A better manager and id say 3/4 players in the summer and we could be there, we have the makings of a good squad here
Honestly, we are not that far away...
- Thread starter Maluco
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I agree. 3 x first-team signings and a new manager and I would back us to push for 2nd next season, to be honest.
Why a new manager? The making of a good squad implies it wasn't as good a squad before, right? Most would argue he already improved the squad by buying four players and promoting Williams, so it was even worse before those signings. Could the state of our squad have influenced our performance?
Keep Ole
Sell Pogba
Go all out for Harry Kane
We finish 3rd minimum next season
Sell Pogba
Go all out for Harry Kane
We finish 3rd minimum next season
Oh, and another 3-4 players would make the totalt 7-8 players + Williams.
Because he isn't a good manager, never has been and never will be. His entire career so far reflects this. Just because he bought a few players that have turned out to be decent so far doesn't mean that's exclusive to Solskjaer, better managers can do that too.
What about keeping Pogba and getting Kane? Title??
I hate this rational. That assumes that to win a title you need a squad full of world class players. You don't and never have.
Fergie quite often had very average players in the squad and first 11 and kept winning, as does every team in Europe.
Players often look better because they are in a good team, performing well, with a few world class talents. Just look at Liverpool or Leicester when they won.
We are 1 or 2 starting eleven players from challenging for a title, if Pogba stays. Injuries cannot be predicted and had we not suffered them to key players this season we'd likely be in third, challenging for second.
Whilst i generally agree, it worked because Fergie was a great manager, it's working now with Klopp as well because he's a great manager. Solskjaer is neither of them.
You can say that he need to prove himself at a higher level to be deemed a good manager. But apart from a failed period at Cardiff - which any manager would have failed because their team was so horrible, he has mostly done very well as a manager but at a lower level.
So his entire career doesn't reflect that.
Better managers can make decent signings - but a signing is only decent if you sign the right players and use them correctly.
So my question to you - if this is so Easy - how come Moyes, LvG and Mourinho all failed at it ?
Squad building is pivotal though right? I mean look at the so called 'better managers' we have had, like supposedly Moyes (aka the chosen one). LVG or Jose... I mean thats largely why Ole is getting flack as he is clearing out and trying to replace the mess that they created.
Ok, but you're asking for 8-9 new players and a new manager to make us competitive. Yet the manager we got has us fighting for top four, starting out with none and half of the players you want in before we're good enough. You don't think the state of our squad had any impact on how we performed last/this season?
Again a reminder that I am talking purely in terms of the squad.
Almost every player that plays is consistently performing. There are no schneiderlin or Schweinsteiger moments when you realize it hasn’t worked.
All new signings are performing and have proven they have, at the very least, potential. The squad is young, the bad energy and influences are being removed. The players that weren’t contributing in the right way are slowly being filtered out. We have a committee and a direction in terms of recruitment that looks to be paying dividends.
If we make two big summer signings (and possibly a third younger player), you are looking at a squad full of talent and a bench of actual options in all areas of the pitch. Young options that are getting better all the time.
There are some questions, but much fewer than before.
If it’s RAWKish to be optimistic when we have a genuinely likeable, young squad for the first time in a long time, I’ll take that!
That doesn't mean you require 6 new players. It means you require a new manager, if you think he isn't good enough. A top manager is easier to bring in than 6 top players.
A poor manager can make a team of top players look bad.
I don't actually think we need to do either. I think Ole could win the league, as he said himself he likes to delegate, and hopefully he does so by bringing in some top coaches.
Thats on Ole. Like it or not
The notion that you can only truly judge a manager after x amount of signings is a myth that was invented among United fans because of our financial might. That's the normal state of affairs at every other club who can't afford 150m every summer.
Without injuries this season we would be in 3rd place now. I think with 4 more top players (When Pogba goes) we could be challenging next season.
CF, DM, RW, and a CB .
CF, DM, RW, and a CB .
Priority wise (if Pogba stays),
1. RW
2. CF
3. DM
4. CB
3 and 4 we could probably squeeze by without, next season. Fred, McT and Matic there for DM. Bailly, Maguire, Tuanzebe, Jones, Lindelöf there for CB.
