UEFA: abandoned leagues go on points per game or current position.

[Lentwood]

I'm not so sure about that. I reckon they might if they have a Poch/Kane deal in the wings - which I think they do. .

We could have a Pochettino plus Messi plus Saul plus Kane deal on the table....we're not about to let Ole leave just as we finally begin to show progress after five years of absolute garbage and terrible leadership across the club (players, coaches, managers, board)

We're arguably making even better decisions now than we were in the final few years of SAFs tenure when we managed to squeeze the last bits of talent out of our older players rather than replace them

 

[Pexbo]

Reposting in this thread:

This is an absolutely shit idea. Look at the position of the teams we are yet to play:

United:

Tottenham = 8
Sheffield = 7
Norwich = 20
Brighton = 15
Bournemouth = 18
Villa = 19
Southampton = 14
Palace = 11
West Ham = 16
Leicester = 3

Average = 13.1
Top 6 left to play: 1
Rivals for CL spot: 1
Bottom 6 left to play: 6

Then Chelsea:

Villa = 19
City = 2
Leicester = 3
West Ham = 16
Watford = 17
Palace = 11
Sheffield United = 7
Norwich = 20
Liverpool = 1
Wolves = 6

Average = 10.2
Top 6 left to play: 4
Rivals for CL spot: 2
Bottom 6 left to play: 4


Leicester:

Watford = 17
Chelsea = 3
Brighton = 15
Everton = 12
Palace = 11
Arsenal = 9
Bournemouth = 18
Sheffield United = 7
Tottenham = 8
United = 5

Average = 10.3
Top 6 left to play: 2
Rivals for CL spot: 2
Bottom 6 left to play: 3

 

[Kostov]

Doesn't make sense. Are they going to relegate teams based on coefficients too?

What's playing in the CL got to do with who gets relegated from the English Premier?

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

With the financial implications that Covid19 has had on football, are they still likely to still go ahead and give City a public spanking for financial reasons? I imagine they'd defer it until normality resumes, but I'm basing that on absolutely nothing.

Though the CL places aren't the biggest issue here for me. It's teams getting relegated after only 29 games (28 for Villa). That is fecked. It's seriously tight down at the bottom. The bottom 7 or 8 are all at risk. Championship is the same, 2 points separating 17th and 22nd.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

What's playing in the CL got to do with who gets relegated from the English Premier?

Doesn’t make sense to accelerate the progress of one side of the table and disregard the other.

 

[stevoc]

With all this talk of sporting integrity theres no way they can decide titles, Euro places and relegations with a points per game system, that would be ridiculous. Thats basically like simulating a season on FIFA.

If they're going to do that why stop there lets just do the same for the entirety of next season as well and it solves the logistics of starting and completing a new season during this pandemic.

 

[Kostov]

Doesn’t make sense to accelerate the progress of one side of the table and disregard the other.

That's ok but it's totally irrelevant to the CL compettition at the end of the day.

 

[Grande]

With the financial implications that Covid19 has had on football, are they still likely to still go ahead and give City a public spanking for financial reasons? I imagine they'd defer it until normality resumes, but I'm basing that on absolutely nothing.

Though the CL places aren't the biggest issue here for me. It's teams getting relegated after only 29 games (28 for Villa). That is fecked. It's seriously tight down at the bottom. The bottom 7 or 8 are all at risk. Championship is the same, 2 points separating 17th and 22nd.

I’m with you. I think the FA will find a way to conclude the season with or without more games being played, so that Liverpool are awarded the PL title (which I believe everyone knows is just right), and so that the issues of promotion/relegation are handled in a way most can say is fair. UEFA will find some way to pick their invitees for the next CL and Europa league one way or another, but FA’s concern will and should mainly be the many teams whose livelihood depend to a huge degree on wether they survive or make the push up to the economic honey pot that is the PL.

