SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Pexbo]

I'm getting a bit bored of the old man walking story now.

I usually would but I absolutely love this guy.

The fecking Marsh family can eat a bag of dicks though.

 

[Camilo]

Cares about what?

Getting infected/following the rules or social distancing?

Everyone I know in Ireland is settling in for the long haul. Some people are getting a bit more relaxed and not as strict as they were but when I go out people are still making sure not to come too close to you if they don't have to.

Exactly that. They're not really bothered about it. If you get it you get it seems to be the overriding opinion. I think it's coming from the small amount of actual deaths, especially in younger age ranges.. Friends of mine are seeing their livelihoods disappear, decades of savings shrivel... I think people will generally behave for another few weeks but after that it'll be more dangerous to keep people inside than letting them out.

They've got a point certainly, even if many will feel its premature. Where do we draw the line? A few weeks inside? OK. A few months? Hmmm. A year? Not happening, regardless of how many people die.

 

[Grinner]

I usually would but I absolutely love this guy.

The fecking Marsh family can eat a bag of dicks though.

He's doing great but it's just on saturation right now. Why not do a story on that poor pregnant nurse where you tell her life story and what she did for people. She gave so much.

 

[Pexbo]

He's doing great but it's just on saturation right now. Why not do a story on that poor pregnant nurse where you tell her life story and what she did for people. She gave so much.

I think it’s clearly a concerted effort by BBC news to keep things a bit lighter when we are already being pummelled with bad news every waking minute. Theyve even changed the theme music slightly so it’s less dark and dramatic.

It does get a bit much though. Dan and Naga are quite natural in their positive chitter chatter but Charlie Stayt can be a difficult watch as it comes across as sycophantic and forced.

 

[Feed Me]

I agree! That's why I'm saying we need to come up with a strategy very soon to allow this to pass through more of the population, with young people and women at the forefront.

After you, mate...

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

I think some of you may be interested in this...

https://www.mckinsey.com/business-f...nd-our-livelihoods-the-imperative-of-our-time

 

[Smores]

The care home numbers are going to be horrific when it all comes to light. It's hard to say whether the government could have protected them more.

Hancock now promising families can go into care homes and promising testing. You hope they've actually got the testing and PPE in place to facilitate that otherwise families will be getting mixed messages from government and their local home.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

The care home numbers are going to be horrific when it all comes to light. It's hard to say whether the government could have protected them more.

Hancock now promising families can go into care homes and promising testing. You hope they've actually got the testing and PPE in place to facilitate that otherwise families will be getting mixed messages from government and their local home.

My aunt and her wife run one in the North-East of England, they've been fecked really. Working 12hr shifts 6 days a week, sometimes 7, due to staff dropping like flies with illness. Some genuine, some they suspect weren't ill but just scared to go to work (understandable I guess). They lost, I think, something like 8-9 long-term residents all very old and all with heavy health issues. They only know 1-2 of them died of covid19 I think, the others is anyone's guess but probably likely to be the virus - they didn't get to find out. Apparently, things have now peaked there and they're now entering much calmer waters. Hopefully that's it for them.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The care home numbers are going to be horrific when it all comes to light. It's hard to say whether the government could have protected them more.

Hancock now promising families can go into care homes and promising testing. You hope they've actually got the testing and PPE in place to facilitate that otherwise families will be getting mixed messages from government and their local home.

I only found out yesterday that a lot of care home workers are on zero hour contracts. So will have been incentivised to keep coming into work even if they start feeling unwell. Absolutely shocking state of affairs.

Maybe one for the other thread but I hope that one of the positives coming out of this is an end to zero hour contracts.

 

[Igor Drefljak]

The story of the old man is great.
My only problem with it, is I can see somehow the government seeing it and thinking, well that 15m he's raise can now be used elsewhere, like bailing out our personal businesses.

(And I mean them taking 15m out of their own NHS fund)

 

[balaks]

I only found out yesterday that a lot of care home workers are on zero hour contracts. So will have been incentivised to keep coming into work even if they start feeling unwell. Absolutely shocking state of affairs.

