Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Andycoleno9]

Only if you're comparing Klopp and Ole right now. Comparing the beginning of Klopp's reign with Ole is not so absurd.

Aside from results and squad issues already well covered in this thread by @Bobcat, there are further similarities such as struggling to break down teams who sit back but having very good results against the better teams.

Klopp also started from a much better base than Ole, Liverpool were struggling after the loss of Suarez but they were title challengers not too long before he took over which is a far cry from where we were when Ole arrived.

Now, as @Bobcat said, nobody is claiming that Ole will have similar success but you can certainly draw comfort in several comparisons between them if you look at things positively instead of searching only for the negatives.

There is no similarities at all.
Klopp came for tier A league where he won it two times as underdog. Ole came from tier 3 or 4 league. On big stage Ole has one try which was complete debacle.
Klopp in his first season managed that his team is playing football( of course it was not something special then but still you could have see his signature). Ole after 11 months still parks the bus and puts extra defender against championship teams.

So yeah, only way to compare those two is if you want to list 2 opposite examples. Good manager vs bad manager.

 

[Emrethis]

Our version of second was not in any way comparable to the second place Liverpool had under Rodgers. They were genuine title challengers.

I don't know where to start with the contradictions throughout the rest of your post.

We may not have been genuine title challengers, but we still finished above 18 other teams in the league. It was still a strong base for Ole to start with.

 

[youngrell]

There is no similarities at all.
Klopp came for tier A league where he won it two times as underdog. Ole came from tier 3 or 4 league. On big stage Ole has one try which was complete debacle.
Klopp in his first season managed that his team is playing football( of course it was not something special then but still you could have see his signature). Ole after 11 months still parks the bus and puts extra defender against championship teams.

So yeah, only way to compare those two is if you want to list 2 opposite examples. Good manager vs bad manager.

So you're just gonna pretend that Klopp didn't get relegated with a small team, just like Ole did in his first top flight job? Or that Klopp left Dortmund because he was guiding them to a mid table finish?

What you're actually doing is providing more similarities, keep going...

 

[el3mel]

Well done disregarding other competitions to push your narrative.

Yeah the mighty 2 wins against Partizan make loads of difference.

 

[Massive Spanner]

It’s not the only reason, I don’t see changing manager again as a solution. There are bigger problems to deal with, not sure why everyone focuses so much on the manager these days.

Wait, what?

The manager is the single most important aspect of a football club.

Look at Pool before Klopp, they were a shambles, every bit as bad as us results wise and in the transfer window, and now look at them since they hired him?

Jesus Christ man, get a grip, your defenses are an embarrassment.

 

[Massive Spanner]

So you're just gonna pretend that Klopp didn't get relegated with a small team, just like Ole did in his first top flight job? Or that Klopp left Dortmund because he was guiding them to a mid table finish?

What you're actually doing is providing more similarities, keep going...

After winning the league twice and reaching the CL final

What is wrong with you people?

It's one thing to try and defend Ole, it's another to try compare him to Klopp. It's some of the most moronic shit I've heard. It's like saying I'm comparable to Nelson Mandela because I donated to charity that one time a few years ago.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Wait, what?

The manager is the single most important aspect of a football club.

Look at Pool before Klopp, they were a shambles, every bit as bad as us results wise and in the transfer window, and now look at them since they hired him?

Jesus Christ man, get a grip, your defenses are an embarrassment.

Can only be as good as the players are, unfortunately a lot of ours aren’t up to scratch.

Managers are also mainly over titled coaches these days.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Can only be as good as the players are, unfortunately a lot of ours aren’t up to scratch.

Managers are also mainly over titled coaches these days.

No that's absolute bullshit and you clearly have no understanding of football if you think that.

 

[theklr]

What really dissapointed me after the Sheffield draw, was how he didnt take any self-criticism of the tactics at all and instead complained about the players enthusiasm, which is really unlike him.

Also he way Rashford said they should have just gone for it instead of pegging back (maybe hinting at the sub with Tzuansebe).

There was also some report that more players are unconvinced of OGS as a manager. I really dont hope he is starting to lose the dressing room, but if he is, he is a goner before January for sure.