 

[sun_tzu]

So if they dont get to finish the games presumably the league cup and FA cup places get put into the league as well

so if city get their ban suspended we have
CL = Liverpool, City, Leicester, Chelsea
Europa = United, Wolves and Sheffield United

But if City get banned from european competition (presumably banned from the Europa as well as the CL) we get
CL = Liverpool, Leicester, Chelsea, United
Europa = Wolves Sheffiled United and if its points per game Arsenal - but if its current standings its Spurs

Unless They give the last Europa place to Villa (who will also be relegated) for loosing the league cup final to City?

it is possible in theory that City, Arsenal and Spurs would have no european football next season

Also in spain Athletico Madrid will not get CL foorball if the league ends ... fire sale time

 

[Jeppers7]

Reposting in this thread:

This is an absolutely shit idea. Look at the position of the teams we are yet to play:

United:

Tottenham = 8
Sheffield = 7
Norwich = 20
Brighton = 15
Bournemouth = 18
Villa = 19
Southampton = 14
Palace = 11
West Ham = 16
Leicester = 3

Average = 13.1
Top 6 left to play: 1
Rivals for CL spot: 1
Bottom 6 left to play: 6

Then Chelsea:

Villa = 19
City = 2
Leicester = 3
West Ham = 16
Watford = 17
Palace = 11
Sheffield United = 7
Norwich = 20
Liverpool = 1
Wolves = 6

Average = 10.2
Top 6 left to play: 4
Rivals for CL spot: 2
Bottom 6 left to play: 4


Leicester:

Watford = 17
Chelsea = 3
Brighton = 15
Everton = 12
Palace = 11
Arsenal = 9
Bournemouth = 18
Sheffield United = 7
Tottenham = 8
United = 5

Average = 10.3
Top 6 left to play: 2
Rivals for CL spot: 2
Bottom 6 left to play: 3

This was my first thought....there's no way to take into account the quality of the teams you've faced in comparison with your rivals. Our run in is very favourable due to the teams we've already faced.

 

[Acole9]

I think the best thing to do is to make the season null and void then start a fresh in September or whenever it's safe.

 

[cyberman]

Sam Lee thinks the ban will be upheld based on who he is talking to

 

[Snafu17]

I'd prefer it, if they just did some sort of playoffs for the contentious positions. Not being able to finish the season is one thing, but the playoffs are like 6 extra games (assuming you take 4 teams for the CL places and 4 teams for the relegation), all easily done on one location in a few a days. If we're ready to start the next season at some point then there's no real reason why they couldn't be played a week before. It keeps a lot more "sporting integrity" than PPG. Hell, they could even be used a trial to determine if everyone is ready to begin the season.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Honestly points per game would make a mockery of the whole sport but of course people won’t care because it will mainly shaft Utd. We have a a favourable run in whilst also being the form team in the division and I’m pretty sure that if we played till the end we would overtake Chelsea and probably Leicester too.

I stand by that if we can’t finish the season by playing the remaining games the only possible scenario is voiding the season and going back to last seasons places. Even though that gives Utd the same outcome, I could accept that as a much more logical and fair assessment.

 

[Offside]

Honestly points per game would make a mockery of the whole sport but of course people won’t care because it will mainly shaft Utd. We have a a favourable run in whilst also being the form team in the division and I’m pretty sure that if we played till the end we would overtake Chelsea and probably Leicester too.

I stand by that if we can’t finish the season by playing the remaining games the only possible scenario is voiding the season and going back to last seasons places. Even though that gives Utd the same outcome, I could accept that as a much more logical and fair assessment.

We’d still get champions league given that City are banned. It would shaft Sheffield United who if they won their game in hand would be ahead of us but would be fractionally behind us on points per game.

Going back to last seasons places is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. You’d basically be reinstating Tottenham who don’t look like qualifying this season into a competition they have already been knocked out of.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

We’d still get champions league given that City are banned. It would shaft Sheffield United who if they won their game in hand would be ahead of us but would be fractionally behind us on points per game.

Going back to last seasons places is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. You’d basically be reinstating Tottenham who don’t look like qualifying this season into a competition they have already been knocked out of.

I’m sorry but that’s not more ridiculous than point per game are you having a laugh . Let’s just sack off real football and do football manager from now on. It makes an absolutely mockery of competition. At least with a reset we are all in the same position, not some teams being rewarded for part of a job done.

 

[SirAF]

I think the best thing to do is to make the season null and void then start a fresh in September or whenever it's safe.

This. Don’t sacrifice two seasons.

