The dominos that will fall because of Covid-19

Sky1981

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Actually I think the opposite will happen. It will convince countries to go insular by closing borders and bringing industries back home (like medical equipment etc). China is sensing the threat hence why its sending as much help as possible.
It's greed that sends factories to china, not cooperation.

As long as there's profit to be make you can be sure trade will happen one way or the other.

If it's not the chinese it's the mexicans, or the vietnamesse, or the cambodians, indonesians. You name it
 

Drawfull

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Not within their rights legally or morally to write passive aggressive signs telling people to follow government advice and stop putting their community at risk? Give over. “Acting like a mob” :lol: how precious.
They were there before the lockdown, his wife is from there, he runs a business there. Should they make the non-essential trip back to their main residence? It's not black and white.
 

devilish

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It's greed that sends factories to china, not cooperation.

As long as there's profit to be make you can be sure trade will happen one way or the other.

If it's not the chinese it's the mexicans, or the vietnamesse, or the cambodians, indonesians. You name it
That change if ridiculously high tariffs are imposed through the EU & US markets. The economy in Europe and the US will shrink substantially after this mess. Covid-19 will be one hell of an excuse to bring business back.
 

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Listening to the Queen's speech, it was clear that she considered the fight against Covid-19 to be analogous to WWII on a certain level. Which is interesting since decades now, familial participation in WWII has been seen as some sort of acid test to true 'Britishness'.

Racists often bring up their granddads fighting on the frontlines of the the war, and infer that that gives them (and people who look like them) a special right of superiority over other everybody else.

But the new frontline of this nation's biggest fight in last 75 years is in the hospitals. And that fight is being fought by multi-cultural medical staff.

Could a shared tragedy help to create a new and broader definition for what it means to be British? I hope so.

Black and brown people are currently risking their own lives to save the lives of everybody else in the country. A little bit more respect is the least their communities deserve.
There were millions of black and brown people who fought with the allies in WW2. Racists will always be ignorant so I doubt your hope will be realised.
 

Skills

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I think this virus could possibly push India into superpower territory if nations start switching manufacturing from china to the sub continent.
Too late for India. India just don't have the manufacturing base to do it, the working population itself is services focused & are most importantly already a bit too expensive. I work for a manufacturing company, and India are competing for our engineering work - not the actual manufacturing.

I think some of the other SEA countries could be benefiting. But I don't think anyone will be switching manufacturing from China, but there is going to be a bigger motivation for organisations to diversify their supply chains to strengthen their business continuity.
 

crappycraperson

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Too late for India. India just don't have the manufacturing base to do it, the working population itself is services focused & are most importantly already a bit too expensive. I work for a manufacturing company, and India are competing for our engineering work - not the actual manufacturing.

I think some of the other SEA countries could be benefiting. But I don't think anyone will be switching manufacturing from China, but there is going to be a bigger motivation for organisations to diversify their supply chains to strengthen their business continuity.
Daily wage labourers in India are huge in numbers. I don't even think their working conditions are that much better than what workers get in a FoxConn facility in China. There is a definitely enough workforce to aid manufacturing units in India. Most consultants have hypothesised that companies will now want to diversify their sourcing units across south east Asia but that was before the pandemic spread to outside China. Wonder if that will still happen. But in any case, I don't see any such investment in manufacturing sector by foreign entities as propelling us towards any mythical super power status.
 

Paxi

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This pandemic will be the end of EU.
 

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This pandemic will be the end of EU.
nah, rubbish.

I think you might see a concerted effort to plan for similar events as a bloc. Co-ordinating border controls better, health resources etc. Europe is linked by common borders so going it alone just isn't feasible.
 

Sky1981

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That change if ridiculously high tariffs are imposed through the EU & US markets. The economy in Europe and the US will shrink substantially after this mess. Covid-19 will be one hell of an excuse to bring business back.
The only thing stopping jobs from flowing out of the US is the US' greed itself.

Nobody forces the company out, for every american employee they can employ 5-10 Mexicans, or Indonesians perhaps. So unless the American workers agree to be paid much less than what they get to be in par with the 3rd world country those jobs ain't gonna be coming back.

All that comes back is the names and registree, enjoying the tax cuts while outsourcing the product. Forget about real employee and factories, US companies are so greedy they won't even pay US tax.
 

