I dont belive any (working) gouverment wants anybody to die from this or wish ill on the people living in their country. They all do what they think are the best for most imo. It seems like a very over the top respons to what a wrote.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
Another danger of the "Sweden is doing well" narrative is that the right wing nutters here in the US are using it to fuel their protests against our state governments lockdown measures.
What those dumbasses don't look at is that if we were at Sweden's deaths per million, we'd already be over 80,000 confirmed deaths.
What those dumbasses don't look at is that if we were at Sweden's deaths per million, we'd already be over 80,000 confirmed deaths.
The geographic/demographic/connectivity variations are known in advance, though. Hence you could argue that a country like England should have shut down earlier/more aggressively than the likes of Ireland or New Zealand. And the fact that the opposite happened has been a big factor in your grim statistics.
My main beef with inter-country comparisons has always been the different way in which data is collected. Completely pointless comparing cases between two countries, only one of which does any kind of extensive community testing. Likewise comparing deaths when one country records only covid deaths in hospitals. Then there’s the way that per capita analysis favours big countries, with mortality rates diluted by regions the epidemic has not yet reached (hence the US has relatively low deaths per million, despite being an absolute train wreck) In a smaller country the epidemic can spread to every corner in a couple of weeks.
I do agree that luck plays a part, mind you. Just a handful of superspreaders can create thousands of infections downstream. So there’s a fine line between success and failure.
I'd expect Sweden to have a bit more tourism and other business visitors in and out than other Nordic countries.
In terms of comparing Sweden to other small nations, using Ireland they seem equal at this point in relation to population and deaths, ~5m ~10m pop 1.2k and 2.4k deaths, but have had a different way of going about it although it must be said there's been a huge drop off in Sweden's shops as people don't risk it anyway. Belgium have had about 3500 hospital deaths and per head is equivalent to 20000 UK deaths but more condensed than Sweden and part of a busy western European thoroughfare of all aspects of travel, small and big countries in this area have been hit hard initially and those off the beaten tracks haven't
In terms of comparing Sweden to other small nations, using Ireland they seem equal at this point in relation to population and deaths, ~5m ~10m pop 1.2k and 2.4k deaths, but have had a different way of going about it although it must be said there's been a huge drop off in Sweden's shops as people don't risk it anyway. Belgium have had about 3500 hospital deaths and per head is equivalent to 20000 UK deaths but more condensed than Sweden and part of a busy western European thoroughfare of all aspects of travel, small and big countries in this area have been hit hard initially and those off the beaten tracks haven't
It was abundantly clear there was an undertone to your posts regarding Sweden, now the curtain is pulled back.
How the same approach would work or the fear of it being used as a poster child for policy implementation you disagree with in your country should not be taken into consideration when discussing how well Sweden is or isn't doing.
There isn't an undertone. I think what they're doing is wrong on its own 'merit'.
In addition to that, idiots in the US are taking that wrong policy and running with it.
Yippee
Have they asked you to bake your N95 masks in an oven at 70C so you can reuse them yet? Was a serious suggestion doing the rounds in Ireland.
How is this Sweden's fault though? So what are you saying, that every country should follow the same policy as the USA because if they don't, it might make nutters in America start causing trouble?
Judging by the majority of those protesting, I would bet that less than 5% of them even know the country of Sweden exists let alone has any knowledge of their approach to the pandemic.
Another right-wing nutter, I presume.
Idiots in the US have nothing to do with Sweden or their policies. There is a very clear undertone, an understandable one but one that doesn't belong in the conversation it was introduced into. You are judging Sweden's policies from a "I don't want that here" viewpoint, so your views on it are skewed at best.
I don't think anybody knows enough about this virus to be able to say any policy (removing extremes) is right or wrong.
This is the crux of it. The counter response isn't to Sweden itself but to the fringe right who are misusing it to try and justify an agenda. They misrepresent the context but also it seems to me even the style of lockdown Sweden employed which isn't life as normal.
I certainly don't wish what we are doing on countries that are implementing better policies. I also don't want us adopting one that is worse.
And I've posted before, I believe that Sweden's touting of their own policy is a way to deflect from their Nordic neighbors doing differently and showing lower numbers.
And judging by how posts about Sweden are going viral in Trump-land, I'd say you were mistaken.
I'm assuming you think it is some kind of complex thought that I'm incapable of to believe that Sweden's policy is poor on its own merit, while also not wanting that same poor policy implemented in the US...?
Because if idiots in the US weren't using it as fuel for protests, I'd still think Sweden's policy was poor.
Just a billionaire... so, yeah... a twat.Another right-wing nutter, I presume.
Sweden say half their deaths include care homes. What are USA's care home deaths?
Absolutely, he is a disgusting human being that needs to be cancelled immediately.
He thought smoking weed with Joe Rogan will make him look cool to the progressive young minds of the world, what a jerk.