 

[sullydnl]

All solutions have flaws but the idea of voiding the season entirely is arguably the worst, least practical one. I'm also not sure how using points per game or current standings that reflect how good a team have been this season makes more of a mockery of the game than basing CL qualification on how good a team used to be.

Besides, there's now absolutely zero chance of the season being voided, so it's a pretty irrelevant argument.

 

[El Zoido]

I’m convinced we’d have finished third if the season continued normally. Can’t help but feel we’re going to get screwed here. I hope it lights a fire under the squad for when football starts up again.

 

[2 man midfield]

I’d say you either finish the season in its entirety or void it completely. All this predicting what would or should have happened is always going to be unfair on someone.

 

[Hoof the ball]

Even if Liverpool get awarded the league, can you think of a more anti-climactic way to win it? At this point all the steam has been taken out their victory train. 30 years of waiting and it'll just be a case of, "here you go. You won the league".

If there was any scenario where Liverpool had to win the league, this would be it. No fanfare, no glory, no being paraded by opposition players clapping, no lifting the trophy.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

All solutions have flaws but the idea of voiding the season entirely is arguably the worst, least practical one. I'm also not sure how using points per game or current standings that reflect how good a team have been this season makes more of a mockery of the game than basing CL qualification on how good a team used to be.

Besides, there's now absolutely zero chance of the season being voided, so it's a pretty irrelevant argument.

Surely you can see that by taking the current standings or doing a points per game means you are favouring certain teams over other whereas voiding treats all teams equally. That doesn’t mean equal outcome but it does mean equal treatment.

I think it is fundamentally wrong to reward teams on an incomplete body of work. Leicester started the season well and we did not, however it now appears that the tables have turned and their form has dipped while ours is fantastic. So unless the PPG can take into account form and fixtures it’s fundamentally flawed an an absolute mess and if I was a lawyer I would be readying my ammunition as we speak. Voiding is easily the most logical choice.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Surely you can see that by taking the current standings or doing a points per game means you are favouring certain teams over other whereas voiding treats all teams equally. That doesn’t mean equal outcome but it does mean equal treatment.

I think it is fundamentally wrong to reward teams on an incomplete body of work. Leicester started the season well and we did not, however it now appears that the tables have turned and their form has dipped while ours is fantastic. So unless the PPG can take into account form and fixtures it’s fundamentally flawed an an absolute mess and if I was a lawyer I would be readying my ammunition as we speak. Voiding is easily the most logical choice.

It's a legal mess. We for instance stand to lose a hell of a lot if we miss CL on a technicality this year. Not only we will earn less from our place and being in Europa but our Adidas deal is decreased if we miss CL this year.

Unless we missed out on it fair and square United will be full steam ahead with lawyers in that. And that's one team. A decent amount will have similar issues

 

[Adisa]

Surely you can see that by taking the current standings or doing a points per game means you are favouring certain teams over other whereas voiding treats all teams equally. That doesn’t mean equal outcome but it does mean equal treatment.

I think it is fundamentally wrong to reward teams on an incomplete body of work. Leicester started the season well and we did not, however it now appears that the tables have turned and their form has dipped while ours is fantastic. So unless the PPG can take into account form and fixtures it’s fundamentally flawed an an absolute mess and if I was a lawyer I would be readying my ammunition as we speak. Voiding is easily the most logical choice.

Voiding seems just as unfair as the other choices when you consider Spurs will be playing CL after having a rotten season.
PPG seems the least unfair option to me.

 

[Scriblerus]

Bring back the pools panel!

 

[arnie_ni]

Reposting in this thread:

This is an absolutely shit idea. Look at the position of the teams we are yet to play:

United:

Tottenham = 8
Sheffield = 7
Norwich = 20
Brighton = 15
Bournemouth = 18
Villa = 19
Southampton = 14
Palace = 11
West Ham = 16
Leicester = 3

Average = 13.1
Top 6 left to play: 1
Rivals for CL spot: 1
Bottom 6 left to play: 6

Then Chelsea:

Villa = 19
City = 2
Leicester = 3
West Ham = 16
Watford = 17
Palace = 11
Sheffield United = 7
Norwich = 20
Liverpool = 1
Wolves = 6

Average = 10.2
Top 6 left to play: 4
Rivals for CL spot: 2
Bottom 6 left to play: 4


Leicester:

Watford = 17
Chelsea = 3
Brighton = 15
Everton = 12
Palace = 11
Arsenal = 9
Bournemouth = 18
Sheffield United = 7
Tottenham = 8
United = 5

Average = 10.3
Top 6 left to play: 2
Rivals for CL spot: 2
Bottom 6 left to play: 3

Its pretty safe to say we are the 2nd worst team effected by this after liverpool possibly not getting the league.

