If Mourinho's authority and ideology were given more backing, would we be challenging?

sammsky1

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I answered it. We're better off in the long term than he is without us. The man is unemployed while we get another roll of the dice even after Ole.

Also look at you fiercely fighting for his honour at the expense of the club. What's wrong with some of you?
You talk loose and make big claims. No you didn't come close to answering.

Beyond your opinionated hyperbole, where is your evidence on this?

As for your last point, its my belief that backing Mourinho to the hilt was in the best interests of my team. You've decided to fight for Woodward/Glazer judgement and honour instead. That's your call.
 
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steffyr2

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Sure. I'll also add context.

Place / Pts / Pts behind 1st / CL exit / Manager
7th / 64 / -22 / QF / Moyes
4th / 70 / -17 / -- / LVG
5th / 66 / -16 / Group / LVG
6th / 69 / -17 / -- / Jose
2nd / 81 / -19 / R16 / Jose
6th / 66 -- / -19 / -- / Jose + Ole
12th so far/ 9 points from 8 games => ~43 points/??/not in CL/Ole

As you can see Jose never challenged for the title even though he was second and he was dumped out in the round of 16 by mighty Sevilla.

Always happy to add context. Cheers.
Yep, looks like context! Back into the CL after year #1 of Jose, 81 points and 2nd place after year #2, then the fans preferred to support Ed Woodward in year 3 so we're back down to 66 points and out of the Champions League...This year? who knows what will happen,we're in 12th place and on track for 43 points.
 

broccoli

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Said it before but Jose didn't pick most transfers here such ad Fred or Sanchez. He'd talk like they were his signings though but it was only to be politically correct.

Matic, Lindelof, Dalot were most certainly his picks though and they haven't been great but who has?
 

roonster09

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We would have been consistently 2nd or 3rd. I'd be OK with that. You prefer where we are now???????
Or we would have consistently in 6th place, position Jose's team spent most time in. I prefer neither. I would sack Ole and look for better options. We don't have just Ole or Jose option.
 

Sky1981

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Mourinho has never lasted more than 3 seasons & 1 month at a club. Period.
That includes his best successes, his best results, his best teams it has always been a short tenure, would that of been different if he had been backed to the hilt? Would he still have been here in 10 years? Don't be fecking naive.


Mourinho is a short term manager and lets just remember the Sevilla debacle and the comments that came with that debacle happened before that fecking summer where he 'wasn't backed'
Now of course, Woodward should of either backed or sacked him but the problems started before that summer and even with a 300mill expenditure, there would of been fractures in the squad because that's how Mourinho is.
He's probably the best short term manager around but one of the worst to keep when things begin to sour.
A short term success is better than a long term decline.

Win in 3 years then feck off is still better than staying for 6 years and winning nothing

Your statement will only merit if ole actually wins something in year 3 or 4th and beyond.
 

Sky1981

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All managers will need 400-500m to realistically even consider a title challenge with the liverpool/ city duo on their form of their life.

Stop thinking that Mourinho will need 300m but ole will only need 100 to challenge.

If you dont back Mourinho, he'll probably wont challengen the title and ended up top 4 or 6th at worst. With ole we back him 150m and he still ended up 12th
 

Sky1981

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Van Gaal should have been sacked. But he took us from 7th into the CL places, had better success with signings (Herrera, Shaw, Blind, Romero, Martial are better than most of Mourinho’s outlay - while we recouped the Schniderlin and Di Maria money). Lowered our wage bill and won the FA Cup. He left us in a good place to build upon.
Van gaal is retiring in 1 year. If only he's 10 years younger with a young hunger he could have fought the fight. He's on semi retirement mode. And the way our board force feed him giggs as ass man and told him to groom him for us is a total clusterfeck
 

In Rainbows

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If ole spents 300m next season, brought us europa and fa cup and 2nd place finish we'd name our son ole
Not all of us. Not all of us are obsessed with a manager like Mourinho fans are or like how some top reds are.
 

roonster09

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Not all of us. Not all of us are obsessed with a manager like Mourinho fans are or like how some top reds are.
Most be completely new concept for few Jose fans that ManUtd > any manager or player.
 

In Rainbows

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Resulting to top reds insult...

Ironically jose fanboys has been dished around by top reds, and now we're being accuse of being top red. Would the real top red please stand up
There is not much difference between a top red or a Mourinho fan boy in my eyes. You both ignored evidence that the manager was failing. The two only alligned when Mourinho was the manager of United. Now that Mourinho is no longer manager, you have no blind allegiance to a manger where as top reds still do.

I follow evidence, not blind allegiance to a manager. This is why I wanted Mourinho and Ole out.
 

Skills

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Our performances were average, it wasn't simply the team that was average. To put it simply, United didn't create a lot of chances, conceded a lot of chances but didn't concede a lot of goals because the goalkeeper was making saves. Our performances were average at the exception of the goalkeeper, you could eventually credit Mourinho for that but if you do you also have to blame him for the rest of team being average at defending and attacking.

