UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

How do you intend to vote in the 2019 General Election if eligible?

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 30 4.3%
  • Conservatives

    Votes: 73 10.6%
  • DUP

    Votes: 5 0.7%
  • Green

    Votes: 23 3.3%
  • Labour

    Votes: 355 51.4%
  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 58 8.4%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 3 0.4%
  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 9 1.3%
  • SNP

    Votes: 19 2.8%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 6 0.9%
  • Independent

    Votes: 1 0.1%
  • Other (BNP, Change UK, UUP and anyone else that I have forgotten)

    Votes: 10 1.4%
  • Not voting

    Votes: 57 8.3%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 41 5.9%

  • Total voters
    690
  • Poll closed .
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Irwin99

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What would Labour have done? Get rid of zero hours contracts (and his job) and increase the minimum wage to below the level of the tories and also increase taxes. Which workers rights have been eroded specifically?


I'm not trying to be a tory twat, there's just some odd ideas about what Labour will do for the working class.
Well for one thing (maybe slightly digressing here) Universal Credit has been an unmitigated disaster for low income people. My sister is on it and honestly, the delays in payments and levels of bullshit you have to cut through just to get a payment are astounding. Labour have recognised that it’s a system that doesn’t work and did pledge to get rid of it. I honestly thought this would be a hugely popular decision but I barely heard anyone mention it in this election.

As for the worker rights, you don’t have sick pay or any stable employment in a zero hours contract. It’s what many people
Can only find work wise. Conservatives love to say that we have record low employment but it’s all distorted by people on zero hours or part time work that barely covers the bills. I believe, and correct me if I’m wrong that Ed Milliband in previous years tried to get them banned if he got in, again though nothing came of it.
 

Fiskey

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Well for one thing (maybe slightly digressing here) Universal Credit has been an unmitigated disaster for low income people. My sister is on it and honestly, the delays in payments and levels of bullshit you have to cut through just to get a payment are astounding. Labour have recognised that it’s a system that doesn’t work and did pledge to get rid of it. I honestly thought this would be a hugely popular decision but I barely heard anyone mention it in this election.

As for the worker rights, you don’t have sick pay or any stable employment in a zero hours contract. It’s what many people
Can only find work wise. Conservatives love to say that we have record low employment but it’s all distorted by people on zero hours or part time work that barely covers the bills. I believe, and correct me if I’m wrong that Ed Milliband in previous years tried to get them banned if he got in, again though nothing came of it.
The implementation of Universal Credit has been largely awful but most people realise its a sensible idea. The question then is at what level to fund it. People hate big re-organisations, what's the point in abandoning a system that is just beginning to work?
 

Irwin99

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:lol:

Jesus thats depressing. What were his reasons for voting tory ?
He actually voted remain but now is talking about the will of the people and all that stuff. He also loves Trump. I think he’s a bit confused but refuses to listen when you try to engage with him on this stuff.

People will say I’m arrogant etc. But this is genuine -I’ve seen some kids who think it’s rebellious and cool to see liberals pissed off and will do whatever it takes to do that, e.g vote conservative, praise Trump etc. The political correctness culture has in someways been counter productive in turning people away from liberal ideas and I can understand that frustration but geez! Is voting for the establishment the new anti-establishment ?
 

Mr Pigeon

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Well, the fighting is still going on. Had to break up a fight (well, a one sided beating) between two students because one had called the other a "Tory cnut" after finding out how he voted. The guy was just being honest with his friend and ended up getting sucker punched for it.

I then got called a Tory cnut as well for standing in the middle of the fight. I can't physically hold them but if they want to risk punching me in front of the cameras then that's their choice

Told the guy when he calmed down that I actually voted Labour, which set him off again as I was an "enemy" and should "feck off back to England" with the rest of the cnuts who "hate Scotland". Presumably the only party you're allowed to vote for is the SNP, but judging by this guy's shit haircut I'm guessing the only real party is the Monster Raving Looney one.
 

Fiskey

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Well, the fighting is still going on. Had to break up a fight (well, a one sided beating) between two students because one had called the other a "Tory cnut" after finding out how he voted. The guy was just being honest with his friend and ended up getting sucker punched for it.

