That’s why I made sure to say ‘allegedly’
Cop in America doing a bad job, again
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Since when was ‘black [people are] disproportionately stopped & searched’ overly emotional instead of a fact.
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my bad, i forgot how smart cops are these days
he's a cop dude, he and his pals are in damage control every time they murder someone or abuse their powers, give it about 5 pages and he'll get bored and start going on about being a tough man who can easily arrest you because he's all big and tough and manly
Don’t twist my words I blatantly did not say he should have tased the other guy and you know damn well I didn’t. My point was it’s one rule for black people and another for white people.
But in this case it's not. The police isn't a monolith and it doesn't exist outside of the american society. The issue is clearly Society on topics like racism, legitimate use of force and some core institutions are organized based on political ideas that purposely make them less efficient. It's also worth remembering that even in the US the vast majority of police officers will never be an issue for the communities that they serve, they will do their job with professionalism and it will never make the news. The issue is with a minority that is logically representative of a part of american society, the only way to definitely get rid of these people is by changing society otherwise you are putting a band aid on a wooden leg.
I seldom get involved in these debates because they are rarely as clear cut as they appear. I think a lot of people have good intentions when they speak and protest against these sort of things but then can sometimes get too tangled up in blaming one thing or labelling everyone the same when that is a mistake.
We both know that the person I quoted was essentially saying most police officers in the UK are thick. To me that is being an arsehole and making a sweeping generalisation.
If you made that comment against any other group of people then I would have the same reaction.
Ill try and shed some light and give an honest opinion on things about the UK Met Police. I'm not talking about American police because they're too far gone, there is something seriously fecked up over there and there doesn't appear to be anything being done to sort it out.
But I'll start by addressing your stop and search concerns, and there's a disproportionately for sure. However, if you think that is purely down to 'racist coppers' you are gravely mistaken. Racism in the police compared to 30-40 years ago is not even comparable. I'm not basing this on speculation, this is from talking to black people (men in particular)who were alive in the 70's and 80's who went through some absolute shit and that includes black officers who were bullied. So actually yes there is an improvement because of the change in 'make up' of officers coming into the force.
Secondly, you saw that Amy Cooper video in central park right? and you're aware that a significant portion of stop and searches are based around information given to police by members of the public?
I think we both know people like Amy Coopers are not in the minority, so imagine those types of calls happening all the time on a daily basis with words like 'drugs' and 'knives' thrown in for desired effect. These members of public have now put police in a position where it is their duty to do something (search, most of the time in the UK, as we know officers in the US take a different approach) You cannot assume a caller is lying. It would not have been assumed Amy Cooper was lying.
Now the theory goes if someone has nothing to hide they'll be cool and calm but if they get angry and disruptive they do, I don't think this applies a lot of the time mind. If you're a black male ' doing nothing' but people like Amy Cooper are constantly calling police on you for nothing, there are gonna be occasions where you will rightfully be pissed off and agitated. If you think these factors aren't going to have a massive effect on the figures of stop and search you'd be very naive. A lot of response officers in London don't get the time to be proactive and most of their stops will originate from calls made by the public.
Sure, pose the question to police, but also pose the question to members of public, to society, pose the question to Amy Cooper's, why are you calling police on black people for no fecking reason? and why are you lying about what they've got or are doing? what is it that makes you so uncomfortable when you see a black person 'standing around' or 'sitting in a car' or 'having a bbq'. Why do you continually confuse Asian and North African people with black people? To be fair I don't expect you or other people to know this or be able to see this wider picture but it's why sometimes 'statistics' don't tell the whole story which leads me on to the ' Corona BAME fines disproportionate' figures.
People are up in arms about this but by just having a bit of knowledge about things, its easy to see that the percentage difference between whites to black and Asians is not overly concerning. To start with the majority of those fines would have been given out by Metropolitan LONDON police officers for obvious reasons. The ratio of black and asians to whites in London, dwarfs basically everywhere else in the UK. Yet those statistics were presented as a reflection of the whole of the uk. There are barely any police officers in the counties, where it is predominantly white, so there's nobody there basically to give fines to these predominantly white people breaking lockdown rules, yet they've been included in these statistics.
Are you trying to argue that cops don't actually resort to such tactics, based on a random picture from the internet?
And it shouldn’t make the news because why should it when their job is what they’re supposed to be doing
and I am in agreement with what you said in its entirety, however, the police are supposed to be the most obvious example of upholders of the law, values, morals etc. before the community itself so before we look at society we need to look at the very people we are supposed to trust and who are supposed to set an example.Why is the police constantly calling for more of these powers when you already know how and why they only lead to racist practices?
That's not what I said, you treated the police as a monolith based on things that you see in the news. What you see in the news is generally what they aren't supposed to do and out of the millions of actions that they do you decided to base your opinion on the exceptions.And it shouldn’t make the news because why should it when their job is what they’re supposed to be doing
half of what i see of police in the news is along the lines "check out this oxford graduade who can speak arabic" about a day or two after a black guy gets murdered
I am going off tangents? are you seriously asking me in a forum to make you a draft of changing the entire police force? Maybe I can throw a M4All also in my spare time?
Catalonia, a regional part of Spain, developed from scratch a new police force that substituted the Spanish police of +90% of their duties. Built academies, police stations, deployment system, protocols, everything. And is independent of the spanish police in its entirety.