So far it seems there has been much harmony between him and the players.

 

[youngrell]

After winning the league twice and reaching the CL final

What is wrong with you people?

It's one thing to try and defend Ole, it's another to try compare him to Klopp. It's some of the most moronic shit I've heard. It's like saying I'm comparable to Nelson Mandela because I donated to charity that one time a few years ago.

Simply pointing out that he listed only Klopp's positives and Ole's negatives.

As I mentioned earlier, it is silly to compare Klopp and Ole right now, but there are comparisons to be had to when Klopp was starting out in top flight football. It still doesn't mean that Ole will make it or that I think he will, but there's nothing wrong with looking at other successful manager's climb to the top and finding positives or encouragement in that.

 

[momo83]

I think Ole is tactically limited, I still see the team with no real shape in the build up to attacks. We seem to be incapable of doing anything but rely on our forwards pace to score goals. That said, our midfield is complete and utter shit at the moment, without Pogba and (cant believe im saying this) McTominay we are absolutely fecked. Fred and Perriera as a midfield two would not start for any top side. I think it was a colossal mistake not to sign any midfielders in the summer, everyone looking at the squad knew that but the club failed miserably.

I'm really torn about this one, there are some good managers sitting on the sidelines right now but if the club goes ahead and sacks Ole right now we will start over, again, for the fifth time in seven years. I also think that it does not solve the problems of the owners, Woodward, and recruitment strategy to sack the manager yet again. And whos to say that it will work out if we get Poch or Alegri? With idiots running the club it almost doesnt matter whos the manager.

Don’t get this “start again thing” all Ole has done is bought and sold players. I doubt selling Maguire, AWB, or James will be top of the new managers intray. Not as if Ole has implemented a style of play that will need to be overhauled... so Ole is the perfect manager to replace.

 

[youngrell]

Yeah the mighty 2 wins against Partizan make loads of difference.

Still being selective.

 

[steffyr2]

I have a feeling that Ole will ultimately fail, but have the patience to ride this out a while longer, especially while the team have started to show some improvement recently whilst also dealing with very difficult circumstances around the squad and injuries.

Why is the Ole out crowd shouting so loud at the moment when we're on the best run of results we've been on this season?

I can't help but think that there's a lesson here for all new managers -- have your team collapse to near relegation level -- and then your fans will be thrilled when you creep back to mid-table. What are those silly people thinking (Lampard) who have to team doing well from the start? All that extra effort, with no payback!

 

[Kemizee]

Quite irritated with this place lately and I see nothing done about it.

You are entitled to think Ole should be sacked and you are entitled to believe he should stay, there are arguments for both and I won't disagree with anybody who has a decent argument for their case.

What I am sick of seeing is the abuse and downright disgusting comments aimed at Ole.

Fraud, Dipshit, Idiot, Clueless feck, arsehole... It is tiring and it doesn't add to the conversation whatsoever.

Quality control here is lacking and the people who spout this drivel need sorting.

Those two he certainly is. A clueless fraud of a manager. What's the big deal in saying it how it is?

 

[Massive Spanner]

Simply pointing out that he listed only Klopp's positives and Ole's negatives.

As I mentioned earlier, it is silly to compare Klopp and Ole right now, but there are comparisons to be had to when Klopp was starting out in top flight football. It still doesn't mean that Ole will make it or that I think he will, but there's nothing wrong with looking at other successful manager's climb to the top and finding positives or encouragement in that.

Except by the time Klopp had managed for a comparable about of time to Ole he had already achieved far more than him. I fail to see the comparison, really. Ole has never shown any glimpses of potentially being a good manager at "top flight" level. Klopp by this stage had already worked wonders with Mainz and was building a great title winning side at Dortmund.

 

[Foxbatt]

Agree with el3. We all know what he did as a player for United. No one is arguing about it but this is a different story. We are talking about his coaching abilities. Jurgen Klopp has won the Bundesliga. Not only did he win it once he won the double in Germany and led Dortmund to the CL finals. Now if Ole had done the same I am sure people would give him the benefit of the doubt. Winning the Norwegian League and winning the Bundesliga is like apples and oranges.

