I have been ridiculously negative on united for months but I am excited with the season coming up and really looking forward to see if we can build something new . Having said that i have to say that the OP is absolutely wrong and it is ridiculous to blame the fans for anything that is wrong with this club.
United's biggest problem - Our spoiled and overly entitled fan base
- Thread starter Wumminator
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The "top reds" definitely disappear in between the moaning. There can be a middle ground and imo the club is not in such a state many others seem to think.
The constant negativity on this forum has made it easier for me to take a step back anyway.
You were very dismissive of Mourinho before he joined iirc despite being very tolerant of Moyes (and to a lesser extent, LvG).
There are numerous examples of negative threads from you under Mourinho in comparison to the other managers.
http://www.redcafe.net/threads/where-would-we-be-without-david-de-gea.437132/
http://www.redcafe.net/threads/do-s...form-villainise-or-vindicate-mourinho.442357/
http://www.redcafe.net/threads/what-does-it-look-like-to-be-a-united-fan-at-this-point.443264/
Obviously "Most negative on here" is an exaggeration but it's safe to say that how positive you are fluctuates massively depending on which manager is in charge.
Although tbf you were a bit more positive about him when we were actually doing quite well. Funny that
On that first quote I meant prioritize marketing for commercial success rather than what matters to a football club, which is winning titles.
It does insinuate the bolded. If he or the management did care about the part that concerns the fans, he would have hired a footballing man to take charge of the footballing matters rather than he himself to make decisions he isn't competent for. In the last 6 years we have been in a constant downfall but as long as the Glazers pocket the club's money he won't change anything and appoint a DoF.
And that quote is the one I could find the quickest. I'm sure if I bother to search for more I can find countless of stupid indicators of a banker leading a football club.
There's a constant moaning and negativity but what did you expect after that season we had and the scousers winning the CL on top of it? Fans are tired and I for one can't come around to be optimistic for our future under these leeches.
Hot on the tails of Lingard, keep going.
Thank you for linking to those threads. Even though they're hardly positive, I stand by making those threads and think they have aged very well. I don't think I was being overly negative but trying to heighten the level of discourse on the forum.You were very dismissive of Mourinho before he joined iirc despite being very tolerant of Moyes (and to a lesser extent, LvG).
There are numerous examples of negative threads from you under Mourinho in comparison to the other managers.
http://www.redcafe.net/threads/where-would-we-be-without-david-de-gea.437132/
http://www.redcafe.net/threads/do-shaw-and-martial’s-run-of-form-villainise-or-vindicate-mourinho.442357/
http://www.redcafe.net/threads/what-does-it-look-like-to-be-a-united-fan-at-this-point.443264/
Obviously "Most negative on here" is an exaggeration but it's safe to say that how positive you are fluctuates massively depending on which manager is in charge.
Although tbf you were a bit more positive about him when we were actually doing quite well. Funny that
Our fan base are too soft in the club. Other big teams wouldn't stand for the shit six years we had.
Also fans don't affect how we play or how we are run. If we did we wouldn't be shite.
Also fans don't affect how we play or how we are run. If we did we wouldn't be shite.
My main point was that every fan, you included, is negative when a certain person or situation occurs at the club. You hated us appointing Mourinho and expressed it very vocally up until he signing, didn't you? So what gives you the right to give out about negative fans now who don't think ole is the right fit or think we're making the right transfers? Is it OK for you to do it just because Mourinho is a dick and Ole is a club legend, despite Mourinho clearly being a better manager, albeit the wrong fit for the club?
Your whole op just stinks of "top-reddism", you and the likes of Dobba were negative about Mourinho yet expect everyone else to be positive about our current, much more dire situation because ... eh... it's Ole?
Mourinho was despised for his manner. Regardless of his (now obviously lacking) managerial ability, it was the fact he’d physically assaulted others, lacked the personality befitting such a prestigious role and also had made demeaning sexist comments prior to being hired. Obviously those attributes will turn off some people. If he was a polite respectful man it would have been completely different.
I mean really a fan can either be deluded or not, and I'm in the 'not deluded' camp where if I see a club being ran completely shambolicly I'll say it and be rightfully outraged by it.
I fear OP has a faith and optimism to get behind the team but my only fear is turning into a delusion that will be hard to come out from if the club comtinue to make really stupid idiotic decisions.
As a grown man I try not get caught up with the whole die for your club and back your club whatever romanticism attitide cause for me its a whole load of tosh and thats just a personal opionion, id like to think we can still criticize in a acceptable way and not be called spoilt, I'd love them to successful again but mainly all I really want is to be challenging again. But the club is a business too and it's ran so badly.
