SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Carolina Red]

Here's a serious question...

What happens when hospitals run out of PPE and respirators for physicians and nurses to wear in the rooms of Covid patients?

We don't have a limited supply of those things, and in a single shift, you can in and out of a room dozens of times, meaning dozens of PPE and respirators in a single day.

 

[The Firestarter]

The UK government really hasn't done as badly as the hyperbole ...

I do wish the lockdowns and closures were enforced and not advisory though. I think it's madness to rely on the general public to do the right thing.

These two statements are contradictory. Of course it's done a terrible job precisely because of the second point.

 

[Dante]

Countries that have been targetted by terrorist attacks are going to be the most resistant to lockdowns.

We've been told for years that we can't let it affect our lives, that we shouldn't cower at home, and that we should try to carry on as normal.

It's a message that's obviously got through, and has led to a level of ingrained defiance that's going to make it difficult for the authorities in a lot of places.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Those stats were in the past week only. The UK is one of the top of testers per capita in Europe. Ireland was behind the UK and may not even be in front of the UK yet. I believe Ireland have also been doing these quick tests recently that some experts think are too unreliable anyway.

Here’s some data, note that whilst it has Ireland doing about half the tests per capita as the UK their data hasn’t been updated for a week.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus

They are not, Ireland has ~1,400 per million and the UK has ~800 per million.

I'm not sure your defense there is a positive, the UK have reduced testing as things have gotten more severe. Great?

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

This is apparently very rare (perhaps in people who were already immuno-suppressed, but still managed to recover), all the evidence suggests you get at least seasonal immunity.

my understanding (and it is of course a fluid picture) was that there was an immunity developed by those that had caught it
the relapses are to the best of my knowledge thought to be because:
Either the immunity you develop is very short term (not apparently the most likely as in all other covid infections humans develop a life long immunity to it)
Or the test for the initial infection was a false positive (or the all clear was a false negative)
From what I hear there is a handful of cases of relapse and as such the false positive / negative would seem the most likely though if course as I say its a fluid situation and nobody knows much for sure

The seasonal immunity would make sense with a slow build up of natural immunity year on year. Let’s hope this virus is seasonal and hopefully a change in climate over the next months will improve it, although considering how this has spread so far climate doesn’t really see to bother it.

 

[senorgregster]

Here's a serious question...

What happens when hospitals run out of PPE and respirators for physicians and nurses to wear in the rooms of Covid patients?

We don't have a limited supply of those things, and in a single shift, you can in and out of a room dozens of times, meaning dozens of PPE and respirators in a single day.

This happened in Italy I believe. Corners will be cut.

 

[berbatrick]

Here's a serious question...

What happens when hospitals run out of PPE and respirators for physicians and nurses to wear in the rooms of Covid patients?

We don't have a limited supply of those things, and in a single shift, you can in and out of a room dozens of times, meaning dozens of PPE and respirators in a single day.

Pogue forwarded somethin which said they were being re-used. Also, how hard can it be to ramp up production???? Why isn't it being done yet?

...

 

[The Firestarter]

Here's a serious question...

What happens when hospitals run out of PPE and respirators for physicians and nurses to wear in the rooms of Covid patients?

We don't have a limited supply of those things, and in a single shift, you can in and out of a room dozens of times, meaning dozens of PPE and respirators in a single day.

You will be sterilising / washing them at some point. Its inevitable .

 

[11101]

https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/17/...pany-threatens-sue-3d-print-valves-treatments

Medical company threatens to sue volunteers that 3D-printed valves for life-saving coronavirus treatments
The valve typically costs about $11,000 — the volunteers made them for about $1

Good luck trying to get that one through an Italian court.

 

[senorgregster]

So my mother sneaked out and went swimming. She said that her dentist told her it would be ok because the chlorine would kill the virus. We're arguing about this and she won't listen to me. Says I'm being dramatic.

Dentists should stay in their lane! Did the chlorine kill the virus on the door handles etc. What an idiot.

 

[TMDaines]

Here's a serious question...

What happens when hospitals run out of PPE and respirators for physicians and nurses to wear in the rooms of Covid patients?

We don't have a limited supply of those things, and in a single shift, you can in and out of a room dozens of times, meaning dozens of PPE and respirators in a single day.

Protocols change. You do the best you can to make the most of the equipment you have. You can't always follow best practice, so you adapt.

Afterwards, you hopefully review and learn lessons.

