This all the way.
Why are we dropping the standards for Ole?
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
- Start date
they didn't dominate us and the game was away.Great post. Until their is accepttance on all these points, further progress will not be made.
I agree with your post in the main but why do people insist on taking Ole's positivity in the press as meaning he is unaware of what we all see? He knows the squad is bang average hence why we're clearing players out. Just because he doesn't publicly announce how shit we are like Mourinho did in an effort to save his own reputation doesn't mean he's a smiling buffoon.
The thread should say "Why are we dropping the Standards for the board?"
The fact McT was our best player says how far the quality of the squad has dropped.
The fact McT was our best player says how far the quality of the squad has dropped.
Conveniently ignoring they sold Coutinho for 140m.
Conveniently ignoring two of those players replaced Courtois and Hazard.
The likes of Jerome Boateng, Yerry Mina, and a bunch of 30 years old wingers would have definitely led United to a title challenge. Can't argue with that.
Selling? We give them away for free. Even subsidized their wage.
What an absurd comment
Or it could just mean that he is improving and had a good performance. It's not as if he is now suddenly the best player at the club
Good stuff creating an argument I never made. We spent a feck ton of money this summer, yet again, using the fact that we are above Norwich and Bournemouth on the table as some sort of positive is laughable. Norwich and Bournemouth also look far more fluid in offence than we do. Despite having the far inferior players.
Chelsea had a transfer ban and are playing a squad of all youth products. Today they just dismantled a team we struggled to break down. Lampard hasn't needed a season and a half of time to begin implementing his ideas. They look a completely different team than under Sarri already. We on the other hand, look just as clueless in attack as we did under Mourinho.
This nonsense that a manager needs more of his own players and 56 seasons for his style to begin being identifiable is ridiculous. All top managers have ideas and even without the players they require to win, the progress becomes evident.
Sorry but this doesn't cut it. It's like putting a video of random player scoring 50 goals and tell the world that he is next Messi or Ronaldo. Everyone watching the game would agree that we should have won. Youtube videos or not. We were unlucky. Like we were against Wolves and Crystal Palace. As unlucky as we were in those games we were lucky in first half against Chelsea.
He took over a team that had finished on 69 points in 13/14 under Tim Sherwood (72 12/13) and he got 64 points in 14/15 and 70 the season after.
Do you think there would be as much patience here? (I think the forum at the moment has the answer). He was under far less pressure than he would be here.
This was at a time when the usual top 6 were the weakest they've been in years so it was much easier to look good in comparison.
It was also a time when you could still pick up top quality for bargain prices, those days have gone.
Points standalone mean nothing. It needs to be relevant to the season he operates in and how he's benchmarked as a position. Before he joined Spurs were behind Everton. Then they finished just outside top 4. Then they consistently finished in the top 4 since, looking stronger and more relevant despite spending less and less compared to the 3 clubs above them. It's quite a great achievement for him, cup or no cup. I'd love to see what he does at a big club with a chequebook.
It's good to see other members that have seen the light and snapped out of the Ole at the wheel trance they've been stuck in since last December.
We have 4 wins from the last 16 games. Ole has had enough time to at least get the team playing with some kind of plan or style but in the 9 months hes had we still cant win games with any sort of assurance.
The members who are aggressively protecting the management of our club are clearly fine with struggling to beat the bottom clubs and losing at Old Trafford every second week and thats ok roonster09 however we need to see improvement from this team and soon that would give Ole a reason to stay.
Wish everyone would forget about last season.
Thats posted by Southampton FC FFS.
Simply put everyone with any common sense is aware that we have spent a ridiculous amount of money on transfers and wages over the past 5 years building a lackluster squad with a culture problem.
its going to take a few years to tear that down and rebuild. No manager is going to come in and get us challenging for trophies again, so right now we need a manager who can turn the page on the squad we have and give players who maybe able to contribute at the highest level in a few years, while we sort out the car crash that is our wage structure and squad imbalance.
Is Solskjaer the right man to take us forward after that? probably not. But right now we need a manager who is almost like a stop gap, who can blood new players.
its going to take a few years to tear that down and rebuild. No manager is going to come in and get us challenging for trophies again, so right now we need a manager who can turn the page on the squad we have and give players who maybe able to contribute at the highest level in a few years, while we sort out the car crash that is our wage structure and squad imbalance.
Is Solskjaer the right man to take us forward after that? probably not. But right now we need a manager who is almost like a stop gap, who can blood new players.
To be fair, that is something that not only could but actually has happened in the latter part of Fergie's reign. But standards have started to slip a little back then.
