Not to mention you can’t simply extrapolate Maddison’s Leicester performances into a different team, any more than you can copy and paste Pogba’s for France. Football doesn’t work like that.
Maddison isn’t a better player than Pogba.
Is Pogba as good as gone?
- Thread starter Irrational.
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Maddison isn’t a better player than Pogba.
Fair points but when Pogba was signed HE was expected to raise the level of his team mates not for him to fall to their level which he has done so on many occasions. His fee wasn't Pogba's fault but when you pay a world record fee for a player you should rightly expect a lot higher performances. For me it's no excuse because of what's round you to lower his expectations.
When he's had great performances he was playing with the same players as when he had bad ones so I can't see the reference here. A lot has to do with attitude. I'm not saying he's a bad apple within the squad because I don't believe that but sometimes his attitude when he's on the pitch leaves a lot to be desired. At least as an outsider (me) looking in that's how it seems. Maybe it's something subconscious from him and not meant but it does look like sometimes he would rather be anywhere else rather than on the pitch.
You saved me from typing.
But that's incredibly wrong, you are basically suggesting that if you buy a vauxhall for the price of a Bugatti, you should expect to have the same performances. The fee has no implication on what you are actually getting, if you failed to properly scout a player it's on you and it won't justify higher expectations.
Hated. Adored. Never Ignored. Pogba FC.
The man hasn’t played for months yet his name remains on the lips of every fan.
The hate for a pogba goes so far beyond his actual footballing ability; the success of the man upsets some of our fans so much it’s beyond debatable.
The man hasn’t played for months yet his name remains on the lips of every fan.
The hate for a pogba goes so far beyond his actual footballing ability; the success of the man upsets some of our fans so much it’s beyond debatable.
Maybe not but he would make us a better team which is all that matters. If we had 5 or 6 world class players then maybe Pogba would shine but as its going to take years for that to happen what's the point of keeping him?
Better goals to games ratio than when he was Juventus in a tougher league and shitter team and he still hasn't been good enough for caf user McGrathsipan. There's always something else, a little bit more that he has yet to achieve, like needing to dominate more matches or win more headers, or defend better in set pieces.
If I bought a vauxhall for the price of a bugati then I'd shoot myself in the head. World record fee aside the way you talk about Pogba is as if we signed a dud. That couldn't be further from the truth. Our purple patch seems to be used a lot here so I'll use it as an example. He was fantastic for 6 to 8 weeks. He was the player we thought we signed from the very start so from there that's been used as a benchmark for some of his not so good performances we've seen since. You seem to think he doesn't have it in him were he has proved that he has however short of time it lasted.
Most players have been disappointing but Pogba was one of those kind of players a lot of us had very high expectations for. We signed him the same summer we got Mourinho and the vibe was like we’re back to the big time ready to win trophies and that Pogba would be our talisman after Rooney and that we’d start another run of titles. Turns out that while he had the talent, he just didn’t fulfill those expectations. Maybe we expected too much.
Take away the penalties and it’s not impressive for a £100m player one iota. Subtract the missed ones it’s pathetic.
Don’t totally agree here. Big fees are often associated with high profile players and high profile players get to that point by performing well so it’s not unreasonable to have high expectations. Juventus clearly valued him highly hence his selling price.
Jose didn't use him correctly. He should have used him like he did with Alli. Too bad it took him 3 years to learn from this. A mourinho type of CM would be a midfield engine who keeps it simple, no silly flicks and constant pressing, probably why he appreciates McTominay so much.
Yeah there's always that little bit more. Or in Pogbas case large amount more.
The mere fact he's debated so much must tell you the truth. Half the fanbase and football world cant be wrong so its not just mcgrathsipan of the caf is it.
You can stick to your story. Ill deal with reality.
Pogba has been a massive let down at United.
Stats or not, he's been our best midfielder post Fergie. Should Herrera be rated a success over him because he runs more? You can say he hasn't lived up to his price tag, but not a success at all.... nah
He has been getting more pens here to shoot than at Juve. He scored 1 pen at Juve, while scoring 9 for us out of his 31 goals. Goals aside, the Juve's Pogba was head and shoulder above of United's Pogba and imo that is down to him more than anything.
Or is it because Serie A is equivalent to Scottish Prem these days, and Pogba played for their Celtic? Smalling is also bossing it over there!
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Well that was Serie A not La Liga.
Yeah at this period the league wasn't that good (it's stronger now though imo) but Pogba was coming to Juve as a kid who wanted to prove himself. I think he was more class, much hard worker and more influential imo. At United he has been blowing hot and cold.
Does "not a success at all" equate to failure? I wouldn't say so, because he hasn't been a failure but he hasn't been a success. What would you say he's succeeded at? Winning the world cup? Because that is what people turn to when speaking of his quality.
He has been part of squads that have barely scraped champions league, won the Europa league, etc, but nobody puts these things down as proof of his success, I believe simply because that isn't our level. He wasn't brought in to help us win the top 4 trophy, or the Europa league. He was brought in to help propel us back to our perch. And, in that, he's shown to not be a success. Sure, there are other factors to our lack of success, but he's not absolved of the lack of progress.
