If Mourinho's authority and ideology were given more backing, would we be challenging?

[Alex99]

The mistake with Mourinho wasn't that we sacked him, it's that we didn't sack him earlier, and then decided not to properly back him in the transfer market.

He should have gone after the Sevilla CL tie, not just because we lost, but because he decided to sit in the post-match press conference and laud over the club that he'd been responsible for us going out at that stage before, so it shouldn't matter that he was responsible for us going out again. Failing that, he should have been replaced at the end of the season.

If we weren't sacking him, then we should have supported him, although I still think we'd have seen him leaving at the end of the season anyway.

 

[Guapa]

No

 

[Moiraine]

Anyone here think we would've challenged either Liverpool or City last season had we bought Harry Maguire last season?

If Perisic was bought as well, we might have been close.

 

[Moiraine]

Move on from Mourinho. He became toxic even before the last season started. He should have been sacked immediately after the club returned from pre-season.

I was really upset at what he said and how he reacted in preseason that year but now I understand his frustration. United's board or Ed or whoever fcuk that was made a terrible mistake of not backing him in transfer window. Should have been backed after we finished 2nd. That mistake will haunt us for next 4-5 years easily. We have dropped massively behind the top tier.

 

[hn4manunited]

Move on from Mourinho. He became toxic even before the last season started. He should have been sacked immediately after the club returned from pre-season.

Oh, believe me. I’ve moved on long time ago! The question is have everyone else moved on

I’m enjoying seeing him elsewhere and i’m also focused on handling the misery that we’re in which to be honest I expected and predicted when we sacked Jose and have said many times. Our real problem is the people above him in the organization. Good managers/coaches can mask those problems for a while but inexperienced managers like Ole will be exposed. Not saying I don’t support Ole. I just don’t think firing him will solve our problem because the bigger problem is elsewhere.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Dear god.

 

[filibuster]

There is a reason why top players with incredible work ethics and professionalism loved Mourinho. Here you can insert a long list of top players with winning mentality who would have died on the pitch for him. There is a reason why players were crying when he was sacked first time at Chelsea and when he left Inter.

Jose is driven by performance and can't tolerate "divas" in football. His problem in modern football is that players are "brands" now and not simple players anymore. He can't truly challenge an established star in order to get more hunger, more aggression like he used to do because now that star will take offence and sulk and start stirring **** behind his back.

Love him or hate him, but he was always a true professional, who just wants the same from his players. And yes, being only nice to your players maybe will get you somewhere, but not very far, that's for sure.

Imagine SAF handling 4-5 Beckhams all at once. Now add the social media of each "Beckham" on top of that. Would SAF succeded in these circumstances? I am not so sure.

 

[hn4manunited]

There is a reason why top players with incredible work ethics and professionalism loved Mourinho. Here you can insert a long list of top players with winning mentality who would have died on the pitch for him. There is a reason why players were crying when he was sacked first time at Chelsea and when he left Inter.

Jose is driven by performance and can't tolerate "divas" in football. His problem in modern football is that players are "brands" now and not simple players anymore. He can't truly challenge an established star in order to get more hunger, more aggression like he used to do because now that star will take offence and sulk and start stirring **** behind his back.

Love him or hate him, but he was always a true professional, who just wants the same from his players. And yes, being only nice to your players maybe will get you somewhere, but not very far, that's for sure.

Imagine SAF handling 4-5 Beckhams all at once. Now add the social media of each "Beckham" on top of that. Would SAF succeded in these circumstances? I am not so sure.

good post.

 

[Lee565]

It was lvg out of all the 4 managers post fergie that I would have had more confidence of coming good had we given his authority and ideology backing.

 

[VP89]

There is a reason why top players with incredible work ethics and professionalism loved Mourinho. Here you can insert a long list of top players with winning mentality who would have died on the pitch for him. There is a reason why players were crying when he was sacked first time at Chelsea and when he left Inter.

Jose is driven by performance and can't tolerate "divas" in football. His problem in modern football is that players are "brands" now and not simple players anymore. He can't truly challenge an established star in order to get more hunger, more aggression like he used to do because now that star will take offence and sulk and start stirring **** behind his back.

Love him or hate him, but he was always a true professional, who just wants the same from his players. And yes, being only nice to your players maybe will get you somewhere, but not very far, that's for sure.

Imagine SAF handling 4-5 Beckhams all at once. Now add the social media of each "Beckham" on top of that. Would SAF succeded in these circumstances? I am not so sure.

A good post that won't get you far in the caf.

