Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[UNITED ACADEMY]

What do you mean? The evidence is in their own quotes. Ronaldo said he's a nice guy, absolutely nothing about his coaching ability. The other two just said he'd 'go on to be' a good coach. But it's all irrelevant anyway as he'd literally just retired and none of them had been coached by him at all, not properly anyway. Just friends saying nice things in the media about each other.

As for Rio now...


That is what you call a look of regret.

WTF is this video has anything to do with Rio's opinion on Ole. The video basically summarise Rio's opinion why we are in inconsistent form, the reason is because we are relying on young players. We have to rely on young players now because our recruitment in the past under Mourinho & LVG had been failure.

Dude, you are either tried to twist it to suit your argument or you got no clue what he was talking about in that video.

 

[hobbers]

A "no" then?
Even Lukaku has stated that OGS "is taking United in the right direction". Is he also a mate?

https://www.goal.com/en-ph/news/luk...oing-in-the-right-/1rihoywhga6mc10jm0z8i4xmoi



His literally just talking about how recruitment and bad choices for the past 7 years have left the squad in a bad state, and that it explains the rocky season and inconcistency. He is defending Ole. Try to keep the sound on when you watch

The point is that he's 'literally' looking embarrassed for being the loudest of the ex-United players who were demanding Ole be given a contract prematurely. He knows, like Gary knows but won't admit publicly, they gave Woodward all the ammunition he needed to shoot the club in the foot.

And Lukaku didn't even mention Ole there. You can throw out as many irrelevant quotes from random players as you like, they aren't going to warp reality. Ole won't become a good manager and United won't become successful on the power of polite and insincere interview answers.

How can you be so overly buoyed by empty cliches and vacuous backscratching in the media? Really baffling. I suppose this is just proof of the power of propaganda and why clubs are smart to invest in media relations specialists. There are plenty who do actually fall for it.

 

[Mainoldo]

They were wrong about him being a good coach for them? How can they be? As far as I know he hasn't failed at United. He still has the job, are very much in contention for the Europa League and FA cup while still running for a top 4 spot.

Who you kidding. He’s not achieving them targets like we all knew Mourinho would flop at Spurs. Only difference we feel like we owe him some time of loyalty. He’s one of our ownnnn.

 

[Merlin 1975-78]

Wilder at Sheffield has limited players that play a certain system that is very tough to beat. We see it every year that a team comes up from the championship, gives everyone a run for their money, then a season later it all falls to shite and you never hear of the manager again. Wilder is into his 4th season at Sheffield also, so has had time to mold the team to his liking.

Ole has inherited a mountain of shite. Lampard inherited a world class team at Chelsea, with 2 of the best central midfielders in Europe, and he's still struggling. I'm not saying we should definitely stick with Ole after the summer but he's playing with half a team. Daniel James, Martial, Lindelof, Fred, Scott McT are players that should be squad players here. Fred and Scott have been brilliant but they are Darren Fletcher types who should only come into the team when we're playing away to City or Liverpool and have to defend for our lives. The reality for Ole is that you can't enter into a summer window and buy 6 World class players. You're lucky if you can get 2 or 3 in that are good enough, and hope you can build from there but such was the shit-show that Ole inherited that he's only half way into a rebuild after 2 transfer windows.

Very well put as that's exactly how I see it aswell!

 

[Snow]

No, it makes perfect sense. The amount of tactical attacking coaching that front 3 required was minimal because of how indomitable their individual talents were, and obviously these individual talents were innate and not coached into them. No one taught Ronaldo that free kick technique, for instance. Or coached Rooney to cover every blade of grass to win the ball back high up the pitch. That was just natural to them. Now that we don't have players with their talents, coaching at both individual and team level becomes all the more important.

And on that note it's quite obvious that Rashford's improvement as the season has gone on is more down to his own personal growth and getting to play inside left after Martial came back from injury, than from any attacking coaching he's been getting.

Rooney was definitely coached here. He was explicitly told to stop running around as much as he did because he wasted energy and got out of position too much. You really think Rooney was just a fully fledged player at 22?

