Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[SteveW]

His best ever run is with that mess. The more the tampers the mess the messier it gets
[/QUOTE]

They ran out of steam though because they were incapable of sustaining it.

What's your opinion on Jose?

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

Very fair questions, obviously. I don't have any answers. I'm certainly not "Ole in" in the sense that I'm convinced he's capable of winning big prizes (which has to be the ultimate goal).

We might get, if not definite answers, then at least some decent indications before too long. If United make an astute move or two in the market in January, that would be an indication that the - by and by - famous long-term plan is a reality, and that it is being adhered to. Meanwhile, Ole can't afford many Newcastle style performances with a full strength (or close to it) team. There are legitimate extenuating circumstances one can point to - thus far - but there are clearly limits. Rebuilding whilst being inconsistent and not producing top results is one thing - and understandable in my book - but failing to put your mark on the team (a recognizable style, preferably one that's easier on the eye than what we've become accustomed to over the years) won't do for too long before serious questions must be asked.

C
I completely agree with your last point.Its not so much the results(we can live with inconsistent results for a while),but it’s the erratic performances that have completely spooked a lot of folks.Yes,even Klopp took a while to win matches consistently but you could clearly see a distinct style of play right from his first game.Guardiola,Pochettino,Rodgers etc all got their teams playing a certain brand of football right from the beginning...

I can’t see any clear,distinct style of play.I can just see a good counterattacking team,that has the pace and the quality to punish teams on the break.But I don’t see a clear style of play against teams that drop deep and play with a tight defensive block....I think we need to see far more from Ole before we can be convinced about his ability to manage at this level...

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

I've seen United play like the worse team in the league the last couple of months....

I agree,some performances have been truly shocking...But in some games we”ve played good football....We need to wait until the end of the season to see if the good performances can consistently start to outweigh the bad ones...

 

[ash_86]

C
I completely agree with your last point.Its not so much the results(we can live with inconsistent results for a while),but it’s the erratic performances that have completely spooked a lot of folks.Yes,even Klopp took a while to win matches consistently but you could clearly see a distinct style of play right from his first game.Guardiola,Pochettino,Rodgers etc all got their teams playing a certain brand of football right from the beginning...

I can’t see any clear,distinct style of play.I can just see a good counterattacking team,that has the pace and the quality to punish teams on the break.But I don’t see a clear style of play against teams that drop deep and play with a tight defensive block....I think we need to see far more from Ole before we can be convinced about his ability to manage at this level...

Regarding breaking down low block teams : for this to happen we need our front three to be on same page. For the first time in a while we can see glimpse of that happening. As they play together more and more they will learn each other's movements. Once that happens the you will start seeing a lot of one touch and lay offs happen. This will help us to break down teams that sit back.

 

[devilish]

Correct. But it seems to me that it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that this change has something to do with Ole - rather than having something to do with...who? Ed Woodward? He has finally realized that wasting money isn't a good idea? Well, he might - it would be about feckin' time.

But has he started getting more closely involved, personally, with precisely what sort of player profile we target? And is he pretty good at it (as evidenced by the performances of AWB, Maguire and James thus far)? I doubt many would believe that.

Again, having nobody else to credit for the relative (let's not get overly excited, there's no reason for that after all) success of the recent signings, it seems fair enough to credit the manager (who isn't working with a DOF or anyone else fitting that description) for said signings. I repeat: the sample size is clearly too small to declare him brilliant in this regard, but for the time being...he gets a pass.

Woodward might not know alot about football but he certainly knows alot about money. Unlike what many think he's still accountable to the Glazers who might have no idea of how football work but they can certainly understand the league table. Now our last 6 years saw Woodward intruding into matters that are not in his control, were we basically bought a mix of big names and cheap foreign knock offs. That had decimated our squad. That meant pressure over the scouting team which is a bloated mess of 58 scouts a big chunk of whom are relics from previous administrations with no one to protect them anymore. Under such circumstances I won't be surprised if the latter responded by going for very safe bets. They simply can't afford another mess up.

