Silly, but par for the course now, we’ve gone full RAWK around here I’m afraid.
Can’t we just be pleased we’re in a good run of form and back in top 4 contention instead of trying to compare two league starts that were vastly different?
Comparing Ole’s and Klopp’s first 18 months
- Thread starter Florida Man
- Start date
Can’t we just be pleased we’re in a good run of form and back in top 4 contention instead of trying to compare two league starts that were vastly different?
Just out of curiousity, was Klopp ever missing two of his best for large parts of the season? Because in fairness, Solskjaer had been missing Pogba and Martial for considerable amounts of time this season, our return to picking up results coincided with Martial's return from injury.
Individual player ability, maybe, but read the rest of the post for context please. Our squad was rotten.
It’s an interesting question to be fair.
Mignolet
Clyne
Skrtel
Milner
Henderson
Lallana
Lucas
Can
Coutinho
Firmino
Sturridge
Benteke
Ings
Is that really worse than what Ole inherited? Sorry but I'm not agreeing
Ok, what does it exactly mean that our squad was rotten? It's not rotten anymore?
I don't know, but Martial plays the same role as Firmino right now by dropping deeper and linking with the others, especially Pereira, James/Greenwood and Rashford. He plays that role better than most because he's quite technical and doesn't lose the ball that easily. It's when Pereira, Fred and Scott/Matic or Pogba don't lose the ball too that we become very dangerous because then, we have ways to move the ball into space as we want it.
So in this case, Martial is critical and we need a back up when he is not around.
Again read original post for context. It is literally explained there.
Just for your lack of reading though, yes it WAS rotten and it doesnt take one summer to clear the mess up. We have Sanchez on our books still, Jesse, Rojo, Jones, Matic all on high wages and offer nothing to the team. I am also sure there are more players who are are paid far more than their ability. So yes rotten, as our higher ups have congested the team with over paid, incompetent players that couldn't give a toss about the club except for their pay packet. Ole seems to be our first manager with his head screwed on in this aspect yet people choose to not believe it and think we should be higher up the table with this abysmal squad that has also missed 2/3 of their best players for most of the season.
Yes Manchester United should be higher than we are, but not with this current crop.
Edit. Also how come we are comparing 18 months? I wasn't aware Ole had been here this long?
De Gea
Young
Lindelof
Smalling
Shaw
Pogba
McTominay/Matic
Fred/Lingard
Rashford
Lukaku
Martial
Not really sure how you can look at those two squads, take into context the time they've came in (so Firmino, for example, is new to the league, Coutinho was bang average) and say that they've had a better squad. At best, you'd have Milner, Clyne and perhaps but only perhaps Coutinho because Fred was absolutely awful in our team from the lot.
Like hooking up with Beyoncé (insert woman or man of your choice) & complaining that one day she may leave you.
Newsflash! 99.9% of all managers leave because of things 'went sour'.
Liverpool fans would accept gladly things going sour with Klopp after what he's done last season and what he will do this season.
If Klopp wants to come and sort our shit out, I'm all aboard. If not, there's really no point comparing Klopp and Ole's starts. Klopp was already a double German champion and CL finalist before Liverpool was even in his dreams.
Klopp is the best coach in world football today.
Klopp is the best coach in world football today.
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Exactly, thank you for the squad list. Imagine we compared wages into the equation as well, in terms of transfer strategy and resources to bring players in. It is no surprise Klopp had an easier time rebuilding when half his squad weren't on obnoxious wages.
I've read your post, it doesn't really clear up anything though because it still doesn't make sense. So we have players on high wages, sure, so did Liverpool, on top of that they've just gotten rid of one of their best players in Sterling (in massively toxic atmosphere), one of their most decorated in Gerrard and the experienced Johnson, having finished previous season in 6th, Klopp landing the job when they were drifting around 10th, all that combined with constant whining about their owners and their ineptitude, just like we currently are. Liverpool have also recently overpaid for dross like Benteke or Henderson (at that time it was nothing but a fecking joke). Nevermind players who were previously pivotal to their run for 2nd in the league table were constantly injured (Sturridge). Their manager was as toxic as you could make the claim for Jose, never forget that B-Dog was hanging his own fecking portraits in his house talking about him being his own biggest inspiration. Actually he was far more colossal wanker than Jose.
Before you complain about having players like Rojo or Jones on our books, I'd just like to remind that it was Ole under whom the contracts have been renewed with them. Two, three wins more and I'm 100% sure we'll renew with Lingard too, just like we have renewed with Andreas.