Ha. That's a good question. The government just a couple of days ago started requiring nursing homes to report presumed and confirmed Covid cases to the CDC.
I don't think you are looking at it with clear eyes, no. To add I think you are too definitive when it's not a subject where definitive views fit very well in this space in time.
I'm also not sure how closely you are looking to form your opinions when you make statements like "I believe that Sweden's touting of their own policy is a way to deflect from their Nordic neighbors doing differently and showing lower numbers".
As I said, there is a randomness to the starting numbers and the immediate growth for every country but even if we for purpose gave every country the same number of seed cases and the same demographics then it stands to reason a country with a less strict policy will have higher numbers than a country which has opted to (seemingly in majority of cases short term) implement more strict policies.
Sweden having higher numbers of cases than neighbouring countries is not a consequence (solely at least) of them doing a bad job, it is a consequence (partially at least) of them going a different route. A route you say with one hand they are "touting" and one the other hand are using it to "deflect". This would be akin to blowing a whistle to attract attention and then telling people "don't look here look over there" Sweden know they are under the microscope.
Well, I think I'd know my mind better than you, but to each his own.
Could be really high, 35-50%. Sweden might be doing much better using your per million comparison then.
The issue is so much of the data that we are looking at is confusing at best, unreliable at worst.
Sweden is getting plaudits and criticism at the same time? People want to look at the US as not doing a good job, but there are states that have done an amazing job. Just for shits and giggles, lets compare Sweden (11M population in 173k square miles) to a state like Texas (30M population in 268k square miles). At this time, Sweden (2,462) has nearly 4 times the amount of deaths as Texas (690), and only has ~ 1/3 of the population of Texas. Sweden has 244 deaths per 1M population while Texas has 29 deaths per 1M population.
What is driving me insane is how do we apply this type of infromation from all these different countries when it provides no clear story?
I can certainly understand why people in a state like Texas want to get back working, especially when the total deaths from Corona is significantly less than deaths from influenza. At the same time, I can fully understand why people in NY or MI think they need to extend shelter in place orders. The more I research and try to understand, the more I want to put my head through a wall.
Sweden is getting plaudits and criticism at the same time? People want to look at the US as not doing a good job, but there are states that have done an amazing job. Just for shits and giggles, lets compare Sweden (11M population in 173k square miles) to a state like Texas (30M population in 268k square miles). At this time, Sweden (2,462) has nearly 4 times the amount of deaths as Texas (690), and only has ~ 1/3 of the population of Texas. Sweden has 244 deaths per 1M population while Texas has 29 deaths per 1M population.
What is driving me insane is how do we apply this type of infromation from all these different countries when it provides no clear story?
I can certainly understand why people in a state like Texas want to get back working, especially when the total deaths from Corona is significantly less than deaths from influenza. At the same time, I can fully understand why people in NY or MI think they need to extend shelter in place orders. The more I research and try to understand, the more I want to put my head through a wall.
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He (Elon) has the worst fanboys.
We're now over 26,000 deaths in the UK, the figures for outside hospitals have just been added on
What a fecking tool.The one and only light relief in this shit show has been the unintentional humour provided by nerds who think they can do epidemiology because they know how to read graphs.
@Eboue I've seen the light
When is Super League resuming? Can't find info on that.
Apparently our border with Croatia will likely be again open for non essential travel in June, which means there will be some sort of foreign tourism available this summer. Which is something that Croatia probably desperately needs, considering about 1/4 of their economy is related to it.
If it is, and our 181 per million is actually much higher, then I definitely wouldn't want to see what our numbers would be with a similar open approach.
Independently of that, I believe that Sweden could have done better following approaches done in neighboring countries.
That aged well.
I would have been in Croatia over Easter if it hadn't been for this pandemic. Maybe I'll get another chance this summer.
So Gilead's Remdesivir treatment earlier 'failed' in the Chinese double arm test last week. Seems like the US double arm test may be showing some positive results. Fauci to give us the details on tonight's Trump Show, starring Donald Trump, and some other people.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/29/gilead-says-positive-results-coronavirus-drug-remdesivir-will-be-released-by-nih/?outputType=amp
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/29/gilead-says-positive-results-coronavirus-drug-remdesivir-will-be-released-by-nih/?outputType=amp
Wetherspoons are planning on opening in June according to Sky News.
The one and only light relief in this shit show has been the unintentional humour provided by nerds who think they can do epidemiology because they know how to read graphs.
This thread demonstrates how every cnut thinks they can take data and figure out anything from it. It really will be a massive effort of all disciplines pitching in to figure out how to come out of this shitshow and learn from it.
are they allowed?
Or is it for takeout?
Is it just me but hasn't there always been social distancing in Wetherspoon's?
It's like groundhog Day, same questions same answers.
No. You’re confusing social distancing with casual racism.
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