 

[devilish]

I would agree more or less with this. I’m sure you’d agree too that Ole is doing his best to this effect, so I don’t think we would disagree here.

I am not certain about that really. The team isn't playing entertaining football and look clueless tactically wise. Mckenna and Carrick who proven to be a massive downgrade over Faria still run the place. Most of the coaching/analyst we brought came from clubs we've never heard from (some from Australia). That doesn't necessarily translate into them being bad however they hardly inspire me of confidence either. Ah and our injury rate is beyond ridiculous.

a- No manager can force his employers’ hands to do something which they have no intention of doing. They would have to realise themselves (maybe after many failures) that restructuring is necessary for the long term success of our club. If they are absolutely not interested in restructuring, maybe the agreement before any new manager is signed is that they will have to work with the current setup. If that’s a given, I’m not sure you can expect the manager to push for any change on that front. The executives need to understand that necessity for the long term interest of the club more than a manager who would be here for three to five years at most.

b- Hiring and firing of coaching staff in our current setup quite complicated. Like you said the structure isn’t right so you can’t expect a manager to be some sort of saviour who changes everything from top to bottom. Some of your expectations seem to be those of the executives or DOF in the right structure, not the manager.

c- The manager can signal the list of players he doesn’t want anymore but it’s not up to him to find buyers or negotiate deals for them. Again, this isn’t the prerogative of the manager. Other clubs took the list of expendable players and only went for the better ones who could improve them. Hard to blame Ole for that.

d- The best tactics need the right players to be applied properly. If the players aren’t good enough it won’t work as expected.

e- We’re not there yet but I think we’re on the way there with Ole.

f- We can only judge this at the end of the season, unless we drop into relegation zone.

We just need to be more patient with Ole.

A- That is technically true however there's a small time window (at the beginning of the manager's career at the club) when he's got far more power then ever. He could certainly push the club on that direction. Ole also has the advantage of being a club legend with most fans at his side as well. If he states that he really need a top quality DOF then I am sure that most fans will rally around him

b- Well it isn't as complicated as you think. Most managers move from one club to another and bring their people with them. It took Moyes weeks to dismantle Sir Alex's team and that was actually competent

c- True but God also gave the manager a mouth to speak with. If he's not happy with his midfield or forward line being strengthened that he should say so. Smiling all the time makes him look a bit like a R......

d- Tactics should always be built around the players you've got not viceversa. Better managers were able to get more out of this players then Ole. There again we're talking about the likes of Mou and LVG not some Cardiff reject

e- That's true

f- I very much doubt he'll make it to top 4

 

[SteveW]

I am not certain about that really. The team isn't playing entertaining football and look clueless tactically wise. Mckenna and Carrick who proven to be a massive downgrade over Faria still run the place. Most of the coaching/analyst we brought came from clubs we've never heard from (some from Australia). That doesn't necessarily translate into them being bad however they hardly inspire me of confidence either. Ah and our injury rate is beyond ridiculous.

Some specifics on this point perhaps? (Other than "team not play good")

 

[devilish]

Some specifics on this point perhaps? (Other than "team not play good")

People like Martyn Pert whose glittering CV include Vancouver Whitecaps and the Bahrain. Quinton Fortune who adds to our pool of coaches with zero experience about coaching prior working with us like Michael Carrick and Nicky Butt. Michael Clegg whose only experience in coaching came from Sunderland, we also picked Binnigsley from there. Meanwhile Mark Dempsey whose career mirrors that of Ole (Cardiff during Ole's disastrous time there + a bunch of jobs in the Norwegian league). I made a more detailed list a few months back. I'll try to search for it.

You'll expect an inexperienced and tactically naive manager who had already proved out of depth at the EPL before to surround himself with way more experience that that.

 

[SteveW]

So no actual examples of bad tactics. Just more CV attacks.

Can't say I'm surprised.