Maybe one for the other thread but I hope that one of the positives coming out of this is an end to zero hour contracts.

Social Care generally has been on it's knees for years. Poorly paid staff on crap conditions doing what is a very difficult (but at times rewarding) job who feel underappreciated and undervalued. Care staff are some of the lowest paid workers in the UK - this all needs to be looked at. Personally I think they should do in England what we have done in Scotland and NI which is to integrate health and social care. No more council funding, bring them all into the NHS. I sincerely hope there is a pay review for all NHS and social care staff after all this is finished to pay them a fair wage - people just tend to say 'it's a vocation' and that people do these jobs out of the desire to care for people. That is all well and good but you need to value and pay them properly.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

The story of the old man is great.
My only problem with it, is I can see somehow the government seeing it and thinking, well that 15m he's raise can now be used elsewhere, like bailing out our personal businesses.

(And I mean them taking 15m out of their own NHS fund)

Yeah there's always gonna be some bait and switch going on unfortunately, scum the lot of them. How they can stand there issuing war-cries and bigging up the NHS when they have personally denied them pay-rises in the past makes me feel like going berzerker sometimes.

The old guy is a legend though, its a great story but my main gripe is........15m for what? What is that going to be used for? We're being told that the PPE/Ventilators etc simply arent there to purchase. So whats the 15m going to be spent on? I'd be very wary of who that gets handed over to.

 

[NinjaFletch]

The story of the old man is great.
My only problem with it, is I can see somehow the government seeing it and thinking, well that 15m he's raise can now be used elsewhere, like bailing out our personal businesses.

(And I mean them taking 15m out of their own NHS fund)

This will probably come across as dismissive of what he's done and I don't mean it to, but that won't happen because £15m is the sum total of feck all compared to the NHS budget; it's less than 1% of the total funding.

 

[Grinner]

It's not just the old boy, it's everybody who gave the money and I agree, how do you handle it? Do you just rock up to the Dept. of health with a cheque? feck that, they'd piss it away.

 

[Igor Drefljak]

This will probably come across as dismissive of what he's done and I don't mean it to, but that won't happen because £15m is the sum total of feck all compared to the NHS budget; it's less than 1% of the total funding.

That's a fair point, it is nothing but a drop in the ocean in comparisons.
I just feel like Boris and co could easily just give themselves a nice little payday or some bullshit

 

[balaks]

That's a fair point, it is nothing but a drop in the ocean in comparisons.
I just feel like Boris and co could easily just give themselves a nice little payday or some bullshit

If they made it clear that this money was being used exclusively to purchase PPE then that would be the best way to use it plus would be a bit of a morale booster.

 

[Simbo]

Reports would suggest the Chinese government covered up the spread and the doctors reporting the virus were closed down and now mysteriously have gone missing.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...19-and-its-apparent-cover-up-attempt-11966539

Yeh there is plenty of allegations being thrown around with out anything really to back them up, that article is another example.

There is a massive propaganda campaign going on at the moment against all things China, naturally China is responding in kind. So I'm just a bit wary of it all.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

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Angela Merkel telling it like it is. Loosening restrictions will be an incredibly challenging thing to do. Walking a tight-rope.

 

[sun_tzu]

Country	Population	Deaths Per Million
Spain	46 Million (approx)	402
Belgium	11 Million (approx)	383
Italy	60 Million (approx)	358
France	65 Million (approx)	263
UK	67 Million (approx)	190
Netherlands	17 Million (approx)	183
Germany	83 Million (approx)	83

Whilst its clear Germany stands out as having clearly managed the situation exceptionally well (at least so far) and of course although most countries seem to think they are at or just past peak there will be some further movement in the figures would it be fair to say that although the UK government has clearly made some (significant) errors (eg not participating in the ventilator scheme, testing of front line NHS staff, PPE ) overall they seem to be doing better than most comparable countries (i.e. EU countries with populations over 10 million and advanced healthcare systems)? at least using the metric of deaths per capita which I think ultimatley probably has to be the most comparable metric amongst nations (given there may be some discrepency over what deaths are linked to CV19 but overall would still seem most comparable)

Is Macron in trouble for his handling in France for example?
Also Belgium seems dramatically different from both Holland and France which seems hard to explain at least when thinking in geographic terms

 

[FireballXL5]

Hey everybody, Matt Hancock has badges!