We were in immense form. I was expecting top 4, an fa cup and europa league push

 

[RedSky]

Lets be honest, even if the season is null and voided chances are that Liverpool will still be title favourites next season anyway, so although it would be deeply frustrating for the scousers it's not like they fluked it ala Leicester.

 

[charlenefan]

Lets be honest, even if the season is null and voided chances are that Liverpool will still be title favourites next season anyway, so although it would be deeply frustrating for the scousers it's not like they fluked it ala Leicester.

Dunno, look how City have fallen away this season after 2 seasons of dominance. Liverpool have also had 2 seasons of dominance they just didn't get the reward of the PL title last year

Hard to maintain that level for 3 seasons straight

 

[Adisa]

Liverpool are the least of my worrries. Another season of Europa, possibly missing on Sancho and the financial impact is not worth Liverpool missing out on the league.

 

[DVG7]

I’ve become so disenfranchised by the sport that I don’t even care. They say football is nothing without fans but what they mean is football is nothing without fans paying money. So many people in the game have been despicable in their failure to grasp the realities the planet is facing. We got our priorities in life wrong, let the popularity spiral out of control to the extent that a footballer with 2million followers has a more powerful voice than any infectious disease expert on the planet.

will continue to love and support man Utd and in general I am satisfied with the conduct of a lot of our players and powers that be, but feck me some others have really opened my eyes to just how egotistical, selfish and money driven football is in general.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

The thing is the UEFA will still have CL places to award based on who won the Europa League. Manchester United are the highest ranking team left in the coefficients so are the natural choice to be awarded that place.

 

[Uniquim]

Reposting in this thread:

This is an absolutely shit idea. Look at the position of the teams we are yet to play:

United:

Tottenham = 8
Sheffield = 7
Norwich = 20
Brighton = 15
Bournemouth = 18
Villa = 19
Southampton = 14
Palace = 11
West Ham = 16
Leicester = 3

Average = 13.1
Top 6 left to play: 1
Rivals for CL spot: 1
Bottom 6 left to play: 6

Then Chelsea:

Villa = 19
City = 2
Leicester = 3
West Ham = 16
Watford = 17
Palace = 11
Sheffield United = 7
Norwich = 20
Liverpool = 1
Wolves = 6

Average = 10.2
Top 6 left to play: 4
Rivals for CL spot: 2
Bottom 6 left to play: 4


Leicester:

Watford = 17
Chelsea = 3
Brighton = 15
Everton = 12
Palace = 11
Arsenal = 9
Bournemouth = 18
Sheffield United = 7
Tottenham = 8
United = 5

Average = 10.3
Top 6 left to play: 2
Rivals for CL spot: 2
Bottom 6 left to play: 3

And here's the form table since after that dreadful Burnley game. After which we hit really good form with Bruno coming into the side.

I feel confident we would have managed 4th. Possibly even 3rd. Since we were suddenly able to break down teams

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

Sorry if this has been discussed but UEFA are meeting this week to discuss how CL places are doled out if the season ends prematurely. We are sitting in fifth, which should see us qualify if the City ban is upheld. But Sheffield United sit in seventh place with a game in hand - if they won it, they would be fifth. What a mess.

Oc if Ole didn't make CL, he might get sacked, ushering in the Poch era. So this really matters.

Ole won’t be sacked,not after the form that we”ve shown over the last few months.Hes also been successful in fully integrating all the 4 players who have been signed since he joined the club,I”m sure that his success in integrating new signings into the team will further endear him to the board and the owners.

I still have reservations about Ole,and I rate Pochettino very highly,but I can’t see Ole being sacked right now...

 

[sullydnl]

Surely you can see that by taking the current standings or doing a points per game means you are favouring certain teams over other whereas voiding treats all teams equally. That doesn’t mean equal outcome but it does mean equal treatment.

