Yeah, like I said, the reasons why they were both benched for so long initially are open to conjecture and your interpretation is valid. But my views are different to yours - that's how it is when discussing a topic that none of us can be completely sure about.
If Mourinho's authority and ideology were given more backing, would we be challenging?
- Thread starter DeGea
- Start date
No, you were wrong to tell people they were crazy to suggest that maybe his comments didn't tell the whole story and that players often say things to save face when a move falls through. You're not getting this are you?!
Imagine if we'd given him Pep style money.
We'd have Perisic and Willian on the wings, and probably 2x50m 30-32 year old full backs.
His style of footy had run out of gas.
We'd have Perisic and Willian on the wings, and probably 2x50m 30-32 year old full backs.
His style of footy had run out of gas.
Bit exaggerated, that. And even then, I don't know if I'd be upset with it if it happened. Perisic is at Bayern and they just thrashed Spurs 2-7 at their own home!
Like the lizard people.
Again, it's not new that some players need more time to settle in and they don't play much during that period, nor is it uncommon that managers make mistakes or struggle to find the right position and strategy for a player they've just signed. You just like to believe it because it supports another theory you have.
Mourinho loathes it when others get involved with transfers, it's his domain, and he rarely misses the opportunity to "wash his hands" in public, and we're to believe that during his 2,5 seasons at the club he never even gave the slighest hint about the club signing players he didn't really want ? Good one.
I think we'd be a very secure third. Jose was doomed the second Woodward the idiot released a press statement saying the targets weren't good enough and he knew better...top marks for how to light a fuse under a guy known for tantrums whilst simultaneously eroding his authority in the eyes of the players.
also giving him a new contract then spending the same amount of money as the team we finished 32 points behind whilst Liverpool drop 100m more showed the club didn't match his ambition. people expect every signing a manager makes to be a success, look at how much city have spent on fullbacks, and still scouting....
The dye was cast that summer
also giving him a new contract then spending the same amount of money as the team we finished 32 points behind whilst Liverpool drop 100m more showed the club didn't match his ambition. people expect every signing a manager makes to be a success, look at how much city have spent on fullbacks, and still scouting....
The dye was cast that summer
It is easy to get obsessed with young players because you always look at the potential first. But the experience, especially in title-winning teams, is very important.
It gives you the know-how of a title pursuit, and it gives more resilience and mental strength that translates to the young players as well. Willian would have been a good investment for you, even if he played only 2 seasons. You would have gotten him for a 3-year contract most likely and sell him before his 3rd season. He is a famous Brazilian player, suitors from all other the world would pay at least half you would have gotten him for.
Instead, you got Sanchez, the same age as Willian. Meanwhile, Willian is still starting games for us and is arguably one of our top 5 performing players.
It gives you the know-how of a title pursuit, and it gives more resilience and mental strength that translates to the young players as well. Willian would have been a good investment for you, even if he played only 2 seasons. You would have gotten him for a 3-year contract most likely and sell him before his 3rd season. He is a famous Brazilian player, suitors from all other the world would pay at least half you would have gotten him for.
Instead, you got Sanchez, the same age as Willian. Meanwhile, Willian is still starting games for us and is arguably one of our top 5 performing players.
But I didn't say that people were crazy for suggesting that he didn't tell the whole story. I'm not even sure if I ever argued that point. I had a conversation with Kag where I said that in general it was more realist to believe a player than a journalist because the latters routinely make things up as part of their job.
@Kag, I apologize you were the realist.
You can never have enough left wingers. Having someone on the right is overrated.
*Man tells another man he is wrong about a topic that he himself has no definitive information about*
You're struggling with the concept of opinion aren't you mate?
He's worked at Chelsea (twice) and Real Madrid - I think he's pretty well versed in working with players that he didn't specifically choose himself. I think it's pretty clear that during his time at United he became progressively more disillusioned with the way that club was run.
400M on 11 players is a staggering amount and I'd be floored if any guarantees were given past that.
He actually betrayed United by setting a target for himself, subsequently moving his own goalposts (I can't stress this enough), and then blaming everyone by himself.
Yes, we would be up there.
Yes, that's exactly what you said. You refused to accept that there was any possibility of a narrative outside of those few lines that Perisic uttered when the window closed and it became clear that he was staying at Inter. You and I debated it for pages - I'd find the quotes if I could be arsed.
