Sky Sports: Gary Neville on Utd's season expectations | MNF

[Stacks]

If Pochettino still hasn't won anything by July then we would be daft to hire him. Harry Redknapp had Spurs in the CL so I fail to see why everybody is falling over themselves to anoint Poch. He has a good squad but still seems to stick to the principal tactic of telling his players to kick and foul the opposition as much as possible and to fall over theatrically whenever they get near the penalty area. No thanks.

If only he wins the Norwegian league then he's golden

 

[Gandalf]

If only he wins the Norwegian league then he's golden

He is not good enough. The Norwegian league would find that chancer out in no time.

 

[Stacks]

He talks about that spine of senior players being vital, but we have to remember that we should be looking to towering performances from the likes of De Gea, Maguire, and Pogba. That is our spine. In reality we need just one more player added to that, and that is a top class CM to play as a number 6. I believe that would be transformative for our side, with Pogba pushing to 10, and McTominay being an agressive 8.

If you count Gary's example we need another CB CF and a CM. I don't see McTom being first teamer. He hasn't shown the promise of Nicky Butt so......

 

[Mainoldo]

I agree with both points. In short Neville is explaining that we need to flush out the toxic or poor planning to enable us to have he players capable of winning the title. On the opposite end Carragher is pointing out even with the players we need a good manager. Basically saying we aren’t much different to Liverpool in what we have.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

That makes absolutely no sense. If they were really looking to sell then they would want to do it when the team is at it's most valuable. A team who wins the league is more valuable than a team who finishes 8th-10th place...

Well then they've missed the boat haven't they, because this team isn't going to be successful for many, many, many years to come. So if the fans start revolting, the season tickets begin waning, the sponsors start kicking up a fuss etc, they might well find that they've had enough of the downslide and want out. Shame they didn't do it when we were successful.

 

[Greck]

If Pochettino still hasn't won anything by July then we would be daft to hire him. Harry Redknapp had Spurs in the CL so I fail to see why everybody is falling over themselves to anoint Poch. He has a good squad but still seems to stick to the principal tactic of telling his players to kick and foul the opposition as much as possible and to fall over theatrically whenever they get near the penalty area. No thanks.

If he hasn't won anything by July he'll still be a better manager than Ole. Poch built that squad and tactically I'd back him to get more out of any squad he builds than Ole can any squad he builds. Spurs are a testament to that so it's not pure conjecture. Tactically Ole is very very raw. He has a plan in the transfer market but so far seems to have none on the pitch

 

[Leftback99]

If he hasn't won anything by July he'll still be a better manager than Ole. Poch built that squad and tactically I'd back him to get more out of any squad he builds than Ole can any squad he builds. Spurs are a testament to that so it's not pure conjecture. Tactically Ole is very very raw. He has a plan in the transfer market but so far seems to have none on the pitch

Just as Spurs blow another 2-0 lead.

 

[SaintMuppet]

He's on the money.

I wish our fan base - online at least (the match-day fans definitely get it) would understand that this is all about the long-term.

Any fan judging Ole on what happens this season alone is failing to see the bigger picture.

What I love the most is that Ole wants Sancho.. but it was impossible to prise him away from Dortmund this summer.. but did the club panic buy and say 'well let's get Bale in - or let's buy somebody else for that position"? - no.. the club has patience. The board, the manager, the players all know where it's going.

Ole also wants either Longstaff or Rice but neither could be prised away... did we panic buy instead? No. We are taking our time to build the type of team and type of identity Man Utd needs to get back to the top.

The board are fully behind Ole and the fans need to get in line too.

Anybody complaining about results/performances this season are missing the point of what the club are trying to do.

This is all about the bigger picture.

We all need a large dollop of my username.

Is that you Ed?

Ed, Ed???

 

[Tomuś]

I'm all for patience and all but I don't think expecting more than 45 minutes of good football in 5 games is panicking.

 

[Greck]

Just as Spurs blow another 2-0 lead.

They could blow a 4-0 lead and the point would still stand

 

[Crashoutcassius]

This is one of the worst Neville takes I've seen. Carragher is right to laugh. Pool and city are top of the league because of coaching... their players aren't the best in the world because they were anyway and were well scouted, it is because of coaching and fitting the style of play.