How do you know how much of Ronaldo's shooting technique was taught or not? You believe he was alone all the time shooting or maybe someone watched him and told him "try hitting it a bit more that way" or a goalkeeper saving those free kicks telling him the difference between saving the shots.

There are a bunch of interviews with players out there talking about all the small details that made Sir Alex a great manager. It's not all about coaching but how the manager approaches the players, speaks to them, how the manager makes them feel being part of the team. Look at Mourinho for example. That used to be his biggest strength as a manger but with us it was a weakness of his. It's clear to me hearing how Ole speaks, how players speak about him and past managers that he's much closer to SAF man management style than any of the other previous 3 and I see that as a positive.

 

[ReallyUSA]

Fred's statements on him in that paper was a clear indication.

 

[sammsky1]

He’s your manager. He’s not mine. who is no one? Do you speak for everyone?

Keep backing ‘your’ manager. Seems to be the only thing your good for when actually discussing Manchester United.

DO you support Manchester United??? If so, it is fact and undeniable that he is our manager.

Moan and whinge and bitch til you get a headache, they wont change until OGS is sacked, resigns or retires.

So sorry to have to correct you, but OGS is your clubs manager.

 

[theklr]

I cannot believe 50% want to sack him now before the seasons results are final.

Not to mention the upheaval a manager sack creates in the dressing room when some stability is finally back in the team.

The short-term thinking of so many are appauling. At least give the man a full season and see what he can do.

If we dont get CL or any trophies, fine, sack him and get on with it (even if that probably wont happen even so), I agree.

But until then, give the man some support. Poch isnt available until the summer anyway.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

I cannot believe 50% want to sack him now before the seasons results are final.

Not to mention the upheaval a manager sack creates in the dressing room when some stability is finally back in the team.

The short-term thinking of so many are appauling. At least give the man a full season and see what he can do.

If we dont get CL or any trophies, fine, sack him and get on with it (even if that probably wont happen even so), I agree.

But until then, give the man some support. Poch isnt available until the summer anyway.

I agree. The time to sack Ole was before Christmas. I honestly think a new manager with Fernandes and a new manager bounce would have had us around 3rd in the league by now, but that time has been and gone.

He's here until the summer now. If he finishes the season well, great, let's give him next season and new signings in the summer. If he doesn't, sack him off.

 

[Mainoldo]

DO you support Manchester United??? If so, it is fact and undeniable that he is our manager.

Moan and whinge and bitch til you get a headache, they wont change until OGS is sacked, resigns or retires.

So sorry to have to correct you, but OGS is your clubs manager.

Just like Moyes he’s not my manager. He’s just on an internship until the club decides to get serious again. Hopefully in May.

 

[Mainoldo]

I cannot believe 50% want to sack him now before the seasons results are final.

Not to mention the upheaval a manager sack creates in the dressing room when some stability is finally back in the team.

The short-term thinking of so many are appauling. At least give the man a full season and see what he can do.

If we dont get CL or any trophies, fine, sack him and get on with it (even if that probably wont happen even so), I agree.

But until then, give the man some support. Poch isnt available until the summer anyway.

You really haven’t seen enough to make your mind up?

Plus the voting is closed and pretty sure even the most stubborn of non supporters acknowledge he’ll have to stay until the end of the season unless he goes on some made 7 game losing streak.

 

[Bestietom]

We are 3 points from top 4 place and 5th place may get us a place in Champions League if Man City punishment is upheld. We also have a great chance in Europa League with all players back from injury.
If we fail to get into Champions League, then I think Ole will be sacked. It could be that we change the manager in the summer no matter what happens. We will have to wait and see.

 

[Cassidy]

Move him on end of the season, I think he has done as decent enough job as can be expected with his level of experience and the squad, but we need someone better to help us kick on and start challenging for major titles.

2/3 key signings in the summer and a new manager please

 

[theklr]

You really haven’t seen enough to make your mind up?

Plus the voting is closed and pretty sure even the most stubborn of non supporters acknowledge he’ll have to stay until the end of the season unless he goes on some made 7 game losing streak.