I made a Would You Take Him Back? thread 2 hours after Mourinho got fired and the thread was taken down while I got a warning from the mods. Now it gets 20 pages of debate.
No, our relationship with him was on collision course midway through his second season and everybody could see it except for Woodward who offered him a new contract. Mourinho's short-terminism (which has served him well in the past) demands of the board to rejuvenate the spine of the first team every three years. So, when he said that 82 points is an achievement for this squad and that there was no way it could push for the title should the PL continued to be decided on 95+ points, he knew what he was talking about (from his own pov).
Where it would have all gone wrong, if we had chosen to indulge him, was when he would bring ready-made solutions and pushed Rashford/Martial and others into a more peripheral role. This place would go berserk and the atmosphere would become unbearable in no time simply because it would still be very difficult to compete against Klopp and Pep both in terms of results and entertainment.
Personally, i think he would have built an attack around Lukaku. The "three" in his 4231 would be burdened with carrying the ball through the lines and once we got into the final third, we would look to place crosses in the box against organized dwfences. Thus the links with Wilian and Perisic. It would not be very pleasing to the eye but it's certainly a very pragmatic assessment of our current squad's capabilities. And since the Caf agrees that the squad is poor and Ole shouldn't be blamed, i'd argue that it was a fair assessment too. The only problem seems to be who to get: a 30 year-old Perisic apparently is good enough for Bayern, our fan-base prefers a 20 year-old player from the Championship (with all due respect to the kid who's working his socks off).
Anyway, Mourinho wanted runners with the ball on the wings instead of Rashford/Martial and the fact that a hard working James looks like a proper player is an indication that he had a point. Mourinho was desperate for a player who could make a difference in between the lines (Miki, Sanchez) and although his choices were failures, Ole's decision to put faith in Lingard, Mata, Pereira was plain wrong.
In other words, our current predicament indicates that his lack of faith in this squad was correct. It's basically the best defence of Ole one can make atm, that the team is poor. But the changes he proposed would serve him best and not the team. We need a modern approach and fresh ideas, not hoof balls towards the target man.
Where it would have all gone wrong, if we had chosen to indulge him, was when he would bring ready-made solutions and pushed Rashford/Martial and others into a more peripheral role. This place would go berserk and the atmosphere would become unbearable in no time simply because it would still be very difficult to compete against Klopp and Pep both in terms of results and entertainment.
Personally, i think he would have built an attack around Lukaku. The "three" in his 4231 would be burdened with carrying the ball through the lines and once we got into the final third, we would look to place crosses in the box against organized dwfences. Thus the links with Wilian and Perisic. It would not be very pleasing to the eye but it's certainly a very pragmatic assessment of our current squad's capabilities. And since the Caf agrees that the squad is poor and Ole shouldn't be blamed, i'd argue that it was a fair assessment too. The only problem seems to be who to get: a 30 year-old Perisic apparently is good enough for Bayern, our fan-base prefers a 20 year-old player from the Championship (with all due respect to the kid who's working his socks off).
Anyway, Mourinho wanted runners with the ball on the wings instead of Rashford/Martial and the fact that a hard working James looks like a proper player is an indication that he had a point. Mourinho was desperate for a player who could make a difference in between the lines (Miki, Sanchez) and although his choices were failures, Ole's decision to put faith in Lingard, Mata, Pereira was plain wrong.
In other words, our current predicament indicates that his lack of faith in this squad was correct. It's basically the best defence of Ole one can make atm, that the team is poor. But the changes he proposed would serve him best and not the team. We need a modern approach and fresh ideas, not hoof balls towards the target man.
Nah, it's just that some opinions are shit.
Which players didn't he choose at Chelsea ? Shevchenko ? Yes, he sure as hell kept quiet about that one
You should read into what happened at Real Madrid, who resigned and why, the the power Mourinho was given at the club by Perez.You won't get 11 players now for 400million. You might get 4 TOP players.
I don't disagree with these facts, just trying to explain a few from Mourinho's crazy POV
Why on earth do people pretend City and United have the same spending power? City would probably spend twice as much as they do now if it wasn't for FFP. At this point you are just fishing for excuses.