The weird thing here is that you seemingly don't care about what actually happened and cling onto "but we were 2nd" without looking at what was behind the curtain. It's even weirder when you consider the fact that people have been proven right, De Gea regressed toward the mean and we started conceding goals the way we should have. If the manager's work was behind the resullts then logically his presence should have at least see us stagnate overall but we all know that it was a freak season as this link will show you.
It's funny how you can put up a stack of evidence to show that the sole reason for us finishing second that season was our goalkeeper (you know the one individual position on the pitch), yet fans of this club will still manage to come out with shit like 'hurgh, our manager got us 2nd! Players are shit"
 

roonster09

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I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand that Jose was here for 2.5 years, didn't challenge for league anytime. He got everything he wanted for first 2 seasons and we didn't challenge for the league. He then acted like a cnut because he didn't get couple of players, something you never want from the man leading the club. He lost the dressing room and had to go.

We then messed up the replacement, doesn't mean Jose was right choice. it just mean we fecked up many manager appointments sine SAF retired.
 

VP

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Can't believe people are still defending this nasty little coward.

There's a reason why he's got sacked from his last three jobs.
 

hn4manunited

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FACT: Mourinho took this squad, which now everyone is saying are total crap and no one could succeed with into second place.

Mourinho said at the time it was his greatest achievement. It is looking like it was a miracle now. Many now saying didn’t like the football but at the same time now saying the squad are crap. Well Mourinho took a crap squad to second place with a points tally that would have won the prem league in some previous seasons yet the football wasn’t good enough. Jeez what do you expect with this crap squad?!?

Mourinho should have been backed end of. He wasn’t and his behaviour once he realised meant that he deserved to be sacked but it was a situation that needn’t and shouldn’t have happened.

If he had been backed things would have been very different and the main debate on here may well have been is it good enough for a club such as us to win the league without winning in style and should we sack Mourinho to change the brand of football!
couldn’t have said it better. Agreed.
 

roonster09

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It's funny how you can put up a stack of evidence to show that the sole reason for us finishing second that season was our goalkeeper (you know the one individual position on the pitch), yet fans of this club will still manage to come out with shit like 'hurgh, our manager got us 2nd! Players are shit"
It would have been valid excuse if he didn't spend money to sign even more average players.

Woodward and the managers he appointed have destroyed this club.
 

hn4manunited

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Having seen the football we've played under him, I seriously doubt the addition of three-four players would have turned us into a team than can challenge a 100-points-a-season City and then also Liverpool.
problem is, you’re seeing something that is half built due to Ed’s incompetence to fully back our manager. If you look at Jose’s teams of past that was built with proper backing, they have all been great!
 

roonster09

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Can't believe people are still defending this nasty little coward.

There's a reason why he's got sacked from his last three jobs.
Wouldn't be surprised if he just ran away watching City's team and how much Klopp improved Liverpool. It was too big a challenge for him.
 

hn4manunited

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We'll get another top manager. Jose won't get another top job.
i have a sneaky suspicion that Jose’s gonna get another top job before we would get another top manager. Even if we get a potential top manager, there is a good chance Ed, our current squad of Ed-backed players, and some of our idiotic fans will screw the manager up.
 

hn4manunited

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Can't believe people are still defending this nasty little coward.

There's a reason why he's got sacked from his last three jobs.
nasty maybe but towards the cowards in the dressing room and the upper management at this club. Him a coward, never.
 

hn4manunited

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It's funny how you can put up a stack of evidence to show that the sole reason for us finishing second that season was our goalkeeper (you know the one individual position on the pitch), yet fans of this club will still manage to come out with shit like 'hurgh, our manager got us 2nd! Players are shit"
You really think that the rest of the team didn’t have to do anything for us to come in 2nd in an entire season? Even if that is the case, then there must be some credit that goes to Jose for making De Gea play at the form he was at, right? I mean, look at De Gea now. Why can’t he save us? Is it because he didn’t have a great manager like Jose to keep him playing out of his skin?
 

hn4manunited

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I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand that Jose was here for 2.5 years, didn't challenge for league anytime. He got everything he wanted for first 2 seasons and we didn't challenge for the league. He then acted like a cnut because he didn't get couple of players, something you never want from the man leading the club. He lost the dressing room and had to go.

We then messed up the replacement, doesn't mean Jose was right choice. it just mean we fecked up many manager appointments sine SAF retired.
Not until you can fill in between your sentences with the correct bits of information, can your eyes be open to the truth! I can try to fill in those information between or in within your sentences but many others and I have already posted plenty of those information for you to simply go back to the stubborn hatred towards Jose.
 

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Answer to the OP
DE Gea
Young Lindelof Maguire???

Matic Fred McToMinay

Willian Lukaku. Perisič

Do you see the above team challenging for anything?
That team will never challenge for anything mainly because it only has 10 players. And if you remove Fred (i am sure that he is not a Jose player and never was his signing) and Young from that team and replace them with quality players, find a cover for Matic and make a team with 11 players instead of 10, then that that team will be a top four team for sure and might challenge for title as well ("might" only because of how good Pool and City teams are). I am not saying that this is a perfect team, actually far from it when you compare them with City and Pool teams. But i can see real fighters and characters in that team who will follow their managers orders and also will play and fight as a team. Yes, we might have to replace Willian and Perisic in 3 years, but that team with Jose in charge would have surely taken us upwards, not like what is happening now.
 