Mourinho was toxic and that's the end of it, apparently.

 

[UncleBob]

There is a reason why top players with incredible work ethics and professionalism loved Mourinho. Here you can insert a long list of top players with winning mentality who would have died on the pitch for him. There is a reason why players were crying when he was sacked first time at Chelsea and when he left Inter.

Jose is driven by performance and can't tolerate "divas" in football. His problem in modern football is that players are "brands" now and not simple players anymore. He can't truly challenge an established star in order to get more hunger, more aggression like he used to do because now that star will take offence and sulk and start stirring **** behind his back.

Love him or hate him, but he was always a true professional, who just wants the same from his players. And yes, being only nice to your players maybe will get you somewhere, but not very far, that's for sure.

Imagine SAF handling 4-5 Beckhams all at once. Now add the social media of each "Beckham" on top of that. Would SAF succeded in these circumstances? I am not so sure.

 

[Zoo]

No, he is all about the second season but unfortunately that time around at United for him was against Pep’s City team. It’s the same formula for him every time which is why he admitted that he deserved to be sacked.

 

[RedWat]

I would say the answer to this is no however I have more of a respect of JM achievements at Utd, than I did before this season began.

Jose’s usual template when he enters a club is that he would win the domestic league by the 2nd season and is usually gone by the 3rd season when his relationship with the club self destructs.

At Utd in his first season won the Europa & English League cups, in his second season normally the title winning season Utd finished second and of course as usual gone by the third.

Jose said that getting Utd to 2nd was his greatest achievement. I’m starting to believe that he was right.

The toxicity Jose normally sows when he joins a new club that gradually grows to choke the life out of playing staff by season 3 would have put paid to any progress that would have been made, however unlike Ole Jm had an system that guarantees short term success which gleaned Utd 2 trophies and a 2nd place with a very poor team. Sadly Ole with no apparent system is unlikely to surpass Jm’s achievement.

 

[Maccataq]

I am beginning to regret his sacking now.
I think it was really stupid of our board and CEO for not backing him fully in transfer market (not buying a central defender and a winger i.e. Perisic). I think he was right not to trust of the likes of Rashford, Martial, Shaw

We really fcuked up and paid the price of not having a footballing person Incharge of our transfers.

It was the right decision to sack him because he made his position untenable. The West Ham game was pure sabotage and I cannot believe we didn't sack him right there and then. The atmosphere at the club was toxic.

Mourinho was never right for this club; he is too narcissistic, had no trust in youth and no desire to play attacking football plus the game has moved on whilst he hadn't. LVG said Martial was a gift to the next manager and also you have to say so was Rashford but both regressed under Mourinho and Jose must take responsibility for player development as manager.

That said, I agree with you that it was stupid for the board not to back him, especially after giving him a new contract. We clearly were in for Maguire last summer evidenced by Rojo changing his number to free up the no.5 - it seems ridiculous that we were unwilling to pay the money for him back then only to pay more a year later.

 

[Canagel]

There is a reason why top players with incredible work ethics and professionalism loved Mourinho. Here you can insert a long list of top players with winning mentality who would have died on the pitch for him. There is a reason why players were crying when he was sacked first time at Chelsea and when he left Inter.

Jose is driven by performance and can't tolerate "divas" in football. His problem in modern football is that players are "brands" now and not simple players anymore. He can't truly challenge an established star in order to get more hunger, more aggression like he used to do because now that star will take offence and sulk and start stirring **** behind his back.

Love him or hate him, but he was always a true professional, who just wants the same from his players. And yes, being only nice to your players maybe will get you somewhere, but not very far, that's for sure.

Imagine SAF handling 4-5 Beckhams all at once. Now add the social media of each "Beckham" on top of that. Would SAF succeded in these circumstances? I am not so sure.

All the top coaches are working with modern players it's a lazy excuse for him. He got paid very very well to fail. So he did what he does the best: deflecting attention from his failure and the awful job that he was doing.

 

[TrustInOle]

There is a reason why top players with incredible work ethics and professionalism loved Mourinho. Here you can insert a long list of top players with winning mentality who would have died on the pitch for him. There is a reason why players were crying when he was sacked first time at Chelsea and when he left Inter.

Jose is driven by performance and can't tolerate "divas" in football. His problem in modern football is that players are "brands" now and not simple players anymore. He can't truly challenge an established star in order to get more hunger, more aggression like he used to do because now that star will take offence and sulk and start stirring **** behind his back.

Love him or hate him, but he was always a true professional, who just wants the same from his players. And yes, being only nice to your players maybe will get you somewhere, but not very far, that's for sure.

