Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[mu4c_20le]

Imagine if all top clubs had this mindset when it comes to replacing out of depth managers. Jesus! Give me a break.

Sacking Moyes to go to LvG went so well didn't it.

 

[M Bison]

How did it make sense at all?

We couldn't defend at all and we were running rings around their defense. We should have gone for more goals instead of trying to do something which led us 2 goals down in the first place.

By trying to protect the lead, he's shown that he's just not the right manager for the job because he just doesn't recognise the flow of the game at all. He killed off all the momentum that we had and gave it back to Sheffield for their taking.

Hes really out of his depth

For me it made sense at the time for the reasons I said above. On reflection we maybe should have stuck with the front 4 but we were so weak in midfield we could easily have been cut open and conceded anyway, or as you say, we could have scored a 4th and won the game.

It’s easy to say in hindsight it was the wrong decision, my point is I understood the logic at the time.

 

[Kemizee]

Any other big club would have got rid of this guy already. We live in a world where you are expected to deliver and unfortunately if you do not, your job is at risk. All this pressure of being a sacking club is fine by me as long as we have the right guy in charge. He has had 1 year now to do something and i feel we are in a worse position than when Jose left. I really wanted him to suceed but it is not happening. He is out of his depth.

There lies the problem. We are not a big club as far as on-pitch progress is concerned. Football wise, we have accepted and celebrated mediocrity in the last few years!

 

[L1nk]

Liverpool finished 8th in his first season and got top 4 in his first full season.

So Pep gets time to implement his style and it’s ok because he has aging defenders. Doesn’t Ole deserve the same time to implement his?

were 9th but it doesn’t always tell the full story, we’ve dropped points in winning positions against Arsenal, Liverpool, Sheffield United, Southampton, Wolves, aside from today’s game we should have won all the others.

we’re not a million miles away, in my opinion

This is the issue I have with all this. All the time we're told to have patience patience patience, and yes, I agree, patience is due when you see positive progress and a clear style of play trying to be implemented, Klopp and Guardiola have recognisable styles of play that they are given time to implement because everybody knows what they will be getting, that's why, even if they do bad in their first season, you see enough positives to carry on. This is what having patience is, having patience when it's clearly not working, there's no plan, no tactics, nothing, well, what's the point? What exactly are you being patient for, the penny isnt going to suddenly drop one game and we adopt some world class style of play for the rest of Ole's tenure then.

Can you genuinely offer one credible point in giving Ole more time, other than the fact he used to play for us? Based on what you seeing on the pitch? What style of play? We look dogshit everytime, simple as that.

 

[ash_86]

About 50% voting Ole out aren't trigger happy, they have always been Ole out since finding out that he has no coaching talent or any plan. It's the 2-3% that keeps changing votes every game.

I'm happy that a significant amount of people do realize the task is difficult with the window we had and the injuries we have faced this season. After-all it's quite easy to change the vote to sack after going two down. But good to know many still have faith.

 

[Adnan]

The problem Ole has is that he never had the credentials to manage a juggernaut like United from the evidence of his work in the last 10 years as a manager. How many of you had Ole as a candidate to replace Mourinho straight after he was sacked? Because from my recollection I can't remember one person who did. So it's understandable that many feel he isn't the man to bring this club back to being competitive again against the likes of City and Liverpool who both have superior coaches and experience of winning the biggest prizes in the game.

Personally I don't believe he is good enough and we need someone who has the vision and foresight to implement a style that will bridge the gap and make better use of our transfer funds. Blowing £130m on a RB and CB was naive when it was patently clear we required midfielders. A mobile DM signing would've improved our defence and a creative CM would've meant we retained possession better and controlled games more often which would mean defending less. The job in it's current state requires a clear vision from people with a defined football style/philosophy IMO due to the magnitude of the task. Rangnick in tandem with Nagelsmann/Rose, provides the vision and tactical nous to propel us to the heights we should be at from a structural and coaching stand point. I also believe funds would be spent in a much more economical way under such a duo, whereby we would've improved our defence with a fraction of the £130m we spent on AWB and Maguire.