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ny-badge-emblem-of-a-scamper-into-tigger-mode

 

[Wumminator]

Country	Population	Deaths Per Million
Spain	46 Million (approx)	402
Belgium	11 Million (approx)	383
Italy	60 Million (approx)	358
France	65 Million (approx)	263
UK	67 Million (approx)	190
Netherlands	17 Million (approx)	183
Germany	83 Million (approx)	83

Whilst its clear Germany stands out as having clearly managed the situation exceptionally well (at least so far) and of course although most countries seem to think they are at or just past peak there will be some further movement in the figures would it be fair to say that although the UK government has clearly made some (significant) errors (eg not participating in the ventilator scheme, testing of front line NHS staff, PPE ) overall they seem to be doing better than most comparable countries (i.e. EU countries with populations over 10 million and advanced healthcare systems)? at least using the metric of deaths per capita which I think ultimatley probably has to be the most comparable metric amongst nations (given there may be some discrepency over what deaths are linked to CV19 but overall would still seem most comparable)

Is Macron in trouble for his handling in France for example?
Also Belgium seems dramatically different from both Holland and France which seems hard to explain at least when thinking in geographic terms

Unless I am mistaken, we have got thousands to add to our totals due to the lack of care home figure currently available.

 

[spiriticon]

Tweet

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Angela Merkel telling it like it is. Loosening restrictions will be an incredibly challenging thing to do. Walking a tight-rope.

Angela Merkel is an absolute hero. Her true leadership skills shines through in this crisis.

 

[Smores]

Country	Population	Deaths Per Million
Spain	46 Million (approx)	402
Belgium	11 Million (approx)	383
Italy	60 Million (approx)	358
France	65 Million (approx)	263
UK	67 Million (approx)	190
Netherlands	17 Million (approx)	183
Germany	83 Million (approx)	83

Whilst its clear Germany stands out as having clearly managed the situation exceptionally well (at least so far) and of course although most countries seem to think they are at or just past peak there will be some further movement in the figures would it be fair to say that although the UK government has clearly made some (significant) errors (eg not participating in the ventilator scheme, testing of front line NHS staff, PPE ) overall they seem to be doing better than most comparable countries (i.e. EU countries with populations over 10 million and advanced healthcare systems)? at least using the metric of deaths per capita which I think ultimatley probably has to be the most comparable metric amongst nations (given there may be some discrepency over what deaths are linked to CV19 but overall would still seem most comparable)

Is Macron in trouble for his handling in France for example?
Also Belgium seems dramatically different from both Holland and France which seems hard to explain at least when thinking in geographic terms

You'd have to compare at comparable points in time rather than just any given date. We're weeks behind Italy for example so it's meaningless.

 

[balaks]

Unless I am mistaken, we have got thousands to add to our totals due to the lack of care home figure currently available.

Correct, sadly our death total will likely rise by at least 50% once this is added in.

 

[sun_tzu]

Correct, sadly our death total will likely rise by at least 50% once this is added in.

where are you getting your figures that there has been more than 6,500 care home deaths?

 

[Pagh Wraith]

Exactly that. They're not really bothered about it. If you get it you get it seems to be the overriding opinion. I think it's coming from the small amount of actual deaths, especially in younger age ranges.. Friends of mine are seeing their livelihoods disappear, decades of savings shrivel... I think people will generally behave for another few weeks but after that it'll be more dangerous to keep people inside than letting them out.

