The “Ole In” Brigade

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

"Re-adjust your expectations based on reality."

Yeah. My bad. We definitely should have expected to be below Wolves and Sheffield United and level on points with Newcastle at the midway mark of the season, not to mention a Chelsea team who have just lost their best player who they couldn't replace due to a transfer ban and have an even more inexperienced manager than us.

No, we should be in the top 4. If we are not, we are failing. If we are struggling to beat teams beneath us on a regular basis, we are failing. This is not to be expected.

 

[b82REZ]

This is exactly where I am with Ole.

If we get a top #9 and #10 and we don’t see a significant improvement against the lesser teams then that would be the point to part with Ole.

If we let Ole go now I feel there would always be a ‘what if’ lingering, especially once the new manager comes in and inevitably fails.

I know we’ve had some awful results but I’ve seen enough since he arrived to stick with him and see this run it’s course which I believe is two summer transfer windows (a chance at two full seasons.)

I mean if he goes now he literally had one summer window to correct the past 5 years of mismanagement and awful recruitment to the tune of 1 Billion**

I keep seeing this line from you who want to keep Ole, a new manager will "inevitably fail". We are seeing failure right now. Unless the next manager gets us relegated he wont be as much of a failure as Solksjaer. What makes you think any half decent manager wouldn't be an improvement on the unqualified charlatan we currently have in charge?

Like it or not Ole is statistically the worse manager we've had since SAF. You can try and spin it like he's doing some divine job and getting us back to the top but he simply isn't. We have regressed to the point that many people are accepting this season is over by Christmas. No managers, let alone the manager of United should be saying at this point of the season that we are just using this season as an extended pre season for next year. Its obscene and frankly no better than Moyes saying we aspire to be like City.

 

[Dec9003]

It was a joke to him, I know he's not of Ole cultists who thinks no one can do a better job than him.

Accusing people of being part of a cult isn’t very Christmassy.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I mean if he goes now he literally had one summer window to correct the past 5 years of mismanagement and awful recruitment to the tune of 1 Billion**

He’s had a winter window and a summer window, he doesn’t need to correct every mistake at once, he needs to make us a better side as soon as possible whilst implementing change. Our results this season after spending enormous money on one of the most expensive right back and centre backs in history don’t look good do they?

I mean, we look worse and stats tell us we are plenty worse than when the last guy got the sack after taking us to 2nd months before.

I’ll say it again, Ole getting rid of so many of the unlikeables in the squad was both his dumbest and smartest move. Dumbest cause he’s clearly made us weaker, smartest because that’s all that matters to some fans... likeable players.

 

[Denis79]

Gasoline on the fire. Each manager had their fan-boys as you call them and all defended their manager no matter what.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Which says exactly that.

”Exactly” this:

”Ole is a leech who's not resigning because he wants to enrich himself, because he knows he'll never get a good job ever again?"

Yeah, no it doesn’t.

 

[Flying high]

I keep seeing this line from you who want to keep Ole, a new manager will "inevitably fail". We are seeing failure right now. Unless the next manager gets us relegated he wont be as much of a failure as Solksjaer. What makes you think any half decent manager wouldn't be an improvement on the unqualified charlatan we currently have in charge?

Like it or not Ole is statistically the worse manager we've had since SAF. You can try and spin it like he's doing some divine job and getting us back to the top but he simply isn't. We have regressed to the point that many people are accepting this season is over by Christmas. No managers, let alone the manager of United should be saying at this point of the season that we are just using this season as an extended pre season for next year. Its obscene and frankly no better than Moyes saying we aspire to be like City.

Don't be silly. No one thinks that.

When a squad is as broken as ours was last year, you either have to spend massive amounts of money, or take a few steps back in order to rebuild.

 

[Halftrack]

He’s had a winter window

As if a newly appointed interim manager is going to be allowed to do business in a window right after he was appointed. I mean, come on now.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

As if a newly appointed interim manager is going to be allowed to do business in a window right after he was appointed. I mean, come on now.

He did do business that window.