But the main question is, if we are not challenging again next year and we find ourselves in a similar position again like this year (which imo is still a realistic outcome) will the OP still be going on about backing the club? Won't it be better to just focus on the why? Rather than the fans....
I fear OP has a faith and optimism to get behind the team but my only fear is turning into a delusion that will be hard to come out from if the club comtinue to make really stupid idiotic decisions.
As a grown man I try not get caught up with the whole die for your club and back your club whatever romanticism attitide cause for me its a whole load of tosh and thats just a personal opionion, id like to think we can still criticize in a acceptable way and not be called spoilt, I'd love them to successful again but mainly all I really want is to be challenging again. But the club is a business too and it's ran so badly.
But the main question is, if we are not challenging again next year and we find ourselves in a similar position again like this year (which imo is still a realistic outcome) will the OP still be going on about backing the club? Won't it be better to just focus on the why? Rather than the fans....
So in your eyes, purely because Ole is polite and respectful, we should be nothing but positive right now?
I don't give a feck if people find it frustrating, getting bent out of shape on rumours everyday is stupid. Criticize the Glazers and Woodward all you want ofcourse, but being negative and moaning about everything is ridiculous.
I agree with the OP. You're all tits.
How can you blame the fans after so many years of shite and most of all our lack of direction. The football we've seen these past 6 years is the most boring shit ever.
He dodged your question alright
Buying a RB and a youngster isn’t going to get us anywhere next season.
Being strongly linked with Langstaff who yet again is another gamble. Where has all the money gone? Why aren’t we out there acting like the massive club that we are?
We had a net spend of around £30m last season on players. That isn’t good enough. And to sit there and see so many United fans just happy because supporting your club is the thing to do just makes it so much worse. You are the ones that are the problem. You turn up to games no matter how shit we are, buy a season ticket without thinking, buy next season’s shirt with Pogba printed on the back. You are the reason the Glazers will never leave, just like Mike Ashley, just like Stan Kronke. There are too many fan that buy into the club without any return. No other fan base of a club our size puts up with so much crap. Until fans make a stand against the way the club is run we will continue on this downward spiral of obscurity.
Being strongly linked with Langstaff who yet again is another gamble. Where has all the money gone? Why aren’t we out there acting like the massive club that we are?
We had a net spend of around £30m last season on players. That isn’t good enough. And to sit there and see so many United fans just happy because supporting your club is the thing to do just makes it so much worse. You are the ones that are the problem. You turn up to games no matter how shit we are, buy a season ticket without thinking, buy next season’s shirt with Pogba printed on the back. You are the reason the Glazers will never leave, just like Mike Ashley, just like Stan Kronke. There are too many fan that buy into the club without any return. No other fan base of a club our size puts up with so much crap. Until fans make a stand against the way the club is run we will continue on this downward spiral of obscurity.
Exactly, our issues are relative. United is currently a big club with decent results but it's also a club that aspire for far more mainly due to its financial might. In many ways, we are comparable to Real Madrid in the period between Zidane and Ronaldo, with the small difference that the PL has more teams close to our current level and essentially one that has been far better. The issue with the hysteria is that in the context of striving for elite football the complains that some fans have are totally fair but it goes too far when they start believing that United has been terrible.
The reality is that only Moyes has had terrible results, the other managers haven't been as good as we hoped but reaching/competing for Top 4, winning cups, winning the Europa League is far from terrible. We shouldn't be satisfied with it but we shouldn't meltdown either.
I agree with the entire post more or less, except for the point where you say we're operating in the right way, where I feel we need a DoF.
Our fans have lost the ability to think rationally and anything we do is met with moans and groans. We sign a superstar- and our response is "He's just here for the money. How many times have we tried this in the last few years and this tactic has failed miserably". We sign a youth player:" Other teams are buying from Bayerns and Madrids, whereas we are buying from Championship sides". We sign a free agent/get a bargain and that is met with "Glazers are just trying to save money."
We gave managers the freedom to sign players and then we abused the club of not thinking for the future, not having a long term plan. When Ed refused (and rightly so) the transfer exits of Shaw, Pogba and Martial and arrivals of Willian, Boateng and the likes, we abused the club of interfering in the manager's job.
For someone on the outside, it's near impossible to understand what our fans even want. We've become so obsessed with hating the club and the owners that anything the club does, a player or a manager does is seen with skepticism like "Donating 1% of salary for Common Goal- He's just saving tax".
Look at Ole's example. For the first time since post Fergie, the manager is signing players looking at the long term. The players who will be here for years irrespective who the manager is 10 years later unlike signings of Matic, Ibra, Schweinsteiger, etc. who were short term fixes. At the very least, the side he'll leave behind is not going to be looking at a major overhaul because half the side is in 30s or on the wrong side of the age curve.
