Manchester City banned from CL for 2 seasons and fined 30 million euros | CAS - Ban lifted, fined 10 million

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WW Lynchpin
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Its a tough one to call. Honestly I'd expect to see 2 or 3 big earners leave after the CAS decision (more if we get relegated and how far down we get thrown). I think Sterling would be the first to jump to be honest. It very much depends on whether the players were allowed to walk for free for breach of contract too. If they are not I'd suspect Sterling and KDB would bring in well over £200m alone. If they can leave on a free I'd expect a mass exodus and us naturally ending up pretty much back where we were in 2007/2008.
That's highly unlikely though.

From Forbes:

Manchester City is easily a $2 billion club even without the Champions League, so they’re still going to be one of the most valuable soccer teams in the world despite this ban.

They will remain one of the worlds richest clubs even with the estimated £700,000 loss from the ban.
 

OverratedOpinion

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I'd imagine not if they wanted to follow the law. If the club were run within their means they'd probably be a mid to top half team.
It is interesting.

They have won a number of titles in the most popular league in the world and have a lot of famous players etc. They probably can attract large sponsors on the open market now. This is why I think that the punishment is actually woefully inadequate, it is almost like telling someone they can rob a bank and only have to spend two years in prison and get to keep all the money other than a small (relatively) fine. City fans somehow feeling aggrieved astounds me.
 

horsechoker

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It is interesting.

They have won a number of titles in the most popular league in the world and have a lot of famous players etc. They probably can attract large sponsors on the open market now. This is why I think that the punishment is actually woefully inadequate, it is almost like telling someone they can rob a bank and only have to spend two years in prison and get to keep all the money other than a small (relatively) fine. City fans somehow feeling aggrieved astounds me.
Yeah the club has grown regardless of the oil money, if they were brought back within their means they could still be a club who challenges for Europe. Their brand has grown massively and they have some world class facilities. A lot of the plastics would walk away though if they stopped signing big players and playing in Europe so this would curtail them further.
 

OverratedOpinion

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I didn't say that it's the only thing it shows (I've already said that that City's punishment should be more severe), but is one thing that it shows … namely that sugar-daddy money is unreliable and what's here today may be gone tomorrow (in this case as a result of penalties imposed due to cheating), whereas the £1 billion invested by Levy in infrastructure - and funded from our own earned resources - will pay financial dividends for many decades into the future.
Didn't you pay for your stadium with loans?

There are far more examples of clubs running into trouble through debt than through outside investment.
 

AltiUn

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So this just happened:

"SHOCK NEWS AS CITY ARE FOUND GUILTY OF COOKING THE BOOKS AND BANNED FOR TWO YEARS FROM EUROPE"

Glaston: "Well, only goes to show how well spurs have done with their new stadium."
:lol:
 

GlastonSpur

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Didn't you pay for your stadium with loans?

There are far more examples of clubs running into trouble through debt than through outside investment.
In part, yes. But the loans will still be paid back out of our own resources.

What you say may be true, but usually that's because such clubs borrowed to invest in players and wages - e.g. in the hope of quick promotion to the Prem - rather than an investment in money-spinning infrastructure.
 

roonster09

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fecking hell, can't escape Ole, Haaland and Spurs in any thread.
 

Dansk

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Normally there's a trend of clubs having punishments reduced or overturned at the CAS, but I think it could be different for City. For one thing, they've already been punished for the same thing before and shown that they don't care. Secondly, their owner is openly defiant toward UEFA, threatening them with legal action, and doing everything he can to erase any hope of sympathy. When clubs like PSG and Milan got in trouble, they made a show of changing their ways, whether or not they really went legit. City are doing the exact opposite and telling the world that they refuse to comply with FFP. If the CAS shows them leniency on the back of that, FFP is officially dead.
 

EwanI Ted

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That's highly unlikely though.

From Forbes:

Manchester City is easily a $2 billion club even without the Champions League, so they’re still going to be one of the most valuable soccer teams in the world despite this ban.

They will remain one of the worlds richest clubs even with the estimated £700,000 loss from the ban.
Where does the £700k figure come from?
 

MrPooni

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It is interesting.

They have won a number of titles in the most popular league in the world and have a lot of famous players etc. They probably can attract large sponsors on the open market now. This is why I think that the punishment is actually woefully inadequate, it is almost like telling someone they can rob a bank and only have to spend two years in prison and get to keep all the money other than a small (relatively) fine. City fans somehow feeling aggrieved astounds me.
City's reaction isn't astounding at all, it's part of an ongoing PR offensive they've been formulating since the moment they realised their financial feckery was going to leak. All this public pearl clutching is simply a tactic to help distract from the material facts of the case and the central truth that they're not actually the all conquering modern footballing juggernaut they purport to be.