First part of the master plan to rid us of the unlikeables. As I say, it’s worked a charm on some of you as it seems you’d prefer to finish 8th with Andreas and Williams playing rather than 2nd with Fellaini, Smalling and Lukaku.

 

[momo83]

As if a newly appointed interim manager is going to be allowed to do business in a window right after he was appointed. I mean, come on now.

He sold Fellaini who had recently signed a new contract.

 

[matherto]

Nothing about what Pochettino did at Spurs was flukey. I think we both know that you saying Poch hasn't proven himself as a better manager than Ole was an embarrassment of a statement.

It isn't though.

What has he proven?

He can do an okay job with an okay team and a good job with a good team. So has Ole. We currently have an okay team, we're getting an okay job done of handling it.

He's also proven he doesn't know how to play against big teams, he always fails in one of the cup competitions in the first game of that competition that season against a minnow, he's got a very spotty transfer history and he's on record as saying he doesn't need to win trophies.

We all know Spurs fluked their way into the CL final last year and beyond that, his record in Europe wasn't particularly good too.

Nor was his record in the PL with Spurs massively better than Villas-Boas or Harry Redknapp if barely at all with a better squad than either of those two had.

At this point I'm less OleIn than PochStayOut.

Until he actually goes to Barça or Real or at a push Bayern or Juve and proves that he's as good as people weirdly think he is, then he's just a posh Moyes. A manager with a reputation for doing 'great on a limited budget' with no experience at the top of the top, a shit record against the top of the top and no trophies to show for it.

 

[Halftrack]

”Exactly” this:

”Ole is a leech who's not resigning because he wants to enrich himself, because he knows he'll never get a good job ever again?"

Yeah, no it doesn’t.

Are you being pedantic for the sake of it? That's the essence of his argument. Ole got lucky and got a job where he makes tons of cash, and is only staying on because he'll never be able to get wages like this again. Or was there another reason for him to bring up Ole's salary? And call him a leecher?

 

[Paxi]

That's what it feels like when posters try to propagate the idea that Ole is anywhere near to the level of Pochettino. It's laughable. Embarrassing.

Accusing people of being part of a cult isn’t very Christmassy.

 

[Dec9003]

That's what it feels like when posters try to propagate the idea that Ole is anywhere near to the level of Pochettino. It's laughable. Embarrassing.

It is embarrassing yeah, Solskjaer has won trophies as a manager.

 

[Paxi]

It is embarrassing yeah, Solskjaer has won trophies as a manager.

Yeah well plenty of managers around the world won trophies in minor leagues, would you hire them over proven Premier League manager like Pochettino?

 

[JPRouve]

Perhaps you missed the part where for those 3 players coming in, 6 other players left. And already ageing players like Mata, Matic and Young are another year older and urgently need replacing.

Had Ole been allowed to bring in 6 players, it would be much fairer to judge him on performance.

I didn't miss a thing. Only one of these players was actually seen as a starter. Out of Darmian, Lukaku, Sanchez, Smalling, Herrera and Fellaini only Herrera was a potential starter, the rest were either ignored by Ole(Darmian), discarded(Smalling-Fellaini), demoted(Lukaku) or perpetually injured(Sanchez). But even then you can purchase more than 3 players for 150m, so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make other than the transfer moves weren't actually that good or smart when we take into account our needs.

Also I'm judging the transfer dealings, not Ole. Unlike many I don't consider that Ole is the only one responsible for our transfer dealings, good or bad, which is why I said "we" meaning the club.

 

[Halftrack]

He sold Fellaini who had recently signed a new contract.

Or an offer came in for a player on high wages who hardly played, and the club sold him before his value depreciated further. Ole might have been asked if he thought he'd have a need for him, but I don't believe for a second Ole would be allowed to initiate the sales of any players in that window.

 

[Bebestation]

What one Earth does this mean @Bebestation ?

I don't see the benefit of getting Pochettino in right this instant. I see why he should come in in the summer; to buy the players he wants and play the football he wants - however he comes in now and he really isn't getting much of that except a pressure free element coming from starting half way through the season.

