's already been sacked? Baffling. I actually agree with the original diagnosis that Maguire is not any better than Lindelof and Smalling. You don't spend £80m on a player who isn't guaranteed to be better than your two first choice players in his position.
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