So would France be playing a 3-man midfield when Pogba is back from injury? Surely he won't be playing behind the striker as that is Griezmann's role.
Is Pogba as good as gone?
- Thread starter Irrational.
- Start date
This is a different argument but why are you slating McGinn and convinced he's not very good?Is McGinn better than what City, Liverpool, Real, Barca etc have in their CM?
It is amazing how much ambition our club and now fan base lack. Fred is being rated as playing well against Sheffield United by large portions of this forum, when just 8 years ago people would have rightly said that was a 2/10 performance from him, and now fans want players like McGinn to replace Pogba.
5 years time.. ‘yeah I hope we can get into the playoffs’
You mention Liverpool, you know that team that play with Henderson in their midfield, the lad they bought from Sunderland. Not to mention Robertson at full back, who they brought from Hull. Just because of where someone plays now isn't a stick to beat them with. They bought Wijnaldum from Newcastle too. It's probably the fact McGinn is Scottish which makes people mock the idea about United going for him.
Last season the injuries forced him to move back to a midfield 2 to help out McTominay, who was still finding his feet at the time. As a result, his productivity dried up, although his performances were still decent.
In any case, one thing I can absolutely guarantee you is that he doesn't play well "only when he feels like it", that's an absurd statement to make.
Hes our most talented but feck me he ain't the best. Turns up 3 months in a season, yeah no thanks.
Considering that Deschamps is a very stubborn with his tactics, he will try to replicate the same formation of the World Cup if he can, meaning Pogba part of a disciplined midfield 3.
Alright, corrections then. We're so shite we should immediately get rid of our 2nd best player ASAP!!
... I think you see where I'm going with this.
On paper it would be the best team possible, with Griezmann as a striker, Mbappe on the right and whoever is in form on the left. But I've never really seen Griezmann play well as the lone striker for France, maybe I just don't watch enough of the games though.
If he’s gone he’s gone not that bothered anymore, before I would have been upset but not now.
Would need to replace him well all the same.
Would need to replace him well all the same.
No where.
Is where we'll be if we get rid of our best players.
Who’s been better for us over the past 2 years as an outfield player? I want to know who this mystery man is. Pogba was easily our player of the season last year too.
Last time I checked our full squad turns up for 3 months of every season. Apart from Rashford and a couple others I don’t think they’ve turned up this season yet...
Because his performances elevate us to title challengers?
Or are we still fairly average with him in the team?
He wants to go, let him go.
He will never put a shift in here, he's proven that.
McTominay and Herrera were more consistent in their roles. Pogba was one of the best players in the world let alone the league for around 2 months. That doesn't mean he was great the whole season.
Also our team being shit doesn't mean Pogba is suddenly good. If we accept your premise he's second best that doesn't change the fact that most of our squad needs ripping up anyway.
And yeah I'd sell Pogba but also because he wants out and there's no point keeping a player wanting out.
Sorry I missed that post. First Pogba isn't better for France and he isn't more consistent but there are two differences first Kanté is great at marshalling the entire midfield, he doesn't play the role that he plays for Chelsea but more a role similar to Makélélé, secondly Pogba isn't expected to do as much, Griezmann is the main playmaker, Matuidi is the one supposed to make late runs in the box and Giroud/Mbappé are expected to make the difference in the box. Pogba's role is to be the main helper which he does often well but sometimes terribly. Overall there is enough quality in the french team to cope when one player isn't doing his job properly be it Pogba, Kanté, Matuidi, Griezmann or Mbappé. An other point France generally doesn't play with an actual midfield 2, it's a asymetric formation where Matuidi is very close to Kanté and Pogba while Mbappé as a sort of free role that requires a constant balancing from the three players aforementioned.
Also keep in mind that we tried to build around Pogba and it failed, the team only started to play well when Kanté and Griezmann appeared which led to the team being built around Griezmann during the Euro.