I then got called a Tory cnut as well for standing in the middle of the fight. I can't physically hold them but if they want to risk punching me in front of the cameras then that's their choice

Told the guy when he calmed down that I actually voted Labour, which set him off again as I was an "enemy" and should "feck off back to England" with the rest of the cnuts who "hate Scotland". Presumably the only party you're allowed to vote for is the SNP, but judging by this guy's shit haircut I'm guessing the only real party is the Monster Raving Looney one.
Sorry to hear, and well done for your response.
 

Mr Pigeon

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Sorry to hear, and well done for your response.
Ach, they're just kids in one of the supported program classes. If it wasn't the election that started the fight it would have been something else. But, ffs, starting a fight with your mate because he voted for a different party to you? That's like starting a war because the guy on the other side of the hill wears a different type of hat.
 

CassiusClaymore

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Well, the fighting is still going on. Had to break up a fight (well, a one sided beating) between two students because one had called the other a "Tory cnut" after finding out how he voted. The guy was just being honest with his friend and ended up getting sucker punched for it.

I then got called a Tory cnut as well for standing in the middle of the fight. I can't physically hold them but if they want to risk punching me in front of the cameras then that's their choice

Told the guy when he calmed down that I actually voted Labour, which set him off again as I was an "enemy" and should "feck off back to England" with the rest of the cnuts who "hate Scotland". Presumably the only party you're allowed to vote for is the SNP, but judging by this guy's shit haircut I'm guessing the only real party is the Monster Raving Looney one.
:lol: Will be many similar scenes playing out over xmas dinner this year
 

SteveJ

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Guess who's back
Guess who's back
Guess who's back
etc
 

finneh

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There certainly are, this is the fundamental mistake Labour has been making for many years, people now don't vote according to their 'class', neither do they vote for the benefit of others, they vote for themselves, at least the majority do. Its not what the Government does for my 'class' its what it will do that affects me as an individual that persuades them where to put their 'X'.

It may surprise some in the current Labour leadership, but many of their previous 'cannon-fodder' voters have woken up to 'the state runs everything', idea',to the instruction to "keep still, do as your told and vote for us, we will house you, feed you, educate you, etc." Many now see that in years gone by, in particular to their grandparents/great grandparents age range, to those who suffered misery and in many cases abject poverty in both food, shelter and in terms of spirit, that in many areas around the UK this seemed a welcome, if restricted message.

In its early days Labour did represent a way forward for the 'masses', but it has long since lost that value. There maybe a resurgence in poverty, homelessness, etc. but nothing akin to the days of the 'workhouse' and sustained period of degradation that the poor suffered years ago. Labours underlying 'one size fits all' political thinking is dead, because most people now do have some aspiration that goes beyond just surviving, even those who are in such situations want more for themselves and their families, and they don't want state handouts they want opportunities for themselves. Only a small part of Labours promises touch on this personal aspirational idea, the idea of spending billions to renationalise various industries and services cuts no ice with a vast swathe of traditional labour voters, as the party found out in this election.

The Labour Party has to radically rethink its purpose, who its natural voters might be, but above all what is it that persuades people to vote, at all and in particular what will attract individuals, not anonymous masses.
It humours me when so many people say "I'd be happy to pay more tax", but at the same time donations of voluntary tax to the treasury are less than 0.00001% of tax receipts. Where are all these generous people who're apparently eager to pay more tax, despite the evidence showing almost no-one actually does this?
 

Mr Pigeon

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Guess who's back
Guess who's back
Guess who's back
etc
Is he going to back down after the pressure gets too much again, or will this time be different and he'll stay with a party for more than three seconds?

At this rate it wouldn't surprise me to see him try and get elected as a Tory candidate.
 

2mufc0

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It humours me when so many people say "I'd be happy to pay more tax", but at the same time donations of voluntary tax to the treasury are less than 0.00001% of tax receipts. Where are all these generous people who're apparently eager to pay more tax, despite the evidence showing almost no-one actually does this?
Yeah, that's not how it works.
 

Fingeredmouse

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It humours me when so many people say "I'd be happy to pay more tax", but at the same time donations of voluntary tax to the treasury are less than 0.00001% of tax receipts. Where are all these generous people who're apparently eager to pay more tax, despite the evidence showing almost no-one actually does this?
Do you know what we want more of? Private roads.
 

SteveJ

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Is he going to back down after the pressure gets too much again, or will this time be different and he'll stay with a party for more than three seconds?
Gawd knows, chief. He's had more parties than Tupperware.
 