I think a few of these you named will be on the move out. Matic won't sign a new contract, and I think Bailly and Jones will go. We are still a little shaky in the back 4 and need a fast CB to play alongside Maguire.
Jones I hope so, but going by Bailly's game against Chelsea I still have hope in him, he showed glimpses that he can be a really good partner for Maguire with his speed, tenacity and strength, if he can fix his glass ankles/knees hopefully.
I have to say, I still don't trust Bailly. He is a red card waiting to happen ( with a penalty given away also). Yes I think his glass ankles/knees came from his clumsy tackles.
I'll finish the thread title off: "Honestly we are not that far away from being a top four side".
Firstly, all this positive talk of we have a good young squad - we do. It's getting stronger. Secondly, more talk on the flip side on how we need a good manager - the forum is literally split; half want him in, half want him out. Personally I think we do need a more astute, experienced manager to add the missing ingredient - the winning mentality. City had it for two seasons in a row and have dipped slightly this season and Liverpool had it up unitl 3 games ago. You watch, Klopp will have them up again shortly, all down to the manager. Pep has got City "on it" again - their winning mentality is almost back. We've been fragile this season and very inconsistent. Liverpool have gone out nearly every game thinking they were going to win it from the start and also even when going a goal behind, just like City had it previously. The derby this sunday will be a good indicator.
In my opinion we don't yet have it and are a way off it. That's the difference between a top four team level which we are nearly at and a title winning team.
Firstly, all this positive talk of we have a good young squad - we do. It's getting stronger. Secondly, more talk on the flip side on how we need a good manager - the forum is literally split; half want him in, half want him out. Personally I think we do need a more astute, experienced manager to add the missing ingredient - the winning mentality. City had it for two seasons in a row and have dipped slightly this season and Liverpool had it up unitl 3 games ago. You watch, Klopp will have them up again shortly, all down to the manager. Pep has got City "on it" again - their winning mentality is almost back. We've been fragile this season and very inconsistent. Liverpool have gone out nearly every game thinking they were going to win it from the start and also even when going a goal behind, just like City had it previously. The derby this sunday will be a good indicator.
In my opinion we don't yet have it and are a way off it. That's the difference between a top four team level which we are nearly at and a title winning team.
Uh.......mate...….half of that team was signed by Ole himself in the Championship and he had them teetering on relegation again when they fired him!
Christ, the rewriting of history is mad. Ole spent an absolute FORTUNE on that Cardiff side and they had to fire him to prevent a second straight relegation.
Bringing it up at all is mad. It has no relevance to what is happening right now. Absolutely none whatsoever
amen
Honestly i do believe that we are closer to being back at the top too. Ole has done a great job. I still think he can do better but as Matic said a few days earlier, he's learning at the job and is doing a pretty good job at it. Many of us threw him under the bus after his first few games with us when he took us on a wonderful journey and then got the contract. Since then it's been a topsy-turvy because after he signed a contract with the club, he has taken the job seriously and taken into account the future of the club. He has weeded out the bad players and cleared out all the deadwood before entering the 2019/20 season. He clearly knew it was going to be difficult to play good football this season with a thin squad but has managed to play with a thin squad and still in the fight for a top 4 spot and a CL qualification. We now have conquered the likes of Harry Maguire, AWB, James and Bruno who are all going to be a huge part of the club for the foreseeable future. We are beginning to play some hardcore football with the addition of Bruno into the mix. With the addition of some more players from the likes of Sancho, Jack Grealish, Maddison, Koulibaly, and maybe Dembele we could be that team who will be feared by other teams in the PL and Europe. Ole is very close to putting together a great team but of course all that depends on how the club supports him and what goes on between the Glazers, Ed Woodward and the addition of a DoF.
My worries with Ole-
Late substitutions- of course that depends on managing the squad. He does it in every game though. Maybe he thinks we don't have impact making subs in our squad as yet.
Formation- I so badly want him to try 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 or a diamond in midfield.
In game management- pushing players to make changes as the game goes on.
BUT all in all, Ole's at the WHEEL and we're heading in the right direction!
My worries with Ole-
Late substitutions- of course that depends on managing the squad. He does it in every game though. Maybe he thinks we don't have impact making subs in our squad as yet.
Formation- I so badly want him to try 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 or a diamond in midfield.
In game management- pushing players to make changes as the game goes on.