Why do you posters continually state his accomplishments without context. First, Europa and the LC are minor trophies. If any other big club were touting this as an achievement they would be laughed at. Secondly, that 2nd place league finish had United closer to 5th than 1st WITHOUT a title challenge (he never managed a single one during his tenure). Lastly, how did he do in the CL? Are you going to completely ignore his results in order to prop him up?
He also asked for Toby Alderweireld, Yerry Mina, and Jerome Boateng...
Again comparing the spending between City and United is foolish. United are NOT as rich as City regardless of their valuation.
Fair
Did we challenge?
feck me, this is the kind of guy you want in a forum for debate!
Are you genuinely trying to argue that the managers make all the decisions on playing staff at Chelsea?!Which players didn't he choose at Chelsea ? Shevchenko ? Yes, he sure as hell kept quiet about that one
Why am I not surprised you are arguing semantics? He DID turn down United regardless if wanted to play for the club or not. So the narrative Woodward vetoed the transfer is still WRONG. Not sure what you puffing your chest out for.
Thanks for your input, but I have resolved not to bother with Glazer shills from now on.
Did he?
“It was difficult to say no to him.
From the same interview. So he said no to Jose. He said both things, that he really wanted to play for ManUtd and also it was difficult decision to say no to Jose.
Anyways managers missing out on players is nothing new. It will always happen. When the whole era is poor we have to highlight every little detail and look for excuses.
I don't understand the argument some are making. The first line in that quote is he said no.
Exactly. He said he wanted to play for ManUtd and also that it was difficult to say No to Jose. What exactly is the argument.I don't understand the argument some are making. The first line in that quote is he said no.
I really didn't, I said that some of your claims weren't factual and they still aren't. You had a long argument with someone else though.
You're missing the rest of the quote:
“In fact, I really, really wanted to join him and play for United.
“It was a dream of mine to play in all the big leagues. But it didn’t happen.
“It was painful for me. But I don’t want to go into the details.
“I only found out myself the real reasons two years later.”
From that it is pretty clear that it wasn't his decision.
He changed his tune in the sense that initially it was totally his decision and now there are details that he can't share. The last point makes it difficult to discuss that transfer which ironically is what I told Rusholme in May.
So he said it was difficult to say No to Jose but it's not his decision? Was he forced to say no then?
I don't even know why people care about 1 transfer so much. Like I said when the results are poor, we have to look for excuses.
Jose Mourinho said:
https://www.skysports.com/football/...nited-are-ready-for-a-serious-title-challengeJose Mourinho said:
Yeah, he definitely did not want the players he bought. Truth hurts.
It's pretty clear from his "I only found out myself the real reasons (for the transfer not happening) two years later" comment that there was stuff going on in the background and other forces at work. Clearly not a situation where United made an offer that was acceptable to Inter and the player turned it down.
So he said no Jose and found the reason 2 seasons later. While we didn't make acceptable offer somehow with great difficulty he said no to Jose.
Hard to read what Perisic means by the last sentence how he found out 2 years later. He'll probably elaborate more once retired.
Before he said the manager at the time convinced him to stay and challenge Juve. We could speculate what happened, perhaps Inter mislead him about the contract or price we offered, what he'd get at Inter that hasn't materialized and he's been let go two years later.
Before he said the manager at the time convinced him to stay and challenge Juve. We could speculate what happened, perhaps Inter mislead him about the contract or price we offered, what he'd get at Inter that hasn't materialized and he's been let go two years later.
What was, and is, fact is that what players might say after a transfer has fallen through is not a reliable indicator of exactly what has taken place. And that has been borne out by Perisic's most recent interview. It's clear from that that at the time he didn't even know exactly why the transfer had not taken place, which just adds more fuel to the notion that he was just giving a generic 'I love Inter, I never wanted to leave' type interview in the immediate aftermath.
No but we finished 2nd. The higher up the table you finish, the more prize money you get, the more sponsorship money it unlocks, the more revenue the following season you get.
Therefore, the board would and owners would prefer a 2nd place finish than a 6th.
Some folks don't want to admit it. They'd rather just take the easy route and blame the guy that's gone. It's telling in his interviews, he's genuinely sad at what's happening to United, and there's so much dirt on Woodward that's just hidden