New Offside Rule Proposed

Really naive idea. Same debates will arise but about players a couple of feet closer to goal. And more importantly it’ll be harder for assistant referees to judge. VAR can pick up the slack at the elite level, but for the rest of the game that comprises 99.9% of the football played on any given weekend, it’ll be harder for the lino to make the call.

Would have expected better from Wenger to be honest.
 
The millimetres thing is less of a problem because you've given the attacker a massive advantage.

Yes you will still get the millimetres decisions but if one goes against you, you will actually look offside to the naked eye. I'd actually tweak Wenger's proposal to only be if any part of your feet is in line or behind the defender. This stops groin, knee and armpit onside decisions.
 
Gio said:
Really naive idea. Same debates will arise but about players a couple of feet closer to goal. And more importantly it’ll be harder for assistant referees to judge. VAR can pick up the slack at the elite level, but for the rest of the game that comprises 99.9% of the football played on any given weekend, it’ll be harder for the lino to make the call.

Would have expected better from Wenger to be honest.
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I think it'll be an improvement. Yes it'll still be a decision based on milli-meters but if no part of you is in line you can't argue its being pedantic like a toe or a finger. Regarding lower level I don't think offside calls are that correct at at those levels anyways. There's always a significant margin of error there.

This is the only rule change that makes sense. And it makes it consistent with the idea of the ball crossing the goal line as well. If all of the ball has to cross all of the line to be a goal why shouldn't all of the player be offside for it to be offside?
 
So basically back to the 'daylight' principle? Sounds like he's saying you're only offside if the whole body is offside. That's always been my preferred interpretation, not that's it's without its demerits.
 
roonster09 said:
I don't think it makes sense.
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It does. The offside law was intended to prevent goal hanging. Being offside because the heel of thr player who crossed the ball was a millimetre offside in the build up, was never the intention of the law.

I say again, even close decisions will at least look offside to the naked eye
 
This will be like in cricket and how they changed the LBW decisions given via DRS. You just end up going in circles.
 
Just making it even more complicated. Whats so hard to understand. Your either offside or not. Doesn't matter if its by a toenail. It's clear and obvious. Oh but its so unfair. Well its not. What we gonna do give a goal when the ball hasnt crossed over all the line but its mostly there. Oh poor attacker. He lost his goalsie by a few millimeters. Yeah. Tough sht. .
 
GaryLifo said:
It does. The offside law was intended to prevent goal hanging. Being offside because the heel of thr player who crossed the ball was a millimetre offside in the build up, was never the intention of the law.

I say again, even close decisions will at least look offside to the naked eye
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"That will sort it out and you will no longer have decisions about millimetres and a fraction of the attacker being in front of the defensive line."

Rule change won't eliminate millimeters offside.
 
Moving the line won’t change that a line still needs to be measured down to the mm. Frankly astonishing someone supposed to be smart like Wenger can lack such basic understanding of how offside works.
 
UpWithRivers said:
Just making it even more complicated. Whats so hard to understand. Your either offside or not. Doesn't matter if its by a toenail. It's clear and obvious. Oh but its so unfair. Well its not. What we gonna do give a goal when the ball hasnt crossed over all the line but its mostly there. Oh poor attacker. He lost his goalsie by a few millimeters. Yeah. Tough sht. .
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Spot on post is this.
 
roonster09 said:
"That will sort it out and you will no longer have decisions about millimetres and a fraction of the attacker being in front of the defensive line."

Rule change won't eliminate millimeters offside.
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Unless the entire concept of a millimetre is scrapped, they’re never going to remove the issue of millimetres in the decisions, they just change the point at which it’s measured. You’re still going to have decisions made that will be criticised because the margin was millimetres.

It’s a daft as that Tory education minister plank who said that he wants every student in the nation to achieve above the national average in their maths GCSEs.
 
I would rather they just use feet. There's no advantage of your armpit being in an offside position.
 
Pexbo said:
Unless the entire concept of a millimetre is scrapped, they’re never going to remove the issue of millimetres in the decisions, they just change the point at which it’s measured. You’re still going to have decisions made that will be criticised because the margin was millimetres.

