Irish Politics

[cyberman]

Ironically SF might rather be in opposition over this period than in power so they can pull the government over the goals when they inevitably stick it to the public sector down the line.
I hate how we have politicised this, any excuse to get into power. Now hes saying it has to be a 5 year government etc etc.

 

[Eyepopper]

Ironically SF might rather be in opposition over this period than in power so they can pull the government over the goals when they inevitably stick it to the public sector down the line.
I hate how we have politicised this, any excuse to get into power. Now hes saying it has to be a 5 year government etc etc.

Nothing ironic about it at all, the last thing SF want is to be the minor partner in a coalition government. Their main aim in the last election was to strengthen their position as an opposition party, so they can hurl from the ditch with a louder voice.

As for Martin, well he'd force a shit sandwich down his mothers throat if it meant he'd be in power. Happy to point out the failings of the HSE - mainly down to its structures and ways of operating - while failing to remind us that he was the minister for health that established the fecking thing to begin with.

 

[Green_Red]

Ireland is as fecked politically as Britain and the US. Morally debunked politicians are a new reality.

I thought it was hilarious today to see a SF politician refuse to allow the British armed forces to support the NHS in Northern Ireland because of the past. Sure, its an ugly past, but feet on the ground in a crisis like this, who the feck cares where they came from? Make them wear civilian clothes whilst they help ffs. The whole country, north and south is fecked up.

 

[Eyepopper]

Ireland is as fecked politically as Britain and the US. Morally debunked politicians are a new reality.

New reality?

I'm old enough to remember Charlie Haughey telling people they were living far beyond their means, while he was sailing out to his private island wearing thousand pound, hand made French silk shirts.

Irish politics had been defined by self interest for decades.

 

[utdalltheway]

New reality?

I'm old enough to remember Charlie Haughey telling people they were living far beyond their means, while he was sailing out to his private island wearing thousand pound, hand made French silk shirts.

Irish politics had been defined by self interest for decades.

True.
Haughey; look up langer in the dictionary and his picture is there.

 

[Green_Red]

New reality?

I'm old enough to remember Charlie Haughey telling people they were living far beyond their means, while he was sailing out to his private island wearing thousand pound, hand made French silk shirts.

Irish politics had been defined by self interest for decades.

You're right, it's not a new reality, it's been like that for years.

 

[sullydnl]

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I believe the deal requires a third party to join.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Has there ever been a more poisoned chalice for a new government? You can bet your arse every single politician would rather be sniping from the backbenches between now and the next GE.

 

[spontaneus1]

Has there ever been a more poisoned chalice for a new government? You can bet your arse every single politician would rather be sniping from the backbenches between now and the next GE.

I imagine this government will kill one of the big 2. My suspicion is FF.

 

[sullydnl]

I imagine this government will kill one of the big 2. My suspicion is FF.

Yep, if SF are going to cut into the support of one of the big 2 over the next two years then you'd think it would definitely be FF. There's far more overlap between those two parties than there is between SF and FG.

And the opportunity will definitely be there for SF to make gains from the opposition benches given the tough choices facing a FG/FF government in the years ahead.

 

[2cents]

I believe the deal requires a third party to join.

The numbers demand at least the Greens, and even then it’s shaky. The SDs might be interested if Shorthall can get Health. A good few Independents will likely be needed too.

 

[Eyepopper]

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I believe the deal requires a third party to join.

Eamon Ryan would suck a bunch of dicks to get into Government..... thats not gonna be a problem.

 

[sullydnl]

Eamon Ryan would suck a bunch of dicks to get into Government..... thats not gonna be a problem.

I get the sense that a lot of their newer faces are much less keen though. He'd definitely be up for it but he might need to do some convincing.

 

[Eyepopper]

I get the sense that a lot of their newer faces are much less keen though. He'd definitely be up for it but he might need to do some convincing.

Yeah, let's see how that works out.