Fair enough. What I'm getting from your posts and other people who follow France and Pogba closely even before coming back to United, is that we made a mistake in buying him as he was overrated, overpriced and not the midfielder we needed at the time.
I have to say, if we had a great team, Pogba would probably have been an incredible addition but it seems he was never going to be our midfield general that we desperately need.
This part is interesting. These days is it even possible to build a team around a midfielder? They can't make the difference in the way attackers can, so I don't see any justification for building around them.
I think these days it's best to have a functional midfield unit designed to get the best out of attackers, as they are the ones with the actual goals and assists every game. Building the team around Pogba shouldn't be something we are aiming for, as he probably won't ever be able to justify that consistently.
I am actually quite bored with the circus that is Paul Pogba , him being injured for so long will make it easier when he finally leaves , please go to Madrid but take note of the Gareth Bale saga be careful what you wish for
There's a big difference between he's rubbish and not worth it, sell him - or he wants to leave don't hold him back and keep an unhappy player.
IF Pogba tells the board and Ole he wants to leave then fine, I agree we shouldn't. Until the day he hands in a transfer request then he's our best player, and we need him.
We should be doing everything to keep him and surround him with quality, not sell him to the highest bidder to round off another european rival.
The point is for France he isn't needed to be the main man. He's a sum of parts that has Griezmann, Mbappe, Giroud, Coman all attacking and being dangerous.
The majority of time Pogba's played behind a misfiring attack in poor form, he's often needed to do it by himself. Right now our attack is actually gelling quite nicely, if we can add Pogba to Mctominay and Fred behind the front 3 I guarantee we'd be playing better football more regularly.
Pogba would never put an official transfer request as him and his agent would lose a lot of money.
typical bad luck for us- Madrid set their price and so far Pogba has barely played. I’m sure they’ll try to talk his price down cause of that.
Seems to me there’s moments where he gets the ball and just decides to wait*. Like all the energy gets sucked out of the game- those are the games where his form is poor.
The other is where he gets the ball and goes at players - sometimes effectively but other times holding the ball too long. Then others he bursts forward and quickly plays a pass and gets near the box and makes trouble.
the three stages of Pogba
Seems to me there’s moments where he gets the ball and just decides to wait*. Like all the energy gets sucked out of the game- those are the games where his form is poor.
The other is where he gets the ball and goes at players - sometimes effectively but other times holding the ball too long. Then others he bursts forward and quickly plays a pass and gets near the box and makes trouble.
the three stages of Pogba
I'm sorry, what price have Madrid set?
Agreed. The more top-level players we have the less we'll have to rely on the goals and assists of a central midfielder.
In any case I'm not 100% convinced about our attack yet. The forwards are doing well but as a team, we haven't shown as much as I'd like. Pogba coming back will only be beneficial to us as it's absurd the amount of time wasted on Lingard, Pereira, and Mata. Hopefully Ole abandons the Pogba DM experiment for our own good.
If I see Pogba start as a DM behind those three again, I just might lose it.
I would love to have seen him in a great Ferguson side. Such a shame that this never happened.
For lack of better analogy, ideally for me Pogba is an aftermarket part and not an essential cog in the engine. He is inherently inconsistent and you can see it during the games that people consider good, if people have a look at the run of good games last season Pogba form would change from 15 minutes to the next, that's the type of player/character that he is. I like to watch him play but I don't think that I would like to coach him during games, he is reactionary, he doesn't anticipate much which is often an issue defensively and can sometimes be a problem offensively too.
Well then he won't get sold, especially in January. The only way he goes in the summer is if we know for sure he won't sign a new deal, and we want to protect our money.
Personally I don't think he will sign a new deal in our current plight, so we will probably make a deal that suits both parties in the summer.
I get your point about us selling our best players. On his day Pogba is amazing. I don't think we'll definitely be nowhere if we sell him, like you responded to post above. We may or may not be better without, time will tell if/when we move Pogba on.
If we sell him and invest the whole fee and buy a few decent players out of it we may improve as a team overall.