Jaqen H'ghar

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Not within their rights legally or morally to write passive aggressive signs telling people to follow government advice and stop putting their community at risk? Give over. “Acting like a mob” :lol: how precious.
Not being precious at all.:)

I called them a mob because they are acting out of a primal anger and distrust. Times of stress and crisis tend to bring out the worst in (some) people.

The BBC article says that they had arrived before the outbreak, decided to stay to avoid unnecessary travel and were acting responsibly, so they were just as likely to aquire the disease as others in the area, not more not less.

Ventilators and hospital beds may be in short supply, but they probably are everywhere. It's a problem caused by an underfunded NHS. It is unfair to blame it on fellow citizens, or to get protective of these public resources as if they were private property.

From the BBC article:
Devon and Cornwall Chief Constable Shaun Sawyer said the behaviour was "unacceptable".
I tend to agree.
 

Dr. Dwayne

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It's greed that sends factories to china, not cooperation.

As long as there's profit to be make you can be sure trade will happen one way or the other.

If it's not the chinese it's the mexicans, or the vietnamesse, or the cambodians, indonesians. You name it
I think was the lack of regulation that sent factories there, personally. North America and Europe were toxically polluted in the 1980s. Within 10 years we had cleaned it all up. The only plausible explanation is that we moved all of that industry to other jurisdictions.
 

Atze-Peng

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It's greed that sends factories to china, not cooperation.

As long as there's profit to be make you can be sure trade will happen one way or the other.

If it's not the chinese it's the mexicans, or the vietnamesse, or the cambodians, indonesians. You name it
Greed by giant business owners? Yes, of course. That's the entire point of globalisation. To be able to produce cheaper while keeping selling it at the same high prices in the wealthier nations. Don't think it's generally the commoners greed, though.
But when you said you wanted nationally self-reliant economies (aside from things you can't produce nationally), you were - and often times still are - labelled a racist, nazi or whatever. Ironically very often by the exact same crowds who (say that they) hate exploitation of humans, nature and/or what big international businesses stand for.


I think was the lack of regulation that sent factories there, personally. North America and Europe were toxically polluted in the 1980s. Within 10 years we had cleaned it all up. The only plausible explanation is that we moved all of that industry to other jurisdictions.
In fact, it got even worse due to shipping that produced even more emmissions. Proper and reasonable regulations on emission and pollution would've been perfectly fine. If history has shown anything then that humans can create great progress when they have to.
 

Dr. Dwayne

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In fact, it got even worse due to shipping that produced even more emmissions. Proper and reasonable regulations on emission and pollution would've been perfectly fine. If history has shown anything then that humans can create great progress when they have to.
Globally, yes it's certainly debateable but locally, no. North American and Europe are much cleaner than they were in the 80s and early 90s. This isn't just a question of emissions but also of things like water and soil.
 

Sky1981

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Greed by giant business owners? Yes, of course. That's the entire point of globalisation. To be able to produce cheaper while keeping selling it at the same high prices in the wealthier nations. Don't think it's generally the commoners greed, though.
But when you said you wanted nationally self-reliant economies (aside from things you can't produce nationally), you were - and often times still are - labelled a racist, nazi or whatever. Ironically very often by the exact same crowds who (say that they) hate exploitation of humans, nature and/or what big international businesses stand for.




In fact, it got even worse due to shipping that produced even more emmissions. Proper and reasonable regulations on emission and pollution would've been perfectly fine. If history has shown anything then that humans can create great progress when they have to.
Collective greed. Selfish workers that unionized and demands an untenable working conditions. Selfish customers that doesnt want to fork more money for the same goods made in america. My parents used to make their living making exports to US, trust me they want human rights etc but offers the price of a slave labor. Greedy owners who doesnt want to fork extra to make their business pollute less, clean industry is expensive. Government selfish because they want cheap product made in china while they can sit on their wall street controlling funds.

And you cant produced everything locally. You simply cant. You need trade, not inclusivity. No country can made a simple masker all by themselves. Uk has no pulp, luxembourg has no factory, singapore has no land no workers no raw materials, US has no raw earth vital for electronic, china has no cotton etc. You simply cant.
 

berbatrick

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For all the people clamouring to "hold China accountable":
The modern animal agricultural system, which has started in the US and due to its cost efficiency spread throughout the world, includes as a part of that efficiency the indiscriminate use of antibiotics to promote animal growth. Antibiotic resistant bacteria have been found on farms including on a North Carolina pig farm close to where I live. In the few states and countries which have passed laws about this, they are routinely flouted. Scientists have been raising the alarm about this for at least a decade.
Who do you think owes what when antibiotics, the miracle of modern medicine become (hopefully temoporarily) unuseable when one of those resistant bacteria becomes a problem for humans?
And how does this principle of holding countries accountable for the losses of others apply to global warming?
 