Our fans have lost the ability to think rationally and anything we do is met with moans and groans. We sign a superstar- and our response is "He's just here for the money. How many times have we tried this in the last few years and this tactic has failed miserably". We sign a youth player:" Other teams are buying from Bayerns and Madrids, whereas we are buying from Championship sides". We sign a free agent/get a bargain and that is met with "Glazers are just trying to save money."
We gave managers the freedom to sign players and then we abused the club of not thinking for the future, not having a long term plan. When Ed refused (and rightly so) the transfer exits of Shaw, Pogba and Martial and arrivals of Willian, Boateng and the likes, we abused the club of interfering in the manager's job.
For someone on the outside, it's near impossible to understand what our fans even want. We've become so obsessed with hating the club and the owners that anything the club does, a player or a manager does is seen with skepticism like "Donating 1% of salary for Common Goal- He's just saving tax".
Look at Ole's example. For the first time since post Fergie, the manager is signing players looking at the long term. The players who will be here for years irrespective who the manager is 10 years later unlike signings of Matic, Ibra, Schweinsteiger, etc. who were short term fixes. At the very least, the side he'll leave behind is not going to be looking at a major overhaul because half the side is in 30s or on the wrong side of the age curve.
If the fans that are raging right now are glory hunters, they can easily switch clubs.But the reality they are protesting is the complete opposite of ehat you are suggesting, it means they care for the club, they are winners and will not settle for mediocrity. Fans like the ones who thinks "the raging fans are spoiled brats" are a big problem and the ones that made teams like Everton deteriorate till the point off no return and accept mediocrity.
Couldn’t disagree more. If anything, our fan base doesn’t demand enough. We have the potential to literally be the most powerful club in the world. We should be one of the dominant teams in England and certainly not where we are now.
The "top red" thing has got to stop too. Nobody calls themselves top reds, it's used as an insult by anyone who feels the other supporter is too positive.
A thread that literally has been only been created to try to make the OP somehow look superior to other fans of the club. Of course people have grown annoyed. Naturally they are trying to do something about it. If you don’t like it you don’t have to look at it.
And please. The line about people never going to games being behind all of the protests? Are you Mancunian - if you were you would know where this has been coming from for years, and as a globally supported club each and every fan has a right to their opinion.
And please. The line about people never going to games being behind all of the protests? Are you Mancunian - if you were you would know where this has been coming from for years, and as a globally supported club each and every fan has a right to their opinion.
I Agree
I think its strange transfers were mentioned in the OP. I mean yes its great we spending unlike other teams such as Arsenal and we should be happy, but really its much much more than that.
OP needs to think that transfers shouldn't by itself gurantee we will be better so don't use that as a sign of optimism. Transfers a highly risky, we bought potential and we bought ready made stars before and they turned out to be flops. Nothing is guranteed.
We do need to sign players, we need more and time will tell but more importantly before tatgetting the fans firstly see if the board has really put a plan in place this time to direct us where we need to be, a proper footballing plan. Thats still way up in the air especially since we dont have a DOF yet and running under Ed.
Only time will tell.
You need your head checked if you think the fans are this club's biggest problem.
The main issue with fans is the lack of belief in the club's direction. Would help if the club were better at communication but they just don't care.
Haven't said that, I agree there needs to be some patience.
The main issue with fans is the lack of belief in the club's direction. Would help if the club were better at communication but they just don't care.
Haven't said that, I agree there needs to be some patience.
Dont think it is our fanbase alone. I am pretty sure all fans are like that, at least in football. Add to that we have a big following and attract people from all over the world, it is only logical that online you meet lunatics, especially in desperate times. Welcome to 2019, and it wont get better.
On the pitch issues have nothing to do with fans, our biggest issues are the board, coaching staff and players. The fans make the whole shit experience just worse.
On the pitch issues have nothing to do with fans, our biggest issues are the board, coaching staff and players. The fans make the whole shit experience just worse.
Agreed. In Madrid there would have been white flags waving already back in 2014.
I wanted to disagree but I thought OP makes a lot of good points here. However, I think he is over-estimating the impact of ‘the lower half of the internet’ (as Dave Gorman calls it) and the influence they have. Comments on a twitter post, just like comments on this forum, hold no sway whatsoever over the runnings of the club.
What would enable people to say the fans are spoiling the club is if there were mass-demos from fans about signing or not signing certain players. Demonstrations at games, booing, personal attacks on Woody etc. all of which we haven’t really seen.
What would enable people to say the fans are spoiling the club is if there were mass-demos from fans about signing or not signing certain players. Demonstrations at games, booing, personal attacks on Woody etc. all of which we haven’t really seen.