I have actually, but I dont think its the right thing to sack manager in the midst of a season when we still have a chance of top 4 and still competing in 2 cups.

Also, it is unquestionable (in my mind at least), that he has had success with his kind of play - and when/if we get Sancho and Pogba/Grealish and Rashford, we would walk over any mid/low-table team almost by default.
Then we could be a quite dangerous team since he does so well against top 6 teams.

And also, he could suprise us all and get 4th + EL cup trophy. If he does that I think he deserves another year.

But 100% he should be sacked if he doesnt get CL.

When did the voting stop by the way?

 

[Bilbo]

This thread should just be locked now until season end. We are bang in the hunt for a top 4 finish, we have a tie we should win to get us into the Europa QF's, and a viable route into the FA Cup SF's. Its an exciting time to be a fan. Every game is crucial now.

People should want to be talking about the football rather than endless re-runs of done-to-death arguments about something that isn't going to happen.

 

[bsCallout]

I've said it a few times, as with everything people focus on the one person. The success of a team is brought about by the coaching team, not just the manager.

I'd like to see us bring in a top coach rather than just get a new manager. For that reason I'd keep Ole.

I've seen enough that I like since he joined to want to want him to stay and get a top coach in to help. He's made some decent decisions so far with his coaching team but I think it needs more improvement. I think it is underestimated how much of a difference that can make. I like Phelan but I wouldn't mind seeing him replaced by someone else.

 

[LInkash]

I've said it a few times, as with everything people focus on the one person. The success of a team is brought about by the coaching team, not just the manager.

I'd like to see us bring in a top coach rather than just get a new manager. For that reason I'd keep Ole.

I've seen enough that I like since he joined to want to want him to stay and get a top coach in to help. He's made some decent decisions so far with his coaching team but I think it needs more improvement. I think it is underestimated how much of a difference that can make. I like Phelan but I wouldn't mind seeing him replaced by someone else.

Even a set piece coach would make a massive difference. Liverpool have one.

We've conceded lots of goals from them and haven't scored enough so imagine how many points we'd have had with one.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

I've said it a few times, as with everything people focus on the one person. The success of a team is brought about by the coaching team, not just the manager.

I'd like to see us bring in a top coach rather than just get a new manager. For that reason I'd keep Ole.

I've seen enough that I like since he joined to want to want him to stay and get a top coach in to help. He's made some decent decisions so far with his coaching team but I think it needs more improvement. I think it is underestimated how much of a difference that can make. I like Phelan but I wouldn't mind seeing him replaced by someone else.

I don't disagree but Ole's whole mantra is based on romanticism and nostalgia, I can't see him releasing former United legends/players and replacing them with people from outside of the fold because it goes against every thing he stands for and his entire sales-pitch for getting/remaining in the job.

And therein lies the problem. We are not hitting the next level with Ole, Carrick, McKenna and Phelan - I'm sorry, we are not. Ole and a team of modern, progressive coaches who can do the things he can't? Absolutely, it could happen.

 

[ReddBalls]

The point is that he's 'literally' looking embarrassed for being the loudest of the ex-United players who were demanding Ole be given a contract prematurely. He knows, like Gary knows but won't admit publicly, they gave Woodward all the ammunition he needed to shoot the club in the foot.

And Lukaku didn't even mention Ole there. You can throw out as many irrelevant quotes from random players as you like, they aren't going to warp reality. Ole won't become a good manager and United won't become successful on the power of polite and insincere interview answers.

How can you be so overly buoyed by empty cliches and vacuous backscratching in the media? Really baffling. I suppose this is just proof of the power of propaganda and why clubs are smart to invest in media relations specialists. There are plenty who do actually fall for it.

What's more baffling is posters making their own reality. I'll give you a negative quote about Ole:

"I didn't get that feel from him that he was a great man-manager," former Cardiff striker Tommy Smith told Love Sport Radio.

https://www.givemesport.com/1464871...n-ole-gunnar-solskjaers-struggles-at-the-club

Weird, as he has been praised for this everywhere else. On the other hand:

The Guardian has been told that Solskjær’s training sessions were innovative, that he possessed a clear vision of how the side should play and that relegation may have been because of an attempt to implement change too quickly. The last view is in line with Solskjær’s take.