Imagine SAF handling 4-5 Beckhams all at once. Now add the social media of each "Beckham" on top of that. Would SAF succeded in these circumstances? I am not so sure.

I completely agree with this, add to the fact being at United instantly increases your 'brand'its not hard to see players having alterior motivation for coming here. In return, making the cycle worse.

 

[Moiraine]

It was the right decision to sack him because he made his position untenable. The West Ham game was pure sabotage and I cannot believe we didn't sack him right there and then. The atmosphere at the club was toxic.

Mourinho was never right for this club; he is too narcissistic, had no trust in youth and no desire to play attacking football plus the game has moved on whilst he hadn't. LVG said Martial was a gift to the next manager and also you have to say so was Rashford but both regressed under Mourinho and Jose must take responsibility for player development as manager.

That said, I agree with you that it was stupid for the board not to back him, especially after giving him a new contract. We clearly were in for Maguire last summer evidenced by Rojo changing his number to free up the no.5 - it seems ridiculous that we were unwilling to pay the money for him back then only to pay more a year later.

I think he did trust youth in the beginning. He tried to go toe-to-toe with City if you remember in his first meeting against them, Playing Lingard and Mikhitaryan on wings and we got battered in every department. Midfield was toyed with and he lost all the confidence in attacking football with those players. He tried to change the team year by year but then our stupid fcuking board/CEO just didn't understood the problem which is now really obvious that half of this team is just not good enough.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Should have sacked him after his second season because he generally torches the place after that.

 

[M16Red]

Maybe, but I wouldn't be watching the games I'd be asleep,

 

[el3mel]

Thought about it myself the other day but I reckon it went past the point of no return with Jose, in terms of his relationship with the higher ups and some of the players.
I hope I’m wrong but I’m afraid Jose’s first two seasons would look like the treble season in comparison with where we’re heading, I really want to be wrong on this one.

I think that's what would happen. 2-3 years from now and his 2 full seasons will be looked at by far more respect than how they are looked at now. The worst is yet to come.

 

[tjb]

I don't think Mourinho is a bad manager, in fact I still think he is great, one of the top 5 even in the world, but he just wasnt going to fit in a club that has as many traditions and fans as we do. We were in two different places. Mourinho chasing his legacy wasn't and would not have been fully engaged in rebuilding the team. He's too mature and respected in his career for that. Utd did not want to deal with his ego. It was simply a relationship that wasn't meant to be.

But Mourinho was right on almost everything he said about the squad. Our squad has been far poorer than our fans would like to believe. Players like martial and rashford have never proven anything in their respective careers. Guys like Lingard still start too regularly for us. People assumed mourinho being defensive made us deficient in attack. but the truth was, his attack wasn't good enough to even attack when given the opportunities. There were many games where teams sat off us, and the same thing happening now and that happened under LVG occured.

 

[friendlytramp]

Yes. The issue stemmed from Jose not being backed in the market. What he did then in trying to make a point (basically trying to get sacked) was totally unacceptable but it all stemmed from him not being backed. (It would have taken huge amounts of cash though)

 

[filibuster]

Look, I also wanted him sacked in his last "3rd" season with us. But not because he was a bad manager, or because of his tactics. I wanted him gone because it was the only way to go forward.

Mourinho builds trust with his players and when everything goes south and the trust is gone, it can't be recovered, because he is a perfectionist. I remember wondering at that time, what if the board has the balls to get him back in the summer after selling the players he fell out with and recoup their value to reinvest in his targets.

All his 3 seasons with United were very similar to Chelsea's 2nd spell. The first season was about assessing the team and getting some leaders in like Ibra, or Etoo in Chelsea's case. 2nd season is his punch season when he knows the team and knows what to get in to improve it fast and compete. You would have won the title in the 2nd season if there wasn't for City with their stacked squad in all departments.

The 3rd season was a bit different for United compared to Chelsea. At Chelsea, Jose and the board believed too much in the team after winning the title so we got only Pedro in that transfer window. The rest was history, key players came back unfit resting on their previous season's laurels, Jose went under immense pressure from the media, and it was just a cloud of negativity with no exit. He was sacked late, which means the board understood the circumstances, but in the end, had no choice but to sack him.

At United, the 3rd season should have been about another try to improve fast the team, similar to the 2nd season, with a shrewd transfer window. And I believe the board wanted to do that, that's why they agreed on a new contract, but then failed to deliver on the commitment after seeing the inflated market for key positions, as well as the age of some desired players. And here was, in my opinion, the big mistake made by the board. Chelsea also did it, with Antonio Conte, and it seems that was a lesson learned because in similar circumstances they decided to part ways with Sarri, instead of delaying the transfer ban to get his targets.