Not a knock on ole, our club does need to get back to basics and find consistency in the approach and who it starts with doesn't matter, what plan is is less important than having a plan and sticking with it

 

[finneh]

This is one of the worst Neville takes I've seen. Carragher is right to laugh. Pool and city are top of the league because of coaching... their players aren't the best in the world because they were anyway and were well scouted, it is because of coaching and fitting the style of play.

Their players clearly are the best on the world... Was Van Dijk not the best centre back on the planet since the day he joined (before coaching could help him)? Is Aguero not one of the best centre forwards for both Guardiola and his predecessors? Was Fernandinho not one of best midfield players? Laporte? Salah? Sterling and De Bruyne who were really good prior to Guardiola's arrival? David Silva who's been one of the best players on the PL the last decade under multiple managers.


Obviously being managed effectively is a key requirement... But let's be honest, you give most people with an interest in football a team with Kompany, David Silva, Aguero, Fernandinho, Sterling and De Bruyne and then give them another £650m to spend without having to sell any key players and "coaching" wouldn't be the reason for trophies.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Well then they've missed the boat haven't they, because this team isn't going to be successful for many, many, many years to come. So if the fans start revolting, the season tickets begin waning, the sponsors start kicking up a fuss etc, they might well find that they've had enough of the downslide and want out. Shame they didn't do it when we were successful.

You don't become rich by selling when the value is low. The only way they sell is if/when we get back to the top. Not sure how long that will take, but we are finally moving in the right direction...

 

[TheRedHearted]

You don't become rich by selling when the value is low. The only way they sell is if/when we get back to the top. Not sure how long that will take, but we are finally moving in the right direction...

If they sell now they could still make money. We aren't so far off in terms of value as people think.

 

[Betson]

Very hard to argue with anything Neville says there, we have to accept realistic expectations right now are that we are miles off been a title challenging team.

And that is because we cannot change over night years of shambolic transfer windows where loads of mistakes were made.

The summer just gone was not a great transfer window taken on it's own but it was a hell of a lot better than the ones we have done previously where we shelled out big money and outrageous salary deals to over the top players who brought very little to the club.

It looks we have avoided those mistakes now and brought in an established quality centre back and two exciting young prospects with plenty of potential.

But we will need another two of three widows to get us anywhere near the top again and finding those 2/3 established players Neville talked about as been spine of the team type players will be the really hard part.

 

[meamth]

The real awful thing is the amount of Top Reds fans who swarmed this forum out of nowhere this year and trying to show everyone the real way of supporting United, which is for them accepting mediocrity, while I'm pretty sure under the previous 3 managers they were slaughtering everyone anyway.

Anyway, you're welcome on my Ignore list.

Telling people you're on my ignore list sums up the kind of person you are.

Coward. Man up, face the argument.

 

[Rolandofgilead]

The real awful thing is the amount of Top Reds fans who swarmed this forum out of nowhere this year and trying to show everyone the real way of supporting United, which is for them accepting mediocrity, while I'm pretty sure under the previous 3 managers they were slaughtering everyone anyway.

Anyway, you're welcome on my Ignore list.

No. The real awful thing is fans complete lack of understanding of the modern footballer.

United finished 6th last season and have only qualified for the Champions League a couple of times in the past few seasons. As a fan base we have been used to the vast majority of professional footballers wanted to come and play for Manchester United. They wanted to come and play at a club that was steeped in history and had a particular way of doing things, for example developing youth players.

This philosophy slowly dwindled after Busby retired and there are still a handful of us that remember finishing 13th in Division 1 and we spent a good deal of the backend of that season worrying about staying up, But we won the FA Cup and that steadied the ship somewhat, the following season we finished 6th, the season after that we were 2nd and finally the following year we were champions.

I know that you don't need a history lesson but the long and short of it is this, things have changed and the world has moved on. We haven't won the title since 2013 and coincidentally Fergie retired. So, we hired Moyes and that didn't work out, so we went to a big name in LVG and that didn't work out and then finally Jose and predictably that also didn't work out. Now we have Ole, somebody that played under Fergie and a man that understands the club and what we stand for a hell of a lot better than most of our fanbase, specifically the ones that have only been used to seeing us win things consistently.