His two years in charge of United reserves indicate that he is an original thinker. One example offered by a member of the side Solskjær managed to the 2009-10 Premier Reserve League title is of him asking players to switch positions during sessions to greater understand the other’s role.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...anchester-united-credibility-tactics-coaching

It is fair to be critical about his results so far, but why make things up? If he was horrible at coaching it should be possible to dig something up? No?

And Rio is just fed up with people not understanding the task at hand. The headline is about the clubs recruitment, "it's embarrasing", not about how he feels. He doesn't look a bit embarrased at all.

 

[bsCallout]

I don't disagree but Ole's whole mantra is based on romanticism and nostalgia, I can't see him releasing former United legends/players and replacing them with people from outside of the fold because it goes against every thing he stands for and his entire sales-pitch for getting/remaining in the job.

And therein lies the problem. We are not hitting the next level with Ole, Carrick, McKenna and Phelan - I'm sorry, we are not. Ole and a team of modern, progressive coaches who can do the things he can't? Absolutely, it could happen.

I agree, to some extent. It made sense to use McKenna(youth players) and Carrick. I wouldn't be surprised to see Phelan step down(may have been a short term idea anyway). I also like to think Ole would happily bring in a progressive coach to help. There is nothing stopping him getting extra coaches also. Ole said he likes to delegate, so there is that benefit. That is why I find it slightly shortsighted to think Ole has to go and that is the only solution.

 

[bsCallout]

Even a set piece coach would make a massive difference. Liverpool have one.

We've conceded lots of goals from them and haven't scored enough so imagine how many points we'd have had with one.

I heard they got a coach just for throw-ins? It's never a bad idea to bring these people in to keep things fresh and provide new ideas. I'm confident Ole would do that.

I'd much rather see that than just change a manager that is doing plenty of good things for the whole club, even if performances haven't been consistent. He was also smart enough to say from the outset they would be inconsistent this season.

 

[Bestietom]

I agree, to some extent. It made sense to use McKenna(youth players) and Carrick. I wouldn't be surprised to see Phelan step down(may have been a short term idea anyway). I also like to think Ole would happily bring in a progressive coach to help. There is nothing stopping him getting extra coaches also. Ole said he likes to delegate, so there is that benefit. That is why I find it slightly shortsighted to think Ole has to go and that is the only solution.

Didn't Phelan hold out for a 3 year contract in the summer. Think this is an intention to stick around.

 

[sunama]

Are you saying Ancelotti improved the team in a few months without any signings, what sorcery is this?

Ha ha.
Perhaps we should swap managers.
Ancelotti will improve us almost instantly, while Ole will tell everybody at Everton that he is building for the future and current results don't matter. He shall also require that Everton spend at least £200M, to get them back to the league position they held under their previous manager. The truth is that no other EPL team would swap managers with us, because we have the worst manager in the league. I would even go so far as to say that no Championship team would take Ole.

The narrative that we need to turn to shit, before we become a decent side again, is lunacy.
No other team in the history of the EPL has operated this way. If a manager turns the team to shit, he gets sacked.

We are going to finish on our lowest points total ever and some people on here describe that as progress. I mean, WTF!!!

 

[sunama]

I cannot believe 50% want to sack him now before the seasons results are final.

Not to mention the upheaval a manager sack creates in the dressing room when some stability is finally back in the team.

The short-term thinking of so many are appauling. At least give the man a full season and see what he can do.

He's had over a season to prove that he can take us to the worst league points total in EPL history.
What do think is going to change in the next few months?
Genuine question.

 

[theklr]

He's had over a season to prove that he can take us to the worst league points total in EPL history.
What do think is going to change in the next few months?
Genuine question.

Will anyone complain about worst league point total if we get 4th and win a cup? Dont think so.

EDIT: yes, ofcourse someone will complain, but in my opinion that would be overly negative.

