pissing play in sex or something even kinkier
Gay footballers | Czech Republic international Jakub Jankto comes out as gay
- Thread starter Pablo76
- Start date
wait a professional athlete got beaten up by a 16 year old?
I think it should be kept in mind that coming out is ultimately something that you do for yourself - not for bigots. For that reason, I don't really think someone's method of coming out should be evaluated based on how effective it would be at combating homophobia. If someone wants to formally come out very publicly and use their platform to push change a la Rapinoe, that's okay, and if someone wants to live their life quite privately like O'Hara, that's okay too.
you'd never see that happen to someone who played a real sport
Rubbish post. People in general do plenty of daft things out of stupidity/wanting attention/any other reason. And, a few stray incidents of poor behaviour aside (which is human nature not gay human nature), the minority communities are always fighting for their right to exist and have an equal standing, and a good portion of the 'majority', I find, completely fail to empathize with their struggles which is where a large part of the problem starts. They really wouldn't have to go through as much as they do and hence lash back at times, if they weren't treated so dismissively, abusively, mockingly etc by others.
In a real sport it's normally the other way around https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/30916435
soccer isnt a real sport either
Does it matter. What a person does in his bed, with whom, shouldn't matter in any work place.
While in an ideal place, everything should have been transparent and every gay person should have been openly gay, but sorry we don't live in an ideal world.
Our world is filled with people who are spektical of the homosexuals, and this attitude will take time to go off. And calling people homophobes and attacking them for their insecurities is the not the answer.
I had know a gay guy, who used to study with us in high school.
Some of the guys in my group in the school, used to avoid them, the mere thing I did was talk with that gay guy, had him hangout with us and all those guys who used to avoid him, after a time started talking, chatting and joking with that guy
. So I think rather than criticising people who aren't comfortable with homosexuals, normalization of gay people, homosexuality is more important.
While in an ideal place, everything should have been transparent and every gay person should have been openly gay, but sorry we don't live in an ideal world.
Our world is filled with people who are spektical of the homosexuals, and this attitude will take time to go off. And calling people homophobes and attacking them for their insecurities is the not the answer.
I had know a gay guy, who used to study with us in high school.
Some of the guys in my group in the school, used to avoid them, the mere thing I did was talk with that gay guy, had him hangout with us and all those guys who used to avoid him, after a time started talking, chatting and joking with that guy
. So I think rather than criticising people who aren't comfortable with homosexuals, normalization of gay people, homosexuality is more important.
Perhaps you misjudge other people's intentions and I'm sorry if you think that way. You can't always read someone's tone over the internet. Is it not normal to ask further questions regarding one's views and thought processes during a discussion? Is it not normal for one with strong opinions to be willing to address comments and queries regarding their reasoning process? Why do you see the need to avoid answering such questions to further the discussion and instead use ad hominem remarks?
Not sure if serious, but I’ve heard this racial inference made before and I’ve never understood it - a quick search reveals what I suspected: that the expression predates the racist slur (spade). So why do people insist on it being a racist term? Sorry to derail!It is good that you are against homophobia but I think you need to review you use of race based language
You're right that the origin of the phrase had nothing to do with race, but in the early 20th century it became heavily associated with racial slurs. Certainly not the first word or phrase that has changed meaning over time. But to say now in 2019 it's not seen as offensive by some would be wrong. lots of info here
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/09/19/224183763/is-it-racist-to-call-a-spade-a-spade
It's subjective I guess, but there's no arguing this one
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...aneepong-jongjit-at-canada-open-29455441.html
Wow, I always thought that phrase was a card reference of some sort. The racist connection seems to be a regional slang and doesn't relate to some worldwide usage of the term, or am I wrong in thinking that?
Honestly, it would have been the last thing on my mind in terms of meaning, but I'm not native to the English language and have heard the phrase being used in many movies or TV series, I've seen it in books as well.
No of course it is seen as racist; hence my inquiry. But I still don't see why. I mean there are a number of other terms that we could suddenly deem racist by simply looking at one word in the term.
A chink in the armour; to nip it in the bud; to dance a jig; spooky; etc.
I was 100% joking mate. Thus the winking emoji.
Honestly don’t know why, but language evolves and meanings change. A good example is the word faggot, originally means a bunch of sticks, then a few hundred years ago it became a way of referring to old women in a derogatory way, a bit like old hag I guess, nowadays we all know it’s meaning and it’s not a nice word to use. Why has that happened and chink in the armour has not evolved like that ... who knows but it has.
