Not true at all.
Liverpool then had significant reinforcements to fill their weak gaps. Mourinho was denied such.
You’re making stuff up to suit your narrative.
If Mourinho's authority and ideology were given more backing, would we be challenging?
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Liverpool then had significant reinforcements to fill their weak gaps. Mourinho was denied such.
You’re making stuff up to suit your narrative.
Mourinho haters only use opinionated hyperbole because they know they cant deal in data and facts.
We certainly could not be much worse. Jose quoted this weekend as saying buying Fred was not his decision
Actually I can just about believe that!
Fred (at least so far) has shown none of the attributes that would attract Mourinho's attention and I couldn't understand the decision at the time.
So, who did decide then and on what basis?
Since Mourinho's gone and it wasn't him (if we believe his story) so whoever it was must still be there and presumably still involved in transfers. No, surely not Ed Woodward, can you believe that, he hires a dog then barks himself?
Nope.
The only club he hadn't been at before was Juventus.
Absolutely right. Lost opportunity.
So the usual vocal Jose didn’t want Fred but went all quite when told that they were trying sign him?
Anyone really believe that?
It’s not like we weren’t spending £50m.
Jose to Ed...”I don’t want this £50 player your buying. I won’t use him and I don’t rate him”
Ed “Yes you do want him, Jose. You just don’t know it yet”
Not sure I believe.
Anyone really believe that?
It’s not like we weren’t spending £50m.
Jose to Ed...”I don’t want this £50 player your buying. I won’t use him and I don’t rate him”
Ed “Yes you do want him, Jose. You just don’t know it yet”
Not sure I believe.
Got a link to this? I remember at the time being baffled when a player like Fred came in under Jose's reign.
It makes sense because that's basically how most of our big money transfers have gone under Woodward.
Mata, Falcao, Di Maria, Mkhitaryan, Pogba, Fred and Sanchez were all signings where it was clearly Woodward going to the manager and saying "I think we can sign x, do you want him?".
Whereas you can see Moyes was desperate to sign Baines and Fellaini. LVG was absolutely the driver behind Blind, Darmian and Depay (and probably Schweinsteiger). Mourinho was the driver behind Dalot, Matic, Ibrah, Bailly and Lindelof.
The bold is where the managers say “No”
Jose clearly didn’t so coming out saying he didn’t want him now sounds like rubbish to me.
Yeah it still doesnt reflect great on Mourinho whatever the truth is, but overall it points to what we've already heard from LVG and Mourinho and from elsewhere, that there are huge disconnects between who the club scouts put forward and who the manager's team put forward. And an even bigger disconnect between the football staff and the board, who are/were only really interested in proportioning all of the transfer money on big name signings for commercial growth.
Why did the clubs who hired him before didn't hire him again? Why the clubs like Bayern, PSG didn't sack the manager to hire winner like Jose?
Apart from Chelsea you mean where he delivered PL titles both times.
Nice deflection. We are talking about Jose after ManUtd sacked him.
That is not what you said in your previous post.
And it is not a deflection. It is a fact.
Since it's a quote you should have no problem posting it
Eh? This was the post and it was in reply to conversation about big clubs not hiring him and the reply was they already had managers.
I wonder if City weren't in for both Fred and Sanchez would they have been signed for United? You can just imagine Ed saying "Pep wants both of them, I'm gonna feck him up and show him who's boss." Pep is probably laughing his tats off at us now. If I was Pep I'd start spreading rumours about some shite player that City are (not) desperate to sign and watch Ed jump in and offer £20m more.
Let's see what Jose will do in the summer. It's obvious that he has had offers but not from a big club that he would accept that's big enough for him.
Yes I think Jose was right. What bothered me was that he bought Matic when he was past it.
The implosion of Jose was partly due to the Board refusing to buy the players he wanted that summer and partly because of Pogba.
He is a very talented player no doubt but every summer he has wanted out. I have a guy feeling he is going to do the same thing this season too.
I think if Jose got Maguire and another midfield player he would get this team in the CL spot for sure.
Put in a top striker and he may have even won it.
Yes I think Jose was right. What bothered me was that he bought Matic when he was past it.
The implosion of Jose was partly due to the Board refusing to buy the players he wanted that summer and partly because of Pogba.
He is a very talented player no doubt but every summer he has wanted out. I have a guy feeling he is going to do the same thing this season too.
I think if Jose got Maguire and another midfield player he would get this team in the CL spot for sure.
Put in a top striker and he may have even won it.
Eh. Read your previous post because that was the one I was responding to.
Anyway. This is becoming tedious and serves no purpose.
You have your view and I have mine.
Spoken like someone who knows what they are taking about.
I am not at all surprised that people find Jose so divisive. He is what he is, a highly intelligent and hugely successful manager.
What I find surprising are the number of people who completely write off that 2nd place finish as if it either didn't happen or it was some kind of fluke.
Anyway. He is in the past and our future does not look at all promising.
It was obvious it wasn't his signing and many said the same during this time too. He played the first 2 games then got immediately dropped for Fellaini when things went bad. Mourinho usually has big patience for his own signings.
Fred was usually a scouting signing. Way too obvious.
Read the whole conversation instead of taking one post out of context. Worse part is you were part of that conversation but still took it out of context. The very first post you quoted was about since Jose was sacked in Dec 2018.
Although I didn't like Mourinho's ways I would have to answer YES to this question.
He is a winner and if he had got what he wanted, I think we would have won more trophies under him, tbh.
He is a winner and if he had got what he wanted, I think we would have won more trophies under him, tbh.
