You say we have never been closer/more ready since SAF retired but we've finished second/top 4 in that time and also won the Europa League, League cup and FA cup, and clearly those teams (our best under LVG and Jose) reached a higher level than we are currently at. You could argue that this team has more potential especially on account of it's age however it still needs top class coaching that can take everything to their individual and collectively peak, and to resolve the age of problem of being toothless in attack.
Honestly, we are not that far away...
- Thread starter Maluco
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
We're closer to 20th than 1st
So. We're actually not that far away you're right
So. We're actually not that far away you're right
True. We are only 5 spots away from winning the league.
Improved going forward I mean
Watching the match yesterday I was actually a bit encouraged for once. More drive and impetus even after going down in such an absurd fashion in a difficult place. Defensively I thought we seemed more resilient as well, especially on set pieces. It does look like perhaps the signings, especially Bruno Fernandes, and maybe even the whole “culture” project has brought about a bit of togetherness in the squad. Or something feels like it has changed since the awful rut of the last few months anyway.
But then I look at the match statistics, and once again we’re not creating a lot. And like others have said, it almost seems like an iron clad rule that we can’t take advantage of others dropping points. If these patterns continue, and we fail to get Champions League football yet again, all this talk of Sancho and other hot prospects will be very difficult to realise come the summer given the inevitable competition from more stable and successful clubs.
And in my opinion, we will not do ourselves any favours in this regard, if we stick with the current manager. Should we miss out on the Champions League, a new and more promising project will be especially key to our recruitment.
But then I look at the match statistics, and once again we’re not creating a lot. And like others have said, it almost seems like an iron clad rule that we can’t take advantage of others dropping points. If these patterns continue, and we fail to get Champions League football yet again, all this talk of Sancho and other hot prospects will be very difficult to realise come the summer given the inevitable competition from more stable and successful clubs.
And in my opinion, we will not do ourselves any favours in this regard, if we stick with the current manager. Should we miss out on the Champions League, a new and more promising project will be especially key to our recruitment.
Ive been saying this all season though. The most important thing is attitude and desire, first, quality second. Liverpool have proved that this season. Look at Robertson, Gomez, Henderson, Keita, Firminho, Milner, Wijnaldum, Matip etc...are they world beaters? Absolutely not. Salah and Mane are great players but it’s their attitude, work rate and desire that really elevated them from “talented” to “world class”.
Solskjaer knows this and identified straight away three categories of player;
1. Good enough, committed enough
2. Not good enough, committed enough
3. Not committed enough
The players in category three went first. Yes, that’s meant we have a few “category two’s” playing more often than they should - but at least their attitude is right.
Since joining, Ole has signed three “category 1s”. If he does that every 12-18months we will win a major trophy within 3/4 seasons.
Solskjaer knows this and identified straight away three categories of player;
1. Good enough, committed enough
2. Not good enough, committed enough
3. Not committed enough
The players in category three went first. Yes, that’s meant we have a few “category two’s” playing more often than they should - but at least their attitude is right.
Since joining, Ole has signed three “category 1s”. If he does that every 12-18months we will win a major trophy within 3/4 seasons.
A spanish paper said the other day that 2 English clubs are looking at him - I'm sure one of them will be us he just fits our needs perfectly and a good price.
Ole has made some good decisions regarding selling players, I'll give him that. I'm still not sure about our recruitment, it seems a bit "yes he is a good player, we'll get him". What was the thought with AWB? Don't get me wrong, he's a good defender. But what was the actual thought with him? If we are playing a diamond, like yesterday, then he's not good enough going forward. Do you see my point? I still can't see the theme here. If we are going to be successful, then AWB must be replaced. So we bought a player for £50M to get from 6th to 4th. I can agree that things are looking a bit more positive though. I think we have many young players who are and can become really good. Henderson, Tuanzebe, Pogba, Bruno, Maguire, Williams, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood etc. Young players who are good and can become and in some cases will become much better. I think a front three of like Rashford, Martial, Sancho, Greenwood has the potential to be one of the deadliest in Europe. I still have my doubts around Ole and I definitely have my doubts regarding recruitment because I can't see the theme regarding playing style.
De Gea's mistake was a kick in the teeth but I too was encouraged by our play, and particularly our attitude, in the first half but barring some good defensive work we were very poor across the board after the break. We couldn't hold onto the ball much less create anything and I think Ole was too slow to make changes to our shape and personnel in the face of Everton's tactical changes and sustained energy. Being out-enthused and done tactically by a decent Everton team in a game we really had to win to keep our momentum up going into the derby doesn't strike me as the actions of a side not that far away.
I broadly agree with your appraisal of the bigger picture. No CL football will stymie us in the market when we need a few quality additions to truly kick on, and I have little confidence in Ole being able to form a side that has the correct personnel and know-how to get us back at the top table if we miss out on CL this year.
I remember a Liverpool fan trying to persuade me with this crap on their part. It was during the treble season.