The reason i brought up the modern footballer is because they reflect what i see in large sections of our online fanbase. They see that we no longer pretty much guarantee a champions league place, they see that our two biggest rivals are winning and winning well whilst both qualifying for the champions league. In City's case they see that they can pay pretty much anything and when you combine all of that with players agents that can say "sure, he will sign for you, but as you can only offer Europa league football, my client will be here solely to pick up a pay check and give you a half decent game every 6 or 7 weeks, if he has nothing else on at the time. Meanwhile the fanbase that i mentioned earlier are sitting at home and pulling themselves off to the latest FIFA stats on the playstation and questioning the manager and the recruitment process.

What we have done this summer is remove some of the deadwood, i'm sure we could have sold more but i also think it's pretty important to be able to actually field a team every week, so we are probably better off doing it in stages. We could have gone out and spunked massive amounts of money on say, Di Maria for example, but something tells me that wouldn't work out very well. So instead we signed 3 very talented, very young players. We have given a few acadamy graduates some game time and we are working hard to try and get back to where we want to be.

This isn't football manager, you can't just magically edit the database and all of a sudden have a winning formula.

Slighty off topic but somebody in this thread said something along the lines of 'did anybody ever see ole as a manager after he left' insinuating that it was a rushed, fan pleasing appointment that would never work. It caught my attention because somebody asked me on saturday on the way home from St Albans away whether i ever expected Mark Mosely to become Weymouth manager after he left as a player, i didn't fyi, but since he took over we have finished 2nd (on 97 points) followed by champions the next season and currently sit in the play off positions in the conference south. I know it is far from the same thing but my point is that it CAN work.

 

[Patience]

The real awful thing is the amount of Top Reds fans who swarmed this forum out of nowhere this year and trying to show everyone the real way of supporting United, which is for them accepting mediocrity, while I'm pretty sure under the previous 3 managers they were slaughtering everyone anyway.

Anyway, you're welcome on my Ignore list.

Mate; nobody is accepting mediocrity.

Fans are accepting that the club needs to readopt an identity in order to get back to winning ways. We ain't gonna hire a manager and start winning titles straight away. We hired the man who won titles EVERYWHERE he has been, but even he couldn't win one with us. Our squad is a mess because we keep hiring and firing managers - and the dressingroom is filled with players who don't even compliment each other.

You say fans are accepting mediocrity.

I say fans are accepting that it takes time for one manager to build a philosophy and we must respect that.

Sir Matt took six years before he won a title - and he built it slow.
Sir Alex took six years before he won a title - and he built it slow.

Fans are now willing to accept that it will take some years of struggle and rebuilding before we start winning again.

It's incredibly ignorant of you to not be able to see that.

 

[El Zoido]

He's on the money.

I wish our fan base - online at least (the match-day fans definitely get it) would understand that this is all about the long-term.

Any fan judging Ole on what happens this season alone is failing to see the bigger picture.

What I love the most is that Ole wants Sancho.. but it was impossible to prise him away from Dortmund this summer.. but did the club panic buy and say 'well let's get Bale in - or let's buy somebody else for that position"? - no.. the club has patience. The board, the manager, the players all know where it's going.

Ole also wants either Longstaff or Rice but neither could be prised away... did we panic buy instead? No. We are taking our time to build the type of team and type of identity Man Utd needs to get back to the top.

The board are fully behind Ole and the fans need to get in line too.

Anybody complaining about results/performances this season are missing the point of what the club are trying to do.

This is all about the bigger picture.

We all need a large dollop of my username.

Spot on. Shame a large portion of the fanbase is revealing itself to be extremely toxic.

 

[Tarrou]

Mate; nobody is accepting mediocrity.

Fans are accepting that the club needs to readopt an identity in order to get back to winning ways. We ain't gonna hire a manager and start winning titles straight away. We hired the man who won titles EVERYWHERE he has been, but even he couldn't win one with us. Our squad is a mess because we keep hiring and firing managers - and the dressingroom is filled with players who don't even compliment each other.

You say fans are accepting mediocrity.