 

[jojojo]

https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/17/...pany-threatens-sue-3d-print-valves-treatments

Medical company threatens to sue volunteers that 3D-printed valves for life-saving coronavirus treatments
The valve typically costs about $11,000 — the volunteers made them for about $1

That's one of those moments where the government has to step in. You can't let emergency workers/designers get tangled in copyright and franchising debates. That's what emergency powers has to mean.

 

[senorgregster]

These two statements are contradictory. Of course it's done a terrible job precisely because of the second point.

Stop or I'll say stop again!

 

[Skills]

https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/17/...pany-threatens-sue-3d-print-valves-treatments

Medical company threatens to sue volunteers that 3D-printed valves for life-saving coronavirus treatments
The valve typically costs about $11,000 — the volunteers made them for about $1

I think this situation now brings into question the rights of pharmaceuticals/medical companies being allowed to patent such devices or even medicine.

 

[The Firestarter]

All senior citizens should be shown some special footage from the italian hospitals. Maybe that will change their mind.

 

[Fiskey]

Pogue forwarded somethin which said they were being re-used. Also, how hard can it be to ramp up production???? Why isn't it being done yet?

...

This kind of thing is much easier in small places than across whole countries.

 

[horsechoker]

That's one of those moments where the government has to step in. You can't let emergency workers/designers get tangled in copyright and franchising debates. That's what emergency powers has to mean.

Hopefully it turns into a PR disaster for the company and they stop threatening to sue.

 

[JPRouve]

It's exactly the same here. The form we have to complete is long and official (Italy at its finest), and you have to sign to say you're aware of the law and the penalties for breaking it. I need petrol, I can't get that in our village so I'm going to have to venture further very soon.

Surprisingly ours is short and a bit vague. You can see it here by clicking on the link after "attestation individuelle".

 

[Grinner]

Dentists should stay in their lane! Did the chlorine kill the virus on the door handles etc. What an idiot.

I need to find out who he is and knock his fecking lights out

 

[The Firestarter]

I think this situation now brings into question the rights of pharmaceuticals/medical companies being allowed to patent such devices or even medicine.

Imagine that company CEO: Oh my, 3D printing our parts ? And for what purpose? Saving people ? The audacity ! SUE THEM!

 

[Irwin99]

In some ways, it's actually better that their outdoors rather than locked up.

You're more likely to catch influenza in school, because influenza is aerosolised and any close proximity means you're likely to breathe it in.

The coronavirus isn't aerosolised anywhere as easily. The reason that NHS has advised washing hands so strongly is that C19 is spread primarily through droplets that have landed on surfaces which people then touch and bring to their own mouths/noses. It's a physical route rather than an airborne route.

You've got more chance of catching C19 from a family member cooped up at home, than you are from walking around town or sat in a classroom practising social distancing and decent handwashing. This has been borne out in the statistics (75-80% of the spread has been pinpointed as happening in the home rather than in public places).

I admit I'm having trouble processing this because I thought the virus could live on any surfaces for at least a few hours. For instance, you get an infected person coughing on his hand who then touches the button for the traffic lights and then someone else comes along later and presses the button and then unthinkingly touches his/her face a bit later. Isn't that a highly transmissible and realistic scenario that could be mitigated by a total lockdown?

Freely admit I have zero scientific understanding of this but i'm seeing quite a lot of conflicting information and different ideas.

 

[Fiskey]

Imagine that company CEO: Oh my, 3D printing our parts ? And for what purpose? Saving people ? The audacity ! SUE THEM!

Not giving them the dimensions as well, which could have made the 3D printed parts less likely to work.

 

[BluesJr]

I admit I'm having trouble processing this because I thought the virus could live on any surfaces for at least a few hours. For instance, you get an infected person coughing on his hand who then touches the button for the traffic lights and then someone else comes along later and presses the button and then unthinkingly touches his/her face a bit later. Isn't that a highly transmissible and realistic scenario that could be mitigated by a total lockdown?

Freely admit I have zero scientific understanding of this but i'm seeing quite a lot of conflicting information and different ideas.

It can live on surfaces for up to 9 days evidence suggests. Bleak.

 

[Rado_N]

This is a photography/cinematography channel I follow but the guy (the channel is him and his wife) is a doctor who clearly felt compelled to talk about the virus.

Good video and worth sharing.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

Does anyone know anything about locking down London and the army are being readied?!

 

[Carolina Red]

This happened in Italy I believe. Corners will be cut.

You will be sterilising / washing them at some point. Its inevitable .

That's what my wife is concerned about. She obviously doesn't want to be wearing reused PPE.