Klopp or Pep would not have spending 50 million on AWB or even think about going for him. Not a hope in hell so I can safely say it was another pretty bad signing. We need a proper attacking full back.
Martial is probably the most overrated player we ever had at the club. Decent but no where near the level of Sane or Salah or City's attacking players. Can we move on from him please as I'm getting pretty frustrated with him.
New CF, RW, AM and CM definitly needed in the Summer. We have the basis of a good team but still a long way to go.
Martial is probably the most overrated player we ever had at the club. Decent but no where near the level of Sane or Salah or City's attacking players. Can we move on from him please as I'm getting pretty frustrated with him.
New CF, RW, AM and CM definitly needed in the Summer. We have the basis of a good team but still a long way to go.
I am not doubting the validity of your post necessarily (tl:dr), but did you have something against an already existing thread on pretty much exactly the same subject? https://www.redcafe.net/threads/were-actually-quite-good.453522/
I think we're at least 2 players of high class/world class quality away + better coaching.
Haaland and Sancho and a world class coach? = We could be making waves across Europe.
De Gea
AWB Bailly Maguire Shaw
Fred
Bruno Pogba
Sancho Haaland Rashford
Bench: Romero, Williams, Martial, McT, Greenwood, Lindelof
Haaland and Sancho and a world class coach? = We could be making waves across Europe.
De Gea
AWB Bailly Maguire Shaw
Fred
Bruno Pogba
Sancho Haaland Rashford
Bench: Romero, Williams, Martial, McT, Greenwood, Lindelof
Wan-Bissaka is the kind of player who will always play superb defensively, and when that happens fans will overlook his offensive short-comings. That being said, although he's improved his wing-play a small amount, the club has to be realistic. If they're expecting him to be a creative outlet, they'll have to temper their expectations accordingly. He'll never be that guy.
That front 5 look unstoppable......on paper anyway.
I honestly believe we are only 2/3 players away from our first proper title challenge since Sir Alex retired. Liverpool might be run away winners this season but there's been a lot of luck involved in their run this season and their overall performance level has been quite a step down from the previous 2 seasons. I can see them struggle next season, Klopp asks so much of the players every game and with this being their first title in so long I can see next season being somewhat of a hangover from this one. Who can forget Dortmund in the relegation zone not long after winning the title, the whole squad was burnt out and I think this Liverpool side will suffer the same fate.
Mourinho has ruined spurs, Arsenal are a laughing stock and Abramovich doesn't appear to be interested in spending big anymore. I think City could be our main danger but it all hinges on their ban appeal. If they're banned from the champions league for 2 seasons there's no way they'll get any top players in and will likely lose some.
------------------Martial-------------
Rashford----Bruno----New??--
--------New??---McTominay------
Shaw---Maguire--New??--Bissaka
Fill those gaps and we'll take some beating. Tuanzebe could possibly make the step up but the kids made of glass.
Mourinho has ruined spurs, Arsenal are a laughing stock and Abramovich doesn't appear to be interested in spending big anymore. I think City could be our main danger but it all hinges on their ban appeal. If they're banned from the champions league for 2 seasons there's no way they'll get any top players in and will likely lose some.
------------------Martial-------------
Rashford----Bruno----New??--
--------New??---McTominay------
Shaw---Maguire--New??--Bissaka
Fill those gaps and we'll take some beating. Tuanzebe could possibly make the step up but the kids made of glass.
We're not tbh, saw this on Twitter i would replace Dembele with Jimenez
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
You couldn’t keep Pep from spending £50m in a full back, it’s his favourite thing.
Sweet Jesus, the amount of people including Bailly need their heads looked at. Have you watched him at all over the past 2 seasons. An absolute car crash of a defender and injury prone to boot. We've got to get rid in the summer. His PSG performance was the worst I've ever seen from a United player.
Calm down.
Sorry Colin
My thoughts were focused on the make up of the squad, not really how well we are playing or even the tactically and coaching side of things.
I just think we are very close to having a really good squad, I didn’t really want to argue about Ole etc...
I just think it’s exciting that two more transfers could give us on of the top squads in the league again.
When you look at the 2nd half of the match yesterday when we could quite easily have lost as the bloke on the touchline hasnt a clue then we are a million miles away from winning the league. Even with Sancho who will take up 75% of the transfer budget, we will still need a top class CF as Martial isnt the answer. We need more quality all over. A CD to play with Maguire, a DM, another WC CM to play along Bruno. We need a proper manager who can implement change at any time on the pitch, not a one dimensional ex player. we need coaches who are experienced at the top level, not 2 novices.
Pep and Klopp go for attacking full backs which a top club needs. That's the difference.
if there's one thing watching sports as taught me is to never assume a young group no matter how talented will blossom collectively into champions. Rarely ever pans out. Anyway till we get the right manager we will always look one or two big upgrades away to the hopefuls.
After adding 200m we shouldn't be another 200m from reasonable top 4 contention
After adding 200m we shouldn't be another 200m from reasonable top 4 contention
With 13 players including two GKs? 1st, easily!
