Could they void the PL due to the Coronavirus? | No | Resuming June 17th

[TheLord]

1) Money hungry UEFA wants “clubs and the European Leagues umbrella group should put pressure on all nations to restart football by the middle of June.”

2) Money hungry players, by in large, do not want any sort of wage deduction or deferral.

3) Money hungry Premier League is keen on a quick resumption.

4) Confused fans can’t think straight because of their club loyalties.

5) The media is coming up with preposterous imaginary stories every day.

6) And now the Culture Secretary Dowden says, “I have said to the Premier League, I think it wouldn’t send the best signal if they were one of the first major sports to resume behind closed doors and the public couldn’t have access to it.” He wants the Premier League to air all (or most) of their remaining fixtures for free. The Premier League bosses (probably furious) cannot speak out the obvious, “Bloody Secretary, the only reason we are keen to resume the games so soon despite enormous health risks is money.”

With such a wonderful hexagonal plot, you could make a movie or a Netflix series around these developments.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Surprise surprise a manager who will benefit from a void has come out with that.

I'm sure Moyes means well but would he be saying the same if he was in Wilder's shoes? To put it diplomatically, I have my doubts.

He’s actually right.

it relies on testing, and having support of medical staff. How can you do that if the tests are required by the NHS.

Furthermore, the questions of squad depth and costs of players wages has been raised by the article - which I have been banging on about for weeks, not for the PL but for the lower leagues.

it’s a shame if didn’t fit your agenda (for you), but to marginalise the issues and challenges would be utter nonsense

 

[Sandikan]

Except there won't be any relegation & promotion if the season gets voided. How would the structure look then ?

The same as now.
Rather then adding teams to The top flight

 

[MysticRed]

So you don't think null and void treats every team equally? You're talking about the affect again after the event. That's irrelevant.

Sorry could only respond after midnight as only allowed 3 posts a day.

Let’s just complete the season (whenever that is I say). We can all manage what that means for 2020/21 and beyond. That for me will be the fairness option no matter how difficult that might be. Hell we planned to move a WC to winter after all.

 

[Dancfc]

He’s actually right.

it relies on testing, and having support of medical staff. How can you do that if the tests are required by the NHS.

Furthermore, the questions of squad depth and costs of players wages has been raised by the article - which I have been banging on about for weeks, not for the PL but for the lower leagues.

it’s a shame if didn’t fit your agenda (for you), but to marginalise the issues and challenges would be utter nonsense

I never said he wasn't, I'm just saying he likely wouldn't be saying it if he was in Wilder's position.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I never said he wasn't, I'm just saying he likely wouldn't be saying it if he was in Wilder's position.

I’m sure any manager would be putting the health of the country first. So what if that conflicts with a league position. Maybe that’s why he hasn’t come out with “the league must be completed blah blah” because he would sound like a tool.

 

[christinaa]

National League has been declared none and void,

 

[stevoc]

Sorry could only respond after midnight as only allowed 3 posts a day.

Let’s just complete the season (whenever that is I say). We can all manage what that means for 2020/21 and beyond. That for me will be the fairness option no matter how difficult that might be. Hell we planned to move a WC to winter after all.

That is still the best option but there will be a time limit on it.

 

[Redcy]

Sorry could only respond after midnight as only allowed 3 posts a day.

Let’s just complete the season (whenever that is I say). We can all manage what that means for 2020/21 and beyond. That for me will be the fairness option no matter how difficult that might be. Hell we planned to move a WC to winter after all.

Because once it means that next season can’t be played safely it becomes a matter of whether finishing this year is financially more viable than completing next year.
Hint: it isn’t.
Ideally we would play out all teams.

 

[Redcy]

He’s actually right.

it relies on testing, and having support of medical staff. How can you do that if the tests are required by the NHS.

Furthermore, the questions of squad depth and costs of players wages has been raised by the article - which I have been banging on about for weeks, not for the PL but for the lower leagues.

it’s a shame if didn’t fit your agenda (for you), but to marginalise the issues and challenges would be utter nonsense

the issue around testing is massive. All the rapid tests have poor accuracy, the full tests are needed by key workers. thus is why resuming even bcd is so hard atm. I think the gov planned on having decent rapid testing which hasn’t panned out.

 

[arnie_ni]

I mean they could make an exception with extreme testing but I think the social distancing that will be in place after the lockdown will ban crowds of 20+ or something really low, you would wonder how matches of 30-70k people can start up again. Maybe they will only allow 50% capacity with spaces between spectators. Honestly wouldn’t surprise me that. They will do everything to bring football back once the lockdown ends.

