Except none of them are British citizens.
England squad (Games against Bulgaria and Kosovo)
- Thread starter Sean_RedDevil
- Start date
Both were English, something Bailey has no claim to being.
Barnes moved to England as a child and started his career at Watford.
Hargreaves parents were English, his Dad played for Bolton.
Bailey's grandparents lived in England for a bit, that's literally it. Neither of his grandparents were English, his parents were not born in England, Bailey was not born in England, nor has he ever lived there. It's completely different. He doesn't come close to qualifying.
good enough yes but would be 3rd choice
I think that's a class team. Maybe if not Mount, then Winks or perhaps Rice to add more defensive solidity. The side is much stronger and more exciting than the side that reached the semi's.
Pickford
TAA Gomez Maguire Chilwell
Henderson Rice Maddison
Sterling Kane Sancho
TAA Gomez Maguire Chilwell
Henderson Rice Maddison
Sterling Kane Sancho
I think against a stronger side Rice or Winks for Mount would definitely be the right call. Against opposition like Bulgaria and Kosovo though, I think the 2 attacking midfielders starting would be fine.
"Pickford - Trippier, Keane, Maguire, Rose - Henderson, Rice, Barkley - Sterling, Kane, Rashford" will be the team according to the press
I generally agree with this, which makes him better than most England managers by defult. My main issue was that its a little too early to start picking him over the likes of Tarkowsk, Mee & Dunk, although I am not against the principle of him being picked at all.
As I just mentioned, at least some of his Grandparents have British Citizenship and all of them (unless they where born outside of Jamaica) where born on British ruled territory at the time of their birth. So as far as I am aware (and correct me if I am wrong about this), that would make them all eligible for British Citizenship.
At the time both of them where first selected for England, you could not really call them English in the traditional sense at least (i.e. they grew up here). Of course these days without a doubt they are indeed English (how can you not be when you have represented the Three Lions at some point), but that was not completely the case when they first got picked.
In the case of John Barnes for example, he mainly grew up in Jamaica and had only spent a couple of years in England (during which time he managed to make it to the Watford first team and made a name for himself in the Football League) before he first got selected for England. In fact Barnes himself has said on the record that he might not have been a British Citizen at the time of his first call up.
Now one might say that since he had spent pretty much his entire teens & footballing education in England, he was more than English enough (despite the fact other factors at play) to play for England at the time he first got picked and you know what I would have nothing against that view.
But then we get to Owen Hargreaves; a guy who while he did indeed have British Parents, was not only born in Canada, spent the first 16 or so years of life growing up in Canada, then spent the next 10 years living in Germany and didn't actually start living in England until he funny enough moved to Manchester United at the age of 26, a good 5 years after he first got picked for England.
In fact when you look at it, Hargreaves stiuation is actually pretty similar to Bailey's at the moment (a guy who lets not forget is actually 4 years younger than the age Hargreaves actually first started living in England).
Now for the record, I hold the view that it was the right decision for The FA to call these two up to play for the Three Lions and in turn both of them should be admired for having the balls to want to play for such a team in the first place. Despite the bigotry that was commmonplace in the English Game at the time of the first Barnes callup alongside the amount of flack Hargreaves got in Canada for the decision he made.
The thing is though; when they where both selected, neither of them could claim to be any more English than Bailey is at the moment (maybe Barnes, but definitely not Hargreaves) and thus if it is perfectly acceptable to pick them to play for England (which it is), then would have been acceptable for Bailey to be picked as well.
On current form I would agree with that. Lets not forget though that Germany would love to have options we currently possess at LB. In fact I would argue that only France has a better set of overall options at LB than we do out of all the European teams.
Maybe so against the likes of France & Brazil, but I feel that we should capitalise on the fact we have more options on the attacking side of midfield than the defensive side, hence the preference for 1 DM instead of 2.