 

[Bobcat]

His best ever run is with that mess. The more the tampers the mess the messier it gets

His great run in the start was mostly down to the players wanting to prove a point it seems. Then it all came crashing down in March for two reasons
1) Fitness was shite, hence why we picked up so many muscular injuries and why we looked gassed by half time every match after Liverpool on OT
2) The mentality in the squad was severely lacking. Players who played their hearts out from December-March when they wanted to one-up Jose now seemed to now give a toss about how it went, they had already proved their point. Thats unacceptable

The thing is though, especially the mentality bit has been a problem ever since Fergie retired. With Moyes it was clear by Christmas that the squad had completely lost faith, same with LvG and his draconian methods although it did take a bit longer. It looked better under Jose the first two years for obvious reasons, but then it took a complete nosedive after his meltdown in summer 2018. Fitness took a big hit though under Jose since he does not really focus on it and his style is one who conserves a lot of energy.

 

[Marcelinho87]

I would still keep... For now.

I also feel he is now on even thinner ice now that Poch is free. I reckon the only reason we never went for Poch is how much he would have cost.

If our form doesn't improve and I mean by a large amount then I can see Poch in place for January.

 

[Judas]

Sorry not laughing directly at you but it's a bit funny how this bar keeps getting set lower each week. It's Sheffield. You don't have to go this far if you like Ole. He can beat Sheffield

I like Ole, but I don't believe he should be managing us at all.

How anyone who has watched both teams this season thinks we should win is hilarious, they're much better than us, and that's on Ole and the team.

 

[Judas]

How many fans wanted Jose gone at the end of May 18? Was nowhere near the majority. Most saw us progressing well and wanted a big summer to close the gap.

That's not true, apart from his worshippers on here, most had seen enough and knew the collapse was coming.

 

[el3mel]

They ran out of steam though because they were incapable of sustaining it.

What's your opinion on Jose?

So the problem was fitness, not that the squad was shite or a mess, as you previously said.

I find it amusing how you keep contradicting your points to keep Ole blameless. Go on.

 

[Josep Dowling]

It's not a simple as snapping your fingers and the correct midfield option appears. I don't remember any really obvious targets that we passed up. Quality CMs are hard to get at present. They tried Longstaff and Rabiot and didn't get them. Ole said they are looking at midfielders so it's clearly a priority.

The blame lies at the previous managers for leaving us so devoid of quality in that position.

How is it the previous manager? Fellaini sold in January. The club would have been aware for a long time that Herrera wasn’t going to sign a new contract. Both these events happened way after Jose was sacked. Nothing to do with Mourinho at all.

 

[Keefy18]

His great run in the start was mostly down to the players wanting to prove a point it seems. Then it all came crashing down in March for two reasons
1) Fitness was shite, hence why we picked up so many muscular injuries and why we looked gassed by half time every match after Liverpool on OT
2) The mentality in the squad was severely lacking. Players who played their hearts out from December-March when they wanted to one-up Jose now seemed to now give a toss about how it went, they had already proved their point. Thats unacceptable

The thing is though, especially the mentality bit has been a problem ever since Fergie retired. With Moyes it was clear by Christmas that the squad had completely lost faith, same with LvG and his draconian methods although it did take a bit longer. It looked better under Jose the first two years for obvious reasons, but then it took a complete nosedive after his meltdown in summer 2018. Fitness took a big hit though under Jose since he does not really focus on it and his style is one who conserves a lot of energy.

Agree completely with this.

He's had two woeful dips in form around March and more recently around Sept / Oct and both times it was due to a lot of big name players being injured.

But folks conveniently ignore this and instead decide to simplify things and just blame the manager.

Your absolutely right as well that the mentality has been a mainstay in the post Fergie years, I've lost count how many times I've read that Ole's team looks no different to say LVG or some of Jose's... well color me shocked, its cause of the weak mentality in many players.

These things take time to turn around but our toxic "supporters" won't allow any time for him to turn it around.