VP

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nasty maybe but towards the cowards in the dressing room and the upper management at this club. Him a coward, never.
Did you miss the Sevilla game?

His entire footballing philosophy is based on sitting back and waiting for the opponents to make mistakes - that's cowardly.
 

Foxbatt

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Jose's teams always play the same way. I think his biggest mistake was buying Matic and Pogba. Yes Pogba played a most important role in winning the EL and league cup and getting us to the second. But he never was a Jose kind of player. He never was a SAF kind of player either.
I agree with people who say that Woodward has too much say in the type of players coming to United.
 

roonster09

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Not until you can fill in between your sentences with the correct bits of information, can your eyes be open to the truth! I can try to fill in those information between or in within your sentences but many others and I have already posted plenty of those information for you to simply go back to the stubborn hatred towards Jose.
When you stop your blind worship, you can actually see things from wider perspective. It's too late for you and other guys, keep worshiping the toxic cnut.
 

kouroux

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That team will never challenge for anything mainly because it only has 10 players. And if you remove Fred (i am sure that he is not a Jose player and never was his signing) and Young from that team and replace them with quality players, find a cover for Matic and make a team with 11 players instead of 10, then that that team will be a top four team for sure and might challenge for title as well ("might" only because of how good Pool and City teams are). I am not saying that this is a perfect team, actually far from it when you compare them with City and Pool teams. But i can see real fighters and characters in that team who will follow their managers orders and also will play and fight as a team. Yes, we might have to replace Willian and Perisic in 3 years, but that team with Jose in charge would have surely taken us upwards, not like what is happening now.
Why would you replace Young ? He was very valued by Jose after all.
 

roonster09

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That team will never challenge for anything mainly because it only has 10 players. And if you remove Fred (i am sure that he is not a Jose player and never was his signing) and Young from that team and replace them with quality players, find a cover for Matic and make a team with 11 players instead of 10, then that that team will be a top four team for sure and might challenge for title as well ("might" only because of how good Pool and City teams are). I am not saying that this is a perfect team, actually far from it when you compare them with City and Pool teams. But i can see real fighters and characters in that team who will follow their managers orders and also will play and fight as a team. Yes, we might have to replace Willian and Perisic in 3 years, but that team with Jose in charge would have surely taken us upwards, not like what is happening now.
Real fighters in alternate universe. People somehow think Perisic is some perfect player when he was a cnut in dressing room at Inter and Inter fans complained about him playing poor to average in last 2 seasons. And Willian was posting nonsense about his manager when Conte was still in charge.

That team won't finish top 4. Non contributing wingers and striker who scored more than 20 league goals once in his career. Fred, Matic, McT midfield that barely creates any chance and none of them have passing range to start quick attacks. Not to forget everyone of them takes so many touches to control the ball.
 

Hisha

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Real fighters in alternate universe. People somehow think Perisic is some perfect player when he was a cnut in dressing room at Inter and Inter fans complained about him playing poor to average in last 2 seasons. And Willian was posting nonsense about his manager when Conte was still in charge.

That team won't finish top 4. Non contributing wingers and striker who scored more than 20 league goals once in his career. Fred, Matic, McT midfield that barely creates any chance and none of them have passing range to start quick attacks. Not to forget everyone of them takes so many touches to control the ball.
Please read my post again
 

roonster09

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Please read my post again
I read, not sure what I missed. You said the team has bunch of fighters but all I see is bunch of cnuts who shits on their club and managers when things don't go their way. I see that team and don't think we will be anywhere near 4th with that team, forget 'might' challenge for title. If we are relegated then it might challenge for title.
 

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Why would you replace Young ? He was very valued by Jose after all.
Did you ever thought about managers trying to push their players trying to get the maximum from them? For some reason Jose might had to continue with Young and then surely he must try to improve him. Young is a senior player and also mentally strong, so instead of trying to get a reaction from him, Jose tried to motivate him by saying inspiring him. And i believe that if Jose had a real chance (both in terms of his targets being available and approval from club) to replace Young, he surely would have.
 

el3mel

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The irony is the shifting of opinions form time to time. Back in the day the squad was great and Mourinho was holding them back. We should be challenging for the league with these players and we should be playing better football etc. Now the squad is crap thanks to Mourinho wasting loads of money and fecking up the squad and he's one of the reasons for our current mess.

People need to make their mind. Either the squad was crap but overachieving or it was good enough to challenge but needed a new manager to "free" them?
 

kouroux

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Did you ever thought about managers trying to push their players trying to get the maximum from them? For some reason Jose might had to continue with Young and then surely he must try to improve him. Young is a senior player and also mentally strong, so instead of trying to get a reaction from him, Jose tried to motivate him by saying inspiring him. And i believe that if Jose had a real chance (both in terms of his targets being available and approval from club) to replace Young, he surely would have.
I'm a simple man, I don't read minds like you may do. I've seen Jose play Young a lot, give him the armband, big him up whenever he could. Based on that, I think he would be one of the last players he'd ever have replaced.