 

[el3mel]

Liverpool finished 8th in his first season and got top 4 in his first full season.

So Pep gets time to implement his style and it’s ok because he has aging defenders. Doesn’t Ole deserve the same time to implement his?

were 9th but it doesn’t always tell the full story, we’ve dropped points in winning positions against Arsenal, Liverpool, Sheffield United, Southampton, Wolves, aside from today’s game we should have won all the others.

we’re not a million miles away, in my opinion

The season he got the job in October or November without any summer business before for him to do? If anything that's equivalent to last season for Ole. We are now in the first full season of Ole, in Klopp first full one he got top 4 comfortably. Will we? We now 9th and 9 points away from it.

And no, Pep implemented his style immediately from the get go. You don't get it. You don't need full year and 10 signings to apply a style. Any manager apply his style immediately. The point is how efficient the application is. Their old defenders struggled with his pressing system and were leaking goals, but they were good on the front foot and his possession style was clear to see. Is that the same for us? We were dogshite today bar great period of 10 minutes. All people are talking about is high pressing that we see few games only, and suddenly counter attacking and parking the bus in big games have become a good style worth defending for some. And anyway City finished 3rd, not around 7th.

This compariosn you made just throws all context out of the window.

Also throwing wins away multiple times indicate a manager pretty poor in game management. Not sure how is that an excuse. We are 13 matches in the league now, not in the first few games.

 

[Withnail]

You haven’t watched them clearly. They are just as good as Sheffield United just been very unlucky with VAR.

They've conceded 8 more goals. That's some run of bad luck!

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

The Martial substitution can be excused, there's no need to get all mad about it. We had just turned the game around and we had Lingard and Fred in the midfield. This was not a sign of cowardice, it's something most managers would do on a similar occasion.

On the other hand, i believe that he will take a lot of credit for turning the game around that, in my eyes, will be unwarranted. As one of my old teachers used to say: "you don't get a recommendation for just doing the obvious". The initial selection can be described in one word and that word is "horrible". You know before the game that you are thin in the midfield and what you basically decide to do is 1) Overlook the issue by thinking that one more centre-half will do the trick, 2) Decide to mirror the tactics of a manager that has made a living out of playing 352 which lead to 4) Depending a lot on Phil Jones to defend properly, 5) Removing Pereira from the role he's been giving us some decent performances and turning him into a defensive calamity and subsequently 6) Forcing both James and Rashford deeper than we wanted and leaving Martial all alone upfront. It took our staff 70 minutes to come to the earth-shattering revelation that the inherent weakness of the 352 in the defensive phase is in the wide areas, more so when the opposition has even overlapping centre-halves. So, if we put pressure on those areas (442), we might get the desired outcome.

But one can argue that these things happen. My question to those people who can clearly see progress and that we're heading towards the right direction is this: This is the infamous United way that an insider from the Fergie era will bring? Being so scared of a newly promoted side that we actually have to change our whole set up to match theirs and treat the game like we're facing Liverpool?

 

[dove]

Liverpool finished 8th in his first season and got top 4 in his first full season.

So Pep gets time to implement his style and it’s ok because he has aging defenders. Doesn’t Ole deserve the same time to implement his?

were 9th but it doesn’t always tell the full story, we’ve dropped points in winning positions against Arsenal, Liverpool, Sheffield United, Southampton, Wolves, aside from today’s game we should have won all the others.

we’re not a million miles away, in my opinion

The constant comparisons with Klopp and Pep are ridiculous. Ole has absolutely nothing in common with the other 2. Do you Ole's fanboys really watch our matches? He is one of the most inept managers we had in 4 decades, one of the worst managers PL has ever seen.

 

[Cee90]

Deep down, I think the majority of us knew Ole wasn't good enough for the job.