Take all these strongly worded press releases and hollow legal threats they keep putting out there for example, they're pretty absurd on the face of it considering how obvious their guilt is, right? Sure, but the absurdity of said statements doesn't stop Jim White from reading them out every 15 minutes for a week or gutter journalists from publishing them all over their social media feeds with zero critique or analysis. They're effectively weaponising the 24 hour news cycle and wrestling the narrative away the journalists and bodies who exposed them and turning it into some tall tale about their imaginary blood feud with UEFA.
 

MrPooni

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That's highly unlikely though.

From Forbes:

Manchester City is easily a $2 billion club even without the Champions League, so they’re still going to be one of the most valuable soccer teams in the world despite this ban.

They will remain one of the worlds richest clubs even with the estimated £700,000 loss from the ban.
People need to stop citing Forbes man, their website is just largely a content farm full of unfettered blog posts from unpaid contributors and has been for years. A friend of mine contributed a few pieces back in the day and he told me there's literally no editing process for submissions, no quality checks or anything – whatever you write just goes straight up and is occasionally edited for errors after the fact.
 

Rado_N

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That's highly unlikely though.

From Forbes:

Manchester City is easily a $2 billion club even without the Champions League, so they’re still going to be one of the most valuable soccer teams in the world despite this ban.

They will remain one of the worlds richest clubs even with the estimated £700,000 loss from the ban.
Even with Forbes being Forbes I think this is a hugely simplistic view on their position.

This whole thing throws in the bin the City fans story of “we’re a sustainable club now” that they always like to trot out.

In the admittedly unlikely hypothetical scenario where Mansour fecked off and took his enormously inflated Emirates sponsorship deals with him, and all that goes along with that, City would drop like a stone.

The club isn’t worth what it’s currently said to be worth without the financial doping behind the scenes and I’ve no doubt that there’s more going on than we have seen evidence of yet.
 

BananaBoat

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It is quite obvious that we did cook the books. Maybe still are doing, but does it really matter? For you lot it definetely does, you might actually get into CL...

If we get cleared, this wishful thinking thread can go into the muck, as according to the letter of the law we will be innocent. Like OJ is :). Ended up paying a hefty fine after the civil case but still walked free.

Personally I think 2 yrs ban will be overturned and nothing will happen as we will defend by all means.

Even if it won't and even if we end up in League Two, we will come back. Majority of us seen the club wandering through lower leagues, we will manage, won't we?

But now... Endless trunks of oil money guys, endless trunks. We can buy everyone and everything, like you could when Sky streamlined cash towards United in the 90's.

If it comes to an unlikely event of player exodus, you won't even have a sniff of a single one of them, will you? At this moment in time there are at least 4 clubs in Prem much more attractive for top top top players. None of yours will get nto our or dippers squad.

See you in few weeks after CAS suspends the ban until the case will be looked at...
 

Cantonagotmehere

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You're sticking your head in the sand. You insinuated market size was correlated to payroll. I gave you a list.

For example, I was born and raised in Houston. Houston is NOT a baseball city and only increased their payroll after winning. In fact a few years before winning the world series in 2017 we were the worst team in baseball. Guess what our payroll was ranked in 2017? 20th.

In 2016 when the Cubs won? 14th highest payroll.
In 2015 when the Royals own? 16th highest payroll.
In 2014 when SF won? 7th highest payroll.

What's the point of being obstinate about something you know so little about?
Well, it should be said if Houston are not a big market, the only way they won the WS was through cheating. One way to keep up with big boys. Different type of cheating than City but still blatant cheating.
 

NewGlory

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I'm surprised more home opposition fans aren't chanting 'cheats' at every game. I hope it starts. It could be fun watching them collapse.
That can easily entice violence between home and traveling fans. Not a good plan for anything
 

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It is quite obvious that we did cook the books. Maybe still are doing, but does it really matter? For you lot it definetely does, you might actually get into CL...

If we get cleared, this wishful thinking thread can go into the muck, as according to the letter of the law we will be innocent. Like OJ is :). Ended up paying a hefty fine after the civil case but still walked free.

Personally I think 2 yrs ban will be overturned and nothing will happen as we will defend by all means.

Even if it won't and even if we end up in League Two, we will come back. Majority of us seen the club wandering through lower leagues, we will manage, won't we?

But now... Endless trunks of oil money guys, endless trunks. We can buy everyone and everything, like you could when Sky streamlined cash towards United in the 90's.