I'd rather have Ole do what he says - build a squad for next season - let him get 2 or 3 players & hopefully by the end of the season Greenwood, Williams, Mctomminay, Garner etc will be a bit more confident enough for Pochettino to use straight away rather than him having to wait a year or 2 to do the same thing himself.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Are you being pedantic for the sake of it? That's the essence of his argument. Ole got lucky and got a job where he makes tons of cash, and is only staying on because he'll never be able to get wages like this again. Or was there another reason for him to bring up Ole's salary? And call him a leecher?

You're doing it again mate, where does he call him a "leech" or "leecher"?

The poster said something that deep down is true, Ole is getting incredibly well paid, miles more than he was on at Molde and if he fails here, it'll likely be his last big payday ever.
Does he "refuse to resign" because of that? No, probably not, he does that because he's no doubt as deluded as every other manager who stays on too long, because they believe they can turn it around.

 

[Dec9003]

Yeah well plenty of managers around the world won trophies in minor leagues, would you hire them over proven Premier League manager like Pochettino?

Probably not no, we’re used to not winning the league now so Poch would be perfect!

 

[b82REZ]

Don't be silly. No one thinks that.

When a squad is as broken as ours was last year, you either have to spend massive amounts of money, or take a few steps back in order to rebuild.

Yes they do. Go into any of the threads discussing the manager and you'll see his supporters making claims he's doing a job no one else had the balls to do, despite the fact that LvG was doing what OGS is doing now.

This idea that our squad was atrocious is overblown as well. Were we winning the league with that crop of players, probably not, with a few smart acquisitions could we? Most definitely. We had finished the previous season runners up to the highest points ever. We all anticipated Jose's meltdown but it was well known and like the guy or not we should have been signing more players to improve on that 2nd place finish. Once the Jose circus started last season was always going to be bad because of how Jose burns all his bridges and cuts off his nose to spite his face, but that doesn't change the fact that the same set of players were capable of a 2nd place finish. We saw that with the upturn in results during the honeymoon period where Ole acknowledged he didn't make any tactical changes, he just helped improve morale.

The issue now comes from the fact that since Solksjaer has implemented his tactics and moulded the squad to his liking we are worse off and now it's being claimed this rebuild will take years. Yes Sanchez was stealing a living and needed to go, but any manager worth his salt wouldn't offload all his experienced strikers in one summer during a rebuild. If the rebuild is as large as Ole In crew suggest you do it gradually, you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. If as it now appears Lukaku's attitude was bad, we should have prioritised a striker rather than blowing 80m on Harry Maguire, who is not a 70m upgrade on Smalling, no matter how many times he attempts a Scholesesque pass out of defence.

The expectations are constantly being dropped by the manager and the subset of supporters who seem to be blindly following him. That's never been accepted and shouldn't now especially from a man who claims to understand the club and its culture.

 

[VeevaVee]

That's a charged up OP for 11am Christmas Day

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I didn't miss a thing. Only one of these players was actually seen as a starter. Out of Darmian, Lukaku, Sanchez, Smalling, Herrera and Fellaini only Herrera was a potential starter, the rest were either ignored by Ole(Darmian), discarded(Smalling-Fellaini), demoted(Lukaku) or perpetually injured(Sanchez). But even then you can purchase more than 3 players for 150m, so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make other than the transfer moves weren't actually that good or smart when we take into account our needs.

Herrera aside, they were all disliked by the majority of our fanbase, so despite it being shite management and costing us so many points, it's all that matters to plenty of people because it somehow "proves" he's doing the right thing for the club.

Personally I think the right thing for the club is maintaining a strong competitive squad and slowly transitioning so that a) the players get used to it and more time to adapt, b) we remain attractive and c) so that the fecking manager can keep his job and see through the transition/rebuild.

 

[Halftrack]

You're doing it again mate, where does he call him a "leech" or "leecher"?

The poster said something that deep down is true, Ole is getting incredibly well paid, miles more than he was on at Molde and if he fails here, it'll likely be his last big payday ever.
Does he "refuse to resign" because of that? No, probably not, he does that because he's no doubt as deluded as every other manager who stays on too long, because they believe they can turn it around.