It’s a daft as that Tory education minister plank who said that he wants every student in the nation to achieve above the national average in their maths GCSEs.
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I just don't see any good from this change except giving more advantage to attacker.
 
Actually, to try and be fair to Fawlty.
If you think about what is going to be flagged and not flagged in this system, it can then be checked by VAR if a goal is scored. It becomes a game of lots of non flagging but that doesn't matter. Only very clear offsides are decided at the first stage.

Down on the park, I don't know.
 
Gio said:
Really naive idea. Same debates will arise but about players a couple of feet closer to goal. And more importantly it’ll be harder for assistant referees to judge. VAR can pick up the slack at the elite level, but for the rest of the game that comprises 99.9% of the football played on any given weekend, it’ll be harder for the lino to make the call.

Would have expected better from Wenger to be honest.
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Yeah was thinking it would make their job extremely difficult in the first place before VAR get involved. Think it will lead to a lot of attackers trying to steal a march and leaving trailing legs level with defenders, not sure what to make of that.

Pexbo said:
Unless the entire concept of a millimetre is scrapped, they’re never going to remove the issue of millimetres in the decisions, they just change the point at which it’s measured. You’re still going to have decisions made that will be criticised because the margin was millimetres.

It’s a daft as that Tory education minister plank who said that he wants every student in the nation to achieve above the national average in their maths GCSEs.
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Exactly that, the only difference. Think they reckoned 20 goals have been denied in the Premier league this season for marginal offside calls. With this rule those goals would have stood
 
Rubbish idea - and goes far to far the other way and puts too much advantage with the attacker.

The offisde rule is fine, its the way VAR is trying to implement it thats crap.

All that has to be done is as soon as that line is put by the defender, if you can't tell within 5 seconds whether it's offside or not, then it's not offside. None of this dotted lines coming down from arm pits bollocks. The Giroud one was a perfect example, as soon as the line was put Maguire's foot you could easily tell it was offside. That should be the barometer we're dealing with

And any goal that looks tight, the linesman should put his flag up after the ball is in the net, so the fans in the stadium know it might be ruled out.
 
Dont know why they dont just line up the body of the footballer, you know? Body to body. You should never be offside because half a foot ahead of him or you're arm.
 
Rish Sawhney said:
I think it'll be an improvement. Yes it'll still be a decision based on milli-meters but if no part of you is in line you can't argue its being pedantic like a toe or a finger. Regarding lower level I don't think offside calls are that correct at at those levels anyways. There's always a significant margin of error there.

This is the only rule change that makes sense. And it makes it consistent with the idea of the ball crossing the goal line as well. If all of the ball has to cross all of the line to be a goal why shouldn't all of the player be offside for it to be offside?
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It’ll be the same arguments in reverse. We will still be debating about toes because clever strikers will leave trailing legs to maximise their advantage. It’s a rule change designed because of VAR as opposed to what the rule was designed for in the first place. Tackling a symptom and not a cause for something that only affects less than 1% of the sport.
 
Absolute madness to even entertain changing the offside rule for this.

It just changes the argument from "is he offside by 1mm" to "is his foot inline by 1mm".

Just find a way to speed up the current process and people will stop complaining.
 
Regardless of where the line is drawn, the linesmen should only punish clearcut offsides. Attackers must be considered innocent until proven "guilty". Agree?

The only real benefit to this proposed rule change? In the arms race between defence and attack it gives a slight advantage to the attacker, allowing for more goals. That's not too bad in a sport where you quite often have scorelines of 1-1 or 0-0.
 
cyberman said:
Why do we suddenly hate defenders?
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We love defenders dearly and recognise their need for opportunities to develop and be prosperous at work. Hence we decided we want to provide them with greater challenges.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Rubbish idea - and goes far to far the other way and puts too much advantage with the attacker.

The offisde rule is fine, its the way VAR is trying to implement it thats crap.