Revan

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For all the people clamouring to "hold China accountable":
The modern animal agricultural system, which has started in the US and due to its cost efficiency spread throughout the world, includes as a part of that efficiency the indiscriminate use of antibiotics to promote animal growth. Antibiotic resistant bacteria have been found on farms including on a North Carolina pig farm close to where I live. In the few states and countries which have passed laws about this, they are routinely flouted. Scientists have been raising the alarm about this for at least a decade.
Who do you think owes what when antibiotics, the miracle of modern medicine become (hopefully temoporarily) unuseable when one of those resistant bacteria becomes a problem for humans?
And how does this principle of holding countries accountable for the losses of others apply to global warming?
This is a pretty good example of whataboutism.
 

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It's not wrong though is it. We also need to massively up our game wrt animal welfare.
Sure, we do. That doesn’t excuse China for fecking up on this case too.

And the global warming bit was hilarious. Guess who is the biggest emitter of CO2.
 

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Is this going to result in a lot of pay cuts - from the highest earners to the low earners?
If the government don't extent the 80% of wages contribution beyond the end of May, and a lot of business don't pick up, then without doubt - as a best case scenario!
 

Atze-Peng

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Understandably so. The point of why many people were pro EU is to have them help when necessary and for nation's to help each other. Italians most likely feel left alone with all this (while ironically Russia did help them). The EU failed miserably at providing help, direction and stability amidst this situation.

Additionally I don't really buy the 70% of remain in Italy prior. I definitely remember stats years ago that were way below that and seeing the success anti-EU parties had in the last Italian election that surely hasn't improved, but if anything already gotten worse. The way the EU handled this situation might very well be a catalyst for Italy leaving.
 

Fiskey

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I'm thinking more and more if Germany/Netherlands don't agree to eurobonds then the EU will be done. The deal they agreed a few days ago seems to have unraveled, and no one is going to let themselves be treated as Greece was treated in the last crisis.
 

rcoobc

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Not as big as some of the others, but I'd say that the last League Cup match has been played.
 

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I was thinking Hostels are going to be gone for a long time. I like to solo travel/holiday and I like staying in hostels, because they're cheap and you can socialise/meet other people. But they're the exact opposite of what social distancing is, so I don't think many of them will make it at all.
 

UpWithRivers

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The only thing that will change is the tighter controls imposed on humanity and killing the middle class widening the gap between the super rich and the poor.
 

horsechoker

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The only thing that will change is the tighter controls imposed on humanity and killing the middle class widening the gap between the super rich and the poor.
Is killing the middle class beneficial to the super rich who need the middle class to buy their goods and products?
 

UpWithRivers

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Is killing the middle class beneficial to the super rich who need the middle class to buy their goods and products?
Depends how you define middle class. I meant that you class that has the ability to own business and start heading to be rich will be cut off. So basically all business owned by the few and everyone else working for them and controlled by them and still buying stuff but paycheck to paycheck and via insurmountable debt. Basically everyone working class.
 

JMack1234

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I think this could have some pretty profound affects on the UK University system.

First of all, a lot of Universities are in serious financial trouble and could go bust if they don't get help from the government.

The ones that survive will be operating in a very different landscape. If you do a Humanities or Social Science degree etc, all your degree consists of is lectures, seminars and reading. All of which can be easily done online. .

At the very least a lot of Unis will have to offer some form of Online only course which makes it very difficult for them to justify the fees they charge.

The days of someone leaving their home town to study Criminology at a former-Poly could be over.

I don't want this to be the case, I live in a city that depends on its two Universities but I can't see a return to status-quo for Higher Education.... and that's a very a big domino.
 

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Let's see.

Part 2:
  • Schools will open prematurely to get parents back to work
  • Home schooling will become more popular
  • Friends will be lost because of their different take on the matter
  • Factions in society will grow even deeper
  • The second wave of lockdowns will lead to more violent protests
  • Famine will befall many poor countries
  • Brazil, Ukraine, Russia and South Africa will join the US as epicenters
  • Inflation will destroy many developing countries
  • China's second wave will be worse than the first
  • China will invade Taiwan
  • A new world war will follow the pandemic
And pretty soon now something horrible is going to happen. I don't know what. Maybe a massive natural disaster. I saw it in my tea leaves.