My bad, I failed to quote the whole post:

Ha ha ha. So now he is a saint?
He was a coach in Molde. Only and only because he is club's legend, he got biggest job in the world and is paid 10 times more. He would never be a coach of any decent club but he got this job. Now, only because he knows that his career on highest level is over after United, he refuse to resign despite having embarrassing results and displays on the pitch.

So no, he is not some good guy who is doing some kind of "sacrifice" for this club. He is a leecher who will not resign even if he gets this club relegated. It is like when you try to move your cat from somewhere and she sticks her claws into it.

There. Relevant part bolded.

Still, you defended the post when it was quoted in its entirety. It's not unreasonable to assume that you've actually read it when you're willing to defend it.

 

[Massive Spanner]

It isn't though.

What has he proven?

He can do an okay job with an okay team and a good job with a good team. So has Ole. We currently have an okay team, we're getting an okay job done of handling it.

What? Are you just on a wind up now or something? I cant have a reasoned debate with you if you seriously think what Ole has done here over the last year and previously at Cardiff and Molde is comparable to what Poch did at Saints and Spurs, because the difference in what they achieved is night and day.

Funny how every Spurs fan on here strongly disagree with the idea that Poch only did a "good" job, isn't it? But I guess you're the expert on that one.

Also are you saying we have a good team and Ole has done a good job with it or we have an OK team and Ole has done an Ok Job with it? I'd say the latter is more accurate but he's still done shit, not OK.

 

[redIndianDevil]

For feck sake it's once again just like last year with Mourinho, half of Mourinho fanboys bent over backwards and called people all names for his cnutish behaviour. Now it's the Ole fanboys who are clearly burying their heads in the sand to bend over backwards for another incompetent manager. If you cannot see that Ole has no coaching skills then no one can help you. Yes the last four managers have been crap that doesn't mean we shouldnt try to get a fifth one. We will eventually get a better manager just like Liverpool did and if the majority of our fans are blind idiots like the OP, then it will take us two decades just like Liverpool to get back on top.

 

[spiriticon]

I'm still 'Ole in'. Not because I think he's done a super job with the results so far, but because I see him trying to put together a potentially good young team which are still raw around the edges.

The situation reminds me of LVG. We sacked him too early. He also had trouble with the boring attack but we didn't give him time to sort it out.

 

[Paxi]

What? Are you just on a wind up now or something? I cant have a reasoned debate with you if you seriously think what Ole has done here over the last year and previously at Cardiff and Molde is comparable to what Poch did at Saints and Spurs, because the difference in what they achieved is night and day.

Funny how every Spurs fan on here strongly disagree with the idea that Poch only did a "good" job, isn't it? But I guess you're the expert on that one.

Also are you saying we have a good team and Ole has done a good job with it or we have an OK team and Ole has done an Ok Job with it? I'd say the latter is more accurate but he's still done shit, not OK.

What's more amusing is that one could maybe forgiven if Ole set Norwegian League alight. He himself has not won a trophy since 2013. But yeah beat Poch with that stick because he couldn't win a trophy at Tottenham and Saints. Ask Spurs fans, ask Saints fans and they'll tell you how much they rate him.

30% win ratio, Ole is doing his best though... it's unbelievable really.

 

[JPRouve]

Herrera aside, they were all disliked by the majority of our fanbase, so despite it being shite management and costing us so many points, it's all that matters to plenty of people because it somehow "proves" he's doing the right thing for the club.

Personally I think the right thing for the club is maintaining a strong competitive squad and slowly transitioning so that a) the players get used to it and more time to adapt, b) we remain attractive and c) so that the fecking manager can keep his job and see through the transition/rebuild.

I get your point and fundamentally you are correct but in this case the issue is simply that we spent 150m on three players that didn't warrant that type of investment at this time. As I said many times I like Maguire but not for 80m, I believed that we should have invested our money in midfield, the right wing and the right fullback position, the fact that our largest purchase was a CB is in my opinion shocking because it was the one position where we had too many players, yes an upgrade was needed in the near future but it wasn't the most pressing issue not when you actually lack numbers in midfield and attacking areas.