They cant allow 50 percent capacity at football matches then not expect people to flock to the pubs or something similar.

You cant begin making exceptions like that then expect people to follow it in other situations.

They wont do it

 

[TheReligion]

Sorry could only respond after midnight as only allowed 3 posts a day.

Let’s just complete the season (whenever that is I say). We can all manage what that means for 2020/21 and beyond. That for me will be the fairness option no matter how difficult that might be. Hell we planned to move a WC to winter after all.

Of course everyone wants to complete the season there just has to be a cut off for it. We can't be still trying to finish this off into next year. That's obvious no?

 

[Redcy]

T

They cant allow 50 percent capacity at football matches then not expect people to flock to the pubs or something similar.

You cant begin making exceptions like that then expect people to follow it in other situations.

They wont do it

the issue is simpler than that. You can’t put people in grounds due to access issues, fire and safety risks, etc

 

[TheReligion]

Surprise surprise a manager who will benefit from a void has come out with that.

I'm sure Moyes means well but would he be saying the same if he was in Wilder's shoes? To put it diplomatically, I have my doubts.

Irrespective of who it benefits is all of that wrong then?

 

[TheReligion]

When a new season commences we all start on equal footing with zero points. What happens after that is that every club, team, & player, is fundamentally in some sort of control of their respective club's destiny for that season. So the bolded bit isn't really true is it ? You have some teams who do really well, some just OK, & some very poorly. Therefore, by voiding the season you're effectively saying it never existed, so those who didn't make the full use of the control they had get another free hit, whilst the likes of Leeds & West Brom who have battled their way into a great position for automatic promotion get penalized & have to start all over again next season in The Championship. I'm pretty sure this narrative of treating all clubs the same would die a very quick death in the courtroom.

This makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[arnie_ni]

T

the issue is simpler than that. You can’t put people in grounds due to access issues, fire and safety risks, etc

I know that.

I was just putting that suggestion to bed

 

[TheLord]

I mean they could make an exception with extreme testing but I think the social distancing that will be in place after the lockdown will ban crowds of 20+ or something really low, you would wonder how matches of 30-70k people can start up again. Maybe they will only allow 50% capacity with spaces between spectators. Honestly wouldn’t surprise me that. They will do everything to bring football back once the lockdown ends.

That is possible in fantasy movies, not in the current situation. You post is so far from reality that I won’t even make the effort of explaining why.

Let’s just complete the season (whenever that is I say). We can all manage what that means for 2020/21 and beyond. That for me will be the fairness option no matter how difficult that might be.

As I see it, we are currently hovering along the middle of a straight line that has two extreme ends: the fairest conclusion and the most profitable conclusion. The fairest conclusion is continuing this season till it concludes, however long it takes - July, October, November or whenever - with total disregard of the new season, and accepting that season 20/21 will be curtailed. The most profitable conclusion is terminating this season as soon as possible and start preparing for the next, so that the more profitable season (20/21 vs 19/20) is least affected. Unfortunately with this virus that refuses to relent, we have “almost” reached the stage where there is no middle-ground, and the European Leagues will have to choose one of the two extreme options. .

There is no “fairness” in wars. Please drop the notion that this multi-billion pound entertainment industry will prioritise fairness over sensible economics.

 

[GaryLifo]

I'm happy to admit that for purely hating Liverpool FC and everything they stand for - the whining, the hubris, the backing of a racist because he was their best player, Jordan Henderson's face, The way Jordan Henderson runs, Klopp's fake smile of disbelief as one of his players gets booked after committing 'only' their 6th cynical counter-attack stopping foul of the game, Mo Salah's hair, Mane's vacant expression, 'the bestest most special fans/ songs / stadium / badge / socks / pitch'; Ian Rush 90+4; next year is our year, backpassing in the 70's and 80's; 'come back when you've won it 18 times' hand-held banners (lol); Everything about Steve McMahon and everything he ever did; KKK; John Aldridge on twitter; 'they dared to dream - the historic year Liverpool chucked away the league title with 4 games to go' by Paul fecking shit scouse cnut tomlinson; Fowler and his 5 fingers; their inbred fans who now hold up 6 fingers on one hand -

I really really really hope that the season is voided with nobody winning the league this year,

Couldn't care less about fair or not fair. I'd even take United being relegated as a condition of the voiding, as the enjoyment I'd get from all the months and years of scouse whining would more than make up for a season in the championship.

 

[Offside]

That is possible in fantasy movies, not in the current situation. You post is so far from reality that I won’t even make the effort of explaining why.