BUT all in all, Ole's at the WHEEL and we're heading in the right direction!
With a decent RW and Grealish, we are easily good enough to finish 3rd. Add a DM and back up striker and we should be good enough to set least compete for the title. Though, I suspect that is at least another summer away.
So we’re aiming to finish 3rd now? Ole is struggling to finish 4th
Well if I look at our starting 11 and Liverpools or City's I can only see Rashford, Maguire, Pogba, Bruno making the cut at either one of those two teams.
If Martial was at either one of these two teams he would be dropped with immediate effect until his work rate improves.
I would take 3rd next season if offered it yes
This is the normal media driven agenda against United managers that many buy into and add fuel to.
Just look at how poorly Pep is doing with that squad, Lampard, Arteta. It’s a free ride for those until they hear from the club that they are getting binned and they jump on them then.
Basically a lot of the super negative posters / fans are the ones the press need in order to peddle their shite every week, because they would rather parrot the sun or the daily mail instead of backing the current manager and actually do a bit of supporting.
No offence to anybody on the caf, I’m not pointing fingers just stating that without that audience the press would ease up on us imo.
Good post. We have little to no winning mentality under Ole and it’s clear as day to see that whoever he gets in we’re going to remain inconsistent. All of this “he’s doing a great job” talk is doing my head in and our latest draw with a poor Everton on the day is met with “he can’t win every game” when we’re chasing top four and he hasn’t been winning very much at all. Our standards are absolutely shot.
Never mind Martial. Klopp and Pep wouldn’t play Lingard and Peierra full stop. Ole fielded then both for months before realizing they’re not going to do anything.
We’re going to get less points than under Moyes and will finish further behind title winners than ever before in the Premier League, I think it’s fair to say it’s bit too early to start talking about how close we are to being any good.
Just as Ole can’t make some of these players better, better players won’t make Ole a much better manager. Better players, same management and outspending every other club will see us back in top four but that’s about it.
Just as Ole can’t make some of these players better, better players won’t make Ole a much better manager. Better players, same management and outspending every other club will see us back in top four but that’s about it.
I agree. It's always been a two-fold problem, and still is a two-fold problem. New signings will get us a few more points, sure, but having a manager like Ole will always hold us back.
Pochettino, Sancho, Grealish and a quality defensive midfielder and I think we’re challenging for the title. I think the aforementioned plus a consistent striker and quality/pacey partner for Maguire at the back and we’re a serious force on all fronts.
A sensible post in a transfer discussion thread?!! Colour me shocked.
Why don’t you go and spew your misery into one of the many doom and gloom threads on here, rather than here.
Not sure I agree with that. If we want to point fingers at lacking of winning mentality then surely Pochettino is right at the top of the list? Constantly failed to win the big games throughout his career at Tottenham. Granted he made them significantly better and got them crushing the low/mid table teams, but he never managed to find that crucial winning spark.
Ole in many ways is actually the reverse, he's got a pretty damn good record against the top teams but currently the team struggles with the mundane title winning matches by winning against poorer opposition. He's also got us on decent runs of form, with the initial winning run when he first started and our current unbeaten streak right now. Those are positive signs to me. Signs of what could happen if he's given more time to continue to fix issues with the squad (which he seems pretty good at doing so far).
I'm not sure many of us think he's got it in him to make us win the title, but I do think a decent proportion of Ole backers understand that he's improving the club and squad and when he does eventually leave he'll have built a solid platform for the next Manager. It just seems that too many of our fans are impatient and demand that we wave a magic wand and instantly change our fortunes and be challenging for the title again. I mean this thread is a prime example of it, a few signings and new Manager and apparently we're pushing for 2nd. Just doesn't seem realistic to me unless those few players are the worlds best.
Before I learned to have a more nuanced view on humans, I would have said you are a complete and utter twat.For anybody suggesting that Ole and Poch are on the same level, I'd advise that they be sectioned, for their own safety.
I actually don't rate Poch too highly, mainly because he has never won a trophy, but Ole is the worst manager in the EPL (which Poch is not). Even when you focus on sentiment: many club supporters would swap their manager for Poch, but no supporter would be dumb enough to swap their manager for Ole.
That's about the only coach in the EPL who Ole is better than.
And I was probably right.