 

[spiriticon]

For feck sake it's once again just like last year with Mourinho, half of Mourinho fanboys bent over backwards and called people all names for his cnutish behaviour. Now it's the Ole fanboys who are clearly burying their heads in the sand to bend over backwards for another incompetent manager. If you cannot see that Ole has no coaching skills then no one can help you. Yes the last four managers have been crap that doesn't mean we shouldnt try to get a fifth one. We will eventually get a better manager just like Liverpool did and if the majority of our fans are blind idiots like the OP, then it will take us two decades just like Liverpool to get back on top.

Sure we will. After 2 decades of sacking and changing like Liverpool I'm sure our luck will change just like them. Bring on the 2040 title challenge.

 

[LJJT]

Bollocks! He's doing it first and foremost for himself, he's on a massive wage and he desperately wants this job and to hold onto it.

A year in he's proving to be nowhere near good enough and do any of us think he'll walk? Will he feck. Will he walk next December if we're in the same position? My arse he will, he'll be claiming it's a 4 year job.

Every single manager of Manchester United has done what they believe is "best for the club" because best for the club is what is best for them.

no they haven’t, not at all. Ole is man united, he does what’s best for the club. He’s Fergies disciple, he will do what is best for man united and their future. Mourinho was more interested in wrist watch promotion. Say what you want about ole but he’s trying to do his best for our club

 

[b82REZ]

I get your point and fundamentally you are correct but in this case the issue is simply that we spent 150m on three players that didn't warrant that type of investment at this time. As I said many times I like Maguire but not for 80m, I believed that we should have invested our money in midfield, the right wing and the right fullback position, the fact that our largest purchase was a CB is in my opinion shocking because it was the one position where we had too many players, yes an upgrade was needed in the near future but it wasn't the most pressing issue not when you actually lack numbers in midfield and attacking areas.

Was beginning to think I was the only one.

I don't like judging players solely on their transfer fee but it tends to be the metric most people use to claim a players worth so using that metric he was was more a 30/40m player and we had our pants pulled down royally.

 

[Hugh Jass]

I'm still 'Ole in'. Not because I think he's done a super job with the results so far, but because I see him trying to put together a potentially good young team which are still raw around the edges.

The situation reminds me of LVG. We sacked him too early. He also had trouble with the boring attack but we didn't give him time to sort it out.

I agree.

Should have kept Van Gaal when he won the FA Cup. A huge mistake in hiring Mourinho.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I get your point and fundamentally you are correct but in this case the issue is simply that we spent 150m on three players that didn't warrant that type of investment at this time. As I said many times I like Maguire but not for 80m, I believed that we should have invested our money in midfield, the right wing and the right fullback position, the fact that our largest purchase was a CB is in my opinion shocking because it was the one position where we had too many players, yes an upgrade was needed in the near future but it wasn't the most pressing issue not when you actually lack numbers in midfield and attacking areas.

Completely agree, I really like Maguire but as you say, right now he’s spent 150m, bought two of the most expensive defenders ever and has made us a worse team. That’s absolutely shocking.

 

[b82REZ]

no they haven’t, not at all. Ole is man united, he does what’s best for the club. He’s Fergies disciple, he will do what is best for man united and their future. Mourinho was more interested in wrist watch promotion. Say what you want about ole but he’s trying to do his best for our club

This is why so many people claim the Ole In people are letting their hearts rule their heads.

If he was doing what's best for the club we wouldn't be where we are now he wouldn't have put the burden of this season on the shoulders of a group of green youngsters who (Greenwood and William's aside) are no where near good enough to be in the first team. That's not good management, it's irresponsible and is now bordering on some kind of vanity project.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

My bad, I failed to quote the whole post:

There. Relevant part bolded.

Ah, fair enough, completely missed that. Daft post that.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

no they haven’t, not at all. Ole is man united, he does what’s best for the club. He’s Fergies disciple, he will do what is best for man united and their future. Mourinho was more interested in wrist watch promotion. Say what you want about ole but he’s trying to do his best for our club

No... he’s doing what HE thinks is best for our club, right now it appears that is shocking for our club.