But take into the context of the United squad as well, McTominay hardly a shoein for a long term united career at the time, Rashford and Martial in and out of the XI with questions as to whether they were ever going to be good enough either
As for your assessment of Coutinho and Firmino, one of Klopp first results was a 1-4 win at City in which both were outstanding. The only player we had/have that's comparable with a 2015 Coutinho is Pogba
The only argument to be had over the 2 squads is whether they're at worst equal or how much better Liverpool's was. Ole in no way whatsoever inherited a better squad than Klopp did
EDIT: completely forgot about Klopps 1-3 at Chelsea before that City game as well when Coutinho scored twice
You're right about McTominay, we've actually had Herrera back then who was better than any of the midfielders mentioned bar Pogba. If you're talking about being in and out of the squad and questionmarks over being good enough or not, then it was pretty obvious that Benteke will never be good enough, Sturridge was injured for most of the season and iirc Ings had some massive injury that took him out for a year or so too.
Coutinho who you seem to be praising for no particular reason (his form exploded later on) actually had 8 goals 5 assists in the league, playing mostly on the left wing. Rashford had 7 goals 5 assists in 17/18 season from the left (playing less than Coutinho) and 10/7 in the subsequent season.
Laughable to compare our wages with that with what liverpool players were on for a start. For all the Rodgers hate your giving right now, he still had liverpool playing some brilliant football, actually managed a title challenge ( not like Jose's 2nd place, which he admitted was unprecedented with this squad). We had weekly tabloid leeks from people within the squad, players literally walking around the pitch ffs.
Also, can we point out that I don't think anyone here is lauding Ole as a better manager than Klopp, that would be laughable also. Didn't want to get into this comparing game, but kind of a joke to use Klopp ( in my opinion best manager in the world rn) as a stick the beat Ole with.
We had out chance to get Klopp, we didn't, Liverpool did, thats also thanks to our higher ups. We have Ole, inexperienced at this level, but shown more than any of the previous managers have. We are going through a rebuild currently, with ALOT of youth, time is needed yet people want to jump back on the merry go round like it has done us any good in the past?
Least this manager gets it and I garuntee if Ole ever Leaves, he will be leaving the club in a much healthier state than his predecessors.
There is nothing wrong comparing the two of them based on the first 18 months. It sends message that a manager needs time to rebuild a team. Both had some inconsistency results and some great results as well. We are not talking about the past 10 years anyway or their CV. Beside for people who is mentioning Ole got relegated with Cardiff, Klopp actually got relegated with Mainz.
The only reason why our squad looks better than Liverpool was at that time because Ole was able to improve lot of them which not our previous manager was capable to do.
The only reason why our squad looks better than Liverpool was at that time because Ole was able to improve lot of them which not our previous manager was capable to do.
I'm praising Coutinho because even back then his quality was clear, I understand even now he's a divisive player who many don't want to give any credit to
You forgot the most important metric of all:
Net spent first 12 months:
Klopp: €8m
OGS: €90m
Someone should look up the threads from back then to give us a clear view on how the squad was assessed back then.
Net spent first 12 months:
Klopp: €8m
OGS: €90m
Someone should look up the threads from back then to give us a clear view on how the squad was assessed back then.
Yeah, for a start you obviously aren't taking the years into consideration and how much inflated the market has become, nevermind us having far bigger financial muscle, hence the higher wages. I'm not sure why you're bringing up Rodgers' playstyle here when I'm talking about him being a colossal wanker from character point of view, not a shit manager (you could make a point for that too actually, firstly their meltdown to feck up the title run and then their shit average season and a bit of the subsequent one). Him challenging for a title (and blowing it in the end in one of the funniest fashions ever with the slip and Crystanbul) or Jose failing to mount the title challenge against Guardiola's team with 100 points, one of the best tallies in history? Hmmm...Laughable to compare our wages with that with what liverpool players were on for a start. For all the Rodgers hate your giving right now, he still had liverpool playing some brilliant football, actually managed a title challenge ( not like Jose's 2nd place, which he admitted was unprecedented with this squad). We had weekly tabloid leeks from people within the squad, players literally walking around the pitch ffs.
Also, can we point out that I don't think anyone here is lauding Ole as a better manager than Klopp, that would be laughable also. Didn't want to get into this comparing game, but kind of a joke to use Klopp ( in my opinion best manager in the world rn) as a stick the beat Ole with.
We had out chance to get Klopp, we didn't, Liverpool did, thats also thanks to our higher ups. We have Ole, inexperienced at this level, but shown more than any of the previous managers have. We are going through a rebuild currently, with ALOT of youth, time is needed yet people want to jump back on the merry go round like it has done us any good in the past?
Least this manager gets it and I garuntee if Ole ever Leaves, he will be leaving the club in a much healthier state than his predecessors.