 

[GBBQ]

What are the actual arguments for keeping him? Nothing that i have seen seems to be based on any facts and is more trading off good will or a worry about things getting worse.

1. Its not the United way to sack managers - We've been blessed with Sir Matt and Sir Alex, but outside of those long appointments we're pretty much par for the course in terms of how long we give managers
2. He's a club legend and deserves a chance - So are Keane, Hughes, Robson, Bruce and I wouldn't give any of them the hotseat.
3. He understands the United ethos - he might understand it but he can't implement it. We're toothless in attack, he doesn't give youth a chance unless he has no option but to. He went defensive after going 3-2 up against Sheffield United, SAF would have gone for the 4th and 5th goal. His all out attack prior to becoming permanent manager is a distant memory!
4. We're seeing signs of improvement - Are we though? We were outclassed for 70 minutes by Sheffield united. We couldn't beat 10 man Southampton. We might raise our game against top level opponents but it means nothing; we need to beat the also-rans, not become them.
5. We've seen too much turmoil at the club and can't go through another sacking and change of style: That points to a bigger problem in terms of previous managers but sticking with Ole doesn't solve that issue, it just kicks the can a little further down the road. Its good that the Board are willing to stick with a project, I just think they've picked the wrong project to back.
6. It doesn't matter who the manager is, no one will succeed under the Glazers - Managers have had success under the Glazers, in fact we've won at least on of every trophy since they bought us. They don't make it easy for sure and we have that part of the problem still to solve but it doesn't
7. Klopp, SAF, had similar difficult starts but came good - These are the exceptions to the rule, plenty of other managers had similarly bad starts and ended up being crap managers - thats the most likely scenario when a manager has this run of form. The difference is Klopp and SAF had a history of success which meant it was worth sticking with them. Ole's managerial CV is terrible and there's nothing to suggest this is a blip while he implements his style

 

[Leftback99]

I honestly don't get at which point exactly will the Ole in crowd stop comparing Ole to situations of other managers and admit that he hasn't been good enough so far. At which point will they start thinking that maybe, just maybe, he's also a problem ? What are they waiting for to start thinking that ? When we splash 500m and buy a full lineup from scratch ?

Because you are incapable of seeing past short term results in a season plagued by injuries to key players in a thin squad.

I'll judge him this season against my expectation of 6th when I feel he's had a fair chance with something close to the team he planned the season around.

I understand the Ole out crowd. You want wins at all costs and you want them NOW, we get it.

 

[youngrell]

I can't help but think that there's a lesson here for all new managers -- have your team collapse to near relegation level -- and then your fans will be thrilled when you creep back to mid-table. What are those silly people thinking (Lampard) who have to team doing well from the start? All that extra effort, with no payback!

Good points. It's not like Lampard has lost twice to Ole this season along with a number of other poor results among the good ones, with a better, fitter squad.

 

[Kemizee]

Problem is, outside the first 11 the squad is mid table at best. Sure, we can argue all day on who`s fault that is, but nobody knows.
Truth is the first team has not had time to gel or play together, and i dont think its rocket science to figure out what that means. If Chelsea or Leicester miss a few key players they will struggle to. And they will.

Zero experience building? He built a Molde team twice. Its not like there is a spine of that team still intact. They are a selling club. And he did it and competed in Europe twice. Just look at the player turnover at transfermarkt.

What a trainwreck of a post. Anything to defend that out of depth manager called Ole. How many months do you need to gel? How long has it taken Lampard and Brendan to instill their blueprints on their new teams? The squad is not midtable. Ole Solskjaer made it mid table with his ineptitude. We are definitely better than some of the teams we have lost or drawn to this season. That is all on the manager! Stop making the excuses for that clown!

 

[Mainoldo]

Simply pointing out that he listed only Klopp's positives and Ole's negatives.

As I mentioned earlier, it is silly to compare Klopp and Ole right now, but there are comparisons to be had to when Klopp was starting out in top flight football. It still doesn't mean that Ole will make it or that I think he will, but there's nothing wrong with looking at other successful manager's climb to the top and finding positives or encouragement in that.