So it's all our fault Apparently if we don't agree with club's decisions we are not true fans. If we think Ole is not the man to take us back on the perch - we are stupid impatient kids. If we are sick seeing same crap mediocre players like Young, Lingard, Darmian, Rojo, Jones stay at the club for years, we are impatient because these "deals take time". And how can anyone have doubts about signing a player from Championship? No REAL United fan would.
I think the biggest problem is fans like you who believe every shite coming from Ed's mouth and sing "Ole's at the wheel" non stop for 90 mins no matter how shit and disgraceful we are at times. You are completely fine at being 6th best team in England because "it takes time". Our manager says that we should be worried about the teams below us instead of above us is absolutely fine as it's the process and finishing a few seasons 8-10 is acceptable. And then the same people can't stop talking about how we are the biggest club in the world. Incredible.
Apparently if we don't agree with club's decisions we are not true fans. If we think Ole is not the man to take us back on the perch - we are stupid impatient kids. If we are sick seeing same crap mediocre players like Young, Lingard, Darmian, Rojo, Jones stay at the club for years, we are impatient because these "deals take time". And how can anyone have doubts about signing a player from Championship? No REAL United fan would. I think the biggest problem is fans like you who believe every shite coming from Ed's mouth and sing "Ole's at the wheel" non stop for 90 mins no matter how shit and disgraceful we are at times. You are completely fine at being 6th best team in England because "it takes time". Our manager says that we should be worried about the teams below us instead of above us is absolutely fine as it's the process and finishing a few seasons 8-10 is acceptable. And then the same people can't stop talking about how we are the biggest club in the world. Incredible.
No, it's mainly a thing with fans of big successful clubs. Clubs where winning trophies and busy tranfer windows are the norm which isn't the case for most clubs.
Wumminator trying to be the voice of reason? This is such an embarrassing forum.
lulzies
lulzies
I agree with you . We might be spending money but we have been spending money in a scattered crazy way the past 6 years . That is nothing to try and be positive about. We might pay the most in wages but that is nothing to be positive about . It shows the people running the club do not really have a plan. Our signings over that period show we have no plan no strategy ! I do agree we have to back Ole because he deserves time to make it better but to blame fans for being impatient is pathetic. Are we meant to sit back and say nothing while these Americans are pushing our club downwards
I think it's the level of posting on the forum has deteriorated which is the main issue @Wumminator
People enjoy moaning on the internet, it allows them to be negative and get shit off their chest by ranting. But the sheer quantity of it in the last 6 years has worn down many of the regulars on here. If you don't conform with the popular opinion of the day you get flamed, there are very few of these negative posters who actually argue in a logical and respectful way. Instead just write a quick one/two sentence reply with laughing smilies and a condenscending tone.
Seems funny given your past history that you're one of the more sensible posters on here these days Wumm.
People enjoy moaning on the internet, it allows them to be negative and get shit off their chest by ranting. But the sheer quantity of it in the last 6 years has worn down many of the regulars on here. If you don't conform with the popular opinion of the day you get flamed, there are very few of these negative posters who actually argue in a logical and respectful way. Instead just write a quick one/two sentence reply with laughing smilies and a condenscending tone.
Seems funny given your past history that you're one of the more sensible posters on here these days Wumm.
And I guess most of these fans are under twenty-five... doesn't bode well for the clubs future fan base does it?
Oh lawrd.You've sort of just confirmed the point of the OP's post. Yeah the football hasn't been great most of the time but we still won more than Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs in the last 6 years. It was only with the CL win that Klopp has finally redeemed himself. Our fans are self-entitled and spoiled. If we don't beat Chelsea at the start of the season, there will be fans shouting for Ole out, I can guarantee it.
I kid you not, he answered with yes on that question. Yep this whole thread is on WUM mode on.
Kind of half agree with OP.
There does also seem to be a bit of an agenda from the media at the moment as well. Every day on talksport United are being discussed negatively: graveyard for young players, AWB cost too much, James not good enough, Ole not good enough etc etc.
United are always the biggest draw regardless of how poor they are, who would have thought City just won a domestic treble, the kopites a champs league. No one is talking about them because no one cares, United are bigger news.
All the doom and gloom is over egged and peddled by the media, its no where near as bad as its being reported.
There are issues at the club but there are issues at every other club that don't get highlighted because it's not Manchester United.
There does also seem to be a bit of an agenda from the media at the moment as well. Every day on talksport United are being discussed negatively: graveyard for young players, AWB cost too much, James not good enough, Ole not good enough etc etc.
United are always the biggest draw regardless of how poor they are, who would have thought City just won a domestic treble, the kopites a champs league. No one is talking about them because no one cares, United are bigger news.
All the doom and gloom is over egged and peddled by the media, its no where near as bad as its being reported.
There are issues at the club but there are issues at every other club that don't get highlighted because it's not Manchester United.