What do you reckon the gay camp will shove down our throats next? Metaphorically, of course. We aren’t actual gays.
I specifically said that I'm sure that there are many enlightened and mature people in Eastern Europe, but that considering the number of quite explicit racist incidents that have occurred in this part of the world (which is a fact) it wouldn't hugely surprise me if other forms of bigotry are also prevalent.
I don't really feel making this assertion requires a huge amount of insight or historical knowledge, but it is common knowledge that racism is a problem at football grounds in Eastern Europe. For example, here's an article from April:
https://www.straitstimes.com/sport/...ith-racism-after-french-ligue-1-abuse-adds-to
And this article from 2016 in The Independent:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...urope-azerbaijan-russia-armenia-a7024416.html
The 15 least gay-friendly countries in Europe are Italy, Macedonia, Poland, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Latvia, San Marino, Moldova, Belarus, Ukraine, Monaco, Turkey, Armenia, Russia and Azerbaijan - so they're virtually all in Eastern Europe.
So I feel perfectly confident in any assertion that I made, and I can also quite confidently state that not many gay people would choose to live in Eastern Europe. I'm also aware, as I said in the OP, that there are many people in Eastern Europe that revile bigotry, but the reality is that at this point in time it remains a major issue in this part of the world.
Wouldn't be surprised to know that that 16 year old looks like a 28 year old with all the hormones in food these days
You'll still hear the phrase used completely normally across the UK. It's not really considered racist unless you say it with that intent. Likewise @The Boy 's example, if you ask for a faggot in many parts of the UK you'll get a weird meatball like thing, and if you ask for a fag you'll be given a cigarette. It depends on the context in which it's used.
This thread..I just..
And do you know the reasons why this region is like that? It's a very complex problem, the homophobia really exists and comes mainly from a certain set of these "football" hooligans, who mostly are actually connected to proper mafia shit, at least in my country it is like that. They are ignorant Nazis that use the occasions to show their ignorance and our dumb government is too entangled into behind the curtains shenanigans so they don't want to do anything effective about them.
What people don't understand is that many of the nations in this part of the world have suffered oppression by foreign hands for centuries, so people still have a huge problem that outside forces dictate our way of life and we are still one of the poorest in the whole world, despite being members of the EU, NATO and what not. My country was conquered and enslaved by the Ottoman empire for around 500 years, we got out freedom in 1878 and our Independence in 1908. I had ancestors that were part of literal massacres, the great-grandmother of my grandfather miraculously survived the Batak massacre as a kid by being under a pile of human corpses with an elder relative - that was during our war for freedom, more specifically due to the "April uprising" of 1876. A lot of people still can't get over the fact that the West was mostly on the side of the Ottomans, whilst now they dictate a lot of our internal and foreign policies, not to mention that our fate after WW2 was decided in that famous meeting between Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt (the Yalta conference), and we were left for dead to be under the hammer of the totalitarian Soviet Union for 45 years.
It's not an excuse for bad behaviour or bigotry, but you need to understand the pain and suffering that is still on the minds of many, we've had to deal with a lot of shit in our short period of modern Independence and it takes time for people to become more accepting and tolerant. We definitely don't have the luxury and privileges of the Western civilization that colonised most of the world and used stolen resources to create their developed countries.
Genuinely didn’t know that. Thanks for the info.
Just go back to the original and call a fig a fig. Just rolls off the tongue!
The issue for these poor guys is the volume of absolute knuckle draggers that pollute football.
A large majority would accept gay footballers. But it’s that vociferous, outraged, blinkered minority that act like a bunch of cnuts making themselves most heard to the footballer and we’re right back to square one.
Must be terrible hiding such a large part of you, especially in such a public sport.
It will change, but it’ll take a long time. A woman footballer coming out as lesbian, however, not a whisper of abuse I’d guess.
A large majority would accept gay footballers. But it’s that vociferous, outraged, blinkered minority that act like a bunch of cnuts making themselves most heard to the footballer and we’re right back to square one.
Must be terrible hiding such a large part of you, especially in such a public sport.
It will change, but it’ll take a long time. A woman footballer coming out as lesbian, however, not a whisper of abuse I’d guess.
Honestly, this is mostly irrelevant to the discussion.
I'm Hungarian. It's not offensive to say that Central and Eastern Europe is more socially conservative than Western Europe and has more racism and homophobia. It's just a fact. Hell, our very own constitution expressly defines marriage as the union of a man and a woman - which unfortunately accurately reflects the majority stance I'm afraid.
