SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[TMDaines]

And from here: https://milano.repubblica.it/cronaca/2020/03/14/news/coronavirus_milano_lombardia_notizie_14_marzo-251269530

"A noi servono mascherine del tipo fpp2 o fpp3 o quelle chirurgiche e invece ci hanno mandato un fazzoletto, un foglio di carta igienica, di Scottex", ha denunciato Gallera ai microfoni di Sky a proposito del materiale sanitario inviato dalla Protezione civile nazionale. Gallera ha spiegato che le mascherine non sono marchiate Cee. "Non voglio fare polemica - ha aggiunto - ma è evidente che non è possibile immaginare di utilizzare queste mascherine se si assistono pazienti infetti".

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"We need masks of the type fpp2 or fpp3 or the surgical ones and instead they sent us a handkerchief, a sheet of toilet paper, Scottex", Gallera reported to Sky's microphones about the health material sent by the National Civil Protection . Gallera explained that the masks are not CE marked. "I don't want to argue - he added - but it is clear that it is not possible to imagine using these masks if we are treating infected patients".

L'allarme lanciato dall'assessore al Welfare di Regione Lombardia Giulio Gallera lascia poco spazio alla fantasia. "Tra poco arriviamo a un punto di non ritorno - ha sottolineato - Se ogni giorno abbiamo 85 persone in piu' che entrano in terapia intensiva e tendenzialmente ne escono due o tre, perche' il dato e' il 10% e il 15% considerato chi esce e chi muore, tutto questo non e' sufficiente. E' difficile per tutti ma, come noi stiamo facendo un grande sforzo, chiediamo la stessa intensità da tutti".

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"We will soon reach a point of no return - he underlined - If every day we have 85 more people entering intensive care and basically leaving two or three, because the figure is 10% and 15% considered who goes out and who dies, all this is not enough. It is difficult for everyone but, as we are making a great effort, we are asking for the same intensity from everyone ".

It should be becoming increasingly clear that public health services all around the world are not currently designed to be able to cope with outbreaks of this size. The world is going to change phenomenally.

 

[JPRouve]

France joining Italy in it's lockdown has been announced.

Supermarkets, pharmacies and the tabacs will remain open but all unneccesary stores will be closed, including restaurants, cafes etc...

It's been dead since Thursday, you would swear that it has been Sunday every day.

 

[Volumiza]

Yep the very same place. Re-opened two years ago apparently and hosting 25 year anniversary of first show or something.

Brilliant! Might dust off my glow sticks and see if dealer Dave Is still in business.

You’re so old.....like, really old. Actually, that sentence put you in the high risk group

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Diarrhoea is apparently not a major symptom of the CV.
Why is everyone stockpiling?

I could be wrong, and it could have been said already, but aren't some people using toilet roll to stop their skin touching things, a piece to open a door, bin it, a piece to hold a takeaway coffee, bin it, a piece to hold a shopping basket, bin it, etc.

Whatever they are beyond selfish, and need to take a long look at themselves.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

And from here: https://milano.repubblica.it/cronaca/2020/03/14/news/coronavirus_milano_lombardia_notizie_14_marzo-251269530





It should be becoming increasingly clear that public health services all around the world are not currently designed to be able to cope with outbreaks of this size. The world is going to change phenomenal

Explains why we let it spread in such a generous fashion.

 

[JPRouve]

You’re so old.....like, really old. Actually, that sentence put you in the high risk group

It reminds me the day where The Black Pearl said that he was going to the disco.

 

[Hal9000]

So my friend who traveled to Vietnam has it, he went last Friday. 10 people on his flight over to Vietnam tested positive and he was tracked down by the Vietnamese police. They came to his hotel, tested him on Friday and he's come back positive today. Been taken to hospital and currently awaiting results of a 2nd test. The thing is he is on that day 7/8 day from the day he potentially caught it and he's saying neither him or his GF are showing any symptoms and he feels OK.

So you can see why it's being spread so easily, especially where there are cases where symptoms are non-existent or so mild they are hardly noticeable. Even more so when the media are really playing on the most serious cases.

Oh also he has shown me a lovely text message from one of the hotels he previously visited begging him not to tell the hospital where he had been so they didn't shut the hotel down.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

It's just two or three teams, so the rest of the league should be fine, by their logic. Amd as I said, I don't get the point in delaying banning public gathering for bext week, why wait?

The closure of the PL has nothing to do with the government.

This is a break down of the UK govt approach in simple terms by someone qualified.

Professor Ian Donald
@iandonald_psych

Psychologist:Social, & Environmental research, & behavioural factors in Anti-Microbial Resistance. Emeritus Professor, University of Liverpool. Typos all my own

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The idea that essentially the WHO approach is reactive and only delaying an inevitable storm at a greater social and economic cost overall.