Until today I was in the 'Ole in' camp, however I think enough is enough.

There were some positives from today's game, however I just can't see us getting any success under him unless there are some dramatic changes - both with player recruitment and our coaching.

 

[bleedred]

Sacking Moyes to go to LvG went so well didn't it.

It did, didnt it?. from 7th we improved to 4th and then 5th and an FA cup. was that not an improvement?

 

[RedBanker]

Fergie was a pretty fecking big one.

Klopp did nothing at Liverpool for two years

pep finished 4th in his first season
Villa manager, fairly certain they were mid table half way through last season then won 10 in a row (they were calling him out too)

there’s plenty and there just the ones I can remember, but it doesn’t fit your rhetoric

It feels sad to see people still quote SAF as an example. I think these people live in a time warp. Football has changed. Please do not quote examples from history when the game had romantic possibilities and fairytales in it. There are none now. Ole is out of his depth. Get to grips with it if at least you can't be bold enough to call for his sacking. No one likes their manager to be sacked. It's a sure sign that the club is not doing well. But we cannot confuse utter mediocrity with the need for stability. Tell me would Bayern or Barca put up with this? Would any elite club put up with this in the last 10 years? Of course some are happily resigned to the fact that we are not elite anymore. I am not. The rule for success is to keep trying until you get it right. That is how any big invention was made. The Wright brothers didn't settle when their first models failed. They didn't think that ok let's forget about flying and settle with cycling. So let's not forget that we used to fly higher than all others. Let's not give that up just to back an individual who in all honesty may have the best interests of the club in his mind but just does not have the nous.

We are not Villa and please do not even quote Klopp in the same sentence as Ole. Do try to remember a few examples that suit your rhetoric.

 

[Cpt Negative]

This is the issue I have with all this. All the time we're told to have patience patience patience, and yes, I agree, patience is due when you see positive progress and a clear style of play trying to be implemented, Klopp and Guardiola have recognisable styles of play that they are given time to implement because everybody knows what they will be getting, that's why, even if they do bad in their first season, you see enough positives to carry on. This is what having patience is, having patience when it's clearly not working, there's no plan, no tactics, nothing, well, what's the point? What exactly are you being patient for, the penny isnt going to suddenly drop one game and we adopt some world class style of play for the rest of Ole's tenure then.

Can you genuinely offer one credible point in giving Ole more time, other than the fact he used to play for us? Based on what you seeing on the pitch? What style of play? We look dogshit everytime, simple as that.

Yes, I can see what his plan and tactics are, we’ve looked immensely better since Martial came back, we’ve had horrendous injuries and without our best and most creative player for all bar 5 or 6 games.

get a creative midfielder in that team and it’s a different story, but we’re relying on Perrera, Fred, McTominay, Lingard to create.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Whilst Woodward remains in the role he is in then he'll always be keep for me, if that changes then so will my vote.

 

[Kemizee]

Sacking Moyes to go to LvG went so well didn't it.

It didn't becuase just like Ole, both of them were out of their depth. We cannot just sit down, fold our hands and say 'we can't sack a useless manager because we already sacked another useless one earlier and nothing happened' . That's not how the game operates. We just need a manager on the upward trajectory with a lot od potential and discerning, modern style of football. This manager is not Ole I am afraid!

Rose. Nagelsmann and even Poch for instance are all better managers than Ole. Ole is not the best manager this club can get considering the two best, Klopp and Pep coach our rivals. We can do better than him by a million miles and sentiments of him being an ex-player is not allowing many to think rationally!

 

[SAFMUTD]

I'm happy that a significant amount of people do realize the task is difficult with the window we had and the injuries we have faced this season. After-all it's quite easy to change the vote to sack after going two down. But good to know many still have faith.

Thats all you can have with Ole, faith, blind unreasoned faith.