As I see it, we are currently hovering along the middle of a straight line that has two extreme ends: the fairest conclusion and the most profitable conclusion. The fairest conclusion is continuing this season till it concludes, however long it takes - July, October, November or whenever - with total disregard of the new season, and accepting that season 20/21 will be curtailed. The most profitable conclusion is terminating this season as soon as possible and start preparing for the next, so that the more profitable season (20/21 vs 19/20) is least affected. Unfortunately with this virus that refuses to relent, we have “almost” reached the stage where there is no middle-ground, and the European Leagues will have to choose one of the two extreme options. .

There is no “fairness” in wars. Please drop the notion that this multi-billion pound entertainment industry will prioritise fairness over sensible economics.

The idea of 50% capacity is fantasy but my point is they will do anything to continue the season once the lockdown ends even with social distancing. The idea that the Premier League will consider cancelling anything as sensible economics is ridiculous. I’m saying it wouldn’t surprise me if they suggested something mad like 2m between every spectator and testing of every player/TV crew person before every game.

 

[Phurry]

The idea of 50% capacity is fantasy but my point is they will do anything to continue the season once the lockdown ends even with social distancing. The idea that the Premier League will consider cancelling anything as sensible economics is ridiculous. I’m saying it wouldn’t surprise me if they suggested something mad like 2m between every spectator and testing of every player/TV crew person before every game.

It’s really not hard to understand this, spacing people out by 2m in the stands is fine but how do you expect them to get there?
Everybody will be passing through ingress/egress points, things like handrails on stairs, turnstiles etc. COVID19 sits on those surfaces waiting to find a new host.
What happens if the stadium needs to be evacuated? How do you think the 2m spacing will go then when everyone is trying to get out in a hurry?

If you’re going to let spectators in, then there’s not really a lot of difference between having the stadium half full or completely full because of the above.

EDIT: not directed at you, just infuriates me the number of people that are talking about letting crowds in.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Even if Liverpool do get the title given to them no one will care. There will be no parade, very little coverage of it and frankly it’s just completely irrelevant right now.

It will surely feel very hollow to the players.

 

[Redcy]

Even if Liverpool do get the title given to them no one will care. There will be no parade, very little coverage of it and frankly it’s just completely irrelevant right now.

It will surely feel very hollow to the players.

I guess its 50/50 everyone will treat it as "that year", which is probably very unfair, but they will maybe still get a title. The Liverpool media mafia will go nuts, and remember they managed to get entered into the CL that year by the FA. So I am sure teh FA will be desperate to give it to them. Null and void would be genuinely the "fairest" solution. I don't think the FA have the balls for it.

 

[Megadrive Man]

Surprise surprise a manager who will benefit from a void has come out with that.

I'm sure Moyes means well but would he be saying the same if he was in Wilder's shoes? To put it diplomatically, I have my doubts.

It's almost like nobody at West Ham (including Moyes himself) trusts Moyes to keep them up?

 

[RobinLFC]

It’s really not hard to understand this, spacing people out by 2m in the stands is fine but how do you expect them to get there?
Everybody will be passing through ingress/egress points, things like handrails on stairs, turnstiles etc. COVID19 sits on those surfaces waiting to find a new host.
What happens if the stadium needs to be evacuated? How do you think the 2m spacing will go then when everyone is trying to get out in a hurry?

If you’re going to let spectators in, then there’s not really a lot of difference between having the stadium half full or completely full because of the above.

EDIT: not directed at you, just infuriates me the number of people that are talking about letting crowds in.

It's not far fetched at all, do you expect them to go from no fans to 70k fans at Old Trafford once it's safe to have attendance again? No, it will happen gradually so 50% capacity allowed is something that will happen in the future. Just like having schools at half capacity will happen, having workfloors at half capacity, you name it. It will all happen in different phases. There is a gigantic difference half full or completely full, can't even begin to describe how foolish it is to think otherwise.

Also I could reach my seat at Anfield without touching anything with my hands, let alone all the things you mentioned. People adapt to situations, and will be more careful and vigilant in stadiums. Simply wear gloves, for example. It's already happening in supermarkets and other places which are being kept open during the lockdown. And no, the social distancing can't always be kept in place in emergency situations, but that's the same for literally every place.

If you follow your "oh you can't do that because X or Y might happen" reasoning than it's just better to keep all of humanity in their own house for the next few years. Which won't happen.

 

[Sandikan]

Even if Liverpool do get the title given to them no one will care. There will be no parade, very little coverage of it and frankly it’s just completely irrelevant right now.

It will surely feel very hollow to the players.

It's certainly the least satisfactory way ever to win it.
If they weren't generally such a hateful lot you'd almost feel sorry for them

 

[Seven Seas Sardines]

It's certainly the least satisfactory way ever to win it.
If they weren't generally such a hateful lot you'd almost feel sorry for them

The most glorious silver lining of this situation.