Either that or Harry Potter is going to die. The jury is in quarantine.
 

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Collective greed. Selfish workers that unionized and demands an untenable working conditions. Selfish customers that doesnt want to fork more money for the same goods made in america. My parents used to make their living making exports to US, trust me they want human rights etc but offers the price of a slave labor. Greedy owners who doesnt want to fork extra to make their business pollute less, clean industry is expensive. Government selfish because they want cheap product made in china while they can sit on their wall street controlling funds.

And you cant produced everything locally. You simply cant. You need trade, not inclusivity. No country can made a simple masker all by themselves. Uk has no pulp, luxembourg has no factory, singapore has no land no workers no raw materials, US has no raw earth vital for electronic, china has no cotton etc. You simply cant.
Workers demanding fair pay and good working conditions isn’t greed, neither is consumers wanting to see their cash go as as far as it can

Agree with the stuff on trade though, believe it was David Riccardo (amongst others) who wrote about ‘comparative advantage’
 

711

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I’m also hoping for a bit more respect for minimum wage workers. While management consultants are able to hole up in their fancy houses, working out to Joe Wicks videos, supermarket cashiers are risking their lives to keep food on everyone’s tables. Doctors and nurses aside, hospital porters and cleaners are also putting themselves in harms way for a pittance. I really hope they all get some recognition at the end of this.
You're absolutely right. And in normal times, when we're talking more than health risks, none of them can operate without the guys that keep the underground going, the bus drivers, the people that mend the holes in the road and go down the sewers, the traffic wardens and the clerks. Key workers shouldn't be a term just for the educated and better paid. Note to self, must get more left-wing again.
 

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You're absolutely right. And in normal times, when we're talking more than health risks, none of them can operate without the guys that keep the underground going, the bus drivers, the people that mend the holes in the road and go down the sewers, the traffic wardens and the clerks. Key workers shouldn't be a term just for the educated and better paid. Note to self, must get more left-wing again.
:lol: Last sentence is relatable!
 

blue blue

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I've been locked up for too long and can't see the future anymore.

I've been working from home and there seems to be a new world out there. I've taken a pay cut. My invoices are getting knocked. My employees have had to take pay cuts. They are accusing me taking food out of their children's mouths. I need to charge more for my services because social distancing is causing everything to take much longer. My clients do not want to pay me any more.

Something has to give somewhere and I can't see where.
 

arnie_ni

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I've been locked up for too long and can't see the future anymore.

I've been working from home and there seems to be a new world out there. I've taken a pay cut. My invoices are getting knocked. My employees have had to take pay cuts. They are accusing me taking food out of their children's mouths. I need to charge more for my services because social distancing is causing everything to take much longer. My clients do not want to pay me any more.

Something has to give somewhere and I can't see where.
Can i ask why you have asked your employees to take a pay cut? Havent you furloughed them
 

blue blue

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Can i ask why you have asked your employees to take a pay cut? Havent you furloughed them
They get more money if they take a pay cut. The maximum of £2,500.00 under the Furlough system is less than if they get a pay cut. We are a construction company and some sites remain open. Some have been furloughed but we need to have teams working.

We didn't stop work on some sites. We have invoiced for works we did after the lockdown and the main contractors are not paying properly. The dispute resolution service is not working properly and the courts are tied up. We have nowhere to turn. Its awful and getting worse by the day. We have foreman overseeing a fraction of the work they normally do and we only have so much money in to pay them. If the jobs overrun we need extra payment for the foreman and fixed site costs over longer period of time but nobody wants to pay for this.
 

DoomSlayer

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They get more money if they take a pay cut. The maximum of £2,500.00 under the Furlough system is less than if they get a pay cut. We are a construction company and some sites remain open. Some have been furloughed but we need to have teams working.

We didn't stop work on some sites. We have invoiced for works we did after the lockdown and the main contractors are not paying properly. The dispute resolution service is not working properly and the courts are tied up. We have nowhere to turn. Its awful and getting worse by the day. We have foreman overseeing a fraction of the work they normally do and we only have so much money in to pay them. If the jobs overrun we need extra payment for the foreman and fixed site costs over longer period of time but nobody wants to pay for this.
I have a lot of sympathy for you, most people that are employees and not employers have no idea how the current situation is affecting most small or medium-sized businesses.

A lot also have the audacity and arrogance to criticise people like you for the decisions you make, when they have never and will never in their lives have to deal with such issues.