EDIT 2: I dont know what is going to change, but why be 100% sure that it doesnt? All teams form and results changes over a full season.

 

[e.cantona]

We've had Mata, Matic, Fred, Lingard and Pereira on and off for much of the season in midfield. We have improved since the start of the season, but these players didn't look what they do today back in August. Pogba, McT, Martial and Rashford all been out for I don't know how many games combined. Players been overplayed needing rest.

Is there any chance that the state of our squad at the beginning of this season has had any impact on how we've performed? Anyone?

 

[matt10000]

You really haven’t seen enough to make your mind up?

Plus the voting is closed and pretty sure even the most stubborn of non supporters acknowledge he’ll have to stay until the end of the season unless he goes on some made 7 game losing streak.

I have seen enough.

Ole must stay. I can see what Ole is doing and to sack another when he is half way there would be crazy.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I have seen enough.

Ole must stay. I can see what Ole is doing and to sack another when he is half way there would be crazy.

If this is half way there then god help us.

 

[matt10000]

If this is half way there then god help us.

I am not sure who God supports?

 

[Danimancer]

He's had over a season to prove that he can take us to the worst league points total in EPL history.
What do think is going to change in the next few months?
Genuine question.

what's up with this narrative of point tally being such a crucial measure of progress??? If it is the worse one ever or not, does it matter if league position is better? Surely league position should be a better measure of progress? Nobody apart from Benitez remembers/collects point tallies of past seasons...

 

[Mainoldo]

I have seen enough.

Ole must stay. I can see what Ole is doing and to sack another when he is half way there would be crazy.

The worst performing manager we’ve had ever in the Prem. you must be easily pleased.

 

[Shark]

I have seen enough.

Ole must stay. I can see what Ole is doing and to sack another when he is half way there would be crazy.

What specifically have you seen to suggest he’s a long term solution here?

 

[Foxbatt]

If he can't get the basics right then he cannot compete at the top level. That is the problem. He has had enough time to get that right. I am not talking about the players inability to pass or dribble or that sort of thing. If he cannot get a set piece right in almost a full season and the summer break then he cannot get the basics right. Anyone player at not only PL level but championship level can get that right. We never do practice is why it never works. Everyone from the opposing players, to the fans and the tea lady knows that on corners we only try to find Maguire. The only time we scored was because Bailly blocked the opposing player getting to Maguire and a very good corner by Bruno.
I also agree that he will be here at least till the end of the season but as one of the biggest clubs in the world we must get a better manager than Ole Gunnar. We need a top class manager. which he certainly is not.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Wow, people are harsh. Ole is doing a very good job in some areas, a decent job in some areas, and a not so good job in other areas. As any manager, really. As mentioned by plenty of posters, he could do with a better coaching team I think, as he might be lacking in some aspects such as defending set pieces.

But what I think most of us can agree on, is that we're actually moving in the right direction?

He's bringing back our identity, or at least building an identity most of us can get behind. He's buying young, british talent. Promoting academy players. Protecting the players in the media, rather than throwing them under the bus. Protecting the club in the media, even though it might come off as gimmicky every now and then. I would even say that we're playing better football than we've done in years, bar a couple of months under José. The fact that we haven't had (fit/good/enough) players in every position is not on him, and he's doing a lot to fix that (I'd argue his track record in the transfer market so far is immaculate).

You can clearly see there is a project going on. I honestly believe he's altruistic enough that this project is about rebuilding a foundation for Manchester United, not for Ole himself. The same cannot be said about Mourinho, for example, who's only goal has always been to further build his own legacy. Or Van Gaal, a man so stubborn about his methods and philosophy that he could never adjust to modern football.

Whether or not he's our manager in August remains to be seen. If he is, I'm cool with it.
If he's not, I'm cool with that as well. As long as whoever comes in is not hired based on his track record alone, as for example Allegri or Simeone. I'm not entirely sold on Pochettino either, tbh, but I guess that's just me.

But if we're actually going for a new manager, could Ole be our new DOF?