I haven't claimed that anybody's lauding Ole to be a better manager either, have I? I'm merely pointing out that Ole has inherited a better squad, because he has, and that if you want to jump into such subjective notions as toxicity levels at the clubs then Liverpool have had their fair share of stink themselves, it's just that we don't pay half the attention to it because it's not our club. What has Ole shown that the previous managers haven't by the way?
Well in this case Martial's, Rashford's and Pogba's quality was clear even when they weren't half as consistent (still sort of applies).
If United were currently 2nd, playing great football, and main problem was conceding silly goals. Far from being Ole out, i’d be “give Ole a contract extension”
Read the OP
These comparisons are genuinely stupid, like comparing apples and oranges.
We should really /thread right there and hope like hell we can revisit it in May if we manage to make 4th.
Thing is, we even had one poster in here claiming some fans would want Ole out even if he like Klopp in his first full season was sat on 2nd currently with 44 points.
It’s nonsense of course but many have decided that Klopp is proof that time helps, when he’s actually pretty much the opposite. Klopp’s effect in his first full season was dramatic and immediate and by 29th December it was as likely he’d win the league than drop out of the top 4.
Will never understand the people who keep banging the drum with the failed Cardiff stint. By that logic Barcelona should never have appointed Luis Enrique when he had underwhelming stints with Roma and Celta.
It's such a pointless debate. When Solskjaer was given the permanent role did any fan ever think he would win champions league or the premier league ? When Klopp was given the permanent role did anyone think he would win any major competitions ? Yes, our most successful manager in the club's history made the statement before Jürgen even started navigating the build of this current Liverpool team.
The difference between Solskjaer and Klopp is defined as the word "calibre" a phenomenon that you can't put down to statistics. "Calibre" the reason you won't see a KIA competitively winning the Grand Prix (without a technical aqusition of a mergers), "Calibre" the reason every short left footed footballer isn't Messi, "Calibre" the reason some can become millionaires out of depravity and some win the lottery and be in financial trouble the very next year.
When we are talking about Klopp and Solskjaer we are talking about two completely different paradigms of successes. If you live in a world where the two are remotely similar then you are in need of questioning your own understanding.
The difference between Solskjaer and Klopp is defined as the word "calibre" a phenomenon that you can't put down to statistics. "Calibre" the reason you won't see a KIA competitively winning the Grand Prix (without a technical aqusition of a mergers), "Calibre" the reason every short left footed footballer isn't Messi, "Calibre" the reason some can become millionaires out of depravity and some win the lottery and be in financial trouble the very next year.
When we are talking about Klopp and Solskjaer we are talking about two completely different paradigms of successes. If you live in a world where the two are remotely similar then you are in need of questioning your own understanding.
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You should be hired to pick our next manager...why will Ole never be as good as Klopp?
Coutinho wasn’t bang average when Klopp took over
Klopp built a winning side, Ole resigned Mata.
Yes he was.
No way he was amazing even during Brenton's reign - scored some absolute worldies aswell
A walking definition of inconsistency with flashes of some great goals, sure. A bit like Nani in that regard but far worse. The last 1.5 seasons iirc is when he trully kicked off.
Ole is a shite manager and never will be a good one, Klopp is a good manager and will get better. To compare the two is embarrassing and disrespectful to Klopp because they are not in the same league
Klopp is the real deal Ole is a joke.
Klopp is the real deal Ole is a joke.
This goes to United fans.
I genuinely believe that "Klopp is at his own league" thing just happened after he won CL.
Undisputed, cannot talk shyte about him.
Yeah before that the club still was on 30 years drought, and people were laughing at them for bottling titles after titles (Leicester season) and last season.
Don't act like you lot knows shyte that Klopp is going to be the best in the world. It was Pep, now suddenly it's Klopp.
I genuinely believe that "Klopp is at his own league" thing just happened after he won CL.
Undisputed, cannot talk shyte about him.
Yeah before that the club still was on 30 years drought, and people were laughing at them for bottling titles after titles (Leicester season) and last season.
Don't act like you lot knows shyte that Klopp is going to be the best in the world. It was Pep, now suddenly it's Klopp.
RAWK is licking its lips ladz..........the cafe manifesting itself
I've no idea why this comparison keeps being made.
Not even the people making do
Damn Woodward and his Disneyland pitch
It's silly comparing Ole to Klopp. Klopp is a once in a generation manager.
Ole is learning on the job, has the potential to be a very solid manager. And with a little patience could possibly become an important long term manager for Man Utd.
Ole is learning on the job, has the potential to be a very solid manager. And with a little patience could possibly become an important long term manager for Man Utd.