How and why that is so doesn't really matter that much. And frankly, past wars, foreign oppression, and so on are really no excuse for homophobia. It's not "the gays" who did the oppressing. I understand Russophobes: there the historical argument is understandable.
Hungary has a totally different history and actually was an empire in more modern times, whilst my country Bulgaria was in a completely different situation. Plus, I'm sure you know Hungary has been trying to be West oriented since the Medieval era. I'm saying there are valid reasons for people to be defensive and not accepting of the foreign interference in our lives, but it's still no excuse to radicalisation and bigotry.
Instead of bashing us on every chance, the West should have thought about all this before trying to assimilate our region for its' geopolitical gains. It's kind of funny how in some cases historical oppression is pushed in front to further agendas, but in others it is called as irrelevant.
They are not. But it is annoying at times how we in the west tell other countries, often in a condenscending manner, how to go about their lives and adapt to our values, to basically leapfrog certain stages of their development. Telling third-world countries to ban plastic comes to mind. Education is a slow ongoing process and we have seen a wonderful example in this thread of how poster was convinced by reason and logical arguments. I think name-calling never achieves anything and only strengthens peoples' mindsets. And lest we forget even Barack Obama opposed same-sex marriage in favour of "traditional" marriage as recently as 2008 based on his religious views.
on a basic level, is saying something is homophobic really "name calling"?
Oh, please. If you're somebody who's mentality can be thrown around like the wind, then you go for it, fella. Me? I am not so easy swayed by a so-called 'massive platform where thousands of people from around the world come to exchange their different views and experiences'. It's probably the reason why I have been so successful in life; so don't assume about people you know nothing about, which this whole thread has done.
Well, it quite literally is. Doesn't mean it's not warranted though because abusive and derogatory behaviour needs to be called out. It should always be followed by an explanation, though. We're not talking about obvious homophobic slurs here but the more subtle variety or situations in which a person genuinely might not have had any bad intentions or just expressed themselves badly. As happened in this thread. Just branding that person homophobic isn't going to start a learning process.
Out of interest, what would it take to change your mind if not the experiences of people that are actually gay? Or is there nothing that could convince you might be wrong?
I disagree that pointing out a homophobic action is name calling. That infers that on some level it is derogatory. I also disagree that it's a derogatory statement. Much like calling a racist, a racist isn't derogatory.
Now there is nuance, that those homophobic / racist or whatever actions were done without malice, but ignorance. I don't think calling those out as homophobic is bad. Look at @SiRed, he made a comment that was homophobic out of ignorance. But to his credit was willing to learn. The onus is on people to be willing to learn.
I've said stupid stuff, even racist stuff before when I was younger. Being told it was racist and hurtful didn't make me double down. People have to be willing to learn to grow, some people in here and at large aren't willing to learn and thus take those statements as personal attacks.
Same with calling out Trump's racism? It's not name-calling, it's describing someone's less pleasant characteristics.
With derogatory behaviour I meant being homophobic not calling someone out who is being homophobic, i. e. name-calling can be justified.
Wrong about what? I doubt you have read the posts I made. I was talking about somebody changing their mind like the wind just because they got jumped on, on this forum. And if somebody can change their mind in the space on an hour, then maybe their parents need to restrict their 'interweb' access for their own well-being; as chances are in the hour that follows, they could very well be sending their year's wages to a Nigerian philanthropist who promised them a share of £1.2 Trillion by email.
Out of interest, what would it take to change your mind if not the experiences of people that are actually gay? Or is there nothing that could convince you might be wrong?
Yeah, his racism that needs to be called out for what is. But I'd be more interested in what to do with his supporters. Calling them racist and backwards and leaving it there doesn't get you very far or wins you the argument IMHO.
Look at this thread. A bunch of people quoted a post from the first page expressing outrage or branding the poster racist. Now it's possible that is enough for some people to rethink their views but it might just push them further into the corner. When others started to take the time and explain the issue to said poster, he/she responded positively. Some people are beyond help obviously and it doesn't matter what you do.
Sure thing Steve! Nothing screams security like telling a bunch of strangers how massively successful you are in life in a thread about homosexuality in football. You really showed us weak minded fellas up with that one. Got any other gems to share?
I suspected as much - just that a friend recently got mad at me for it, so I was genuinely wondering if there was something to it.