 

[sunama]

We had two of the worlds best coaches at our club, that didnt work out. We dont know what kind of coach Ole is because he is only starting. Barca did it with Pep, Madrid did it with Zidane.

This is actually incorrect.
Ole has been coaching for the same time as Pep.
The difference is that Ole's career has been below average, while Pep knows how to win.
Remember, winning is the main thing in pro sport. Those who claim that results don't count probably don't understand the concept of pro sport and have convinced themselves that losing is "okay".

Ole has shown glimpses in what he can do, the man needs time. He has improved players, he has signed good players. He has been unlucky with injuries. 1 year is not enough time, if all these Ole outers where around in the late 80's Fergie would have been gone. Lucky the board knows bit more about football than some of our 'fans'.

Indeed he has.
He has shown that he can get us a very low points total in the league.
Given enough time, he will demonstrate that he can't win trophies.

 

[theklr]

This is actually incorrect.
Ole has been coaching for the same time as Pep.
The difference is that Ole's career has been below average, while Pep knows how to win.

Even though I agre with your point that Pep is a far better coach, the time frame is the only similar thing. Pep had a very different set of players , both in Barcelona and City.

Ole would do alot better than he has with both those teams. He wouldnt reach the same results but he would be comfortably better than with our United.

Likewise, Pep wouldnt be as good with our squad.

 

[Gehrman]

what's up with this narrative of point tally being such a crucial measure of progress??? If it is the worse one ever or not, does it matter if league position is better? Surely league position should be a better measure of progress? Nobody apart from Benitez remembers/collects point tallies of past seasons...

It's a pretty objective way of measuring progress. Sure nobody gives a damn if you win the leauge with 70 points, but it's an objective of measuring results. Liverpool finished 2nd with 97 points last season that is pretty good measure of their quality compared to our 82 points finish with Jose.

If we finish the season with 2 points more than Sheffield United then quite clearly something is deeply wrong with our club.

 

[Mainoldo]

Even though I agre with your point that Pep is a far better coach, the time frame is the only similar thing. Pep had a very different set of players , both in Barcelona and City.

Ole would do alot better than he has with both those teams. He wouldnt reach the same results but he would be comfortably better than with our United.

Likewise, Pep wouldnt be as good with our squad.

If Sam Allardyce only had Fergie's United.

He probably wouldn’t have been as good as Fergie but if he had Chelsea’s team he would have done a lot better with better players. But similar Fergie wouldn’t have been as good as Allardyce with his ‘imaginary’ Chelsea team.

Am I getting it right?

 

[ash_86]

It's a pretty objective way of measuring progress. Sure nobody gives a damn if you win the leauge with 70 points, but it's an objective of measuring results. Liverpool finished 2nd with 97 points last season that is pretty good measure of their quality compared to our 82 points finish with Jose.

If we finish the season with 2 points more than Sheffield United then quite clearly something is deeply wrong with our club.

This season has been an anomaly to say the least. Liverpool going on that unbeaten run and ahead of second place city by 22 points doesn't sound standard. Liverpool and city squads aren't that apart in quality. Similarly Sheffield united hanging in and around top 4 is also an anomaly. Not many teams get promoted and do well so often. All in all this season feels like the season Leicester won the title. Full of randomness all around. That's why it's not a good idea to focus on point tally especially in this season with so many things deviating from the standard.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

It's simple for me. He's done some good things here but come next season I much rather see a squad like De Gea AWB Maguire Lindelof Shaw Fred Neves Bruno Sancho Rashford Jimenez or whatever coached by Rose/Nagelsman/Pochettino rather than Ole simply because they have shown they are better than Ole.

At this point I just think Ole has set some policies that can help us get back to the top such as promoting youth again and signing the right fit. If this is a rebuild then these policies should not be reliant on the current manager in charge and should continue if we get a different manager

It's very simple. Is Pochettino or Rose (both likely to be available after this season) better than Ole? If the answer is yes then get one of them. I don't get why people are panicking that we would have to start rebuilding again if we get someone like Poch for example. I don't expect us to start targeting Perisic and Boeteng all over again