Excellent logic there. I'm convinced.
Jordan Henderson: overrated/underrated?
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He's functional and hardworking, an he ensures others around him work hard too. But he has absolutely no outstanding abilities as a footballer.
He's in the best form of his career at the moment whilst Liverpool have been unstoppable, him and Wijnaldum have been their ever presents in the middle of the park. Fabinho has been missing and they've actually got even better defensively in his absence and haven't slowed down. Henderson also brings more intangible qualities like leadership (as testified by his teammates) and tactical discipline. Fans may prefer Fabinho because he's got a sexy name and heritage but that doesn't mean a whole lot.
I think he'd get into quite a lot of top sides right now. We aren't exactly blessed with world class players in that position currently. There are plenty of top talents coming through such as Tonali and De Jong but it's definitely a transitional phase in the CM role where the top elite are gradually phasing out and the new talents are emerging.
k squared
I rate Liverpool's midfield as an indispensable unit in Liverpool's success. I also don't think he's a clogger. Top class? I've given you 2 k's.
Fabinho is simply better. Henderson is a good player but he isn’t any more disciplined than Fabinho in fact probably the opposite.
I do agree with your comments about having a sexy name though, players of yesteryear get romanticised a lot, but not every top midfielder of the last 15 years was a technical diminutive marvel like Scholes Xavi or Morris we’re, even players that get praised here, had other qualities that made them stood out and become top players.
For example even though much better players, the likes of Keane Robson Davids etc didn’t make it on their abilities to split defences open, dribble through crowded midfields or because of their incredible technical qualities, things like tactical discipline, desire and understanding of the game took them to the top, while more technical players never made the mark they did on the game, with Henderson everyone likes to pretend that those other qualities are not as important sometimes and he gets unfairly pigeon holed as a player with a lack of talent...
Massively underrated by many because he might not excel outside of Liverpool, but thats a moot point. Similar to the very best water carriers like Davids, Essien, Fletcher, Park, Makalele, Kante.
He is outstanding player in the system he is asked to play in, where he concistently delivers everything that is asked of him. Lets put it another way, am not sire what other players could perform the role he does for Liverpool. Given that his team is currently the best team in the world, that makes him world class in my book.
He is outstanding player in the system he is asked to play in, where he concistently delivers everything that is asked of him. Lets put it another way, am not sire what other players could perform the role he does for Liverpool. Given that his team is currently the best team in the world, that makes him world class in my book.
Massively massively massively under-rated. And he's still just half decent!
Good at closing passing channels behind Liverpools press. He's found his niche in a good system.
Long may such inaccurate assessments be held by rivals - the best thing to be in life is to be underestimated.
Runs like he's shat himself.
I think he'd improve city's midfield. Over the past 13 months, he's been he's better than rodri or gundogan.
Pretty much this. Put on an England shirt and he's back to his old self.
City's best midfield is B. Silva - Fernandinho - KDB. Tell me he walks into that with a straight face.
Not sure if joke or not...
I'd say he'd walk into them with a painful look on his face.
Klopp rates him and that's enough. He is a regular starter for his team.
Fair enough
Look I've long held that Liverpool's midfield is an indispensable unit in the team and does more than "carry water". The only thing you don't get out of it is creativity but with the 2 full backs ye don't need that
Not as good a player as Gerrard, but a better captain imo. This team has a togetherness that never existed during the Stevie G years.
My joke went as well as expected.
I've often been one of his biggest critics but I think he's been excellent this season. I wouldn't say that he's good enough for City's midfield but I think Guardiola would like to have a player like him available. Wijnaldum is better than Henderson is though imo.
He's fine, Wijnaldum is a proper player.
Fernandinho of a few years ago maybe. But not now, nah.
Few years ago as in last year when City were champions?
Henderson plays as an 8 right (along with Wignaldum)? His competition would be B.Silva/KDB, not the base midfield player.
I never understand the logic of "walk into other top team". He is playing at one of the best team in the world, which just won the CL last season and about to win the EPL this season. Every team plays differently and has different tactic.Few years ago as in last year when City were champions?
Henderson plays as an 8 right (along with Wignaldum)? His competition would be B.Silva/KDB, not the base midfield player.
He's been the deeper midfielder in Fabinho’s absence. Actually gone up a level in that role to boot. Just an all round quality midfielder these days.Few years ago as in last year when City were champions?