When you look at the most commonly suggested lineups on this thread, the only players from that World Cup Squad to make it to that lineup are Pickford, TAA (who hardly played), Maguire, Henderson, Kane & Sterling, of which the former 3 didn't establish themselves into the England team until around the time of the WC.
In fact when you look at the Euro 2016 Squad and compare it to the players that got picked since the 2018 World Cup; only Heaton (Who only just started getting minutes for the Three Lions), Rose (who again only made his debut a few months before), Stones (who made his debut the year before), Walker (Who in contrast first started playing for England as early as 2011), Barkley (who started playing for England in 2013), Alli (Who first got picked the year before), Dier (Same as Alli), Henderson (Who first got picked in 2010), Kane (Same as Dier & Alli) & Sterling (Who first got picked in 2012) are stll getting picked to this day.
Moreso with the 2014 World Cup Squad only Henderson, Oxlade-Chamberlain (who first got picked in 2012), Sterling, Barkley & Shaw (Who had only started to get picked a few months before) are still getting picked to this day.
Thus it its clear to see that over the last 5 (and especially the last 2-3) years, there has been a near complete moving away from both the Golden Generation and from what I like to call the Lost Generation (As represented by the likes of Welbeck, Lennon, Jones & Hart), with only Henderson, Walker and maybe Oxlade-Chamberlain being pretty much the only players of that generation who are still getting callups.
My hope is that we have also moved on from the failures of both generations as well.
Don't see why Southgate should be playing Rashford on the Wing quite frankly. Regardless surely it would make sense to play the strongest XI against Bulgaria to establish the new defult lineup* first and then play an more experimental lineup (apart from Maddison) against Kosovo** to make the most out of the players he has picked."Pickford - Trippier, Keane, Maguire, Rose - Henderson, Rice, Barkley - Sterling, Kane, Rashford" will be the team according to the press
*i.e. Pickford - TAA/Gomez/Maguire/Chilwell - Maddison/Winks/Mount - Sancho/Kane/Sterling
**i.e. Heaton - Tripper/Keane/Mings/Rose - Maddison/Rice/Barkley - Sancho/Rashford/Sterling
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Dele Alli may be out of form but come an actual important game he should still be starting ahead of Mount or Maddison any day of the week.
Manager in sticking with a core that has been very successful shocker."Pickford - Trippier, Keane, Maguire, Rose - Henderson, Rice, Barkley - Sterling, Kane, Rashford" will be the team according to the press
There’s a key difference between Hargreaves and Bailey and that is that Hargreaves’ father is English. Usually (and certainly in my case) you grow up supporting the team your dad supports so to me it seems natural that Hargreaves would feel English in a footballing sense and choose to play for England over Canada or Wales. Bailey does not have that same connection to England or the England team and would simply have played for them for career reasons which I personally think is against the spirit of international football.
Wow, could he possibly have picked a more underwhelming and outright boring team?"Pickford - Trippier, Keane, Maguire, Rose - Henderson, Rice, Barkley - Sterling, Kane, Rashford" will be the team according to the press
And as I mentioned that doesn't give Bailey the right to British Citizenship. None of his parents or grandparents were born in Britain. Bailey doesn't have British citizenship, he isn't eligible for it, he isn't eligible to play for England and he will never be eligible to play for England. I've corrected you because you are wrong. Bailey isn't eligible for England.
No, it isn't similar at all. Hargreaves parent's are British and he has British citizen from birth. A key fact that Bailey is lacking, he isn't a British citizenship. Quite different situations, one is eligible for England and the other isn't.
If Bailey was actually eligible for British citizenship then he would have it and he would have said he had it. Instead his camp released some non-sense pr statement about his grandfather fighting for the British in a war. Which in no way makes Leon eligible for citizenship or to play for England.
The thing is though, they were both selected at a time when they were both British citizens and had perfect claims for being English. The complete opposite of Leon Bailey who isn't a citizen and has no claim to being eligible for England.