I think it is fundamentally wrong to reward teams on an incomplete body of work. Leicester started the season well and we did not, however it now appears that the tables have turned and their form has dipped while ours is fantastic. So unless the PPG can take into account form and fixtures it’s fundamentally flawed an an absolute mess and if I was a lawyer I would be readying my ammunition as we speak. Voiding is easily the most logical choice.

As of right now voiding most definitely isn't the easiest choice.

We now know that voiding the league would mean no places in European competitions for anyone, which entirely rules it out as an option from the start.

Beyond that, the majority of clubs themselves are against voiding the league, so a decision to do so would be against their wishes.

Voiding also opens up its own world of problems in terms of money from broadcasters. If the league season is voided, why wouldn't broadcasters look to get back the money they paid for the league season that no longer exists? It's already been widely reported that this is the key concern for clubs, so how do you resolve it while voiding the season? Clubs are already facing a very uncertain financial future, so why would they opt for the solution which comes with by far the greatest financial risk?

A decision to void the PL would also need the support of the EFL, who are absolutely committed to finishing the league season for fear of the existential threat not doing so would pose for clubs in lower leagues. So how do you convince them to suddenly agree? Do you think the PL clubs are going to pay to keep those smaller clubs in business?

You say that if you were a lawyer you'd be readying your ammunition. What do you think the lawyers of the clubs chasing promotion will be doing if the season is voided? Or indeed the clubs who have just lost out on European football because of the decision? They're not just going to shrug their shoulders and take their financial loss on the chin, they'll be looking for compensation too.

There's also the problem of precedent. If the 19/20 season is voided then that raises the prospect that the 20/21 season could also be voided if similar issues arise. Which is an extremely pressing issue given at this point it seems likely that the 20/21 season will experience some sort of truncation, delays and/or uncertainty. Every single interested party will be looking for assurances that 20/21 won't be voided and that they aren't going to experience the same losses again, so what solution would be proposed? And what do you tell them when they ask why the solution for 20/21 can't be applied for the 19/20 season?

It'd be a mess.

 

[RedSky]

Dunno, look how City have fallen away this season after 2 seasons of dominance. Liverpool have also had 2 seasons of dominance they just didn't get the reward of the PL title last year

Hard to maintain that level for 3 seasons straight

In part Citys issue was having Laporte out mind. That messed them up slightly but I also think Citys issue is having 4 first teamers that are in their 30s and ultimately need replacing while Liverpool don't. They've still got a fairly young squad which is why I think they'll be fine (unless their players get poached).

Dejan Lovren - born 1989 (30)
Adam Lallana - born 1988 (31)
James Milner - born 1986 (34)

Sergio Agüero - born 1988 (31)
Nicolás Otamendi - born 1988 (32)
David Silva - born 1986 (34)
Fernandinho - born 1985 (35)

 

[OleBoiii]

Even if it means no CL football for us, what's "right" is right. You're a hypocrite if you want the league to be null and void but the CL spots to count somehow.

Null and void means null and void.

 

[Sky1981]

I'd prefer it, if they just did some sort of playoffs for the contentious positions. Not being able to finish the season is one thing, but the playoffs are like 6 extra games (assuming you take 4 teams for the CL places and 4 teams for the relegation), all easily done on one location in a few a days. If we're ready to start the next season at some point then there's no real reason why they couldn't be played a week before. It keeps a lot more "sporting integrity" than PPG. Hell, they could even be used a trial to determine if everyone is ready to begin the season.

It's not easy to arrange a match without being called hypocrite. It's just fecking football ffs. You wanna risk 50 or so players and team officials just so you can brag about who's going to Europe.

Points per game. Or as it is is fine.

If you're on the wrong side of the luck then tough luck.

There's more to life than a petty football match. And we're not talking about 4 - 6 match. If the epl did it the whole championship to division 3 would want one. And all that risk just so that we can go to CL? feck cl. There wont be CL next season anyway. We're 5th. We do not deserve to be there anyway.

 

[UncleBob]

It's not easy to arrange a match without being called hypocrite. It's just fecking football ffs. You wanna risk 50 or so players and team officials just so you can brag about who's going to Europe.

Points per game. Or as it is is fine.

If you're on the wrong side of the luck then tough luck.