 

[Irwin99]

I am embarrassed to see the change in voting patterns based on singular results and now convinced that upwards of 30% of those voting are non-Utd fans as there is no rational way to explain how the garbage that is being served up by the current team is worth persevering with!

And now that a credible option has presented an opportunity to make a change, they still cannot fathom the absolute chasm between Ole and Poch in terms of coaching ability!

To be fair, it's bloody confusing at times watching this team and you've got people on both sides of the fence making both ridiculous assertions but also making some good points here and there. I feel as though there have been a few positives creeping in over the past month or so but the reality is we're fecking 9th in the table and have won just 4 times in 13 league games!!! We have Spurs and City coming up too.

I started this season being really sceptical about our top 4 chances but I said let's just finish the season and assess from there. I changed my vote after the Newcastle game to sack because the form and performances were genuinely horrific but i'm kind of going back to just letting this season run its course. I don't think any manager comes in now and gets this side a top 4 finish which was the club and Ole's stated objective at the start of the season. Might as well just see this out now.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Liverpool finished 8th in his first season and got top 4 in his first full season.

So Pep gets time to implement his style and it’s ok because he has aging defenders. Doesn’t Ole deserve the same time to implement his?

were 9th but it doesn’t always tell the full story, we’ve dropped points in winning positions against Arsenal, Liverpool, Sheffield United, Southampton, Wolves, aside from today’s game we should have won all the others.

we’re not a million miles away, in my opinion

Pep got time because it was clear to everyone with eyes that his players were really getting accustomed to the style that he wanted to coach, only his defenders were lagging as they were old. But there is no clear visible changes happening under Ole for us, we look as disjointed as we were under Mourinho, LvG and Moyes. So why should he be given time when we clearly know he can do nothing?

 

[Cpt Negative]

The constant comparisons with Klopp and Pep are ridiculous. Ole has absolutely nothing in common with the other 2. Do you Ole's fanboys really watch our matches? He is one of the most inept managers we had in 4 decades, one of the worst managers PL has ever seen.

Yes, I watch them and attend an awful lot of the same games. The contrast in styles from Jose, LVG and Moyes is clear, I’m not even an Ole fan boy, I’m just someone will find a quote on here where I said I didn’t think it was the right appointment but I hope I’m proven wrong.

 

[Fooza]

Comparing Klopp and Pep to Ole? Doesn't really matter how long they took to get their teams going.

Look at what they've done in their previous clubs before and the influence they had.

Really, what has Ole done? Norwegian league and Cardiff doesn't cut it.

Get rid, I have no faith he has what it takes to take this club to where it belongs. Being just an ex player isn't good enough.

 

[redIndianDevil]

To be fair, it's bloody confusing at times watching this team and you've got people on both sides of the fence making both ridiculous assertions but also making some good points here and there. I feel as though there have been a few positives creeping in over the past month or so but the reality is we're fecking 9th in the table and have won just 4 times in 13 league games!!! We have Spurs and City coming up too.

I started this season being really sceptical about our top 4 chances but I said let's just finish the season and assess from there. I changed my vote after the Newcastle game to sack because the form and performances were genuinely horrific but i'm kind of going back to just letting this season run its course. I don't think any manager comes in now and gets this side a top 4 finish which was the club and Ole's stated objective at the start of the season. Might as well just see this out now.

If we get a an actual decent coach, he can use this year as a base for the changes needed so that he can plan the next season better but if we persist with Ole till mathematically top 4 is not feasible, the next year will again be a transition year. So why waste this precious time on someone like Ole who can never get better?

 

[ash_86]

Thats all you can have with Ole, faith, blind unreasoned faith.

Sometimes that's all is required.

 

[manunited1919]

Have you also realised he's responsible for us not attacking after our third goal?

No matter how much fans here moan, he won’t be sacked yet. He will be given more time, as well he should. There is still hope patience will pay off if we stick with him.

