Has one single person ever claimed that Ole's made no mistakes? Has anyone even claimed that for any manager in history? Some people are still just desperate to punish him for those mistakes, while others are happy that we are learning from them and moving forward.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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You clearly didn't spend a season watching the LVG team.
This.
I did, we were a bore. A terrible bore. He deserved the sack. I don't think we were any worse to watch under LvG than under, I'd say, around 60-70% of games under Ole this season, though, and we also had some really good performances under him. He also had a very similar record to Ole in the top six and generally got us more points in his two seasons here. He got us CL football and then he got us an FA Cup. If Ole can get 4th and a Europa/FA cup this season then you could argue he's probably done as well as LvG and better than Moyes, but not as good as Jose.
Has anyone actually claimed this?
5th and still in all major cups is not really bad. That's desperation. He is one place off his target and has the team in a good vein of form and clearly progressing. Your posts seem to want United to fail, it's just weird.
This is a different time to when Moyes was in charge. The chairman is the same, but the plan is different, and the mood around the club is not the same. I think CL qualification is a bonus, and something the club needs, but for Ole its not the only objective.
Nothing to do with the virus spreading round the world that means maybe people can't fly in to Manchester?
Steady on, we don't need any more reasons for wanting Ole out!
Word for word no-one's obviously said that, but that is definitely the impression that's given. You can't just ignore the league position or as I pointed out, why choose to get AWB over Fernandes, who was available, in the summer? Or get a loan striker like Ighalo now in January after Lukaku was sold in the summer. It's not about punishing, but it is stuff that you need to factor in when evaluating his term as a manager.
We all want him to to win football matches for christ's sake!
That's happened before. We have a tough few games coming up, I'd say let's revisit that statement after them.
I don't want him to fail at all. If he gets top four and a cup he'll deserve another season, no doubt. I am simply worried that we will miss out on better managers again because of what is nothing more than a vanity project by the club.
If he turns out to be a better manager than I think he is, and he does challenge like some here seem to think he will, great! I love watching us play like we did last night and against Chelsea, I would love to see more of it under him. I take offense to you trying to tell me I want Utd to fail when all I want is for us to entertain again, and I'm not convinced Ole is the man to make that happen, but I would love as much as anyone if he did, that doesn't mean I'm prepared to cross my fingers and hope he does, though, based on nothing. That's silly.
I would say, with an inherited squad with major problems (many attitude-based), Ole has us playing at least with the spirit of Fergie's teams, if not the quality as yet. On the other hand, LVG came in when Utd players still believed. His teams were simply boring because he sets his teams up that way. Some of Ole's results and performances have been crap yes – and you can argue some of it is his fault – but it's not because of how he wants to play. That's the difference for me.
Who is saying that though?
This is why people are saying that there are agendas on here. When we lose its a results business, but when stats like that one are presented its not results, its performances. Recent form has been very good, and there is a lot to be optimistic about, but instead of being optimistic people say 'well lets see how we go in the next few games'. It certainly does feel that certain people have pinned their flag so firmly to the Ole out argument that they want him to fail.
You can't just make stuff up.
Yes I wouldn't disagree with any of that. We look like a squad united (no pun intended) instead of divided for once, no doubt. I just don't think he has any of the other attributes needed in a great manager to properly succeed here, sadly.
You're making out last it's the film outbreak... hahah!
No, nothing to do with that. Tickets to a game like City will be bought by UK touts instantly, but the interest just isn't there at this moment.
I've been a staunch Ole in guy since he was appointed almost to the point of tiresome. But just like the some of the Ole out crowd would be genuinely happy that we lose games since that means a glimmer of hope that they can see Pochettino at the helm, I too will take some glee from the fact that we're winning games, and have become the stingiest defense in Europe over the past 20 games. I will however refrain from gloating on the forums, Im quite happy with winning games and seeing our youngsters thrive as they continue to take strides this season. Everyone knew this was going to be a bumpy ride, where we are is completely as expected going into the season. The absence of key players for various long stretches have an obvious impact.