I say fans are accepting that it takes time for one manager to build a philosophy and we must respect that.

Sir Matt took six years before he won a title - and he built it slow.
Sir Alex took six years before he won a title - and he built it slow.

Fans are now willing to accept that it will take some years of struggle and rebuilding before we start winning again.

It's incredibly ignorant of you to not be able to see that.

username checks out

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Spot on. Shame a large portion of the fanbase is revealing itself to be extremely toxic.

A large portion of the ‘on-line’ fan base though. The vast majority of real life Utd fans are fully behind the manager and can see what he’s doing. I don’t know whether it’s specifically Utd on-line fans, or whether it’s just how it is generally across all clubs. The need for instant gratification is a sad indictment on society.

I don’t want to compare him to Fergie (and it’s something OGS needs to stop doing - referencing his time at the club under SAF), but Fergie would wait for the right player as well.

Time and time again the best teams take time to build, just look at Liverpool - it took 3 years for Klopp to launch a title bid for example.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I agree with both points. In short Neville is explaining that we need to flush out the toxic or poor planning to enable us to have he players capable of winning the title. On the opposite end Carragher is pointing out even with the players we need a good manager. Basically saying we aren’t much different to Liverpool in what we have.

Yup. Neville is determined to ignore the enormous (and obvious) benefit that Klopp has had on Liverpool as a coach. His whole argument seems to be based around an idea that all that matters is the squad when in reality we’ve seen plenty of examples of a change in manager getting much better performances out of a squad of players that everyone had written off. Ironically, we’ve seen exactly that at United, under Ole. The problem has been maintaining that level of performance. Never mind the constant and ongoing improvement Klopp seems to have underway at Liverpool.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

Mate; nobody is accepting mediocrity.

Fans are accepting that the club needs to readopt an identity in order to get back to winning ways. We ain't gonna hire a manager and start winning titles straight away. We hired the man who won titles EVERYWHERE he has been, but even he couldn't win one with us. Our squad is a mess because we keep hiring and firing managers - and the dressingroom is filled with players who don't even compliment each other.

You say fans are accepting mediocrity.

I say fans are accepting that it takes time for one manager to build a philosophy and we must respect that.

Sir Matt took six years before he won a title - and he built it slow.
Sir Alex took six years before he won a title - and he built it slow.

Fans are now willing to accept that it will take some years of struggle and rebuilding before we start winning again.

It's incredibly ignorant of you to not be able to see that.

I don't disagree Ole needs time. The squad is in a mess and I think a number of factors were at play, poor decisions at this club from the end of Fergie's time up until now all coming home to roost, during that awful run of form at the end of last year. I'm happy to give Ole a clean slate this year and, disappointment about replacements aside, the clear out and the focus on a better style of football is welcome.

The only note of caution I'd raise is that we don't get so worried about more chopping and changing that we become wary of raising the alarm if things do go drastically wrong. I'm not of the opinion that a finish below fourth means Ole should automatically get the bullet but he'll rightly get scrutiny, and we cannot work on the assumption Ole is untouchable for at least two more years after this just for continuity's sake. If it's bad and a turn around isn't looking to be on the cards a change will be needed, or we'll be nine years in the shit rather than six.

On topic I agree the lack of a mention of coaching whatsoever is a huge hole in Neville's case, though I like the way he puts onus on our senior players to improve given they haven't been a patch on their counterparts at Liverpool and City.

 

[devilish]

I find Neville a bit hilarious tbh. He feels that the team is full of deadwood and yet he defended the managers who brought all the deadwood to the club

In my opinion ole cannot really judged as no manager can succeed with a team with no midfield and forward line. However while I understand his challenges I fail to see any progression. We still get outwitted tactically and the results are pretty dire. Speaking about kids and buying expensive local talent is not progression.

 

[littleman]

A large portion of the ‘on-line’ fan base though. The vast majority of real life Utd fans are fully behind the manager and can see what he’s doing. I don’t know whether it’s specifically Utd on-line fans, or whether it’s just how it is generally across all clubs. The need for instant gratification is a sad indictment on society.

Didn't know Redcafe was full of fake, non-real-life fans. I thought we were all living breathing people.