 

[Judas]

Ole's team has often looked worse than Jose and LVG's, more often than not really.

You can't blame people not wanting to give time to someone woefully under qualified who has shown very little to support the claim he should be our manager.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Zinedine Zidane and Pep Guardiola. Do you think any of them had any type of pedigree to go anywhere near their respective first time managerial teams?

I love how absolutely negative you are being. It's like watching the Impeachment testimony and the GOP making things up to fit their agenda. What impresses me is that you manage to be negative about good results. Hell, even beating Chelsea at Stamford Bridge is suddenly a "whoopdedoo". Unless you forget, both teams started with reduced strength and had their best teams on in the end. We beat them soundly, again. Liverpool 1-1 at Old Trafford, should have won.

We had 9 first team players on the injury list at one point. Martial and Pogba have been out big parts of the season, as has Luke Shaw. Axel Tuanzebe is injured, along with Angel Gomes. Rashford and Greenwood have missed games, McTominay is injured now. I know that you're about to say something amazing along the lines of "Injuries doesn't matter". And I'll say "So we can win the league with the reserve team?" And you go on about how Norwich are terrible, and I mention that Norwich beat Manchester City, badly. You might moan about Brighton being terrible, and Ill prod you and show you the statsheet for the 3-0 win against Tottenham. AND SO ON. You know, when you pretend that only a handful of games in the Premier League is tricky, maybe you should look at reality a bit. Teams drop points left and right to anyone and everywhere.

Do you have ANY idea how impossible frustrating it is at times to see this kind of argumentation being thrown around without any justification behind it besides teams being "no name teams"? oh yeah we beat Leicester as well, they're pretty good this year, best defense in the premier league. KINDA LIKE OURS (we're 4th in GA, not too bad. That's Goals Against). We still haven't allowed goals in the Europa League. We remain the only team to do so. I'm sorry if that's not good enough for you.

So far we've played Liverpool, Chelsea twice, Arsenal. Two wins Two draw. Of course none of those games matter because it's not the REAL test. The REAL test comes next game, always the next game.

Our next game is Sheffield United. They have a GREAT defensive side and made short work of Tottenham last round. If we walk away with a win, I look forward to hearing about how its just Sheffield United and no one should be impressed. Isn't it just a awful existence when you can only bring yourself to feel good about good performances against 5 teams in a league of 20?

We clearly look from different perspectives.

Why are you comparing him to ZZ and Pep? Some of you live in a pipe dream that Ole will replicate the class of 92 and he will remain manager for the next 20 years. ZZ success was down to Ronaldo anyway.

The injury crisis was caused by not bringing in a central midfielder and striker. He chose to get rid of Lukaku and no one come in. Then to loan out Sanchez after we can’t sign anyone was pure stupidity. Maybe he doesn’t want to be here but when he’s paid £500k frankly the club should have made him stay until at least January.

Fellaini and Herrera were known to be going since before the summer. Surely then that becomes the priority position to sign a player? Why spend £80m on a CB then loan out your best CB to Italy? The money issues is down to the club but Solskjaer chose what positions to prioritise and it seems spend our entire budget on the defence.

As for decent results. An away win at Stamford Bridge is a good result, less so in the league cup which for many top 4 clubs just isn’t a priority. Whoever wins that trophy usually has the best second team in the league, hence City have such a good record recently.

I get Sheffield United are playing well and are defensively solid. The fact that excuses are being made to not beat them proves what we have become. Their entire squad are a bunch of nothing journeyman playing for a manager who knows what he’s doing.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

Regarding breaking down low block teams : for this to happen we need our front three to be on same page. For the first time in a while we can see glimpse of that happening. As they play together more and more they will learn each other's movements. Once that happens the you will start seeing a lot of one touch and lay offs happen. This will help us to break down teams that sit back.