You see, a manger, with all his experience, has a vision of a team and what it needs to perform in accordance with his philosophy, and what both United did with Jose and Chelsea with Conte isn't acceptable, you either commit, or you don't. And before some of you mention the age of some desired players Jose wanted and the fact that those players would need replacing in the future, you forget how important experience is. Look at your team now, there are no leaders, it looks like a kindergarten squad with kindergarten mentality across the board. Who are the young players looking up to? Pogba?

P.S. sorry for the long post. I just have limited numbers

 

[Sylar]

The mistake with Mourinho wasn't that we sacked him, it's that we didn't sack him earlier, and then decided not to properly back him in the transfer market.

He should have gone after the Sevilla CL tie, not just because we lost, but because he decided to sit in the post-match press conference and laud over the club that he'd been responsible for us going out at that stage before, so it shouldn't matter that he was responsible for us going out again. Failing that, he should have been replaced at the end of the season.

If we weren't sacking him, then we should have supported him, although I still think we'd have seen him leaving at the end of the season anyway.

It was such a bizarre period. Going into that second season, we got Lukaku, Matic and Lindelof. But then wouldnt pay the extra 5m for Perisic. It made no sense not to just get him and back Jose properly on this. Get somebody who can get goals and assists (which imo would have benefited Lukaku as well)

Half way through the second season we extended his contract and I was thinking, ok, we have a plan for the summer, so keeping him longer term there is a plan in place. ... nope.

But then that Sevilla match turned me off him. Until then I thought he was taking us on slowly. But the set up in the home leg was cowardice. And then the press conference compounded it. And then the FA Cup set up was the icing on a turdcake.
And then we only got Fred in to bridge the gap between us and City. It was madness.

We should have either backed him or sacked him (earlier).

 

[mariachi-19]

There is a reason why top players with incredible work ethics and professionalism loved Mourinho. Here you can insert a long list of top players with winning mentality who would have died on the pitch for him. There is a reason why players were crying when he was sacked first time at Chelsea and when he left Inter.

Jose is driven by performance and can't tolerate "divas" in football. His problem in modern football is that players are "brands" now and not simple players anymore. He can't truly challenge an established star in order to get more hunger, more aggression like he used to do because now that star will take offence and sulk and start stirring **** behind his back.

Love him or hate him, but he was always a true professional, who just wants the same from his players. And yes, being only nice to your players maybe will get you somewhere, but not very far, that's for sure.

Imagine SAF handling 4-5 Beckhams all at once. Now add the social media of each "Beckham" on top of that. Would SAF succeded in these circumstances? I am not so sure.

Without a hesitaition of a doubt becuase the players coming into the team would be out on their arse like every player who was like that during his tenure. Unless you are Cantona, there's no leeway.

 

[Sylar]

Also losing Zlatan was a big thing for Jose. Zlatan seemed like a middle man between Jose and players like Pogba. Shame he got injured when he did

 

[Relevated]

Without a hesitaition of a doubt becuase the players coming into the team would be out on their arse like every player who was like that during his tenure. Unless you are Cantona, there's no leeway.

I think he meant if that was the norm in all of football. Nowadays you can't move someone on just because they're a superstar, it's becoming the norm.

 

[Nucks]

If he was fully backed long term after we finished, no, BUT, I don't think it would be a stretch to say we'd be in spitting distance of Liverpool and City, comfortably in limbo in 3rd. Liverpool remember, finished below us, and I won't say that we would have maintained that lead on them, as they've had a revolution of sorts with their signings the last few seasons. However, I also don't think we'd have collapsed as completely as we have. I think we'd be sitting in that limbo area, below Pool and City, and above the rest. With one or two inspired signings away from catapulting us into the race.

 

[Tyrion]

No I don't think so, I don't think he could challenge teams that finish on 95+ points.

That said I think a real Mourinho team can still be successful, he will probably show that in his next job. I think while we still had zlatan and he still had the dressing room as a result we were quite effective

I agree with this. I don't think he could have competed with this City side without being more ambitious and he doesn't play like that.