If it comes to an unlikely event of player exodus, you won't even have a sniff of a single one of them, will you? At this moment in time there are at least 4 clubs in Prem much more attractive for top top top players. None of yours will get nto our or dippers squad.

See you in few weeks after CAS suspends the ban until the case will be looked at...
Promote this guy.

You can never have enough bitter City fans to play with.
 

NewGlory

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It is quite obvious that we did cook the books. Maybe still are doing, but does it really matter? For you lot it definetely does, you might actually get into CL...

If we get cleared, this wishful thinking thread can go into the muck, as according to the letter of the law we will be innocent. Like OJ is :). Ended up paying a hefty fine after the civil case but still walked free.

Personally I think 2 yrs ban will be overturned and nothing will happen as we will defend by all means.

Even if it won't and even if we end up in League Two, we will come back. Majority of us seen the club wandering through lower leagues, we will manage, won't we?

But now... Endless trunks of oil money guys, endless trunks. We can buy everyone and everything, like you could when Sky streamlined cash towards United in the 90's.

If it comes to an unlikely event of player exodus, you won't even have a sniff of a single one of them, will you? At this moment in time there are at least 4 clubs in Prem much more attractive for top top top players. None of yours will get nto our or dippers squad.

See you in few weeks after CAS suspends the ban until the case will be looked at...
This is some delusional shit.

This whole thing is exactly about stopping the oil-money clubs like yours from just buying their way into everything, only because they have truck-loads of money. You seem to be missing that point.

And if mass exodus does start, not only we will be able to get many of your players, their agents will be begging us because: who else do you think can afford their salaries? Sheffield
United?
 
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In part, yes. But the loans will still be paid back out of our own resources.
Only because they've restructured it.

Reports said original loans due to be repaid by 2022 which they had no chance of doing from trading income/surplus.

Now restructured (common) and have a shedload of bonds (over 15-30 years), bit like we did. Low rates but still £20m-£30m of capital per year alone (never mind the interest).

Has to impact on players/contracts.... which Levy confirmed last year.
 

Drawfull

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It is quite obvious that we did cook the books. Maybe still are doing, but does it really matter? For you lot it definetely does, you might actually get into CL...

If we get cleared, this wishful thinking thread can go into the muck, as according to the letter of the law we will be innocent. Like OJ is :). Ended up paying a hefty fine after the civil case but still walked free.

Personally I think 2 yrs ban will be overturned and nothing will happen as we will defend by all means.

Even if it won't and even if we end up in League Two, we will come back. Majority of us seen the club wandering through lower leagues, we will manage, won't we?

But now... Endless trunks of oil money guys, endless trunks. We can buy everyone and everything, like you could when Sky streamlined cash towards United in the 90's.

If it comes to an unlikely event of player exodus, you won't even have a sniff of a single one of them, will you? At this moment in time there are at least 4 clubs in Prem much more attractive for top top top players. None of yours will get nto our or dippers squad.

See you in few weeks after CAS suspends the ban until the case will be looked at...
Bless.
 

VeevaVee

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It is quite obvious that we did cook the books. Maybe still are doing, but does it really matter? For you lot it definetely does, you might actually get into CL...

If we get cleared, this wishful thinking thread can go into the muck, as according to the letter of the law we will be innocent. Like OJ is :). Ended up paying a hefty fine after the civil case but still walked free.

Personally I think 2 yrs ban will be overturned and nothing will happen as we will defend by all means.

Even if it won't and even if we end up in League Two, we will come back. Majority of us seen the club wandering through lower leagues, we will manage, won't we?

But now... Endless trunks of oil money guys, endless trunks. We can buy everyone and everything, like you could when Sky streamlined cash towards United in the 90's.

If it comes to an unlikely event of player exodus, you won't even have a sniff of a single one of them, will you? At this moment in time there are at least 4 clubs in Prem much more attractive for top top top players. None of yours will get nto our or dippers squad.

See you in few weeks after CAS suspends the ban until the case will be looked at...
:lol: the reaches, the delusions, the ego.

And yes of course it matters, when you're cheating other teams out of doing better and earning more.

Imagine thinking you must visit a United forum to tell everyone this by the way. That's super small time.
 
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It is quite obvious that we did cook the books. Maybe still are doing, but does it really matter? For you lot it definetely does, you might actually get into CL...

If we get cleared, this wishful thinking thread can go into the muck, as according to the letter of the law we will be innocent. Like OJ is :). Ended up paying a hefty fine after the civil case but still walked free.

Personally I think 2 yrs ban will be overturned and nothing will happen as we will defend by all means.