Pogue forwarded somethin which said they were being re-used. Also, how hard can it be to ramp up production???? Why isn't it being done yet?

The respirators are apparently expensive, and I'd imagine the hospitals are going to go the cheaper option.

Protocols change. You do the best you can to make the most of the equipment you have. You can't always follow best practice, so you adapt.

Afterwards, you hopefully review and learn lessons.

Adapting and using "protective equipment" that isn't protective seem to be two different things.

I'm waiting for them to tell my wife to go into a room without proper PPE.

 

[senorgregster]

I need to find out who he is and knock his fecking lights out

Make sure you aren't on the chair looking up at the lights when you knock them out. Glass will go everywhere.

 

[esmufc07]

14:02
UK education secretary to make statement at 17:00GMT
The UK government's Education Secretary, Gavin Williamson - responsible for the system in England - will make a statement in the House of Commons at 17:00GMT.
In the past hour the governments in both Wales and Scotland have both said their schools would be closing by the end of the week.
Article share tools

 

[The Firestarter]

That's what my wife is concerned about. She obviously doesn't want to be wearing reused PPE.

The respirators are apparently expensive, and I'd imagine the hospitals are going to go the cheaper option.

Adapting and using "protective equipment" that isn't protective seem to be two different things.

I'm waiting for them to tell my wife to go into a room without proper PPE.

What's preferable? Going in with a used PPe or going in raw? Let's be honest, this is war time.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

It's pretty consistent with what all experts are saying around the world regarding the duration.

They have to plan for the worst outcome. I sit on these types of discussions a few times each year, albeit on banking issues but the concept is the same.

 

[jimmyb2000]

Does anyone know anything about locking down London and the army are being readied?!

Just spent the day in London and nearly everyone I spoke to reckons the city will be on full lockdown by weekend. Most businesses are shutting up shop anyway as they've not got any customers

 

[Grinner]

Does anyone know anything about locking down London and the army are being readied?!

I really hope that's true because the people just can't be trusted.

 

[Phil]

Does anyone know anything about locking down London and the army are being readied?!

So many rumours flying around WhatsApp that it'll be tonight, not really buying it though.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Teachers shouldn't be getting a few months off with full pay for me. They should be in schools working with the small group of kids who can't stay at home because their families work in NHS etc. They could do their planning for next year too.

Seen loads of tweets from teachers who clearly just want to be off work and get full pay. Absolutely no chance. You can still work like the rest of us.

 

[fergieisold]

Does anyone know anything about locking down London and the army are being readied?!

Quite likely soon judging by twitter.

 

[TMDaines]

That's what my wife is concerned about. She obviously doesn't want to be wearing reused PPE.

I'm waiting for them to tell my wife to go into a room without proper PPE.

It's inevitable. Happened in Italy, and protocols changing in UK.

There's a reason why people view health workers as heroes, and that's partly because they will ultimately knowingly put themselves at risk for the greater good of helping others.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

They are not, Ireland has ~1,400 per million and the UK has ~800 per million.

I'm not sure your defense there is a positive, the UK have reduced testing as things have gotten more severe. Great?

Where are you getting that data from. I was using this:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/...RE+GBR+United States - CDC samples tested+VNM

But the data for Ireland is a week old.

Many countries have scaled back after the initial outbreak because they believe the efficacy of testing once it is widespread in the community is reduced, as far as I understand. I know the WHO have said testing is of paramount importance based on other countries like Hong Kong and Singapore employing it but I believe it’s likely many other variables are at play, not least the emerging evidence that those countries have the perfect climates to stop spread.

I don’t think many conclusions can be drawn at present in this race to win the least deaths per capita from Coronavirus.

 

[Carolina Red]

What's preferable? Going in with a used PPe or going in raw? Let's be honest, this is war time.

Speaking to my wife about it now... apparently the PPE aren't really designed as something that can be washed.

 

[Smores]

I'm really not sure what's behind the lack of testing. Vallance very much in committee yesterday seemed to want more and suggested the blame was elsewhere and wasn't about advice.

It appears to me not a matter of policy but an inability to organise at the pace required so they're prioritising actions. They'll get round to the type of testing seen elsewhere eventually.

 

[Pexbo]

I wonder at what point this will all sink in and we will begin to understand the scale of it in terms of history.

I don't think (or hope not) that lives lost will be anywhere near the Spanish Flu / World Wars. But I fear that the economical impact and the way that it will change the lives of the majority of the world will be just as great. It really is terrifying to get your head around.