I'd say the mistake wasn't buying, it was trying to make him our Gerrard (or any other player who is supposed to carry his team, the footballing leader). We tried to force him to become a player he never was, he also thought he could be that player.
All in all he is very good player for me but the expectation on his shoulders went crazy with that high fee.
Give him a structure to perform in, give a defined and specific role in a functionning team, he will shine. Expect him to carry any team is a recipe for disaster.
When you take all these things into consideration, it is easy to see why many caftards are angry at him. They never really understood the player he really was
You cannot say without any certainty that Maddison would make us better.
There have been good to great players,over the years, who have struggled badly here to be certain of anything
During his United career, Pogba has never played in a team that was better than Juventus, under a manager better than the ones at Juve.
Mourinho was brought in for that. Pogba was brought in because we needed a midfielder and he was the best one available at the time, both in terms of talent and commercialism. And I maintain that Jose did not use him to his best ability.
Whatever his flaws are. He will a great option when back from injury! My personal pov on the "pog out" matter is: If he dont leave come summer, i think he will stay and contribute in "project Solskjaer ". If he lieves, he will in some way be misdied, but as the matches this season without him has showed, we can manage without him! Especially with new recruits!
He was supposed to make US better, not the other way round! That’s why we paid over £100m package for him and not an internship.
He’s been a disaster, because while we have invested that much in him for not a lot in return it’s meant doing less elsewhere as we ain’t a state funded club but his defenders blame united for not adding a few more £100m players so he can showcase his “talents”
He needs to be sold for the good of the club, that money they are talking about not only allows MORE players but lowers the average wage.
I don't think that we signed a dud but I also don't think that we signed a player worthy to be the most expensive player in the world. In Italy he wasn't far from Pjanic during his last season, Pogba is maybe better but not by much and there is a lot of midfielders that are better than he is or are at a similar level.
The problem is that people are seemingly expecting him to be the best current player, today they compare him to De Bruyne, a year ago it was Modric when he isn't better than Verratti who is himself not better than a prime De Bruyne or Modric. In Pogba we have a pretty good player who isn't good enough to lift a team by himself, which by the way didn't happen last season, our good period happens with Shaw and Herrera regaining form and the front three firing on all cylinders, Pogba played a significant part but it wasn't a one man job.
It's true what you say but I think a lot of good/great players haven't succeeded here because changing countries, new customs and playing in as a hard league as the PL makes it very difficult for them to reproduce their form for which they were signed for.
I'm all for signing players with the caliber of Maddison or Kane because they have a lot more going for them because they already know the PL and have obvious qualities which have more of a chance of success than failure. Of course it's subjective but I couldn't think of many reasons why Maddison wouldn't be a success with us.
And I still think Pogba at #10 position would benefit us so much. More of his good side and less of the bad like tracking back and starting play.
That's supposing that you properly evaluated the player, it's not because the fee is big that the player past and future performances justify it. In fact any fee whether it is low or high is ultimately detached from the actual player and his performances, you can sell or purchase for an inappropriate fee if you didn't evaluate that players properly which happens all the time, some players are bargains and others are grossly overpriced.
Oops, yeahWell that was Serie A not La Liga.
Yeah at this period the league wasn't that good (it's stronger now though imo) but Pogba was coming to Juve as a kid who wanted to prove himself. I think he was more class, much hard worker and more influential imo. At United he has been blowing hot and cold.
Serie AWe needed a midfielder that sets up and dictates the tempo of the game to replace Carrick. Mourinho obviously thought he would be the superstar option for that role. We should have gone for a Verrati or someone similar basically.
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Always easy to say from a distance. Who knows whether he will make us better? If he is able to perform to the exact same standard, without the same conditions, as he does at Leicester - then fair play. He’s also a pure 10. I imagine if he came, everyone will be eulogising about every creative pass he makes and not doing 30 minute analogies about every player he doesn’t track.
If a player does his job attacking, scoring and assisting but doesn’t track back it’s forgiven. If a player does neither, costs £100m spends months out over an “ankle” injury it’s not forgiven.
Your fault for falling to this. You cannot be angry at someone not being what he was never meant to do. There aren't many players who can improve struggling team by themselves. It was so obvious we massively overpaid for him. We're always gonna come back to this unrealistic expectation you had of him.
I’ve found the solution though, sell him.
Mata played at Chelsea, at a level Maddison hasn't come close to yet. Mata was used to playing in the PL. If Maddison comes at United, it will be for a ridiculous which will create the same expectation as Pogba which will translate into him getting slated in the future when he will not come to reproducing his Leicester performances at United;
If we can get a great fee and have a guarantee that it will reinjected into the squad, I'm all for it. Many fans mistake giving context for Pogba as fanboyism. Man United is and will always be the priority
We urgently need to beef up this squad, even if it is a bit short term for a real push at the europa. To get a profit out of pogba now would be fantastic, he’s been here four years now and I don’t see how he is going to progress into the player we ALL hoped he would be.
If an offer was in from juve/Madrid take it spend it and make an impact in January.
A club can evaluate if the price is worth paying, sure. And how a signing turns out ultimately depends on the player, I agree. But there is a correlation between a player’s level and his general market price. Take any top club’s best or second best player and consider what kind of transfer fee would be set. Any purchasing club is going to expect a big return.