Yeah,the chemistry between the front 3 is clearly getting better,hopefully we can keep all 3 fit for the rest of the season.But we need far more quality,guile,control and creativity from our midfield if we want to consistently break strong,defensive teams.The league is extremely competitive right now,even clubs at the bottom know how to build a strong,defensive unit.

Without improvement/reinforcements in midfield,and without relentless,consistent attacking intent from our full backs,we will continue to struggle against the defensive teams.We need good chemistry between the front 3,way more quality from the middle and attacking intent from our full backs to unlock defences consistently...

 

[Darlington Padgett]

I agree,some performances have been truly shocking...But in some games we”ve played good football....We need to wait until the end of the season to see if the good performances can consistently start to outweigh the bad ones...

I actually believe that too, but no longer than that. He shouldn't be given more time than this season if we're still playing and getting the same results we are getting right now.

 

[SirAF]

I would still keep... For now.

I also feel he is now on even thinner ice now that Poch is free. I reckon the only reason we never went for Poch is how much he would have cost.

If our form doesn't improve and I mean by a large amount then I can see Poch in place for January.

The best thing for Pochettino would probably be to have a break until the end of the season. United, though, would do very well to agree a preliminary contract ASAP so he doesn’t slip away.

 

[Marcelinho87]

The best thing for Pochettino would probably be to have a break until the end of the season. United, though, would do very well to agree a preliminary contract ASAP so he doesn’t slip away.

I agree for Poch that would be best but for us? If we are intent on making him manager then it needs to be before the end so that he can also come to the conclusion that Young and Jones need extensions.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

The best thing for Pochettino would probably be to have a break until the end of the season. United, though, would do very well to agree a preliminary contract ASAP so he doesn’t slip away.

If Poch has a break until the end of the season. The Munich job may not be available unless they take in a care-taker until the end of the season. By the the time that happens we may still keep Ole and Munich may have installed a new manager and Poch might rue the chance of not taking over from Munich when it is available.

 

[beer&grill]

manager come in to take his place and show h

We clearly look from different perspectives.

Why are you comparing him to ZZ and Pep? Some of you live in a pipe dream that Ole will replicate the class of 92 and he will remain manager for the next 20 years. ZZ success was down to Ronaldo anyway.

The injury crisis was caused by not bringing in a central midfielder and striker. He chose to get rid of Lukaku and no one come in. Then to loan out Sanchez after we can’t sign anyone was pure stupidity. Maybe he doesn’t want to be here but when he’s paid £500k frankly the club should have made him stay until at least January.

Fellaini and Herrera were known to be going since before the summer. Surely then that becomes the priority position to sign a player? Why spend £80m on a CB then loan out your best CB to Italy? The money issues is down to the club but Solskjaer chose what positions to prioritise and it seems spend our entire budget on the defence.

As for decent results. An away win at Stamford Bridge is a good result, less so in the league cup which for many top 4 clubs just isn’t a priority. Whoever wins that trophy usually has the best second team in the league, hence City have such a good record recently.

I get Sheffield United are playing well and are defensively solid. The fact that excuses are being made to not beat them proves what we have become. Their entire squad are a bunch of nothing journeyman playing for a manager who knows what he’s doing.

Because some people forget that OGS has 10 years of experience as a manager, unlike Pep or Zidane who were rookies and who clicked immediately anyway. You will see people comparing OGS to Lampard just to prove a point, calling them both rookies. Even though it doesn't really make sense because Lampard does a better job anyway. Ten years as a manager is enough for those who are realistic to know he won't suddenly come good. If Ole was a true novice,as Lampard is, and was showing glimpses of brilliance I would be all for giving him time. Right now, as a seasoned, and in my opinion, bad manager, he doesn't deserve more time.

 

[Falcow]

I'm not convinced Poch is the answer....there is a touch of the Moyes about him, FA cup semi in 2018 and last seasons Champions league final being two examples where he got it all wrong in big games. His record in crunch games is questionable. I'm glad we didn't give Levi 15m for him 6 months ago.