What exactly do you think the manager does? Ole isn't negotiating fees with other clubs, he tells the club who is surplus to requirements, the transfer commitee agree on targets then Matt Judge does the negotiating. The fees paid/received have very little to do with Ole.
As for the rest of your post, I listed the correct decisions he's made in a previous post.
- The choices to get rid of Lukaku, Sanchez, Darmian and Fellaini, and try to get rid of Rojo, were spot on. Smalling was a judgement call based on his no longer being a regular and wanting to play, best for him but maybe not for us.
- The players he's signed/targeted are exactly what we needed, James has been excellent, Maguire has been what we expected/hoped and AWB, whom you failed to mention, has been a revelation.
- The players he targeted but failed to get like Sancho, Rice and Longstaff are exactly what we need in terms of age, potential and ability to contribute now.
- Not falling into the trap of signing anyone available, irrespective of wages/desire to be here because we couldn't get his top targets is the best indicator of his long term view and it's just what we should be doing.
- Not signing Dybala was the right choice. If a player doesn't want to be here/is more interested in money then his talent is irrelevant - we've seen that time and again over the last 6 years.
- Promoting Greenwood, Gomes, Chong and Tuanzebe is just what the club and squad need, it's what gives the clun it's identity.
- Trying to change the style of play to a high press is just what a top club should do. We may not have to players to execute it properly/consistently yet but it's still the right direction for the team.
- The recruits for the academy are exciting and a clear shift in focus from the previous 6 years.
I explained the last part of my post earlier. The decisions and choices Ole's made are with the long term in mind, judging them on short term results is idiotic. If you think his decisions are purely for the short term or are judging them based on short term criteria/results then you're wrong. If you understand that they're long term decisions but don't care because you're more interested in the result of the next match/10 matches/where we finish this season then IMO there are other clubs/fans out there with that mentality, like the muppets at Madrid who whistle at players.
What I really can't stomach is impatient, and in my view idiotic fans who can't see past the result of the previous game.
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Dyu want me to post the full match highlights for you so? Youll finally get to watch the match, They had the better chances- and we couldnt get any rhythm or plan working for the whole 90 mins. It's Southampton, the week before was Crystal Palace. But that's fine because we "should have won" and we were unlucky. Luck should never be a hope or an excuse. We have 4 wins from our last 16 games.. were we unlucky in all of them?
Well a Kane level striker (who he started with for nothing) will cost £150m+, so he'd be under pressure straight away.
What's significance of pulling random number like 16?
Its the last 16 games since the PSG win.
McT being the best player isn't shyte.
So he is better than all the midfielders playing last night, is that bad???
Confused.
You don't need to post anything because I saw the game when it was played. You are wrong. And most, if not anyone except you agree that we were better and deserved to win.
You say 4 of 16? Why last season is important for you I don't know. And then you somehow jump over preseason. If you want to give some Ole-historic stats then you should take every game from begining and not pick what you want.
Can I then say 1 of 1? Or is there a starting date from when you can look as Ole's stats?
No one judging OGS in the last few games, he has had more than half a season. His tactics or whatever he is trying to implement should at least be somewhat visible in our performances. Simply buying correct players alone is not the job of a manager, he has to do something with the players. That is where most of the concern is, we play simple like we did under Mourinho, what has OGS added to our football? Do we pass better? Do we play much more cohesively? Do we press as a collective? Our basics are simply pathetic, how long do you think a manager these days needs to make somewhat an impression on the pitch?
Kane grew into that level of a striker under Poch. Sure he was likely always going to make it, but Poch deserves credit for nurturing him through from the Sherwood. What about the defence? Or the midfield? They can't go out and break the bank for a player in every position.
He's spent what, 290ish million over his time at Spurs. Pep has spent over a billion. Klopp has spent 575m ( 390ish if you want to take away the Coutinho fee). We've spent around 400m or so in the same length of time right?
Hes spent closer to half of the named teams, has a lower wage structure and had to deal with a temporary stadium for 1.5 seasons, and people are claiming he's had favourable conditions
You actually asked to look at those teams, I did.
I never said that it was a positive to be above Norwich or Bournemoth, I just presented you with the facts.
The three teams you've mentioned have leaked a laughable amount of goals, one of which we beat 4-0 not long ago.
Lampard has implemented his own style, which so far has been worse than Sarris. Conceding eleven goals in five matches is really alarming for them.
If you want to look at teams we should aspire to emulate, look at Liverpool and City, rather than Chelsea, Norwich and Bournemouth.