Ole’s been managing for 10 year and will never hold a candle to Klopp. Next we will be judging Wilder and Fergie. Jesus.

 

[Andycoleno9]

It’s not the only reason, I don’t see changing manager again as a solution. There are bigger problems to deal with, not sure why everyone focuses so much on the manager these days.

I can't believe that Man Utd fan who watched best manager in history in work can say something like that. Ffs, manager is the most important person in club. He is more than 50% of the team. He can make team better( or worse). Good manager will make his team 20 or 30% better than it is.

Why do you think that top clubs pay 10-15 mil per season for top managers? Just for fun?

 

[Massive Spanner]

Because you are incapable of seeing past short term results in a season plagued by injuries to key players in a thin squad.

I'll judge him this season against my expectation of 6th when I feel he's had a fair chance with something close to the team he planned the season around.

In your eyes, how many results are fair to judge him on?

20? 30? 40? 50? 100?

 

[Foxbatt]

What best run ? We haven't even got 2 wins in a row in the league so far.

It is pointless to show facts in these games. They all want to believe what they want to believe. At one stage Ole was compared to SAF and when they realised how ridiculous it sounded, it became that none on CAF has won anything compared to Ole. When that sounded ridiculous now it is Ole to Kopps start at Liverpool. Klopp took Liverpool to the EL and LC finals in the same year. Yes Ole might get us there but I don't see it.

 

[Bobcat]

That's not true. He finished top 4 in his first full season and comfortably. They finished top 4 in each one of his full seasons so far. If you want to conclude his first season when he took the job in November or October without a summer market as a full year then you should count Ole's last season as well, no ? We're actually at similar stage to where Klopp was in Liverpool, in the first full season of a manager after a mid season appointment the previous one. The difference they were far better, football, results and position than us at same stage.

Well, 1 point away from Arsenal at 5th isnt very comfortable, third season he also finshed 4th

Except it didn’t take two years did it, they started that first full season competing for top 4 and finished 4th. As I said after 13 games they had 30 points, 17 points would have had them level with West Brom. Think there would have been plenty of moaning from Liverpool fans then.

Have you even read the articles you posted none of them are supporting your point. One of them is even pointing out it’s ridiculous people on twitter to be complaining.

I go back to my original point all you are really saying is that a much better manger who inherited a similar situation to Ole was doing a much better job at the same stage.

There’s no comparison with Klopp, if you want a comparison compare Ole to Moyes. Both had similar records, both out of their depth only problem is Moyes didn’t go on to win the Champions League and got sacked.

If people can try and compare Ole with Klopp in any way then must be able to manufacture a narrative that Ole matching Moyes deserves praise.

And in our case its also mostly online fans who are complaining. So far the match going fans have been nothing but supportive. The thing is though, the season is not over yet. Yes we had a shit start, where we have been plagued by injuries and bad results, but that does not mean its impossible to improve? We are 13 games in for Christ sake, with most of those games we have missed our two most important players and no one til fill their shoes

If we go on and replace him today, have you considered the long term consequences? How long do we give the next manager? What signals does it send?

If we sack him now, the implication is that the squad is just fine and its all down to tactics and coaching right? Changing managers would mean that our tactics went from pure shite to genius overnight and we should see the results of different coaching in a couple of months. Well say we got Poch and that did not happen, do we sack him in May? How many games into the next season does he get? 10? 15?

We would then had 4 managers in 6 years, all of which would have had their reputations tarnished, in infamous CEO and a squad that has some serious holes in it. Unless you fix it in one year, your head goes on the block next. Who would want that job?

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

So you're just gonna pretend that Klopp didn't get relegated with a small team, just like Ole did in his first top flight job? Or that Klopp left Dortmund because he was guiding them to a mid table finish?

What you're actually doing is providing more similarities, keep going...

After going there midseason and saving them from relegation in the third division, after promoting them to the Bundesliga, after achieving European qualification with them and, of course, after staying and getting them back into the Bundesliga after their relegation.

And after raising everybody's eyebrows in Germany, while managing in the second division, because of his revolutionary gegen-pressing...

But never let the truth ruin a good story.