 

[2mufc0]

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[OutlawGER]

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Is this Louis de Founes?

 

[Skills]

Anyone knows why some countries are in the 100s cases per million(Italy are at 349) while countries like France, China, Netherland or Germany are in the 50-70 range?

Well China's low because it's a massive country and they had to lockdown a province the size of a European country to contain it (~60m people). I think Hubei province's cases would be in the 100s/million.

Too early for France, Netherlands and Germany yet.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

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[Paxi]

Conor McGregor's aunt apparently died of coronavirus, or so he says.

 

[Rado_N]

JFC.

100% voted leave.

 

[JPRouve]

Well China's low because it's a massive country and they had to lockdown a province the size of a European country to contain it (~60m people). I think Hubei province's cases would be in the 100s/million.

Too early for France, Netherlands and Germany yet.

Are these countries late when compared to Switzerland, Spain, Norway or Denmark?

 

[Im red2]

Anyone know if there is any truth in the claim that you can catch it again, after recovery?

 

[TMDaines]

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His firefighting analogy is bizarre, considering a tactic for putting out wild fires is starting new controllable fires that burn through the flammable areas.

 

[VorZakone]

Anyone know if there is any truth in the claim that you can catch it again, after recovery?

Some people saying that's likely a testing error...

 

[nooshka]

Bit of a selfish question, as I am self employed and need to keep earning, but whats the deals in France and Italy with self employed people? Are they made to stay indoors during this lockdown as well?

 

[Skills]

Are these countries late when compared to Switzerland, Spain, Norway or Denmark?

Hmm, I'm not sure now. I think there's a few different factors at play, and I'm not capable of getting my head around many of them.

 

[JPRouve]

Some people saying that's likely a testing error...

But the symptoms did disappear and came back later.

 

[Ubik]

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A silicon valley entrepreneur who has written a book about Star Wars, no less.

 

[Pexbo]

JFC.

When I see this I can only assume that they either A. Run a business or B. Are hedging their bets and intend to sell it in a few weeks time.

 

[zing]

Not the same thing. An antibody is like a flag/marker that attaches to an invader and screams THIS GUY DOESN'T BELONG. And then your immune system comes and takes it out.

Imagine being inside OT on matchday, about a third of the way into the match and suddenly there's a giant flashing arrow attached to you with neon lettering spelling out HE DOESN'T HAVE A TICKET.



No. What goes into a vaccine is either a dead form of the virus or something resembling it or a relevant piece of it. Think of it like a police sketch of a suspect: THEY KIND OF LOOK LIKE THIS. Your immune system goes, ooh, ok. And then your immune system makes the antibodies mentioned above to go and attach to the invaders.

Thanks - how is this used in treatment? Is this injected or made into an oral drug?

 

[Revan]

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This is insane. UK is signing a Holocaust on its own people. To make things even worse, no one is able to answer any of these questions:

1) Are we sure that the disease won’t return?

2) Are we sure that the fatality rate won’t be higher than 1-3% (it is currently 7% in Italy)?

3) Are we sure that the virus won’t mutate on something more deadly?

4) Are we sure that there won’t be long-term consequences (in worst case HIV-like) for the survivals?

No one has any clue to answer any of these questions, but somehow they’re ok with 50 million people catching it within the year.

This is beyond madness!

 

[T00lsh3d]

It reminds me the day where The Black Pearl said that he was going to the disco.

Discotheque

 

[Pogue Mahone]

His firefighting analogy is bizarre, considering a tactic for putting out wild fires is starting new controllable fires that burn through the flammable areas.

Not as bizarre as your analogy. Which has no relevance whatsoever to preventing viral spread.

 

[Wal2Fra]

It's been dead since Thursday, you would swear that it has been Sunday every day.

You been to a supermarket in the past week? Just wondering if people have been panic buying like in the UK?

We did our shop on Monday morning and it was all normal but not been since.

 

[SirAF]

This is insane. UK is signing a Holocaust on its own people. To make things even worse, no one is able to answer any of these questions:

1) Are we sure that the disease won’t return?

2) Are we sure that the fatality rate won’t be higher than 1-3% (it is currently 7% in Italy)?

3) Are we sure that the virus won’t mutate on something more deadly?

4) Are we sure that there won’t be long-term consequences (in worst case HIV-like) for the survivals?

No one has any clue to answer any of these questions, but somehow they’re ok with 50 million people catching it within the year.

This is beyond madness!

Seems absolutely crazy when you consider how hard countries like Norway, Denmark et al are working to shut down.

Surely the UK strategy is a huge gamble? I wouldn’t like to be living there now, that’s for sure.