It's the same thing here but for slightly different reasons. Nobody in my circle of friends or family has really been affected by the situation with everyone either still going to the office as if nothing happened or working from home (some on short-time working). And in my case, I work around 30% of my normal hours (being a freelancer) but received a massive cheque from the government that more than covers my losses. So I have a lot of free time and with the weather being brilliant for the last few weeks, this feels like one big holiday more than anything. This thread is actually serving as an anchor pulling me back into reality sometimes and reminding me of some of the heart-breaking stories out there. The general mood on here (perhaps due to the UK being hit harder) is way different to what I see every day. Adherence to social distancing rules from young people is definitely waning, subjectively (I posted a photo of people sitting in the parks picknicking and drinking a few days ago) but also objectively (movement tracking is way up from two weeks ago). So for that reason alone it was very imporant for the government to slighly ease the restrictions yesterday. People need to see a path out of this if you want to ensure they follow the rules.

 

[spiriticon]

where are you getting your figures that there has been more than 6,500 care home deaths?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ronavirus-why-we-dont-know-true-uk-death-toll

 

[balaks]

where are you getting your figures that there has been more than 6,500 care home deaths?

I work in the sector in NI and I know for a fact that the amount of people dieing in care homes here COVID related is at least 50% of what is being reported in NI each day. Not saying that is the case around the rest of the UK but when I see our numbers as being 6-10 each day but I know of at least 2 or 3 in care homes dieing just in my immediate area on the same day I dread to think what the real numbers are all over the country.

 

[NinjaFletch]

That's a fair point, it is nothing but a drop in the ocean in comparisons.
I just feel like Boris and co could easily just give themselves a nice little payday or some bullshit

Well NHS charities trust will have to keep a record of where it's going, so that won't happen!

But aye, I do feel a bit like that. Donations towards the NHS are trying to solve a political (and as we've seen over the past few weeks) and ideological failing with charity, but it's difficult to see how they can begin to scratch the surface of what the healthcare service has been saying they need.

To me it seems a better use of money to donate towards smaller charities where that money would make a huge difference and then put political pressure on the government to fund the NHS properly than to chuck it all into the NHS pot, but hey I was always taught charity is personal and I'm sure it will be put to good use and will make a difference so I don't wanna be snooty about people trying to do good.

 

[blue blue]

Yeh there is plenty of allegations being thrown around with out anything really to back them up, that article is another example.

There is a massive propaganda campaign going on at the moment against all things China, naturally China is responding in kind. So I'm just a bit wary of it all.

Yet you fail to substantiate your claims.

Why are you wary if you have no proof? It is possible that China is partly to blame for the spread of this deadly virus, is it not?

 

[Di Maria's angel]

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Angela Merkel telling it like it is. Loosening restrictions will be an incredibly challenging thing to do. Walking a tight-rope.

They've done exceptionally well but there's no way there won't be another lockdown after the restrictions are loosened. Many are in for a rude awakening.

 

[sun_tzu]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ronavirus-why-we-dont-know-true-uk-death-toll

I work in the sector in NI and I know for a fact that the amount of people dieing in care homes here COVID related is at least 50% of what is being reported in NI each day. Not saying that is the case around the rest of the UK but when I see our numbers as being 6-10 each day but I know of at least 2 or 3 in care homes dieing just in my immediate area on the same day I dread to think what the real numbers are all over the country.

Thanks... seems the 50% is in line with other countries as well then - some of which do report and some dont - which of course adds to confusion even more

How do other countries count care home deaths?

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We cannot directly compare care home deaths in the UK with those in other countries as there are different ways of recording these deaths.

In Ireland, France and Germany, official data on deaths includes those in care settings. Of Irish deaths up until 11 April, 54% had occurred in care homes, according to the country’s chief medical officer. Figures released by the French public health authority show 45% of deaths took place in care homes.

Removing care home fatalities from the French statistics reveals that the UK hospital death toll is higher than France’s – which government briefings have failed to note when stating that Britain is behind France in official cumulative death figures.
Italy and Spain, by contrast, do not report deaths in care settings regularly. In Italy, best estimates were based on a survey of 10% of care homes in the country. The death rate in this sample was extrapolated to reach an estimate for all care homes, which suggests 53% of coronavirus deaths were happening in care. In Spain, estimates based on regional totals submitted to the government also suggest those in nursing homes accounted for more than half of deaths.