I hope that all the weirdly angry boomers that wish to think that Pogba is some sort of bad apple actually follow him on his social media.. He is like the most chill guy ever.
Sadly, I think the argument is unwinnable by now, regardless of what should be considered absolutely conclusive evidence...much like the received 'wisdom' that the Conservatives can be trusted with the economy, or that @Mr Pigeon didn't steal MC Hammer's trousers and wears them on Tinder dates.
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And that's how a great love story began.. :wub:
I didn't say nowhere to that.
He said "you can tell where I'm going" and I answered nowhere, ie he wasn't going anywhere with his point
Where is your evidence of ‘he has always disrespected the club and shown he has no desire to stay at the club’?
Really want him gone, we try to build the team around him for the past 2-3 years and same shit different day, good riddance for good money, we can at least get two players for his price and who would give a feck when playing.
We expect him to be the reincarnation of a black Bryan Robson.How is he footballing wise hard to justify, when he's our top scorer and assister? What more can he do than be the best in our team
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not as some people genuinely do expect that - but he's never going to be, or never was that style of player.
He's the Ensign on a ship, not the sail.
I know you didn't. That was the point that I was trying to make. I agree that he was going nowhere. I was trying to highlight the fact he used your valid answer to try to make a point that we would be fecked if Pogba went. I didn't manage to get that point across clearly. Sorry for the confusionI didn't say nowhere to that.
He said "you can tell where I'm going" and I answered nowhere, ie he wasn't going anywhere with his point
Why is it absurd? Pogba in his time with us has put in a lot of 4/10 performances. If you cant agree with this then there's no point going forward. He's also put in 9/10 performances, especially during our purple patch. If a player has the capability to produce 9/10 performances but more often than not produces a lot lower then I can only see 2 reasons for this.
A) He doesn't have the mental strength to produce consistent performances.
B) He turns up when HE wants.
Either way it's on Pogba. A) might be being a bit harsh on him because it's not really something he can control but it would mean I wouldn't want him in the trenches when things get tough and B) I definitely wouldn't want him in the trenches. Give me someone like Maddison any day of the week. (supposedly) not as gifted technically but almost guaranteed to give 7 or 8/10 on a more consistent basis.
If and its a big if Pogba comes back in January I can see him playing top level football for about a month to stick 2 fingers up at his doubters and once he's done that it will be back to the lethargic performances we've all become accustomed to and then once that happens it will be the same old excuses of still getting over injuries, being played out of position or all his teammates aren't good enough to make him him shine.
Haha oh OK. No problem!I know you didn't. That was the point that I was trying to make. I agree that he was going nowhere. I was trying to highlight the fact he used your valid answer to try to make a point that we would be fecked if Pogba went. I didn't manage to get that point across clearly. Sorry for the confusion
This is pretty much and always has been my view of the situation..
Ive no ill will towards the guy, watching him over the last few years ive just come to accept he's not the player some people hold him up to be. He's one of those players that have built a brand that exceeds the outcome on the pitch.
Regarding everyone banging on about him being amazing for France at the WC, from what i remember he was pretty anonymous in the group stages , and never really got going until the knockout games. I said at the time even without him, France may well have still won it regardless.
Im just tired of it all now at this stage, if he doesnt leave in January, he will in July. Lets just accept it and look to the future. The club at this stage should be focusing their efforts into preparing to bring alternatives in. Even bring in someone asap before he leaves... But we know Woodward doesnt really work like that
He's definitely had some bad moments, but to put them down as purposeful is what's absurd. Even if he's been as inconsistent as you say, it definitely isn't by choice. I understand the desire for someone like Maddison who'd theoretically be more consistent, but I think were he to come to this club his perception would change big time among the fans and media, as he'd be closely scrutinized game to game.
In any case, I would ask, have his teammates and coaches been good enough? You're implying he's been given all the tools to succeed at the club, and only he is holding himself (and us) back; that I just can't agree with.