No, FIFA rules dictate it is not perfectly acceptable to pick players with no citizenship or ties to England.
Yep, disappointed with that that although it will still be good enough to win 2/3-0 today.
Not sure what the fascination with Barkley is. Never kicked on from his good season at Everton which was quite a few years back. Today would've been ideal to give Maddison a start, maybe he'll get that on Tuesday.
Jaydon Sancho hasn't yet got going at international level but still in fantastic form for Dortmund so would've like to have seen more faith shown in him. Starting with Rashford very safe option.
Guess it's easier to drop Sancho as wider football public dosen't really watch much european football so they don't know him as much as the domestic players.
He’s been one of England’s best players since the World Cup. Has done nothing to deserve to lose his place.
Obsessed with a young British core. Southgate out!"Pickford - Trippier, Keane, Maguire, Rose - Henderson, Rice, Barkley - Sterling, Kane, Rashford" will be the team according to the press
Wow how does Sancho not get ahead of Rashford into the team
To be fair to Rashford, he's been in great form for England.
Some baffling calls. Barkley over Maddison, Tripper over TAA, Rose over Chilwell too.
Roy Hodgson nodding in approval."Pickford - Trippier, Keane, Maguire, Rose - Henderson, Rice, Barkley - Sterling, Kane, Rashford" will be the team according to the press
based on what? he hasn't played well for club or country since the world cup so he has not right to start over anyone
If Sancho starts on the bench, then Southgate is a dick
Agreed.
You should earn the chance to play for the England team via club form, but should prove you deserve to stay with international form. Players who continually disappoint in an England shirt should be dropped for a good while then given another chance at a later date. If you can't do it for your country I don't care what you do for your club, and Alli has been absolutely dire in an England shirt.
And yes, he's also not even performing at club level and has been injured too, so right now he's not deserving of a call up at all.
I've never been that impressed by Alli. Looked a talent when he burst on the scene but never really kicked on from there imho
He was fantastic for his first few seasons. His numbers for a young attacking midfielder were insane and he made the step up to PL level so comfortably.
That goal vs Palace was pure
and he kept doing moments of magic from then on, whilst also having an incredible eye for goal. I was so sure he was destined for the top, he was also a proper 'big game' player - scoring consistently in games like Arsenal, Madrid, Chelsea, United etc. But last season he was mostly terrible. Prepared to write it off as a bad year because he's young and had injuries, but he needs to have a really strong season now. For England though he's never really impressed me.
Experience at elite level, general ability and talent, performances throughout his career, consistency of selection, existing partnership with Kane.
none of which he has demonstrated in an England shirt since the world cup and he wasn't that impressive in the world itself either, others deserve the chance more now, he needs to fight to earn it back
TBF giving some players a mini-break is important given these aren't exactly tiebreak matches.
If Trippier plays today and TAA plays against Kosovo on Tuesday then it's fine....but if Trippier's possible start today means that he is the first choice then sorry it's wrong because TAA is currently the best right-back.
That Barkley plays is okay.....but we don't need Henderson and Rice against feckin Bulgaria at home......one of Maddison/Winks/Mount must play.
And Rashford showed nothing in the last months that it would make sense to start him instead of Sancho.
@SquishyMcSquish has actually already said everything about him.
Dele Alli is currently too much like Thomas Müller....a goal here and a assist there but his form is bad in the last months and he hasn't improved in the last 1-2 years.
Henderson playing how he does for Liverpool as opposed to at the World Cup is a different player and would be very useful against either Bulgaria or Kosavo as he isn't a holding player
He sees them in training and certain players will fit a specific system better. People just want the flavour of the month players to start.
We will struggle with the ball in midfield with Henderson/Rice/Barkley.
Then i would say Barnes should play for England
Are you saying Sancho is flavor of the month after his last season and this season so far?
Henderson and Rice is overkill, only need 1 at home to Bulgaria
England so lack creativity in midfield