 

[UncleBob]

If he was fully backed long term after we finished, no, BUT, I don't think it would be a stretch to say we'd be in spitting distance of Liverpool and City, comfortably in limbo in 3rd. Liverpool remember, finished below us, and I won't say that we would have maintained that lead on them, as they've had a revolution of sorts with their signings the last few seasons. However, I also don't think we'd have collapsed as completely as we have. I think we'd be sitting in that limbo area, below Pool and City, and above the rest. With one or two inspired signings away from catapulting us into the race.

It's a poor excuse. Mourinho has a long history of falling out with the majority of players at the various clubs he's been at, the two exceptions are Inter and Porto, even Cristiano Ronaldo loathes Mourinho. Ferguson stated that he needed to adapt, that he had to find new ways to motivate players, which is hardly a surprise given the obvious fact that wages + bonuses + PR income has increased a lot. Even youth players are making millions these days.

 

[Nucks]

No, Jose was a miserable cnut who plays BORING defensive football. He is inferior to Pep in coaching and footballing philosophy and we would never outspend them. All the backing in the world wouldn't have changed that.

Inter Milan knocked Barcelona out of the CL in 2010, peak of Barcelonas power.

 

[BaneIsPain]

Getting 2nd with that squad is not a normal feat (despite miles behind the league winner). I think he can do it again but the fallout would be just too big for Ed to handle.
Pogba definitely gone by end of last season.

 

[Son]

If he was backed here like he was at Chelsea first 2 years no doubt we’d be challenging. Would have taken 3-4 years of big investment.

United have never spent those sums however. It’s not possible for us to spend that type of money either with our debt and been ran like an actual business.

I believe Mourinho could still win a European cup if he gets the resources of Pep, Tuchel etc... the mans a genius tactically. I wouldn’t ever bet against him in a one-off game.

Not a fan of his football but he did a good job winning us a few trophies with the squad at the time.

 

[Skills]

If he was backed here like he was at Chelsea first 2 years no doubt we’d be challenging. Would have taken 3-4 years of big investment.

United have never spent those sums however. It’s not possible for us to spend that type of money either with our debt and been ran like an actual business.

I believe Mourinho could still win a European cup if he gets the resources of Pep, Tuchel etc... the mans a genius tactically. I wouldn’t ever bet against him in a one-off game.

Not a fan of his football but he did a good job winning us a few trophies with the squad at the time.

You mean in his first tenure when he spent more than Arsenal, Liverpool and United combined? I'd say it's more difficult to not be challenging in that scenario.

 

[Son]

You mean in his first tenure when he spent more than Arsenal, Liverpool and United combined? I'd say it's more difficult to not be challenging in that scenario.

Yes he spent lots. He turned his teams into winning machines though.

No matter how much he spent he is one of the true greats of football who can still do a job. His treble win with Inter still eclipses anything Pep has ever done imo. I prefer Pep as a manager btw the football is awesome. That game between City and Tottenham last season was ridiculous and so was the Monaco - City match a few years back.

Jose needs to go back to Madrid. I imagine he could win them a La Liga or 2 in the current climate.

 

[UncleBob]

If he was backed here like he was at Chelsea first 2 years no doubt we’d be challenging. Would have taken 3-4 years of big investment.

United have never spent those sums however. It’s not possible for us to spend that type of money either with our debt and been ran like an actual business.

I believe Mourinho could still win a European cup if he gets the resources of Pep, Tuchel etc... the mans a genius tactically. I wouldn’t ever bet against him in a one-off game.

Not a fan of his football but he did a good job winning us a few trophies with the squad at the time.

We've spent £850mill since Fergie retired, some very expensive free transfers and then throw in that we have the 4th highest wages in football. Mourinho spent £370mill of those £850mill, not to mention his free transfers

 

[UncleBob]

Yes he spent lots. He turned his teams into winning machines though.

No matter how much he spent he is one of the true greats of football who can still do a job. His treble win with Inter still eclipses anything Pep has ever done imo. I prefer Pep as a manager btw the football is awesome. That game between City and Tottenham last season was ridiculous and so was the Monaco - City match a few years back.

Jose needs to go back to Madrid. I imagine he could win them a La Liga or 2 in the current climate.

Real Madrid are already top of the league under Zidane.

 

[RedRonaldo]

His 3rd season has always been bad, or tragic, regardless.

 

[hn4manunited]

We've spent £850mill since Fergie retired, some very expensive free transfers and then throw in that we have the 4th highest wages in football. Mourinho spent £370mill of those £850mill, not to mention his free transfers

that is assuming those were spent by him. You can say Zlatan was for sure his. Matic was his. Others, no one knows for sure.

 

[hn4manunited]

His 3rd season has always been bad, or tragic, regardless.

Not true. Try again.