As was the case the last time, if the Greens get a chance to implement any minor aspects of their manifesto, they'll ignore the bigger picture and support all sorts of unimaginable shit - just as they did the last time.

 

[sullydnl]

Incidentally, the "re-evaluated" Slaintecare part of this prospective government plan rings alarm bells as I suspect in this context that means not delivering on it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Incidentally, the "re-evaluated" Slaintecare part of this prospective government plan rings alarm bells as I suspect in this context that means not delivering on it.

Good. Slaintecare is/was a crock of shite.

 

[sullydnl]

Good. Slaintecare is/was a crock of shite.

Oh really? I don't know much about it beyond being something all major parties had committed to, which in itself seemed like progress given the apparent lack of over-arching strategy prior to that.

 

[sullydnl]

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Would have to be a tempting prospect if you're the leader of a smaller party....

 

[cyberman]

Remember when Leo resigned a few months ago?
I hope calm heads can talk this through and not use the fear of Corona as a tool to barge this over the line.
Michael coning straight ouy and saying the country needs a 5 year government as an excuse to get in with FG still doesnt sit right with me.

 

[sullydnl]

Remember when Leo resigned a few months ago?
I hope calm heads can talk this through and not use the fear of Corona as a tool to barge this over the line.
Michael coning straight ouy and saying the country needs a 5 year government as an excuse to get in with FG still doesnt sit right with me.

What's the alternative though? Nobody else has the numbers to form a government, trying to organise an election right now would be insane and continuing with a caretaker government until an election is possible is hardly ideal when we don't know how long that will take.

 

[cyberman]

What's the alternative though? Nobody else has the numbers to form a government, trying to organise an election right now would be insane and continuing with a caretaker government until an election is possible is hardly ideal when we don't know how long that will take.

We cant be stuck with a government that we have to accept upon the fear of coronavirus.
We are talking about football returning in May and crowds of up to 5k in a few months. If we have to, another election should not be out of the question and the public shouldnt be talked down to as if this is the only option. Any third party that gets in bed here will kill themselves off as well imo
SF as opposition during this period guarentees them getting voted in after this inevitable shitshow in 5 years. Theyll be getting away with it as well.
Theres a reason why Leo literally resigned and had FF agreeing that the public want change. Both sneaking in the backdoor like this doesnt sit well with me.
Theres nothing wrong with a short tem government and assess from there.

Edit Health minister of Ireland

Remember this is coronavirus Covid-19, that means there’s been eighteen other coronaviruses and I don’t think they’ve successfully found a vaccine for any.” -

Hes never been qualified enough for the job. That is shocking. Ive long suspected our government simply hands over the reigns to people who know what theyre doing and take the credit for it with ridiculous speeches thrown in for good measure.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We cant be stuck with a government that we have to accept upon the fear of coronavirus.
We are talking about football returning in May and crowds of up to 5k in a few months. If we have to, another election should not be out of the question and the public shouldnt be talked down to as if this is the only option. Any third party that gets in bed here will kill themselves off as well imo
SF as opposition during this period guarentees them getting voted in after this inevitable shitshow in 5 years. Theyll be getting away with it as well.
Theres a reason why Leo literally resigned and had FF agreeing that the public want change. Both sneaking in the backdoor like this doesnt sit well with me.
Theres nothing wrong with a short tem government and assess from there.

Edit Health minister of Ireland

Remember this is coronavirus Covid-19, that means there’s been eighteen other coronaviruses and I don’t think they’ve successfully found a vaccine for any.” -

Hes never been qualified enough for the job. That is shocking. Ive long suspected our government simply hands over the reigns to people who know what theyre doing and take the credit for it with ridiculous speeches thrown in for good measure.

That works for me. For the alternative - a government who thinks they don’t need experts - take a look across the pond.

 

[sullydnl]

Ive long suspected our government simply hands over the reigns to people who know what theyre doing and take the credit for it with ridiculous speeches thrown in for good measure.