There's more to life than a petty football match. And we're not talking about 4 - 6 match. If the epl did it the whole championship to division 3 would want one. And all that risk just so that we can go to CL? feck cl. There wont be CL next season anyway. We're 5th. We do not deserve to be there anyway.

We're 3 points behind 3rd spot, having had a much more difficult fixture list...

If the crisis had happened just before matchday 28, Watford and West Ham would be looking at relegation instead of Bournemouth and Villa.

 

[stevoc]

As of right now voiding most definitely isn't the easiest choice.

We now know that voiding the league would mean no places in European competitions for anyone, which entirely rules it out as an option from the start.

Beyond that, the majority of clubs themselves are against voiding the league, so a decision to do so would be against their wishes.

Voiding also opens up its own world of problems in terms of money from broadcasters. If the league season is voided, why wouldn't broadcasters look to get back the money they paid for the league season that no longer exists? It's already been widely reported that this is the key concern for clubs, so how do you resolve it while voiding the season? Clubs are already facing a very uncertain financial future, so why would they opt for the solution which comes with by far the greatest financial risk?

A decision to void the PL would also need the support of the EFL, who are absolutely committed to finishing the league season for fear of the existential threat not doing so would pose for clubs in lower leagues. So how do you convince them to suddenly agree? Do you think the PL clubs are going to pay to keep those smaller clubs in business?

You say that if you were a lawyer you'd be readying your ammunition. What do you think the lawyers of the clubs chasing promotion will be doing if the season is voided? Or indeed the clubs who have just lost out on European football because of the decision? They're not just going to shrug their shoulders and take their financial loss on the chin, they'll be looking for compensation too.

There's also the problem of precedent. If the 19/20 season is voided then that raises the prospect that the 20/21 season could also be voided if similar issues arise. Which is an extremely pressing issue given at this point it seems likely that the 20/21 season will experience some sort of truncation, delays and/or uncertainty. Every single interested party will be looking for assurances that 20/21 won't be voided and that they aren't going to experience the same losses again, so what solution would be proposed? And what do you tell them when they ask why the solution for 20/21 can't be applied for the 19/20 season?

It'd be a mess.

No necessarily I think that entirely depends on what the Premier Leagues interpretation of voiding would be, they certainly wouldn't call it that for a start. But if they did scrap this season, i think UEFA referred to it as terminating the season. In that scenario they could then still choose to award European places based on the current standings. But not award a title or relegate any teams, (some FA's were throwing this idea around last month). So to all intents and purposes they would be voiding the season but calling it something else.

Now i think its highly unlikely that they'll choose to go down this road at this stage, but it is still possible. UEFA's statement yesterday was basically just them passing the buck and being very vague in their instructions to the national FA's. Vague enough that there would be absolutely no legal blow back on UEFA for anything that a national FA chooses to do to end their season.

 

[sullydnl]

No necessarily I think that entirely depends on what the Premier Leagues interpretation of voiding would be, they certainly wouldn't call it that for a start. But if they did scrap this season, i think UEFA referred to it as terminating the season. In that scenario they could then still choose to award European places based on the current standings. But not award a title or relegate any teams, (some FA's were throwing this idea around last month). So to all intents and purposes they would be voiding the season but calling it something else.

Now i think its highly unlikely that they'll choose to go down this road at this stage, but it is still possible. UEFA's statement yesterday was basically just them passing the buck and being very vague in their instructions to the national FA's. Vague enough that there would be absolutely no legal blow back on UEFA for anything that a national FA chooses to do to end their season.

Yep, cancelling the rest of the season and awarding the CL places based on ppg or current standings would be fine. By "voiding" I meant what the poster I was responding to meant, which was forgetting this season entirely and basing CL places on the results of the 18/19 season. Which wouldn't be allowed.

I don't think there's any real chance of them not awarding Liverpool the title in that scenario though. Whereas not relegating teams is probably more likely. Essentially I think they'll try to avoid actions that leave teams worse off then they already were before the Coronavirus kicked in. Nobody really loses anything if Liverpool are given the title (apart from the small part of my soul that would have been chipped away, that is) but relegation has material consequences.

My guess is they'll try to wrap up the season if they can but if not it will be Liverpool champions, CL places decided by PPG, no relegations.