Still nicely ignoring my points about how he wouldn't be up against such weak rivals and be allowed to get such low points totals. If you can't see that's favourable compared to what he would have hereKane grew into that level of a striker under Poch. Sure he was likely always going to make it, but Poch deserves credit for nurturing him through from the Sherwood. What about the defence? Or the midfield? They can't go out and break the bank for a player in every position.
He's spent what, 290ish million over his time at Spurs. Pep has spent over a billion. Klopp has spent 575m ( 390ish if you want to take away the Coutinho fee). We've spent around 400m or so in the same length of time right?
Hes spent closer to half of the named teams, has a lower wage structure and had to deal with a temporary stadium for 1.5 seasons, and people are claiming he's had favourable conditions
He started with plenty of other good players as well like Eriksen, Vertonghen, Walker and Rose, imagine having to spend to replace them.
I haven't ignored any point. It's just less relevant when you look at the big teams above him and claim his conditions are favourable. How anyone can use a no trophy stick to beat with him when he's severely disabled in spending compared to 3 other sides is beyond me.Still nicely ignoring my points about how he wouldn't be up against such weak rivals and be allowed to get such low points totals. If you can't see that's favourable compared to what he would have here
He started with plenty of other good players as well like Eriksen, Vertonghen, Walker and Rose, imagine having to spend to replace them.
Eriksen was struggling initially under Sherwood if memory serves, and Poch did his job and maximised the best of his ability. Poch did replace Walker and will have to replace Rose in January or next summer. He's gone out and brought in the likes of Davinson Sanchez who are more than capable of filling a void and going by all recruits he's made there's a fair chance he will be able to replace any void left by Eriksen too. His transfer dealings are broadly very good.
He brought in Alderweirald, Deli Ali, Lucas Moura, Son, Sanchez, Aurier etc. all of whom are as important to his squad as the players you named are. Are you really trying to suggest he inherited an entire squad that was worthy of challenging? Do us all a favour.
So 5 in 17?
You're making the assumption that he personally recommended and scouted all of those players. Getting Alli for £5m was all down to him? And like I say, all at a time when those types of bargains could be found. Spurs more recent deals haven't been so good.
We didn't have similar quality in our squad at the start of 14/15 so of course we would have to spend more. Simple logic. Unfortunately we've wasted it dross because of our lack of structure and planning which Spurs had.
You're making the assumption that any manager could walk in with the players you named (Kane, Eriksen) and get to the same point or better. Your premise is far more presumptuous than mine.
It looks like the manager change that prompted this thread is working well for Watford.
Once again, those teams have far inferior players to us, so you are missing the point. I would hope we would have a better defensive record than a team who lost one of their most experienced defenders, whilst having a transfer ban and two teams who should be relegation tier having spent a world record on a CB and having one of, if not the best goalkeeper in World football. Not to add the fee we paid for AWB. The other teams mentioned didn't/don't have that freedom. Not to mention, Lampard starting the season with key players, mainly Kante being out.
Whether or not Lampard's style is as good as Sarri's is also missing the point. That was never the argument. The argument here is that, Lampard didn't need a whole squad of his own players and all that time to start changing the style.
We beat Chelsea 4-0 on the first matchday of the season, because they allowed us to counter attack. That alone is the issue. We look great when teams give us space, but absolutely clueless if a team doesn't give us space to operate and attack. That is where the intricate coaching comes into play. Something that we very evidently do not seem to grasp.
Also this has nothing to do with teams we should emulate. Of course we should emulate Liverpool and City, but they are a million miles away from us, both in regards to their managers and their squads. The point was simply made to prove that you don't need to spend a feck ton of money, get a manager a team of players he wants, whilst granting him a free pass for 50 seasons before you start seeing progress.
We play shit football and look clueless, because simply put; both the players AND Ole aren't good enough. The standard of football in England now is insane, relying on a manager who has failed everytime he has tried stepping up from the Norwegian league, regardless of the players you give him isn't going to be enough. Molde are doing better without him.
I love Ole, but simply put, he is getting a free pass given his history with us. Any other manager in his situation at the moment would be getting hounded out.
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Well I hope you enjoyed because I didnt and for to say we deserved to win is embarrassing, if we deserved to win we would have won.
Of course last season is important in being able to draw comparisons and as you can see we are averaging 2 wins every 4 games. We have not improved since last season and that is clear to see and if you dont think 4 wins from our last 16 competitive is not something to worry about then your expecting to finish midtable because thats the form of a midtable side.
Preseason? Dont make me laugh.
Good post. The need to remind a fellow fan of this after an unexpected win is depressing...
Nope, I'm saying there's no guarantee he'd do the same here with different players and circumstances.
No manager comes with a guarantee. Not sure what that has to do with anything.