 

[youngrell]

It is pointless to show facts in these games. They all want to believe what they want to believe. At one stage Ole was compared to SAF and when they realised how ridiculous it sounded, it became that none on CAF has won anything compared to Ole. When that sounded ridiculous now it is Ole to Kopps start at Liverpool. Klopp took Liverpool to the EL and LC finals in the same year. Yes Ole might get us there but I don't see it.

That's the whole point, isn't it? Let's see if he can before we cut him off.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

That's the whole point, isn't it? Let's see if he can before we cut him off.

How long do you give him? Remember SAF was granted time because of what he'd done as a manager previous to EARNING the Manchester United job.

So how long do we give Ole and can he not do a Souness and set up back a decade with terrible decisions if he stays too long and isn't good enough?

 

[Massive Spanner]

That's the whole point, isn't it? Let's see if he can before we cut him off.

Why should we?

Dortmund hired Klopp because of what he achieved at Mainz. Liverpool then hired him because of what he achieved at Dortmund. Spurs hired Pochettino because of S'Hampton and now a bigger club will hire him because of Spurs etc. etc.

Ole hasn't earned the right to be given time at a club like Man Utd. If a manager without the CV to prove that he can make the step up wants to be given time at a club then he needs to show that he can do it, like Lampard is doing right now at Chelsea, otherwise what exactly is the point of keeping him?

You are essentially placing sheer blind faith in a manager who has no proven history of being able to do what we want him to and whilst here has so far been a disaster in most metrics. It absolutely makes zero sense to "see if he can before we cut him off".

 

[youngrell]

After going there midseason and saving them from relegation in the third division, after promoting them to the Bundesliga, after achieving European qualification with them and, of course, after staying and getting them back into the Bundesliga after their relegation.

And after raising everybody's eyebrows in Germany, while managing in the second division, because of his revolutionary gegen-pressing...

But never let the truth ruin a good story.

Exactly what I was pointing out to the OP in the first place. It's easy to list the positives for one man and the negatives for another to make your point. The truth is in the middle.

 

[Mainoldo]

That's the whole point, isn't it? Let's see if he can before we cut him off.

He can what? He’s never... never ever ever ever... going to be that guy.

 

[Leftback99]

In your eyes, how many results are fair to judge him on?

20? 30? 40? 50? 100?

Well if I judge based on his overall time in charge I believe he's 5th in the PL.

Like I said when he's had a fair shot with close to his best line up (like certain current managerial favourites have) I'll judge him then. I expected 6th with what we had pre season.

 

[youngrell]

Why should we?

Dortmund hired Klopp because of what he achieved at Mainz. Liverpool then hired him because of what he achieved at Dortmund. Spurs hired Pochettino because of S'Hampton and now a bigger club will hire him because of Spurs etc. etc.

Ole hasn't earned the right to be given time at a club like Man Utd. If a manager without the CV to prove that he can make the step up wants to be given time at a club then he needs to show that he can do it, like Lampard is doing right now at Chelsea, otherwise what exactly is the point of keeping him?

You are essentially placing sheer blind faith in a manager who has no proven history of being able to do what we want him to and whilst here has so far been a disaster in most metrics. It absolutely makes zero sense to "see if he can before we cut him off".

Whether he should have been hired or not is a different issue, but he was hired, so what is the point in cutting ties right away? And at a time when things have improved, albeit very slightly, and should hopefully continue to improve with the return of some key players.

 

[youngrell]

How long do you give him? Remember SAF was granted time because of what he'd done as a manager previous to EARNING the Manchester United job.

So how long do we give Ole and can he not do a Souness and set up back a decade with terrible decisions if he stays too long and isn't good enough?

I'm not sure, but we should at least see how we get on with our strongest team available. Our already thin squad has been spread even thinner with injuries and yet we've still shown some promise in patches with a very young and inexperienced bunch.

It is not like our strongest XI have us in this position, playing dreadfully game in game out. And I'm not saying it's been great, either, just trying to have some perspective with my opinion.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Whether he should have been hired or not is a different issue, but he was hired, so what is the point in cutting ties right away? And at a time when things have improved, albeit very slightly, and should hopefully continue to improve with the return of some key players.