More seriously, I agree we aren’t that far away. If a fit Rashford plays yesterday, he puts away one of those chances and we nick a win imo.
Sancho, Grealish, young player development. Possibly/probably coach that can get them up to the next level (think Ole will peak at top 4 level regardless of players). After team settles with that for a year, summer 2021 look at upgrading weak points (possibly CB to partner Maguire, possibly left back, possibly holding midfielder, along with squad refreshing with older players leaving).
Gk: De Gea, Romero, Henderson long term
No issues
RB: Wan Bissaka, Dalot, Laird as youngster
No issues
CB: Maguire, Bailly, Lindelof, Tuanzebe, Jones, Smalling
Smalling likely off. Maguire is good. Bailly potential but always injured, in last chance territory IMO. Tuanzebe fine as squad player, not sure he has what it takes to be a starter. Lindelof not good enough but fine as squad. Probably buy one if Bailly can't stay fit. Revisit summer 2021.
LB: Shaw, Williams
Fine for now. Summer 2021 or 2022 revisit if we need more going forward from the position and neither of them really convince by that time.
Midfield: Bruno, Pogba, Fred, McTominay, Matic, Pereira, Garner, Gomes and Mejbri as youngsters
Pogba likely gone, hopefully Pereira gone, hopefully Gomes stays and we'll have 3 excellent youngsters to provide depth. McTominay, Matic and Fred is fine as a group of 3 for the base of midfield, but also wouldnt be too big to have an upgrade with a top player there. Revisit summer 2021 for DM (especially with Matic likely leaving then). I'd take Grealish though and add to the quality in midfield. Can find different combinations between the players we have against different opponents, would be fine and give good cover and boost in quality.
Attack: Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Ighalo (on loan), James, Lingard, Mata, Chong
Chong probably gone, Mata bit part, Lingard squad player, Ighalo short term loan, Greenwood not going to be starter level for a bit yet. Missing the 1 starter at right wing. Sancho the dream. Summer 2021 see if we need to do anything more with CF, between Martial and Greenwood I think we're ok though, provided we get Sancho at RW.
Matter of giving the young squad time to gel, while they progress don't fall behind on replacements when needed. Sancho and Grealish give loads of starting 11 quality and gives us enough depth, just needs time for them all to peak. In that time, change the manager to someone who can reach the top, as that potential team could compete for everything.
Gk: De Gea, Romero, Henderson long term
No issues
RB: Wan Bissaka, Dalot, Laird as youngster
No issues
CB: Maguire, Bailly, Lindelof, Tuanzebe, Jones, Smalling
Smalling likely off. Maguire is good. Bailly potential but always injured, in last chance territory IMO. Tuanzebe fine as squad player, not sure he has what it takes to be a starter. Lindelof not good enough but fine as squad. Probably buy one if Bailly can't stay fit. Revisit summer 2021.
LB: Shaw, Williams
Fine for now. Summer 2021 or 2022 revisit if we need more going forward from the position and neither of them really convince by that time.
Midfield: Bruno, Pogba, Fred, McTominay, Matic, Pereira, Garner, Gomes and Mejbri as youngsters
Pogba likely gone, hopefully Pereira gone, hopefully Gomes stays and we'll have 3 excellent youngsters to provide depth. McTominay, Matic and Fred is fine as a group of 3 for the base of midfield, but also wouldnt be too big to have an upgrade with a top player there. Revisit summer 2021 for DM (especially with Matic likely leaving then). I'd take Grealish though and add to the quality in midfield. Can find different combinations between the players we have against different opponents, would be fine and give good cover and boost in quality.
Attack: Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Ighalo (on loan), James, Lingard, Mata, Chong
Chong probably gone, Mata bit part, Lingard squad player, Ighalo short term loan, Greenwood not going to be starter level for a bit yet. Missing the 1 starter at right wing. Sancho the dream. Summer 2021 see if we need to do anything more with CF, between Martial and Greenwood I think we're ok though, provided we get Sancho at RW.
Matter of giving the young squad time to gel, while they progress don't fall behind on replacements when needed. Sancho and Grealish give loads of starting 11 quality and gives us enough depth, just needs time for them all to peak. In that time, change the manager to someone who can reach the top, as that potential team could compete for everything.
As much as everyone wishes it, Solskjaer will not take us back to the top, we need a few more players and a better manager if we are to go the distance. However, there is the makings of a good young squad forming here which I like and think we can push on with big time.
Just another £300m+ away, then!
Poch is not a better coach than Ole.
Where are you getting 300mil from?
Their careers thus far, strongly suggest otherwise.
Much better to continue to be negative about everything. Like the rest of the forum.
That's a conservative estimate, given the players selected.Where are you getting 300mil from?
Oh come on.. please
How much do you value those players at?
What for Sancho, Jimenez and Partey? We can get them for under £250mil
You think we can buy Sancho, Grealish, Partey and Jiminez for less than £300m?
Plus Grealish.
Yeah i still think it would be under £300mil
I don't know. I'm asking you what you value them at. You gave the estimate