 

[Flying high]

I didn't miss a thing. Only one of these players was actually seen as a starter. Out of Darmian, Lukaku, Sanchez, Smalling, Herrera and Fellaini only Herrera was a potential starter, the rest were either ignored by Ole(Darmian), discarded(Smalling-Fellaini), demoted(Lukaku) or perpetually injured(Sanchez). But even then you can purchase more than 3 players for 150m, so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make other than the transfer moves weren't actually that good or smart when we take into account our needs.

Our squad was thin on quality. We lost 6 players, some due to their style not fitting. If, as you suggest, his budget was only 150m should he have just persisted with the players that we all knew were not the long term answer for us? At some point we had to lance the boil which was the sheer amount of dross in our squad. If you know for sure whose decision that was, then you know more than the rest of us. But the fact is, when we sold Lukaku and loaned Sanchez and Smalling after the window closed, it should have been obvious how this season would go. Particularly if we happened to get key injuries.

 

[matherto]

What? Are you just on a wind up now or something? I cant have a reasoned debate with you if you seriously think what Ole has done here over the last year and previously at Cardiff and Molde is comparable to what Poch did at Saints and Spurs, because the difference in what they achieved is night and day.

Funny how every Spurs fan on here strongly disagree with the idea that Poch only did a "good" job, isn't it? But I guess you're the expert on that one.

Also are you saying we have a good team and Ole has done a good job with it or we have an OK team and Ole has done an Ok Job with it? I'd say the latter is more accurate but he's still done shit, not OK.

Forget comparing to Ole.

Poch didn't exactly light up the world at Saints or Spurs. He did okay. Somewhere along the way he gained a reputation as an amazing manager when the reality is, he really isn't. Look at results throughout his years in charge of Spurs and they lost games against the bottom teams that they should've been winning too and they had a much better squad than we've got currently.

He's not the second coming of SAF nor is he on the same level as Klopp, Pep, etc.

We have an okay team albeit not one that's anywhere near United standards that we expect of it. Ole has done roughly exactly what I expect from this team. We're wildly inconsistent and we can't break down teams that don't allow us space to use our pace which is pretty much exactly what this team is made up of. Playing so well against the big teams is a nice surprise right now as are the occasional 'moments' that we can produce (like the 3 goals against Sheffield United). Wanting more than that from the squad we've got right now is unrealistic, simply put.

Put a different manager in charge from the ones you've mentioned and we'll be here in a year's time with this same thread.

Find me the next great manager that'll make a vast difference because it isn't Poch and it isn't Allegri.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

It isn't though.

What has he proven?

He can do an okay job with an okay team and a good job with a good team. So has Ole. We currently have an okay team, we're getting an okay job done of handling it.

He's also proven he doesn't know how to play against big teams, he always fails in one of the cup competitions in the first game of that competition that season against a minnow, he's got a very spotty transfer history and he's on record as saying he doesn't need to win trophies.

We all know Spurs fluked their way into the CL final last year and beyond that, his record in Europe wasn't particularly good too.

Nor was his record in the PL with Spurs massively better than Villas-Boas or Harry Redknapp if barely at all with a better squad than either of those two had.

At this point I'm less OleIn than PochStayOut.

Until he actually goes to Barça or Real or at a push Bayern or Juve and proves that he's as good as people weirdly think he is, then he's just a posh Moyes. A manager with a reputation for doing 'great on a limited budget' with no experience at the top of the top, a shit record against the top of the top and no trophies to show for it.

Its still too early to say whether Poch is a great coach (cos that requires silverware) but Poch is a far better coach than Ole and it would be delusional to think its even debatable.

The resume of each coach speaks for itself e.g. Spurs qualified for CL in 4 out of 5 season under Poch while Ole has only gotten a job with hos two former clubs and Cardiff, and the latter couldnt even bear him for a year before firing him.

As for Spurs failures against big teams/stages, I dont see Poch as the cause but that he failed to overcome their psychological failures. Spurs have always been chokers, and even under Mourinho are yet to shed that mentality.