What do you mean right away? He's been here a year. Just how much time should we give him exactly?

I don't think anything has improved, I think that's very evident based on the performance against Sheffield at the weekend. Those first 70 minutes were possibly the worst I've seen from us under him.

 

[troylocker]

OK how is this - he's 3 points from 16th. He is 7 points from relegation and 9 points from 4th. He is the very definition of midtable and has a group of players capable of a lot more.

His 130m injection into the defence did far from solving the problem as we concede similar amounts to teams that leak goals for fun (Brighton and Bournemouth) and concede more than newly promoted side who didn't spend on their defence (Sheffield). He has colleagues who have made better change in less time and he has no established style of play. He makes frequent poor selection decisions and is out of his depth in the interviews he takes, suggesting the team has come on very far because they got a point to a newly promoted Sheffield.

There, enjoy eating some facts.

Still just your opinion though. The only facts you put in there is the first 2 sentences, the rest is just your take on things. Your last sentence looks to me like you try to throw an insult at me. Did it feel good serving that "Ole-in-guy" some devestating facts. Haha!

I think our league position and results through 1/3 of a season, where we in my opinion so clearly are in a just started rebuild state with injuries haunting us from the start of the season, doesn't define his quality as a manager.
It is in my opinion impossible to know where or how this project will end. It can still be a massive success given time, and it can still be a total failure. I think the quality of a manager is not a constant either, it is continuously changing and what works in one club doesn't necessarily work in another. There is so many variables that plays in; football skills, people skills, knowledge, luck, chemistry, injuries, player pool, personality pool, etc..... This is why I think a rebuild takes time, and expectations must be long term, not short term. Aim for success in the short term leads to exactly that in my opinion, short term success. I don't think we can give a fair evaluation of Ole and his project until we have seen a couple of more windows to fit more pieces of the puzzle into place (midfield and attack), and until then I want to see how it goes, and enjoy the ride of ups and downs. Do I think he's the MAN to get us back to the big scene? I think he can be and all I can do is give my support.

For your information I lost a lot of hair for an hour on Sunday too. If we are not looking at serious improvements this time next year, I will be voting for the boot too….

This is just my opinion.
I won't call you names if you disagree, but don't state your opinions as facts. It just undermines you and a good debate….

 

[Majima]

I was skeptical of Solskjaer's appointment from the beginning. Even during the run & before PSG away. We know managers in the Norwegian league aren't normally in consideration for the top jobs. To land one of Europe's top jobs, (he is now one of the highest paid managers in the world) based on being a well regarded former player here, was absurd to me. (And no it is not similar to Zidane or Guardiola, he had 10 years of experience & no other club in the PL would have ever touched him).

Regardless, since he was here, i was willing to give him a chance at least.

The winning run at the start was massively overrated, we had a 3 game purple patch, where we played confident football before reverting back to type. the performances were mostly mediocre after that, vs Spurs we got battered in the 2nd half and if not for De Gea's heroics & uncharacteristic poor finishing from Spurs, we would have lost comfortably by the end. That game summed up the initial run.

March 26th, 2 days before his permanent appointment:

What if Ole and co aren't capable of anything more than being defensive and counter-attacking? Would you still trust them to take over?

I have these doubts myself. I'm not sure I can say I trust them fully atm.

I certainly hope this is not Ole's actual philosophy.

Do people not think it is hypocritical to bash Mourinho for being a defensive manager, yet celebrate Ole for being just as defensive, just because he ''gets the club'' ?

April 25th:

How can Ole be exempt from criticism when he's been here for 4 months now. We should be seeing some evidence of his coaching by now. All i can see is us looking more and more clueless by the week, getting outplayed by everyone we come across. In the past month or so, he's got outplayed by Nuno twice, Pellegrini who's West Ham had the better of us at home, Javi Gracia who's Watford had the better of us at home too & Marco Silva's Everton. Forget City, those are the matches that i form my opinion on. If he can't even get the better of them, what chance has he got vs the rest of the top 6?