Considering that the club tried (and failed) to add to both our attack and midfied before the season, you can't actually accuse the manager of willingly going into the season with Lingard and Pereira. Lukaku went to Ole and said he wanted out. The managers position is that he does not want anyone around that doesn't want to be here, so he was let go. Removing a disruptive presence from the player group is just smart. Contrary to popular belief, by all accounts Pogba himself has not been disruptive at all, so there goes that argument.
Pereira being left out of the squad entirely is a relatively clear indication that the almost comical level of chances given has come to an abrupt end. I've seen a lot of people being upset that the manager does not call out publicly.. but that is entirely in tune with his old manager, Sir Alex Ferguson, who always took his grievances behind closed doors. There is never any reason to give the press reason to write negative pieces about the club outside of footballing results.
With regard to yesterdays game. Yes we did indeed play v10 men for most of the game, but in all fairness the period leading up to the penalty was exactly the same, a 1 way steamrolling train. The only time Brugge came close was after a massive mistake by Romero. That's his second in consective games now. A little bit concerning considering how solid he has been leading up to this. An absolutely fantastic backup goaltender.
This entire season has been a rollercoaster with injuries on Pogba early on that destabilized our midfield and we had to rely on lower-tier squadmembers stepping up. Fred was struggling as he had been all his tenure here for a long time. Lingard has been this team worst player this season, just completely unforgivable form.
I'd appreciate if both the Ole in and Ole out crowd can appreciate that this team performs better with the right players available. Yes injuries happen all the time, but no teams in the EPL has had to deal with the injury problems we have this season. Then we can debate why that is, but it is what it is.
The only thing we know is that we have been through a very solid period. 12 clean sheets in the last 17 games. 1 goals allowed in the last 7. 5 wins 2draws in that time.
Marcus Rashford, Brandon Williams, Aaron-Wan Bissaka, Axel Tuanzebe, Mason Greenwood are all well on pace to take great strides in their development. Scott McTominay has established himself. Fred the past 20 games has been nothing hort of outstanding.
We've missed the locksmith in midfield all season with Pogba gone, and Bruno Fernandes is it. Even though we are without our by far biggest scoring threat, probably for rest of the season, there's a lof going on in this team that gives you reason to be very optimistic about the season that follows the current one.
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The plan is different but you're making the mistake of thinking it's Ole-specific @Bilbo, it aint. The club put this plan in place in 2018 when Mourinho was still in charge (hence why he lost his shit) and it can quite easily be continued by another manager who buys into that philosophy.
If we end up 8th in the league & win no cups, Ole will be gone and someone like Poch will be brought in to carry on this work (and sell tickets/drum up interest/optimism), I will absolutely delete my account if Ole is 8th and we keep him, never ever going to happen. It will simply cost the club too much money and our targets will be much more difficult, plus, it'd probably add another 20% onto their demands.
Its not selective. You asked what he has shown to illustrate that he can compete at that level. I just showed you why we should have some belief that he can.
Just a month after the 2-0 home defeat to Burnley, anyone who still has doubts about the manager and the team “wants the team to fail”.
All fans want success but I’m not buying this recent run as evidence that we’re on the right track. We’ve been down this road before and it has not ended well.
Everton away, City at home, Derby away and Spurs away next four games. We’ll have a better idea after those. For the moment, I still want a change of manager and wholesale changes to the team in the summer. I sincerely hope to be proven wrong.
All fans want success but I’m not buying this recent run as evidence that we’re on the right track. We’ve been down this road before and it has not ended well.
Everton away, City at home, Derby away and Spurs away next four games. We’ll have a better idea after those. For the moment, I still want a change of manager and wholesale changes to the team in the summer. I sincerely hope to be proven wrong.
The available tickets on that link are £200 a seat. In the fecking gods too. That's not affordable for your average fan.
Yes it is. You are nitpicking at a certain portion of our results. What matters are the overall results.
I've seen this on here before and it's stupid. The "Ole out crowd" make up around 50% of this forum, at a bare minimum, and to suggest that all those want us to lose games in order to get rid of a club legend is crazy. Maybe a select few who are desperate to prove he deserves the sack do but the vast majority, me included, absolute love results like last night and Chelsea.