I have not been in favor of many of the planning he has put into the team. This season is already done for us due to the bad decisions over tge summer. But I am seeing some small signs of hope. If we can get a decent midfielder or a number 10 to replace Lingard over the January transfer window, we can be a more functional team all around.

 

[Amerifan]

I’m still in the keep camp, but today frustrated me. With two minutes to go our guys showed absolutely no clock awareness or urgency to win. Back passes, low energy running, standing around. We should have had at least one more attempt on goal.

 

[Cpt Negative]

It feels sad to see people still quote SAF as an example. I think these people live in a time warp. Football has changed. Please do not quote examples from history when the game had romantic possibilities and fairytales in it. There are none now. Ole is out of his depth. Get to grips with it if at least you can't be bold enough to call for his sacking. No one likes their manager to be sacked. It's a sure sign that the club is not doing well. But we cannot confuse utter mediocrity with the need for stability. Tell me would Bayern or Barca put up with this? Would any elite club put up with this in the last 10 years? Of course some are happily resigned to the fact that we are not elite anymore. I am not. The rule for success is to keep trying until you get it right. That is how any big invention was made. The Wright brothers didn't settle when their first models failed. They didn't think that ok let's forget about flying and settle with cycling. So let's not forget that we used to fly higher than all others. Let's not give that up just to back an individual who in all honesty may have the best interests of the club in his mind but just does not have the nous.

We are not Villa and please do not even quote Klopp in the same sentence as Ole. Do try to remember a few examples that suit your rhetoric.

this makes zero sense. I provided 4 examples, 3 from the last few seasons of exactly what the poster asked for. So I can’t say Klopp didn’t nothing for 2 years because he’s a better manager than Ole? I didn’t compare Ole and Klopp.

Again, I can’t Use Villa as a recent example because we’re not Villa, so if I can’t use anyone who isn’t United, I’ll have to use an example from United, which I did, but you’ve took exception to that too.

 

[Bastian]

How can anyone mention SAF in relation to Ole's nothing CV? Fergie had broken up the Old Firm domination in Scotland and won a European Cup with Aberdeen, beating Real Madrid to win the Cup winners' Cup (followed up by the European Super Cup). SAF was already something really special by the time he arrived at OT.

Please do not bring him up as an example of giving someone who has done nothing time.

 

[always_hoping]

One of the reasons why it's probably best for Ole to be replaced is because he's a manager with little or no luck.

This season alone
Wolves A
Palace H
Southampton A
Liverpool H
Arsenal H
Sheffield United A

Under a lucky manager would all be wins. Very frustrating viewing for us supporters.

 

[mu4c_20le]

How can anyone mention SAF in relation to Ole's nothing CV? Fergie had broken up the Old Firm domination in Scotland and won a European Cup with Aberdeen, beating Real Madrid to win the Cup winners' Cup (followed up by the European Super Cup). SAF was already something really special by the time he arrived at OT.

Please do not bring him up as an example of giving someone who has done nothing time.

You could say he broke up the Rosenborg domination in Norway. If not SAF, then definitely Klopp like

 

[SAFMUTD]

Sometimes that's all is required.

The vast majority of times it isn’t.

 

[Cpt Negative]

Pep got time because it was clear to everyone with eyes that his players were really getting accustomed to the style that he wanted to coach, only his defenders were lagging as they were old. But there is no clear visible changes happening under Ole for us, we look as disjointed as we were under Mourinho, LvG and Moyes. So why should he be given time when we clearly know he can do nothing?

he’s signed 3 players and 2/3 of them have been our better players.

 

[MrBest]

There lies the problem. We are not a big club as far as on-pitch progress is concerned. Football wise, we have accepted and celebrated mediocrity in the last few years!

At least in previous years it was a chance to finish 4th, under Ole we are well and truly a mid table team. What on earth is he trying to fix? How many years does he need? Rodger came in saw the problems which were bad at Leicester and then made a few huge signings in areas they were lacking. 6 months later Leicester are 2nd. I think people are just accepting mediocrity purely because of our former players who keep banging on about not sacking a manager (not 1986 anymore) and secondly, Ole is ole. Such a shame.