Even if it won't and even if we end up in League Two, we will come back. Majority of us seen the club wandering through lower leagues, we will manage, won't we?

But now... Endless trunks of oil money guys, endless trunks. We can buy everyone and everything, like you could when Sky streamlined cash towards United in the 90's.

If it comes to an unlikely event of player exodus, you won't even have a sniff of a single one of them, will you? At this moment in time there are at least 4 clubs in Prem much more attractive for top top top players. None of yours will get nto our or dippers squad.

See you in few weeks after CAS suspends the ban until the case will be looked at...
Oh. So your lawyers have learned now that they should wait for a punishment until they go to CAS?

It was hilarious when they went BEFORE the punishment ruling and CAS told them to go away and follow process/exhaust the proper avenues first.

Eight of the so called best lawyers in Europe and they didn't know anything OR thought they could bully their way past CAS. Hilarious
 

DCP

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Hopefully the PL use Saracens breaking the salary cap as a precedent and relegate them to the Championship until they have demonstrated they are within FFP for 2 consecutive seasons.

I wish it was Liverpool
 

Random Task

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Even with Forbes being Forbes I think this is a hugely simplistic view on their position.

This whole thing throws in the bin the City fans story of “we’re a sustainable club now” that they always like to trot out.

In the admittedly unlikely hypothetical scenario where Mansour fecked off and took his enormously inflated Emirates sponsorship deals with him, and all that goes along with that, City would drop like a stone.

The club isn’t worth what it’s currently said to be worth without the financial doping behind the scenes and I do not doubt that there’s more going on than we have seen evidence of yet.
I wouldn't be surprised if more damning evidence was brought to light, further cementing their fate.

As for the financial impact this ban will have on City, It's difficult to say for the reasons stated in your post. There's an ongoing discussion on Forbes website debating the issues facing City.
 
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OverratedOpinion

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In part, yes. But the loans will still be paid back out of our own resources.

What you say may be true, but usually that's because such clubs borrowed to invest in players and wages - e.g. in the hope of quick promotion to the Prem - rather than an investment in money-spinning infrastructure.
Yes but the argument seems to be that it is better for the club to borrow money and pay it back out of their own resources rather than simply be given that money. I hate the idea that clubs can just be given billions of pounds and suddenly overtake countless clubs who have worked worked smarter and harder but what has happened at Man City is undoubtedly great for them, same with Chelsea.

To my mind whatever happens now, City will always be a much bigger club than they were before this and even if the owners sell up they will have much better facilities and be able to attract big sponsors on the open market due to winning the most popular league on the planet a number of times. Spurs are only going to be able to repay their loans because they are a big London club, if Man City had suddenly got saddled with half a billion pounds of debt in 2007 they would have a massive problem.

Giving credit to Levy for borrowing loads of money to build a new stadium simply because he can repay it is like giving Woodward credit for getting sponsorships. Some things are just possible due to being big clubs in the most popular league in the most popular sport.
 

OverratedOpinion

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City's reaction isn't astounding at all, it's part of an ongoing PR offensive they've been formulating since the moment they realised their financial feckery was going to leak. All this public pearl clutching is simply a tactic to help distract from the material facts of the case and the central truth that they're not actually the all conquering modern footballing juggernaut they purport to be.

Take all these strongly worded press releases and hollow legal threats they keep putting out there for example, they're pretty absurd on the face of it considering how obvious their guilt is, right? Sure, but the absurdity of said statements doesn't stop Jim White from reading them out every 15 minutes for a week or gutter journalists from publishing them all over their social media feeds with zero critique or analysis. They're effectively weaponising the 24 hour news cycle and wrestling the narrative away the journalists and bodies who exposed them and turning it into some tall tale about their imaginary blood feud with UEFA.
I am not talking about the clubs statements. I mean the fans, the fact that they have this vendetta against Uefa for the audacity of not letting them cheat is mind boggling.
 

ExecutionerWasp001

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It is quite obvious that we did cook the books. Maybe still are doing, but does it really matter? For you lot it definetely does, you might actually get into CL...

If we get cleared, this wishful thinking thread can go into the muck, as according to the letter of the law we will be innocent. Like OJ is :). Ended up paying a hefty fine after the civil case but still walked free.

Personally I think 2 yrs ban will be overturned and nothing will happen as we will defend by all means.

Even if it won't and even if we end up in League Two, we will come back. Majority of us seen the club wandering through lower leagues, we will manage, won't we?

But now... Endless trunks of oil money guys, endless trunks. We can buy everyone and everything, like you could when Sky streamlined cash towards United in the 90's.