Can you not be a bit optimistic, while still waiting to see how the next few games go given the nature of Ole's reign so far? Just seems sensible to me. I'm feeling pretty optimistic after the performance last night, said so repeatedly. One swallow does not a summer make etc
I feel a little sad for those who can't/won't see the progress we're making under Ole. This team looks so positive, win or lose. There's a whole other feel to this team compared to last year, or four years ago. Five signings now, all look positive. One promoted youth in Williams, looks positive. de Gea/Shaw/Fred looks improved, add Matic to those three as well. McTominay/Greenwood/Rashford all developing fn great. I'm somewhat undecided on Martial and Lindelof. Still have hope for Bailly if can stay away from injury. 2-3+ signings in the summer and I have no doubt we'll be up there next season. Maybe not fighting 1st, but top 3/4 no problem.
Read the original post ffs @Fletchageddon . As I wrote:
General tickets we're available for 2 days for as cheap as 35 quid a ticket in scoreboard paddock, pitch side. Tonnes of seats all over the ground between 35 - 55 quid were available.
Even now, there are hospitality tickets available at a knock down price. They are usually quite a bit more expensive for matchday VIP* for a category A match. These tickets generally sell out before the season and never come back on sale.
*£450pp inc. VAT is usually the cheapest matchday VIP price for City at home.
You can't just use league position as a barometer of how well we're doing, without context. Over the first 11 games of the season, we were 9th in the league. We started the season very slowly. Nobody will debate that. We are however, 3rd in the table for matches from game 12 onwards. If we had started well, then gradually gotten worse, it would be reason for concern. Gradually getting better over the season is reason for optimism. Why focus more on possible mistakes that were made last summer rather than on the positive steps we've taken to move on from them since then?
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Have you never heard about different kinds of intelligence?
- Linguistic intelligence: People high in linguistic intelligence have an affinity for words, both spoken and written.
- Logical-mathematical intelligence: It implies logical and mathematical abilities.
- Spatial intelligence: The ability to form a mental model of a spatial world and to be able to maneuver and operate using that model.
- Musical intelligence: Those with musical intelligence have excellent pitch, and may even be absolute pitch.
- Bodily-kinesthetic intelligence: The ability to solve problems or to fashion products using one's whole body, or parts of the body. Gifted people in this intelligence may be good dancers, athletes, surgeons, craftspeople, and others.
- Interpersonal intelligence: The ability to see things from the perspective of others, or to understand people in the sense of empathy. Strong interpersonal intelligence would be an asset in those who are teachers, politicians, clinicians, religious leaders, etc.
- Intrapersonal intelligence: It is a capacity to form an accurate, veridical model of oneself and to be able to use that model to operate effectively in life.
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Agreed, but people probably take offence when you call them deluded or silly too. Especially considering we are called supporters not detractors, but you keep being you.
We’ve been good recently but have had a lot of things falling out way. Great luck against Chelsea and the Brugge defender with the wonderful save last night. The opening 20 minutes last night were end to end with Brugge getting through our defence a few times with ease.
Factual discussing is inappropriate? I'm actually not sure what to say to that, except.. I'm sorry...?
It's easy to be arguing in hindsight when you sit with the results in hand. I don't know why the club did not sign Fernandes, but we did come from a extremely promising pre-season where everyone performed above and beyond expectations, the consideration may very wel have been that these players are sufficient. It may have been that Fernandes' tendency to take big gambles was considered counter-productive. it can very well be that Sportings asking price was too high. It was reported higher this summer than in January.
I made a few comments early on that I did not think Fernandes was the right signing for us. I'm quite happy to admit that knowing what we do now, I was entirely wrong.
Ashley Young was a disaster on right back. AWB has been a revelation. Yes he was an absolute priority.
ighalo has come on as a loan striker because Marcus Rashford is long term injured and we are in a unexpected need of a body that remotely fits the teams mold, and know where the goal is. Other clubs like Barcelona and Tottenham are in the same predicament. Tottenham did not secure a striker on loan. Same with Barca who needed special treatment to sign a player outside the transfer winow.