RedChip

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It humours me when so many people say "I'd be happy to pay more tax", but at the same time donations of voluntary tax to the treasury are less than 0.00001% of tax receipts. Where are all these generous people who're apparently eager to pay more tax, despite the evidence showing almost no-one actually does this?
Surely, being happy to pay taxes isn't the same as donating it? Being one of those people, I would say what I mean is if the tax rate goes up to fund better public services, I would accept it as the new default setting.

As for donating, there are so many competing causes, the exchequer doesn't come anywhere near my priorities. I would guess that's why tax donations are low.
 

sun_tzu

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Is he going to back down after the pressure gets too much again, or will this time be different and he'll stay with a party for more than three seconds?

At this rate it wouldn't surprise me to see him try and get elected as a Tory candidate.
I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see a new centrist party emerge with the likes of
Watson, chukka, swinson, berger, Gymiah being on the TV pundit rounds and quite possibly a big old chunk of the plp and libs forming a new centre left party in parliament if labour goes full ash sarka and declares luxury communism as a goal with wrong daily and burgon in charge

I think chukka is done with the labour party but I don't think he's done with politics
 

Mr Pigeon

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Gawd knows, chief. He's had more parties than Tupperware.
:lol: ffs

I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see a new centrist party emerge with the likes of
Watson, chukka, swinson, berger, Gymiah being on the TV pundit rounds and quite possibly a big old chunk of the plp and libs forming a new centre left party in parliament if labour goes full ash sarka and declares luxury communism as a goal with wrong daily and burgon in charge

I think chukka is done with the labour party but I don't think he's done with politics
I declare a new party..it's called the People's Republican Centrist Party. Our pledges including killing the rich and killing the poor. Our mascot is a one eyed bear called Spudsy that is an illegal knock off but since our HQ is in China nobody can do anything about it.
 

EwanI Ted

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It humours me when so many people say "I'd be happy to pay more tax", but at the same time donations of voluntary tax to the treasury are less than 0.00001% of tax receipts. Where are all these generous people who're apparently eager to pay more tax, despite the evidence showing almost no-one actually does this?
Talk about a specious argument... Tax only works when lots of people pay it together and do so predictably.
 

Irwin99

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In its early days Labour did represent a way forward for the 'masses', but it has long since lost that value. There maybe a resurgence in poverty, homelessness, etc. but nothing akin to the days of the 'workhouse' and sustained period of degradation that the poor suffered years ago. Labours underlying 'one size fits all' political thinking is dead, because most people now do have some aspiration that goes beyond just surviving, even those who are in such situations want more for themselves and their families, and they don't want state handouts they want opportunities for themselves. Only a small part of Labours promises touch on this personal aspirational idea, the idea of spending billions to renationalise various industries and services cuts no ice with a vast swathe of traditional labour voters, as the party found out in this election.

The Labour Party has to radically rethink its purpose, who its natural voters might be, but above all what is it that persuades people to vote, at all and in particular what will attract individuals, not anonymous masses.
Wow, that reads like a Thatcher wet dream. The majority of people that I know of in my own class (working class) do not subscribe to that personal aspiration and enterprise stuff. They want to live decent lives where work is only a part of it but they get paid well and can live comfortably without struggling and have access to good healthcare. With automation progressing the way it is people are going to seriously need to reassess what work means to them and what role it plays in their lives.

The majority of people I know had the main complaint that although they liked the ideas of the manifesto (yes that includes ‘free things’) of the Labour Party they were entirely suspicious as to where the money would come from. There is no magic money tree etc.
 

2mufc0

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They've only got themselves to blame.
They've done a lot of damage after the election coverage. It's come to the point where I couldn't give a toss if the Tories scrap the licence fee
 

11101

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It humours me when so many people say "I'd be happy to pay more tax", but at the same time donations of voluntary tax to the treasury are less than 0.00001% of tax receipts. Where are all these generous people who're apparently eager to pay more tax, despite the evidence showing almost no-one actually does this?
To be fair I didnt actually know you could do that, although donations to government would be right at the bottom of my list. I suspect most don't know it's possible.
 

Stanley Road

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There certainly are, this is the fundamental mistake Labour has been making for many years, people now don't vote according to their 'class', neither do they vote for the benefit of others, they vote for themselves, at least the majority do. Its not what the Government does for my 'class' its what it will do that affects me as an individual that persuades them where to put their 'X'.