Henderson plays as an 8 right (along with Wignaldum)? His competition would be B.Silva/KDB, not the base midfield player.
Judging from some of the comments here, Some of you must have never played competitive team sports and have been a captain. You cannot be a captain of a truly competitive team like Liverpool and not be exceptional yourself. Find me a captain of any past CL winning team that had a weak captain that lasted over 3-4 years like Henderson has. If he could not perform at that high calibre, his coach, his teammates wouldve made it very clear. The fact that you get the likes of VVD, salah, Mane , Firmino etc all toeing the line is because Henderson is that good.
He is not a flashy player so he cannot be compared to KDB as they play a very different game. But Henderson has to be one of the best midfields in the PL for what he does and that is disrupting opponents, link up plays and provide that energy for an entire game
Credit where it’s due. I would take him at Utd if he wasnt a Pool player
He is not a flashy player so he cannot be compared to KDB as they play a very different game. But Henderson has to be one of the best midfields in the PL for what he does and that is disrupting opponents, link up plays and provide that energy for an entire game
Credit where it’s due. I would take him at Utd if he wasnt a Pool player
Overrated by liverpool supporters because he plays for liverpool
Underrated by the rest because he plays for liverpool
Underrated by the rest because he plays for liverpool
Jordan fecking Henderson.
*shakes head in disbelief*
*shakes head in disbelief*
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Lots of divisive opinions here. Henderson is a model professional. He's not the expert you would expect to give you an immediate answer, but he's that hard worker who will vow to get you the correct answer no matter what. He's got a great engine on him and he's one that will give you a 100% till the final whistle.
Would you guys really say no to a guy like this on your team? I know he plays for LFC but if he gave the same effort playing for Ole, would you say he's shit? Or that he's Jordan fecking Henderson like a lot post here?
Would you guys really say no to a guy like this on your team? I know he plays for LFC but if he gave the same effort playing for Ole, would you say he's shit? Or that he's Jordan fecking Henderson like a lot post here?
Then that would be Southgate’s fault for not getting the best out of him.
Whether someone would get in our team or not is a pretty awful way of gauging their quality.
If he comes along with Klopp then would take him without any doubt.
He's a poundland version of Darren Fletcher. I admire his tenacity and leadership but he's being made to look like a much better player than he is, due to the fact that he just suits Klopp's system perfectly. He's 100% interchangable with any player of that type. Aggressive, tenacious, gut busting, all great qualities but not exactly unique. Not even hard to come by. Mark Noble would do a similar job in that setup.
I don't think I posed the question whether he gets into your team or not. I was saying if he was ALREADY in your team putting in the same effort for Ole, would you be having a discussion about his abilities?
He may not be the best technical midfielder in the league, but you can hardly question his commitment.
That'll be currently the most effective system in world football that (interchangeable) Henderson is suiting.
Boy, there's some ill-informed stuff in here. I suspect a lot of people watched Henderson about three years ago and now have an opinion set.
City's style of play requires more creativity and the final ball w.r.t the assists etc. Liverpool's style of play requires midfielders to be more mobile , energetic and be relentless in getting the ball to either the wingbacks or the likes of the front 3 and in pressing to recover the ball quickly.
And there's nothing wrong with that, different courses for horses or vice versa
People are conflating Liverpool having an excellent theamwith Henderson being an excellent midfielder. I never knew disagreeing with that would generate so much angst from United fans but hey ho
It's more "people are conflating Liverpool having an excellent team which accommodate 'average at best' Henderson in the midfield" that I take issue with.
Isn't this just a logical fallacy though? Football fandom and football watching seems to operate through the prism of heralding individual superstars without context or their apparent efficacy within a team set-up. The most notable example of this is Paul Pogba who is unquestionably talented but isn't showcasing his talents and hasn't been for a good while. That doesn't mean he's rubbish it just means that his profile as a talented player far exceeds what we're seeing on the pitch.
The is important because is speaks to how Klopp and Guardiola have built their teams. It's not done across a chart of 'best' to 'worst' and getting into debates about who is the most talented. It's done through coaching...coaching...coaching.
From what I can see, the best three teams in the league this season are the best coached sides. While individual talent is necessary to succeed, it can only succeed within a well-considered plan. A plan that emanates from high-quality coaching.
So getting uppity about people rating Henderson over 'player X' is probably missing the point entirely. The real issue is 'who is coached better?'; 'who knows their role the best?'