In what regard is my tone high and mighty? "The team is doing well" is something that gets under your skin? Seriously. I want to know what about these statistical data is somehow supposed to be inappropriate of all things?
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Do you think Woodwood sacking one of our legends who the fans are cheering will bring back the fans? The crowd turned on the board and owners a few months ago when things were not looking as good. Most of us knew this was going to be a tough season when we kept Pogba and did not get Fernandes and a striker in the summer. This is looking even more obvious with hindsight and the additions now.
Oooooh Tom, you've been a poster I really do appreciate but feck me... the above really is the lowest of the low. I thought only the teens or wums on the forum wrote such absolute nonsense.
Disappointed in you massively @Tom Cato
You're making the mistake of thinking that the plan is solely around recruitment. He hasn't just recruited well. He has improved a lot of players in the squad, and the morale seems far better than it has been since Ferguson. Its a big reach to think that none of this would be impacted by firing the guy in the center of it all, and and even bigger reach to suggest that Pochettino or anyone else would just walk in and pick up where he left off. The fact is, we have little to no reason to think that the club feels otherwise.
Yes.
Because the majority of fans, and hospitality in partitcular, don't give a feck about OGS I'm afraid, the care about winning football matches and watching entertaining football.
If you don't understand this, you're stuck in the 80's Fresh.
I'll buy that, 100%, so no, I'm not making that mistake at all.
But "improving players" "squad morale" will mean feck all if we end the season in 8th as poorly as we started it, that's the point. We have even less reason to believe the club would keep on Ole if he finishes that poorly considering they have fired managers for finishing higher and winning shit.
I apologise. You are of course correct and I've update my statement.
I've read posts on this forum hoping for losing streaks, but not everyone agree with that so i've updated my statement to 'Some'.
Don't forget also that holding out on Bruno meant we got good value in the market, something that has needed putting right since SAF's days.
The board and Ole have sent out the signal that this is a patient rebuild. We are no longer going to be paying for prima donnas; or tolerating those who like throw their toys out of the pram.
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It was obvious to the majority of us very early on that we'd left ourselves with a massively imbalanced squad and that spending 130m on defence and adding only Dan James to the attack/midfield was poor priorities.
As I've said a tonne of times, January was brilliant, it showed that everyone had learnt from those mistakes; even brining in a "old" loanee to help with rotation.
Have you really Tom? I'd love to see some examples and would imagine if there are any, they are wums/newbs
Too much sense in that post!
I think the bolded part in particular is why many is so unsure what is the correct decision, even if Solskjær qualifies us.
So many wanted Pochettino after Mourinho, and now he is free, available, and does his best to hint that he would take the job.
If he was tied up I think alot would be more Ole-in, just because there wasnt a chance of missing out on Pochettino.
Aside from him there isnt many managers who fans would want that is available. Possibly only Allegri or someone from the Bundesliga that could be swayed to come here.
I'm worried that Ole will do enough to secure qualification by getting 4th (or even 5th!) in one of the poorest premier league competitions in a long time (outside of City and Liverpool), stay for another year and Pochettino goes somewhere else.
And even worse - somewhere else in Premier League as a direct rival. Then come next year when more teams consolidate and bring in good players (Chelsea, Arsenal, Wolves, Everton, Spurs) - and Solskjær starts underperforming.
By underperforming I mean not starting to challenge for a title and/or Champions league knock-out stages. Because with the team United will have next season with Rashford, Pogba/Graelish, another striker and possibly Sancho then almost any manager could and should get at least top 4. Will be harder to properly assess Ole's skills then just because its such a good team.
Now, I think that the new players and playstyle is a credit to Ole, but I also dont know if he is able to build further on that.
In the end I think that if he gets top 4 and possibly but not necessarily a cup triumph I think that he deserves to get another year to see what he can do and he will 100% get it as well.
We are lucky that United has such a stature in the football world that elite managers always would want to manager here though.
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