Well, yes. What else would you expect them to do? They're politicians, not public health experts or virologists. It's not like they've been in any way hiding that this is what they're doing either, they refer to the people they're taking their lead from pretty much every single day.

I mean if we're talking about being qualified to deal with this crisis then as an actual doctor Varadkar is probably technically more qualified than 99% of PMs. That still doesn't mean I'd want him dictating our response ahead of people who actually know what they're doing though.

 

[Eyepopper]

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Would have to be a tempting prospect if you're the leader of a smaller party....

I'd say Eamon Ryan ripped his cock clean off when he saw that tweet.

 

[sullydnl]

I'd say Eamon Ryan ripped his cock clean off when he saw that tweet.

Tbf the idea has its plus points.

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[Charlie Foley]

Tbf the idea has its plus points.

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[Pogue Mahone]

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Hehe.

 

[Eyepopper]

Tbf the idea has its plus points.

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To be fair, Ryan's main policy to combat Covidw19 was to make sure everyone planted vegetables on their balconies.

It takes some doing to out batshit the Healy Raes, but godamit he found a way.

Eamon Ryan will sell out the entire country to get the Greens into power, if there's a chance he can be Taoiseach he'll burn tyres on bonfire and tax the rest of us for doing it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

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Interesting data.

Kind of goes against the prevailing narrative in Irish politics these last few years, right?

 

[Massive Spanner]

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Interesting data.

Kind of goes against the prevailing narrative in Irish politics these last few years, right?

Yeah but we were the poorest country in Europe back in the 50's. A graph from the 90's to now would be more interesting.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah but we were the poorest country in Europe back in the 50's. A graph from the 90's to now would be more interesting.

The graph is a bit confusing but looks as though inequality has got much less for people born in the 1980s? Which would include the period of time you’re interested in.

 

[Massive Spanner]

The graph is a bit confusing but looks as though inequality has got much less for people born in the 1980s? Which would include the period of time you’re interested in.

Hmm maybe! Not really surprised though, we're not considered an unequal country in general are we? We have very generous social welfare and a tax system that favours those on lower incomes.

I do think since the recession there has been a notable increase in inequality though but I'd imagine that is the case in most rich countries.

 

[caid]

I think the lack of accounting for property prices in solely accounting for income kind of obscures one of the more obvious sources of inequality in Ireland today. Glad that we compare favourably but I wouldn't disregard it as a problem.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Hmm maybe! Not really surprised though, we're not considered an unequal country in general are we? We have very generous social welfare and a tax system that favours those on lower incomes.

I do think since the recession there has been a notable increase in inequality though but I'd imagine that is the case in most rich countries.

I think the lack of accounting for property prices in solely accounting for income kind of obscures one of the more obvious sources of inequality in Ireland today. Glad that we compare favourably but I wouldn't disregard it as a problem.

Would need to defer to an economist on the finer details here. I just find it interesting that the Sinners rhetoric about blueshirts portrays Ireland as a country with a far right government. Yet the last few decades have seen us go the opposite way to almost every other EU country in terms of income inequality and gain acclaim all over the world for recent implementation of progressive policies on abortion, same sex marriage and trans rights; with an openly gay second generation immigrant in charge of the country.

To be clear, I’m not a Fine Gael voter (I voted for the Greens in the last GE and am a textbook centrist dad) but am always interested in data that confounds popular opinion.

 

[Sweet Square]

Would need to defer to an economist on the finer details here. I just find it interesting that the Sinners rhetoric about blueshirts portrays Ireland as a country with a far right government. Yet the last few decades have seen us go the opposite way to almost every other EU country in terms of income inequality and gain acclaim all over the world for recent implementation of progressive policies on abortion, same sex marriage and trans rights; with an openly gay second generation immigrant in charge of the country.

To be clear, I’m not a Fine Gael voter (I voted for the Greens in the last GE and am a textbook centrist dad) but am always interested in data that confounds popular opinion.