 

[NJM78]

Come on Ed realize the mistake you have made and rectify it, your job unfortunately will not be threatened by another failed manager. The excuses must stop...Ole is simply out of his depth.

 

[MackRobinson]

The midfield options are truly shocking without Pogba. I still think he deserved until the end of the season as long as United are in the top half.

 

[redIndianDevil]

he’s signed 3 players and 2/3 of them have been our better players.

Signing players is only part of the job you know and most clubs don't give their managers the power to sign players too.

 

[Andycoleno9]

If today's game doesn't end with his sacking( and those 3 stooges around him on the bench), I give up. From all Ole threads.

There is nothing what can be said now or in future. He is limited, out of depth, defensive manager with mentality of small club manager. He is ruining us and will keep doing that. With smile on his face( he was smiling after a fecking lucky draw against SU. Can you imagine Klopp, Jose, Pep, Fergie or any other big club manager doing that?)

 

[Irwin99]

If we get a an actual decent coach, he can use this year as a base for the changes needed so that he can plan the next season better but if we persist with Ole till mathematically top 4 is not feasible, the next year will again be a transition year. So why waste this precious time on someone like Ole who can never get better?

I can see your point but there have been a few positives over the past month in that the attack is finally coming together (perhaps at the expense of the defence) and crucially, these players are obviously behind Ole in a way that I don't think Spurs or Arsenal players were entirely behind their managers at the start of the season, which resulted in one of them being sacked recently. A team that doesn't care about the manger doesn't pull off a comeback like today.

One of the reasons why it's probably best for Ole to be replaced is because he's a manager with little or no luck.

This season alone
Wolves A
Palace H
Southampton A
Liverpool H
Arsenal H
Sheffield United A

Under a lucky manager would all be wins. Very frustrating viewing for us supporters.

urghhh, and this a myth that needs to die. We didn't deserve a win from most of those games. There's massive bias here. If you think we deserved to win against Wolves because we dominated possession then by that token Leicester and Liverpool should have beaten us. There were barely any chances in that Wolves game other than an early Martial miss and a crap penalty (they also hit the bar in the game). The palace game was shite, as was Arsenal and Southampton were better than us on the day.

 

[Kemizee]

No matter how much fans here moan, he won’t be sacked yet. He will be given more time, as well he should. There is still hope patience will pay off if we stick with him.

I have not been in favor of many of the planning he has put into the team. This season is already done for us due to the bad decisions over tge summer. But I am seeing some small signs of hope. If we can get a decent midfielder or a number 10 to replace Lingard over the January transfer window, we can be a more functional team all around.

My God! The level of delusion is strong. Anything for Ole our ex-player and legend! Would you say this same thing if it were any other manager who had no prior affiliation to us displaying this level of ineptitude? I guess not!

 

[SteveW]

We've started to score a lot of goals recently. Get Pogba and McTominay back and we'll start reeling off the wins. It's incredibly frustrating that we don't have competent back up for them. Our midfield might as well not have been there today.

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

I said in the match thread that I love the guy and that he's been shafted by the board and injuries, but a performance like that after eleven months in charge isn't acceptable for Manchester United. This is getting desperate now; we don't seem to have a game plan or a style of play; we have no leaders on the pitch; were are too reliant upon young kids who can't be expected to work miracles.

Like all United fans, I'm willing Ole to succeed, but how much longer do we give him? The squad simply isn't good enough; we are mid table team now. Do you give him the January transfer window or not? I'm torn on this, but I will say if you promised me someone like Pochettino tomorrow, I'd give him the job. We need a total re-build on the pitch, and we need that clown Woodward gone from the boardroom.

Ole will always be a legend, but I'm not convinced he can turn this around. That said, I'm not clammering for his sacking; I'm on the horns of a dilemma here.