For me, it's about knowing that you are going in the right direction. If we consistently play good but keep getting unlucky with results, i'm perfectly willing to give more time, knowing that eventually, our results will change.

At this point, i suspected he wasn't capable of much more:

Seems to me that Ole is all about playing up to fans romanticism with the nice words but once I look past all that and focus just on the performances, I'm not impressed at all. We play like pure rubbish. At this point, we don't even look like a football team. We seem to go from game to game, hoping to get lucky. I can't see any clear patterns to our play. (This has gone to pot since LVG)

I'm hoping this will change in the summer when we have a clear out but I'm not holding my breath after the renewed contracts to Young & Jones.

In short, I don't have high hopes for next season. I think him & the staff are just bluffers.

I was willing to wait until after pre-season, to give him a chance to bring in his own players, work with the team & see if anything changes.

By now, i think i can answer confidently that it is not going to change. He has been here a year now. He is defensive and counter-attacking by nature. The performances have been consistently poor, going back to February. The results have been disgraceful throughout.

He has 25 points from 21 league matches overall. He is averaging 1.19 points. That equals 45 points overall. That is 13th place 3/5 last seasons. That tells me everything i need to know about him as a manager. I do not think we have anything to build upon in the future when the performances are so consistently poor.

Flashes of individual quality is not progress to me. We will beat Aston Villa, then people will proclaim progress, to only lose the following week. It is one false dawn after another.

That is why i have no confidence in him going forward and hope he is removed as soon as possible.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Exactly what I was pointing out to the OP in the first place. It's easy to list the positives for one man and the negatives for another to make your point. The truth is in the middle.

No, it's not in this case. You were drawing parallels with Klopp's managerial beginnings. Klopp was viewed as a prodigy right from the start of his career and he managed to make a name for himself before even managing a team in the Bundesliga. Solskjaer has been a lukewarm manager for a decade.

What you are doing is stretching his two bad seasons in almost a decade in management which can be attributed to the fatigue that comes naturally after managing the same team for 4-5 seasons to excuse Ole's failure. How do we know it's this and not a major fault in management by Klopp? Well, he's been climbing the ladder of success gradually and, sadly for us, he's still going upwards and he's still evolving as a manager. He didn't have the job of his dreams fall right into his lap, he's managing one of the biggest clubs in England on merit.

 

[Marcelinho87]

Those two he certainly is. A clueless fraud of a manager. What's the big deal in saying it how it is?

Because it's not true.

If he was either of those he wouldn't get jobs in management anywhere, this isn't picking or packing at asda.

Just because it isn't working out doesn't mean he is clueless or a fraud.

 

[Roboc7]

Well, 1 point away from Arsenal at 5th isnt very comfortable, third season he also finshed 4th



And in our case its also mostly online fans who are complaining. So far the match going fans have been nothing but supportive. The thing is though, the season is not over yet. Yes we had a shit start, where we have been plagued by injuries and bad results, but that does not mean its impossible to improve? We are 13 games in for Christ sake, with most of those games we have missed our two most important players and no one til fill their shoes

If we go on and replace him today, have you considered the long term consequences? How long do we give the next manager? What signals does it send?

If we sack him now, the implication is that the squad is just fine and its all down to tactics and coaching right? Changing managers would mean that our tactics went from pure shite to genius overnight and we should see the results of different coaching in a couple of months. Well say we got Poch and that did not happen, do we sack him in May? How many games into the next season does he get? 10? 15?

We would then had 4 managers in 6 years, all of which would have had their reputations tarnished, in infamous CEO and a squad that has some serious holes in it. Unless you fix it in one year, your head goes on the block next. Who would want that job?

Seriously you think managers won’t take the job because they might get sacked?. That is such an odd reason to give as an excuse, managers are sacked left right and centre.

Have you considered long term consequences of sticking with a manager who is out of his depth and has absolutely no pedigree?.

You can’t change the owners, can’t chamge the CEO, can only change so many players. There is no magic transfer window where Ole gets Sancho and whoever else.

Manager has to improve this team in spite of his surroundings expecting an extremely limited manager who has no pedigree and who will never manage at anything like this level ever again to be the man to turn it all around is essentially stupid.