Dublin is still I think the most expensive city to live in the eurozone(London being the most expensive in Europe), also the number of Irish people leaving Ireland is higher than the number returning(Which could possibly effect income inequality ?). It's a bit vulgar but Irish politics seems to be young Irish emigrates returning home every few years to push the country in a more progressive path and then having to leave to due to the cost of living.

Having said all of that it is a interesting data chart(Christ that sounded dull !)

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Dublin is still I think the most expensive city to live in the eurozone(London being the most expensive in Europe), also the number of Irish people leaving Ireland is higher than the number returning(Which could possibly effect income inequality ?). It's a bit vulgar but Irish politics seems to be young Irish emigrates returning home every few years to push the country in a more progressive path and then having to leave to due to the cost of living.

Having said all of that it is a interesting data chart(Christ that sounded dull !)

Cost of renting in Dublin is fecked. And has been for a while. What really makes Ireland difficult for the young is how so much stuff is centred in Dublin. London has a similar role in the UK but regional towns/cities do seem to have more to offer, career-wise, than their equivalent in Ireland.

In my more optimistic moments I wonder if so many companies realising how well they function with their workforce at home might allow the next generation to have a decent career without ever moving to Dublin.

Of course, we need to sort out our broadband SNAFU first...

 

[Sweet Square]

Cost of renting in Dublin is fecked. And has been for a while. What really makes Ireland difficult for the young is how so much stuff is centred in Dublin. London has a similar role in the UK but regional towns/cities do seem to have more to offer, career-wise, than their equivalent in Ireland.

Yeah someone posted a thread on here about how there's been a rise in people leaving London to live up north, which really isn't possible in Ireland.

Of course, we need to sort out our broadband SNAFU first...

We tried that over here in old blighty and it didn't go down so well.

Hopefully covid has changed the way people think about the world.

 

[caid]

Would need to defer to an economist on the finer details here. I just find it interesting that the Sinners rhetoric about blueshirts portrays Ireland as a country with a far right government. Yet the last few decades have seen us go the opposite way to almost every other EU country in terms of income inequality and gain acclaim all over the world for recent implementation of progressive policies on abortion, same sex marriage and trans rights; with an openly gay second generation immigrant in charge of the country.

To be clear, I’m not a Fine Gael voter (I voted for the Greens in the last GE and am a textbook centrist dad) but am always interested in data that confounds popular opinion.

Yeah thats certainly ... wrong basically.
FF were as centrist as you come, they had no meaningful political ideology. Their position changed with the wind and basically consisted of dont rock the boat.
Its hard to portray FG in that manner either due to various bits of legislation you cite. The make up of the previous dail forced their hand somewhat, probably in a convenient way for Varadkar who i think is relatively progressive. I'm not sure their position on corporate tax rates is right wing so much as ... greedy and or corrupt. Same with the bailout really. Economic Liberalism doesn't need to be far right to be undesirable. Comparisons with blueshirts are misguided at best but more likely dishonest and childish imo

 

[2cents]

Wouldn’t be too surprised given the state of the country in the 1920s. There were still inner city tenements in Dublin without running water collapsing on tenants well into the 60s. Shit I can well recall the absolute state of many estates across Dublin in the early 90s. But the story was generally one of slow but steady progress throughout those decades in terms of pulling people out of poverty/providing decent enough social housing (with some notable mistakes/setbacks of course), etc. mostly through state intervention. And then the boom years propelled so many people forward before pulling the rug out from underneath them which has obviously left an awfully bitter taste which continues to affect the perception.

What really makes Ireland difficult for the young is how so much stuff is centred in Dublin

The capital should be moved to Athlone or Portlaoise. I’m semi-serious.

 

[sullydnl]

The capital should be moved to Athlone or Portlaoise. I’m semi-serious.

Sometimes when the topic of a United Ireland comes up I idly wonder if they could pick a capital that is neither Dublin or Belfast and see what happens.