All that has to be done is as soon as that line is put by the defender, if you can't tell within 5 seconds whether it's offside or not, then it's not offside. None of this dotted lines coming down from arm pits bollocks. The Giroud one was a perfect example, as soon as the line was put Maguire's foot you could easily tell it was offside. That should be the barometer we're dealing with

And any goal that looks tight, the linesman should put his flag up after the ball is in the net, so the fans in the stadium know it might be ruled out.
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Agreed. In cricket and rugby, which have had video assistance for a while, there are still controversies and debates to be had regarding decisions. We're talking about live action filmed by fallible digital tech, the images from which are interpreted against a rulebook by human beings. VAR is still too blunt an instrument to get every decision right, so aim lower in fixing the obvious howlers the on-field officials make (as we were promised before we started measuring toenails) and leave the marginal calls pissing off one half of the fans and delighting the rest. As for Wenger he's not solved anything, just moved the point of contention a yard or so closer to the net.

The hilarious thing is that when VAR's introduction was being debated one of the arguments against it was that by eradicating all controversy and debate from the game you'd ruin it for the 'bloke down the pub' as there'd be nothing to discuss after a match. That turned out to be rather a forlorn worry didn't it?
 
Gio said:
It’ll be the same arguments in reverse. We will still be debating about toes because clever strikers will leave trailing legs to maximise their advantage. It’s a rule change designed because of VAR as opposed to what the rule was designed for in the first place. Tackling a symptom and not a cause for something that only affects less than 1% of the sport.
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It changes the dynamic of who is pushing the line this trailing leg thing, which is more a half body overlap isn't it?

I don't think it's quite as stupid as it initially seems. But may well be fraught with extreme difficulty of working with in ongoing play. When do they ever put the flag up?
 
I'd go as far as saying VAR shouldn't be used for offsides at all.

Yeah sometimes there will be an obvious one missed by the linesman and everyone will be up in arms but linesmen were coping well for years without it.

I just want to be able to celebrate a goal fully again. I don't really give a shit if sometimes somebody is a milimetre offside
 
VAR should not be used for offsides, ever. The purpose of the offside rule is to prevent a fundamental change in the way the game would otherwise be played, with players goal-hanging.

I'd leave it to the linesman. If the call is too close for a professional linesman to correctly make then it's not clearly offside. Of course there will be occasional mistakes with linemen missing the odd obvious incident, but to me that is preferable to any implementation of VAR for offsides.

*EDIT: Didn't see @17Larsson had basically written the same thing minutes before. Oh well, I guess he's also absolutely correct on this topic.
 
roonster09 said:
"That will sort it out and you will no longer have decisions about millimetres and a fraction of the attacker being in front of the defensive line."

Rule change won't eliminate millimeters offside.
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In theory there will be far fewer such decisions though. I don’t know how successful this would be, but I’m curious to see it in action. I think it would make attacking crazy, you’d have forwards pushing for huge advantages. Don’t know if it’ll work but it could be wild.
 
UpWithRivers said:
Just making it even more complicated. Whats so hard to understand. Your either offside or not. Doesn't matter if its by a toenail. It's clear and obvious. Oh but its so unfair. Well its not. What we gonna do give a goal when the ball hasnt crossed over all the line but its mostly there. Oh poor attacker. He lost his goalsie by a few millimeters. Yeah. Tough sht. .
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Spot on.
 
I don't see why they can't just simplify it and measure offsides from the players' feet only. That way, there's no guesswork involved judging where shoulders end and arms begin, and rubbish like that. It's easy to draw straight lines along where the attacker and defender's feet are for VAR purposes. The technology also exists for sensors in the players' boots (combined with an accelerometer in the ball to judge when it was played forward) so that eventually, offsides could be ruled pretty much instantaneously.
 
I don't know

So really taller attackers with a bigger stride can get how many yards reach advantage over the defender?
 
Actually implementing a rule correctly with technology so we decide to change the rule because people don't like the actual rules? Feck off and leave it alone.
 
Peter Crouch retired too soon. He could have one foot inside the box and the other 10 yards away and not be offside.
 
Am i misunderstanding or would the main benefit of this rule change not to be to make decisions easier for assistant referees, who have already had their authority reduced, but leave things exactly the same for VAR, which will review all of the tricky decisions anyway, with the squiggly lines etc? ‘Daylight’ isn’t something you can easily measure by means of VAR. It seems like this rule, in terms of reffing the game, would have been better suited to being introduced when there was no technology.
 
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