If it comes to an unlikely event of player exodus, you won't even have a sniff of a single one of them, will you? At this moment in time there are at least 4 clubs in Prem much more attractive for top top top players. None of yours will get nto our or dippers squad.
Triggered :)

Whatever happens with CAS this is the end of your dreams of domination. If you do escape punishment it will be by the skin of your teeth. It would be extremely foolish on your owners part to continue the financial doping program. This in effect cuts your business model off at the knees. The days of £100 Mill + transfer windows & £50 Mill bench warmers will become a distant memory. You also won't be able to attract the same quality of players that you've had as you won't be able to pay big club salaries & the off the books payments will be a total non-starter.

You won't be dropping down the leagues like you did in those heady days. The financial doping you got away with will enable you to stay a mid-table PL club, even without the financial backing of your owner. There is already mass dissatisfaction within your ranks though that you have not been allowed to buy the CL. It's going to be impossible for many of your fans to cope with being brought down a few pegs.
 

MackRobinson

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which is precisely why most fans of the sort of teams you mentioned were and still are against FFP!
That's irrelevant. I am talking about what happens when clubs without the same following funded solely by an owner. There are very serious risks.

The point of sport isn't to undo tradition. Manchester United are where they are for a reason. To complain that they have an unfair advantage because of their global brand is ridiculous.
 

MackRobinson

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Well, it should be said if Houston are not a big market, the only way they won the WS was through cheating. One way to keep up with big boys. Different type of cheating than City but still blatant cheating.
Yes they cheated, but they were already a good team and used their farm system and savvy trades to build a great team. City used cheating to build their team. The Astros used cheating to make an already great team even better.

Regardless, it's irrelevant in the context of the data I provided.
 

GlastonSpur

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Only because they've restructured it.

Reports said original loans due to be repaid by 2022 which they had no chance of doing from trading income/surplus.

Now restructured (common) and have a shedload of bonds (over 15-30 years), bit like we did. Low rates but still £20m-£30m of capital per year alone (never mind the interest).

Has to impact on players/contracts.... which Levy confirmed last year.
Who else but Spurs did you otherwise think was going to repay the loans?

Given our booming income, and the very low interest rates involved, Spurs are in a financially very cushy situation
 

GazTheLegend

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It's actually a ridiculous decision.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36706262

If UEFA were so against all this state ownership stuff, why did they allow Silvio Berlusconi to own AC Milan, or allow the principality of Monaco to run a tax haven for players, and that sort of thing?

Like - it's NOW they choose to step in? Nobody will ever convince me that all of this isn't because the City fans boo the UEFA anthem, which I can 100% get behind. feck FIFA, feck UEFA, hypricitical shits and rotten from the core upwards and always have been. Never sat well with me that they literally admitted they fixed draws and nobody ever denied it and they just laughed at it happening in the 2000's. Ferguson called it and he was right.

Now I realise it sounds sort of weird as a Manchester United fan and Manc, but I actually quite like the Stockport bluenoses despite everything else, their fans are alright. Thing is, until they stop targeting City and instead try to actually be fair and punish PSG as well as all the rest of them (Juventus are 100% about some dodginess, they're running at some stupid 80% of gross revenue level right now, there's something behind that), then it looks like victimisation to me.
 

Relevated

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Why are people saying they could be sent to league two? I doubt anyone would let that happen.
 

rollingstoned1

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That's irrelevant. I am talking about what happens when clubs without the same following funded solely by an owner. There are very serious risks.

The point of sport isn't to undo tradition. Manchester United are where they are for a reason. To complain that they have an unfair advantage because of their global brand is ridiculous.
clubs who are not funded by an owner and spend money trying to outgrow their current glass ceiling are at much greater risk and end up going under anyways without most likely tasting any success rather than getting an owner in who will spend money and help them achieve goals they would otherwise have never achieved idealism aside and then maybe, possibly going under. the only guarantee if the owner doesn't come in and they want to not rock the boat is just plod along in mediocrity and never have a realistic chance of challenging the existing calcified hierarchy. basically footballing groundhog day. United and other clubs benefited as much from chance when the game got commercialised to be saying they deserve to have their positions put in lock while taking away most other clubs only other realistic chance of achieving success. it is a curious double standard steeped in selfishness and hypocrisy to sit on your high horse now and claim that it isn't okay for anyone to want to be taken over while that lottery which some clubs won 28 years ago is what lets you say that in the first place. I understand why you would do so but to not even be able to see where the other point of view comes from is just denial imo.
 

padzilla

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If the PL strip them of league titles and award them to runners up would we be on 22 titles then?