Their best case scenario: a hollow check mark in the history books and shouting YAWN from their windows.
Worst case: losing the title creates a complete implosion of mentality and identity. Mané goes to Real and VVD/Firmino/Salah all past their peaks in a team which will take another 30 years to recover.

 

[11101]

I guess its 50/50 everyone will treat it as "that year", which is probably very unfair, but they will maybe still get a title. The Liverpool media mafia will go nuts, and remember they managed to get entered into the CL that year by the FA. So I am sure teh FA will be desperate to give it to them. Null and void would be genuinely the "fairest" solution. I don't think the FA have the balls for it.

They will, but nobody will be listening. Out of sight, out of mind. If we don't have football going on, people won't be interested in hearing about it. They can complain all they want but until this virus is over anything to do with football will be relegated to the back pages.

 

[Redcy]

Simply wear gloves, for example. It's already happening in supermarkets and other places which are being kept open during the lockdown. And no, the social distancing can't always be kept in place in emergency situations, but that's the same for literally every place.

Worst advice people were given was wearing gloves. It offers no protection in reality if not done correctly, in fact it spreads bugs as much as hands if not more.

The issue is that if I go to a supermarket there will not be 25000 people trying to leave all at the same time. There is no way they can make 25k people leaving a stadium safe. Either its safe or its not for full attendance.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

It's not far fetched at all, do you expect them to go from no fans to 70k fans at Old Trafford once it's safe to have attendance again? No, it will happen gradually so 50% capacity allowed is something that will happen in the future. Just like having schools at half capacity will happen, having workfloors at half capacity, you name it. It will all happen in different phases. There is a gigantic difference half full or completely full, can't even begin to describe how foolish it is to think otherwise.

Also I could reach my seat at Anfield without touching anything with my hands, let alone all the things you mentioned. People adapt to situations, and will be more careful and vigilant in stadiums. Simply wear gloves, for example. It's already happening in supermarkets and other places which are being kept open during the lockdown. And no, the social distancing can't always be kept in place in emergency situations, but that's the same for literally every place.

If you follow your "oh you can't do that because X or Y might happen" reasoning than it's just better to keep all of humanity in their own house for the next few years. Which won't happen.

I suppose everyone queues in a nice orderly fashion when leaving at Anfield do they? 30k of people all leaving at the same time, pushing, showing, all trying to get out. Sounds like a great idea.

I do think we will see a staged return to full capacity ( I suppose you could start with games at the Eithad first) but it will need to be as safe for 30k people as for 60k people due to interactions in getting into the ground, getting out and getting on transport. Effectively it will be a PR exercise, as just having 50% of the crowd would clearly spread the virus.

how is not obvious that If you need to wear gloves, masks and not touch anything to watch a football match - the simple answer is not to go.

Do you really trust the typical football supporter to actually wash their hands when they go for a piss, not to jump up and down and hug people when someone scores, not to have spit coming out of their mouths when they are abusing the opposition. I don’t.

 

[Judge Red]

Champions League qualification doesn’t really matter because it might not even return before the second half of next year and if it does it will be behind closed doors and is basically gonna suck.

 

[RedDevilUnited369]

Champions League qualification doesn’t really matter because it might not even return before the second half of next year and if it does it will be behind closed doors and is basically gonna suck.

It.Matters.

 

[TheReligion]

Saw an interview with Liverpool fans and their Mayor. Claiming it's a disgrace the game with Athletico went ahead and demanding an investigation. Surely LFC could have requested it was played behind closed doors like many other European games that round?

Also heard one Liverpool fan saying he felt bad as he went to the game and he was symptomatic with the virus. Feels certain he'd spread it around the place.

This alone is reason enough football won't happen any time soon in the UK.

 

[RobinLFC]

Worst advice people were given was wearing gloves. It offers no protection in reality if not done correctly, in fact it spreads bugs as much as hands if not more.

The issue is that if I go to a supermarket there will not be 25000 people trying to leave all at the same time. There is no way they can make 25k people leaving a stadium safe. Either its safe or its not for full attendance.

It offers a lot of protection if done correctly. It's not that hard to advice people on how to do that. It's as if you think no measures will be in place anymore by then? As if they'd let all people leave at the same time? There's plenty of options to let them leave in an orderly fashion, with respect to social distancing. If you don't have the patience to wait 15-30min to exit the stadium, just watch the game at home.

I suppose everyone queues in a nice orderly fashion when leaving at Anfield do they? 30k of people all leaving at the same time, pushing, showing, all trying to get out. Sounds like a great idea.