If only matchgoing fans counted, MUFC wouldn't be commercially successful and our players would be paid very differently -- on the level of a Newcastle or Sunderland.. maybe even less. If you think Rashford would play for that MUFC you are dreaming.

What is true is that Rashford, like the rest of us, doesn't give a shit about you in both worlds. Just another convenient lacky setting the bar lower for him.

 

[Bilbo]

Yup. Neville is determined to ignore the enormous (and obvious) benefit that Klopp has had on Liverpool as a coach. His whole argument seems to be based around an idea that all that matters is the squad when in reality we’ve seen plenty of examples of a change in manager getting much better performances out of a squad of players that everyone had written off. Ironically, we’ve seen exactly that at United, under Ole. The problem has been maintaining that level of performance. Never mind the constant and ongoing improvement Klopp seems to have underway at Liverpool.

Agree with all of that - however Klopp took some time to get there.

 

[Bulldog United]

Agree with all of that - however Klopp took some time to get there.

Klopp's track record did give reason to believe he would eventually get there. You could see the progress he was making and the impact he was having on the way Liverpool played football even before he had assembled the pool of talent he wanted.

I have seen some progress with Ole too. We have often started games very well this season, full of energy and drive, but the problem of us fading away in the second half is still seemingly unsolved. His signings though all look top quality so far, and I'm delighted with all of them.

 

[TRUERED89]

Keane and Sharpe as CMs? I can't recall having them at centre and Butt on the right in one game. Giggsy on the right, and Sharpe on the left. Gary, we expect more from you!

Not sure about Sharpe, but Beckham played CM a few times when he first came through.

 

[Bilbo]

Klopp's track record did give reason to believe he would eventually get there. You could see the progress he was making and the impact he was having on the way Liverpool played football even before he had assembled the pool of talent he wanted.

I have seen some progress with Ole too. We have often started games very well this season, full of energy and drive, but the problem of us fading away in the second half is still seemingly unsolved. His signings though all look top quality so far, and I'm delighted with all of them.

Fully agree. Good post

 

[momo83]

First. He ends by saying top 4 is where United should still be aiming for. Which I agree. What’s lowering of the standards is people who are willing to give Ole a free pass and will accept 10th with “give him another window and see what he does”

The concept of what Neville’s talking about makes sense. But he’s point about spine is shortsighted he’s comparing a spine from 20 years ago which was mostly about personalities to the top ones of today where the players shout and talk less but lead by example. What better place to start your spine then De Gea, and also we have Maguire and Pogba, probably need 1-2 more established players.

Anyways the mistake Neville and many on here make, is thinking it’s all about the players. But like he said “ no one could have imagined Van Dyck or Fabinho becoming so great” we can also say the same about Salah, Mane, Farminho, Trent, Robertson, does he or some people on here think Ole would have turned those exact same players into CL winners and league challengers?

 

[devilish]

Not sure about Sharpe, but Beckham played CM a few times when he first came through.

Becks played as CM even with Milan. Giggs played as RW in the CL final against Bayern. I don't recall Sharpe playing as CM though

 

[TRUERED89]

First. He ends by saying top 4 is where United should still be aiming for. Which I agree. What’s lowering of the standards is people who are willing to give Ole a free pass and will accept 10th with “give him another window and see what he does”

The concept of what Neville’s talking about makes sense. But he’s point about spine is shortsighted he’s comparing a spine from 20 years ago which was mostly about personalities to the top ones of today where the players shout and talk less but lead by example. What better place to start your spine then De Gea, and also we have Maguire and Pogba, probably need 1-2 more established players.

Anyways the mistake Neville and many on here make, is thinking it’s all about the players. But like he said “ no one could have imagined Van Dyck or Fabinho becoming so great” we can also say the same about Salah, Mane, Farminho, Trent, Robertson, does he or some people on here think Ole would have turned those exact same players into CL winners and league challengers?

Sack him then yea?

 

[Stacks]

Mate; nobody is accepting mediocrity.

Fans are accepting that the club needs to readopt an identity in order to get back to winning ways. We ain't gonna hire a manager and start winning titles straight away. We hired the man who won titles EVERYWHERE he has been, but even he couldn't win one with us. Our squad is a mess because we keep hiring and firing managers - and the dressingroom is filled with players who don't even compliment each other.