It's a weird argument, there's about 20 different opinions on here about the same subjects, you're constantly bound to find a chunk of people who will believe something no matter how daft it is.
There's nothing fundamental about Fred that says he's not a player that Mourinho wanted.
I'm not a fan of the term fluke but that season wasn't repeatable, we had the seventh highest amount of saves in the league, De Gea had a very high save rate and from memory we had the 6th amount of chances created. That's why many people suggested that we weren't on the right path because we were going to regress toward the mean which would have seen us around 5th and 6th.
Fred said he was pitched a midfield vision of he, Pogba and Matic by no one other than Jose himself. Jose convinced him to come. What's with these manager fans trying to disown their favourite manager's transfer decisions. Like there isn't a mountain of evidence to support it. "The quotes don't matter, he had no choice and only said them at gunpoint"
That is fair. Jose said that his job was to start winning again and on that score he was pretty successful.
My point is that achievement demonstrated what he was capable of.
In terms of regression, it was always going to be difficult to repeat that outcome and he was very well aware of the squad limitations as were the fans. And that is where it went wrong.
Partly because he was not backed despite having his contract extension. And partly because of a range of associated issues most of which still exist.
I just don't think that we would be in such a dire position were he still here. That is just my opinion.
Mourinho deserved to go but our big money signing Maguire was his target last summer so, maybe?
But it didn't demonstrate what he was capable of, the eye test and stats tell you that we weren't the second best team. We were defensively and offensively average, that achievements demonstrate what De Gea could do at his very best but that's about it. From a collective standpoint which is the domain of the manager, and the club, we were average. I didn't want Mourinho to be sacked because we weren't the best team in May 2018, I thought that despite the negative signs there was something to do with that team within his plan. The reason Mourinho deserved to be sacked and the reason why it is shocking that anyone supports him is that instead of working on the fundamentals, on the training pitch and instead of trying to find solutions through coaching, he just asked for more money and then gave up, I don't want that type of manager at United because they are guaranteed to fail at top level. And to be clear today's Mourinho isn't the Mourinho that I admired 10 years ago, that manager was brilliant, he improved players and embraced adversity. The current Mourinho is turning into Capello.
At the end of the day today's Mourinho will never win me over because the first thing that I rate in a manager is his ability to develop and improve the players that he has.
May we stop with this "manager fans" nonsense because we are saying positive things about a manager universally hated for absolutely no reason, even though by all facts and data whatever anyone want to convince themselves otherwise his 2 full years were far better than the shite show before and after him? No one said he was without faults but at the same time he was definitely not as bad as his "haters" - if you like labeling posters - making him out to be, or the fan fiction some are going here by saying he's responsible for the current mess.
Mourinho dropped Fred immediately after the first 2 games for Fellaini and was barely playing him since then, while you can look at players like Zlatan, Pogba(before their argument), Matic, Lukaku etc whom he kept playing whatever their form was even when they were criticized by everyone and even defended them in public too. It's easy to know which ones were his signing and which weren't. Mourinho usually has very big patience for his favorite players and his signings while he has next to none for his non favorite ones. No one said all the signings were forced on him, but you need to learn not all the signings are scouted by the manager as well. There are signings whom the scouts suggest on the club. Fred most likely one of these. Nothing in their time together here suggest he was chosen by Mourinho. They can say all they want in the media but what was happening on the pitch was obvious.
Ok my friend . We should probably agree to disagree.
However, as you rightly said, we were an average team. And yet, the indisputable fact is that Jose was able to manage to get an average team to finish 2nd....
That is entirely my point.
Our performances were average, it wasn't simply the team that was average. To put it simply, United didn't create a lot of chances, conceded a lot of chances but didn't concede a lot of goals because the goalkeeper was making saves. Our performances were average at the exception of the goalkeeper, you could eventually credit Mourinho for that but if you do you also have to blame him for the rest of team being average at defending and attacking.
The weird thing here is that you seemingly don't care about what actually happened and cling onto "but we were 2nd" without looking at what was behind the curtain. It's even weirder when you consider the fact that people have been proven right, De Gea regressed toward the mean and we started conceding goals the way we should have. If the manager's work was behind the resullts then logically his presence should have at least see us stagnate overall but we all know that it was a freak season as this link will show you.
Based on expected goals, points and the other underlying statistics, our final position should have been 6/7. But not everyone accepts that performance indicators suchs as expected goals and chances created will have any influence in the long run...
Indeed. In terms of xG prevented De Gea went from a massive overperformance of +11.70 to an underperformance of -3.00 by the time was Mourinho was sacked in 18/19. Statistically speaking you'd have a hard time finding a single greater reason for the difference between our 17/18 and 18/19 seasons under Mourinho than De Gea no longer being able to save us due to his collapse in form.
And those things were visible, it's not as if our performances didn't match them. People kept wondering why we were always under pressure and why we were easily rattled. Now the positive was that our attackers were clinical, they would score on the rare opportunities given to them which showed their quality as finishers the issue being that none of them are reliable creators and we are still lacking in that department. Also our defensive problems were mainly due to our midfield who was and still is unable to provide any sort of defensive cover or control a game.
No.
If we had backed him and avoided the toxicity that ruined his final season? For sure, yes.
He knows how to build title winning squads. He's done it plenty of times. Sadly that didn't happen and the politics behind the scenes ruined it for everyone.
Now we get to enjoy the fruits of Ed Woodward's labors. More mediocrity.
He knows how to build title winning squads. He's done it plenty of times. Sadly that didn't happen and the politics behind the scenes ruined it for everyone.
Now we get to enjoy the fruits of Ed Woodward's labors. More mediocrity.