I think Ole is doing ok, he has gotten rid of lukaku, fellaini and sanchez and brought in three very good players instead. If next summer we bring in three similarly good signings to further balance out the squad and also shift 2 or 3 more deadwoods then I would be very pleased with that.

I would be fully expecting a league challenge the season after that by which time both city and liverpool will be doing their own rebuilding.

I acknowledge Ole is unproven when it comes to winning trophies but so is Poch. Also, I trust Ole for the squad re build at least....his transfer dealings thus far in terms of ins and outs have been excellent I feel. So let's give Ole a chance.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Would give Ole until the end of the season. Think he did well with his signing in the summer. Hopefully we make a few shrews transfers in the next window and that they transition into the team as well as the ones he made over the summer did and then judge him from there.

 

[mav_9me]

Amazing how over the international break it went from 53‰ sack to 50.7‰ today. I know we've played a little bit better and scored goals but that's been against Norwich and Brighton. Today is a much bigger test.

 

[M Bison]

Expect a major swing in the poll after this game.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Because some people forget that OGS has 10 years of experience as a manager, unlike Pep or Zidane who were rookies and who clicked immediately anyway. You will see people comparing OGS to Lampard just to prove a point, calling them both rookies. Even though it doesn't really make sense because Lampard does a better job anyway. Ten years as a manager is enough for those who are realistic to know he won't suddenly come good. If Ole was a true novice,as Lampard is, and was showing glimpses of brilliance I would be all for giving him time. Right now, as a seasoned, and in my opinion, bad manager, he doesn't deserve more time.

10 years as a manager in an amateur level league that’s why. Surely that’s pretty obvious.

 

[Mainoldo]

When will the penny drop.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Another match, another 90 minutes we see sunday league football tactics. We have no defined style at all, seriously I don’t know what does he coaches during the week.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Crazy how a few decent results against no-mark opponents shifted this poll back to 50-50. It was blatantly obvious this was just another false dawn.

 

[Amethystxx]

Poch is the only way to go, and we need to go now.

 

[AC1689]

I’m sorry but it’s all too predictable. Yes we win the odd game, but we lose far too many.

What astonishes me is that there are still people changing their vote based on one result, the most recent result. It’s so short sighted I can’t even comprehend it.

Winning one game does NOT make for a good manager. Winning constantly does. We can’t do it. We don’t do it. A bad manager wins the odd game but has their squad languishing mid to bottom table.

When will the penny drop for the ‘Keep’ mob?!

And anyone who changes keep to sack after today, if we lose, then why didn’t you either keep it as sack if you’ve voted for that before, or why have you only just decided he’s not good enough ?!

The same trend is set to continue. Lose, lose, draw, lose, win, win (omg we’re on a winning streak and Ole is the man for the job), lose, lose, win, draw etc etc.

Our win rate % is far too low and a sackable offence.

 

[Rockets Redglare]

We need to act now and get Poch in. Ole is never going to turn this round and our main target is available.

 

[MrSingh2002]

Sack the shit feck

 

[DRM]

Crazy how a few decent results against no-mark opponents shifted this poll back to 50-50. It was blatantly obvious this was just another false dawn.

Yep, Ole is clearly not up to it, it's so blatantly obvious but for some reason out idiotic CEO cannot see that. He more than anyone needs to feck off! (Ed that this ) . Ole can follow him out

 

[AC1689]

Crazy how a few decent results against no-mark opponents shifted this poll back to 50-50. It was blatantly obvious this was just another false dawn.

Mate it’s astonishing. Literally unbelievable. People really are fickle or stupid. Or both.

 

[waza7111]

Expect the sack vote to increase significantly if we lose this game. Then we'll inevitably beat the mighty Astana in midweek and it'll be back to 50/50.

 

[PoTMS]

He's doing absolutely nothing as Manchester United manager. Literally waiting for us to get so bad we are forced to sack him. The only argument to keep him was there was no one available. There is now.