 

[VorZakone]

But the symptoms did disappear and came back later.

I think the gist was that the symptoms disappeared but the virus was still present or something.
Here are 2 reddit threads discussing it:

1. 2.

 

[Solius]

My dry cough has gotten a little bit worse

 

[JPRouve]

You been to a supermarket in the past week? Just wondering if people have been panic buying like in the UK?

We did our shop on Monday morning and it was all normal but not been since.

I was this morning and it was quiet, no toilet paper and pasta though.

 

[Siorac]

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I still don't understand this logic.

Let's say he's right - after all, he's a professor - and herd immunity is the only way now. But what until we achieve that? Simply letting the virus explode all over the health systems of various countries will have devastating consequences and a staggering death count. Surely, surely, measures that delay that explosion and grant health services time to prepare, to amass more resources and such are necessary and good?

Because this UK idea seems to be simply that the most vulnerable should have the decency to die quickly, the rest should preferably not seek medical attention but wait until it passes. It's all-round weird.

 

[RobinLFC]

This is insane. UK is signing a Holocaust on its own people. To make things even worse, no one is able to answer any of these questions:

1) Are we sure that the disease won’t return?

2) Are we sure that the fatality rate won’t be higher than 1-3% (it is currently 7% in Italy)?

3) Are we sure that the virus won’t mutate on something more deadly?

4) Are we sure that there won’t be long-term consequences (in worst case HIV-like) for the survivals?

No one has any clue to answer any of these questions, but somehow they’re ok with 50 million people catching it within the year.

This is beyond madness!

According to epidemiologists in Belgium, a new virus will never mutate into something more deadly since it’s basically “a teenage virus which hasn’t learned to live with its human yet”. If it would become more deadly, it would kill its carrier thus be ineffective as it actually needs its human carrier to survive itself. Or something like that. Anyway according to multiple experts here - if it’ll mutate it’ll be for the better.

I’m currently in Jordan with a return flight to Amsterdam scheduled tomorrow night. Jordan has suspended all air travel as from Tuesday so I’m really hoping my flight goes through or I could be stuck here for a very long time which I really don’t fancy right now. Just wanna be fecking home again even if it’s way worse there atm.

 

[TMDaines]

This is insane. UK is signing a Holocaust on its own people. To make things even worse, no one is able to answer any of these questions:

1) Are we sure that the disease won’t return?

2) Are we sure that the fatality rate won’t be higher than 1-3% (it is currently 7% in Italy)?

3) Are we sure that the virus won’t mutate on something more deadly?

4) Are we sure that there won’t be long-term consequences (in worst case HIV-like) for the survivals?

No one has any clue to answer any of these questions, but somehow they’re ok with 50 million people catching it within the year.

This is beyond madness!

You’d be a pretty shit Hitler if this was your means of genocide.

1) The virus is likely systemic now. It isn’t going anywhere unless a miracle is found. That’s why we need a vaccine.

2) Yeah, we’re certain. Higher mortality rates will only occur if the health system collapses and those who develop complications don’t get the timely interventions they need. Most will self treat and brush it off, or be quite ill but still recover.

3) We don’t know, but we’re going to have to deal with that problem anyway. We already vaccinate against mutating viruses annually.

4) The stigma of being HIV+ is far worse than the reality of living with it, provided you follow treatment. People live a full life nowadays. This is a completely different type of disease regardless.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

This is insane. UK is signing a Holocaust on its own people. To make things even worse, no one is able to answer any of these questions:

1) Are we sure that the disease won’t return?

2) Are we sure that the fatality rate won’t be higher than 1-3% (it is currently 7% in Italy)?

3) Are we sure that the virus won’t mutate on something more deadly?

4) Are we sure that there won’t be long-term consequences (in worst case HIV-like) for the survivals?

No one has any clue to answer any of these questions, but somehow they’re ok with 50 million people catching it within the year.

This is beyond madness!

And how do you propose to shutdown society for the 18 months its touted to get a vaccine into circulation? I mean in economic and social terms?

 

[Paxi]

Anyone know if there is any truth in the claim that you can catch it again, after recovery?

Theres a theory that the virus still lingers in the body -- It's basically dormant. Then it flares up again suddenly.

 

[Ian Reus]

Can anyone remember what we used to talk about before covid-19 went mainstream?

 

[TMDaines]

Not as bizarre as your analogy. Which has no relevance whatsoever to preventing viral spread.

Well, yeah, I don’t know why he brought it up! You do things all the time that make things worse for a better long term outcome. I’m not sure what he was trying to say.

 

[BluesJr]

The UK Policy is nothing more than an economy driven one and stalling for the Easter holidays. Change my mind.