They will have to if they wanna attend the game, simple as.

Do you really trust the typical football supporter to actually wash their hands when they go for a piss, not to jump up and down and hug people when someone scores, not to have spit coming out of their mouths when they are abusing the opposition. I don’t.

Surveillance at the toilets, stewards in the stadium. You don't want an idiot hugging others (if there's anyone close enough to you to hug anyway), so it's just a case of informing people about their behaviour inside stadiums. If they can't adhere to the rules, they're not welcome. That's the way it's gonna be forward for watching football games in the near future. It's not nearly important enough to risk another hike in cases, so if people are stupid enough to act as they please inside a stadium, it'll be back to no fans soon enough after that.

 

[Klopper76]

German football is going to start up again mid May if the government gives the green light. They've handled it much better in terms of testing though. Four times as many done compared to the UK.

 

[Klopper76]

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[Member 101269]

Worst advice people were given was wearing gloves. It offers no protection in reality if not done correctly, in fact it spreads bugs as much as hands if not more.

The issue is that if I go to a supermarket there will not be 25000 people trying to leave all at the same time. There is no way they can make 25k people leaving a stadium safe. Either its safe or its not for full attendance.

You should like the government: I’ll rephrase you statement. Gloves provide protection, but the population can’t be trusted to take them off correctly or no touch their faces. The population can be trusted with advise not to touch their faces and wash hands..

Moving on from redcy..

TheLord is right; fairness by the measure of completing 201920 with current squads is over.

What I’m seeing is preparation for distance working continuing beyond September, not just Organization but governments using temporary measures for businesses from September right through until September 2021 do that business can continue across the globe..

I’m also hearing other stuff..

Stay safe.. don’t be a sheep

 

[Pagh Wraith]

Bundesliga CEO Seifert hold a press coference earlier following a meeting with all 36 clubs. Only English-language coverage so far: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...bosses-sign-9-return-25-000-tests-needed.html

 

[UweBein]

German football is going to start up again mid May if the government gives the green light. They've handled it much better in terms of testing though. Four times as many done compared to the UK.

Yes. They also have the political support of the two biggest states in Germany. It‘s a big mistake , but they will go ahead with it.

 

[UncleBob]

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Essentially, UEFA are desperate for the seasons to be concluded.

The ideal scenario, should the pandemic situation permit it, is to have the currently suspended domestic competitions completed enabling football clubs to qualify for UEFA club competitions on sporting merit in their original format. Should this outcome not be possible, in particular due to calendar issues, it would be preferable that suspended domestic competitions would restart with a different format in a manner which would still facilitate clubs to qualify on sporting merit.

While using best efforts to complete the domestic competitions, National Associations and/or Leagues might have legitimate reasons to prematurely terminate their domestic competitions, in particular in the following cases:

• existence of an official order prohibiting sports events so that the domestic competitions cannot be completed before a date that would make it possible to complete the current season in good time before the next season to start.

• insurmountable economic problems which make finishing the season impossible because it would put at risk the long-term financial stability of the domestic competition and/or clubs.

If a domestic competition is prematurely terminated for legitimate reasons in accordance with the above conditions, UEFA would require the National Association concerned to select clubs for the UEFA club competitions 2020/21 based on sporting merit in the 2019/20 domestic competitions:

• the procedure for selecting clubs should be based on objective, transparent and non-discriminatory principles. National Associations and Leagues, should otherwise have the ability to decide the final positions in their domestic competitions, having regard to the specific circumstances of each competition;

• the final determination of eligible places for the UEFA club competitions should be confirmed by the relevant competent bodies at domestic level.

UEFA reserves the right to refuse or evaluate the admission to any club proposed by a National Association from a prematurely terminated domestic competition in particular where:

• the domestic competitions have not been prematurely terminated based on the reasons given in these UEFA guidelines or on the basis of any other legitimate public health reasons;

• the clubs were selected pursuant to a procedure which was not objective, transparent and non-discriminatory so that the selected clubs could not be considered as having been qualified on sporting merit;

• there is a public perception of unfairness in the qualification of the club.

 

[Dumbstar]

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Perfect thanks. Here's the prudent points:

If a domestic competition is prematurely terminated for legitimate reasons in accordance with the above conditions, UEFA would require the National Association concerned to select clubs for the UEFA club competitions 2020/21 based on sporting merit in the 2019/20 domestic competitions:

• the procedure for selecting clubs should be based on objective, transparent and non-discriminatory principles. National Associations and Leagues, should otherwise have the ability to decide the final positions in their domestic competitions, having regard to the specific circumstances of each competition;