 

[blue blue]

One reason for extra capacity is in case you need it, in particular in case you need extra ICU beds. The other reason for having extra capacity is because the NHS isn't currently "business as usual".

A lot of their normal work is currently postponed or being turned into phone consultations and advice only hands off sessions. Cancer treatments are being delayed (understandably so as those patients will often be in a high risk covid group). Cancer referrals for diagnostic tests were operating way below normal levels.

Elective surgery like cataracts and joint replacements are on hold. Some A&E and other departments are already reporting that patients with serious (non-covid) symptoms are coming to them late, and sometimes too late.

Excess capacity, more PPE and changes in organisation/locations to allow for better social distancing are all part of the mix. Not just for getting through this covid peak, for getting through the normal ongoing health care needs that still keep requiring attention alongside the pandemic.

This makes sense and hopefully the rest of the NHS service can get back to normal ASAP.

Thanks.

 

[Feed Me]

I only found out yesterday that a lot of care home workers are on zero hour contracts. So will have been incentivised to keep coming into work even if they start feeling unwell. Absolutely shocking state of affairs.

Maybe one for the other thread but I hope that one of the positives coming out of this is an end to zero hour contracts.

A high proportion of delivery drivers are also on zero hours contracts or ‘franchise’ type arrangements that rob them of basic rights like sick pay. It’s a shocking situation which leaves people in a heartbreaking position of having to play roulette with their health because they can’t afford to lose their jobs. There’s a shit tonne of ills in society that I would hope will get seriously reviewed once we are over the hump of this but I won’t hold my breath.

 

[balaks]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/16/number-coronavirus-pandemic

Quite grim reading here but sadly I suspect very accurate. This is going to go on for a very long time.

 

[arnie_ni]

I work in the sector in NI and I know for a fact that the amount of people dieing in care homes here COVID related is at least 50% of what is being reported in NI each day. Not saying that is the case around the rest of the UK but when I see our numbers as being 6-10 each day but I know of at least 2 or 3 in care homes dieing just in my immediate area on the same day I dread to think what the real numbers are all over the country.

Yea my local newspaper in omagh has reported a few deaths but theres only been 4 or 5 deaths related to covid19 reported in the whole of tyrone. So 50 percent wouldnt shock me

 

[arnie_ni]

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Angela Merkel telling it like it is. Loosening restrictions will be an incredibly challenging thing to do. Walking a tight-rope.

Came to post this. Maybe im being stupid but...

Surely the only reason they have got the infection rate to 1 is social distancing and therefore loosening those restrictions will increase in to 1.1 1.2 1.3 etc that she has basically said will ruin their health service?

Or how else do you reduce the infection rate across the board like that?

 

[Sarni]

So seems like half the world is in consensus now that lockdowns/restrictions will have to continue for a long time.

 

[Stick]

I wonder what plan they have for public transport. Can you open restaurants or cinemas who could sit customers a metre away from each other yet let millions of workers sit close for hours on buses and trains. I use 2 buses and a train every day to get my hospital I work at. No chance of social distancing, it's difficult to do that now even with so few passengers on the bus. How would they even achieve this, have more buses/trains and have more staff delegating a certain amount of passengers per bus/train.

Keep as much of the folk working from home where possible maybe? Those that can should cycle and permits on driving to work so as not to create chaos in traffic. Can run more buses more frequently then.

 

[balaks]

Came to post this. Maybe im being stupid but...

Surely the only reason they have got the infection rate to 1 is social distancing and therefore loosening those restrictions will increase in to 1.1 1.2 1.3 etc that she has basically said will ruin their health service?

Or how else do you reduce the infection rate across the board like that?

Yeah that is the problem we face. How do you relax social distancing measures without causing a massive spike in infections?