It may surprise some in the current Labour leadership, but many of their previous 'cannon-fodder' voters have woken up to 'the state runs everything', idea',to the instruction to "keep still, do as your told and vote for us, we will house you, feed you, educate you, etc." Many now see that in years gone by, in particular to their grandparents/great grandparents age range, to those who suffered misery and in many cases abject poverty in both food, shelter and in terms of spirit, that in many areas around the UK this seemed a welcome, if restricted message.

In its early days Labour did represent a way forward for the 'masses', but it has long since lost that value. There maybe a resurgence in poverty, homelessness, etc. but nothing akin to the days of the 'workhouse' and sustained period of degradation that the poor suffered years ago. Labours underlying 'one size fits all' political thinking is dead, because most people now do have some aspiration that goes beyond just surviving, even those who are in such situations want more for themselves and their families, and they don't want state handouts they want opportunities for themselves. Only a small part of Labours promises touch on this personal aspirational idea, the idea of spending billions to renationalise various industries and services cuts no ice with a vast swathe of traditional labour voters, as the party found out in this election.

The Labour Party has to radically rethink its purpose, who its natural voters might be, but above all what is it that persuades people to vote, at all and in particular what will attract individuals, not anonymous masses.
I vote according to my class, obviously people in the uk have some misguided belief in what their class is. I do believe they vote for 'whats best for me' and that appears to be Brexit oddly enough.
 

africanspur

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I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see a new centrist party emerge with the likes of
Watson, chukka, swinson, berger, Gymiah being on the TV pundit rounds and quite possibly a big old chunk of the plp and libs forming a new centre left party in parliament if labour goes full ash sarka and declares luxury communism as a goal with wrong daily and burgon in charge

I think chukka is done with the labour party but I don't think he's done with politics
Isn't that Change UK? Or the Lib Dems? I think we've been talking about this centrist wave for a little while now and they've not really materialised....

I do wonder if Chukka has embarrassed himself so much having 3 parties in the space of a year that he'll find it difficult to come back.
 

nimic

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And I'm all out of bubblegum.
It humours me when so many people say "I'd be happy to pay more tax", but at the same time donations of voluntary tax to the treasury are less than 0.00001% of tax receipts. Where are all these generous people who're apparently eager to pay more tax, despite the evidence showing almost no-one actually does this?
This is a non-argument. People don't say that because they think they individually can fund any programs on their own, which is what donating a voluntary tax would essentially amount to.
 

sammsky1

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Agreed, I think they were snookered. If they backed leave there’s no way they’d eat votes from tories or brexit party.

They could back remain and eat Lib Dem’s votes, and lose the labour leavers, which might have been the best cause.

I think the position they ended up in was best, but they should have set that stall out earlier, no one trusted them in leave and remain camp.
They were as snookered as Tory after referendum. In fact arguably Tory were more snookered given Cameron was so pro remain whereas Corbyn has been almost silent on the matter.

Tory party made the very hard decisions and went through the pain of respecting the referendum result. Labour didn’t. Simple as that.

As a Labour remain supporter they kept my hopes alive, but had they consistently supported Leave, voters like me couldn’t argue with them as they were respecting a democratic vote. I doubt labour remain would have moved en mass to LibDem as they have no chance of winning.

I also think Corbyn was a fool to accept the election. His only route to no 10 was via a 2nd referendum, which seemed just a few weeks away. I will never understand why they fell into that Cummings trap. Their wargaming was pathetic.
 

Ubik

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I also think Corbyn was a fool to accept the election. His only route to no 10 was via a 2nd referendum, which seemed just a few weeks away. I will never understand why they fell into that Cummings trap. Their wargaming was pathetic.
So much this. Begging for an election first rather than a referendum for a year because it was "the best way to sort Brexit", then complaining when you put up the worst performance since the 30s in that election for it being too Brexit focused, is bold.
 
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That's about the size of it. There are going to be a lot of very disappointed people in a couple of years.
hard left labour supporters have been disappointed for a long time - so what’s a few more years...

The country will have a far greater chance of thriving under this government.
 

Classical Mechanic

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So much this. Begging for an election first rather than a referendum for a year because it was "the best way to sort Brexit", then complaining when you put up the worst performance since the 30s in that election for it being too Brexit focused, is bold.
It also looked ridiculous when they switched from begging to election to trying to block one at all costs. It really was farcical.
 
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