You say fans are accepting mediocrity.

I say fans are accepting that it takes time for one manager to build a philosophy and we must respect that.

Sir Matt took six years before he won a title - and he built it slow.
Sir Alex took six years before he won a title - and he built it slow.

Fans are now willing to accept that it will take some years of struggle and rebuilding before we start winning again.

It's incredibly ignorant of you to not be able to see that.

It is neither the 80's nor the 60s. looking at football through an ancient lense is folly. Arsene Wenger had Arsenal not challenging for a Decade. We'd still have Moyes if we gave everyone 6 years to build which would set us back for another decade.

It's not about winning. Its about maitaining some performance and standard on the pitch. If with these resources, Ole guides us to a 14th place finish I would fully expect a sacking as that embarrassingly bad

 

[TRUERED89]

Becks played as CM even with Milan. Giggs played as RW in the CL final against Bayern. I don't recall Sharpe playing as CM though

Becks also played CM in that CL final..

 

[Tarrou]

I remember Sharpie playing in centre mid a few times one season

Think the graphic is just a mistake though, him and Butt should be switched

 

[devilish]

Becks also played CM in that CL final..

you're right. Beckham was more suited to be a CM then a RW. He never really had that dribbling or explosive pace needed for the RW role. On the other hand he had the physical strength, the vision, the passing skills and he could track back, probably far better then Scholes did. If Beckham wasn't the best crosser the world had ever seen then I am pretty sure he would have ended up as a deep lying playmaker with Scholes as a no 10.

 

[tenpoless]

I want to see Ole succeed here. He's done okay so far and very good when it comes into signing players. But "long term planning" shouldn't be an excuse to cover up for failures. Surely if We are stagnant or even regress year after year, it's not acceptable even if it's Ole ? Let's not wait for the sake of waiting. Long term planning should involve small improvements being made over time.

We'll see. Too early to tell, so many theory crafting. It could be that the board finally have a proper plan for the future. Or They're still as clueless as ever.

 

[TRUERED89]

you're right. Beckham was more suited to be a CM then a RW. He never really had that dribbling or explosive pace needed for the RW role. On the other hand he had the physical strength, the vision, the passing skills and he could track back, probably far better then Scholes did. If Beckham wasn't the best crosser the world had ever seen then I am pretty sure he would have ended up as a deep lying playmaker with Scholes as a no 10.

Becks might not have been lighting quick, but he had an engine that never ran out of fuel. Best set-piece taker, crosser ever, and had a brilliant understanding with G Neville on that right flank. I think he more than held his own on that RW position, SAF hardly ever played 4-3-3 and he was never going to not play Keane, SAF always played with 2 strikers so Scholes wouldn't have been able to play no.10. So I don't think Becks would ever have been a CDM/deep playmaker, he's a legend just where he played. Also saying he's better than Scholes is a stretch, only at crossing but vision and passing (easy there), not to say Becks wasn't amazing, but Scholes is the best, period..

 

[Stacks]

A large portion of the ‘on-line’ fan base though. The vast majority of real life Utd fans are fully behind the manager and can see what he’s doing. I don’t know whether it’s specifically Utd on-line fans, or whether it’s just how it is generally across all clubs. The need for instant gratification is a sad indictment on society.

I don’t want to compare him to Fergie (and it’s something OGS needs to stop doing - referencing his time at the club under SAF), but Fergie would wait for the right player as well.

Time and time again the best teams take time to build, just look at Liverpool - it took 3 years for Klopp to launch a title bid for example.

Funny that when I often hear booing at the games at the end of poor results and then at the fancams there are plenty of disgruntled match going fans who voice their displeasure about every manager we have had including Ole. This top red charade is nauseating.

 

[TRUERED89]

Funny that when I often hear booing at the games at the end of poor results and then at the fancams there are plenty of disgruntled match going fans who voice their displeasure about every manager we have had including Ole. This top red charade is nauseating.

If you watch the fan cams, some people are more toxic than any posters in here. So you cant generalise all match goers and say they're all understanding/patient, they absolutely roast the team.