If catalonia, not even a country can do it, US can do it. Why not a state police? Every state has to built academies and in a point system based on graduation, extras (college/uni education, emergency driving license, volunteering community, marksmenship, age, etc...), years working on the force, etc... you can work in one city/department/position or another, so you might be deployed initially in an area job position (leg work) that you might not like, but after 5 years you might ask for a transfer, promotion, etc...
This way state police would not lose resources as they could only stay in that state
Then a federal agreement to transfer policemen intrastate, maybe money compensation for education.
This is just a broad idea but obviously don't have the knowledge, specifics, etc...and they don't pay me for it, but please don't be facetious to pretend that this can be explained in a forum
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Omg. The problem is that it’s systemic. No one is saying every individual officer out of millions brutalises black people or is racist. And I’m sorry but even for the ones who are ‘doing what they’re supposed to be doing’ or aren’t being racist, not enough of them hold their fellow colleagues to account or seem to want to make a difference.
Tbf one’s Police is reflective of its society. So yes police departments and their culture, policies, training, recruiting are problems. But so is the greater society. The US claims to be a first world country, but has violent crime rates more similar to 3rd world countries. Add to that the gun culture, large income disparities and the gang culture in many cities, and of course the racial diversity and the tensions that come with it, leads to the kind of society and police forces we have.
Redcafe - How can the police be so awful ?
Officers on Redcafe - Well ok our policy does disproportionately targeted black men but hey Colin in forensics can't do black face in the office any more. Oh and statistics sometimes that's all they are...............anyways taser goes on taser goes off, you can't explain that.
Was going to answer the first one but then saw the second so I'll just leave you to it, cant be bothered with agenda posting. Taking isolated posts out of contexts (even though there's about 20 of me condemning and holding to account the people involved in what we've seen in the last few days in Minesotta and New York) But whatever carry on with your cnut posts.
answer it coward
Don't need to answer to people who produce cnuty posts.
I think you are grossly misinformed if you think stop and frisk searches are based on public informing the cops. If anything it is the exact opposite and strips off any obstacles that prevent cops from searching someone based on their looks.
is it because you know you fecked by explaining why the UK police is so racist and you know why they're unwilling to give up their powers to end the systemic racism?
"look, if i can say half way critical things about the extreme examples of police abuse how can i possibly be implicated in the systemic reasons these extremes happen"Redcafe - How can the police be so awful ?
Officers on Redcafe - Well ok our policy does disproportionately targeted black men but hey Colin in forensics can't do black face in the office any more. Oh and statistics sometimes that's all they are...............anyways taser goes on taser goes off, you can't explain that.
You just did, thanks gracies
Another black man was murdered for colour of skin and our resident cops are quite concerned that people angered by this call them morons in the aftermath. I'm not an expert on intelligence, emotional or otherwise, but you would think that any actually smart person would just shut the feck up about how smart they their thug pals are.
No. The person who tweeted the video then followed it up by saying it was all speculation. I posted that a few posts above this one you quoted.
Was the poster trying to argue it was a cop based on a video?
Show me proof it was a cop.
I didn't make the accusation, sara did. She has to prove it.
Grossly mis-informed.I'm a met police officer, I've been on a response team for three and a half years. An overwhelming majority of the searches I conduct are based off calls made to police by members of the public.
I mean, people just don't like answers when you give it to them that don't fit in with what they want to hear'. I've said it time and time again, there are racist officers out there, in the Met, in the counties and then a massive amount more in the states (where in particular officers getting away with it seems to happen all the time, There's literally a post of me saying this in this thread).
How can there not be? This is just a reflection of society, racism is everywhere, its in the NHS, its in politics, its in football, its in the police force. It's been near enough impossible to eradicate it in all these areas but there efforts to curb it, well over her in the UK anyway, like I've said I don't know what's going in America but I know in the UK they are trying to educate officers, they are actively hiring more non white officers. You wont get results over night though and you certainly have to address outside issues too and by that I mean society.
People want this and that statistic explained and when you hit them with the reality that 'racist officers' don't tell the whole story, they just don't like it. Despite all the overwhelming examples of racism outside the police on a daily basis, they just cant seem to accept that the racism outside is going to form part of what happens in the police.
Oh, you're just a BS reply guy. That actually makes sense.
The painting of all cops of the one brush in this thread even the uk ones because of the actions of a few horrendous
Thats like saying every Mexican is a drug dealer because i watched narcos.
Thats like saying every Mexican is a drug dealer because i watched narcos.
I see the internet warriors are out in force again.
What a sight to behold!
@Leroy The Red you're wasting your time trying to educate people who don't want to have a rational discussion. People who talk about prejudice despite the fact their very own opinion is prejudice itself. Even @JPRouve has tried and failed.
Not sure if I should laugh or cry at the hypocrisy of it all if I'm honest.
What a sight to behold!
@Leroy The Red you're wasting your time trying to educate people who don't want to have a rational discussion. People who talk about prejudice despite the fact their very own opinion is prejudice itself. Even @JPRouve has tried and failed.
Not sure if I should laugh or cry at the hypocrisy of it all if I'm honest.
Grossly misinformed? You do realise its what he does for a living?
Stop this. I said allegedly.
What the feck are you on about?
The person that actually took the video and said it was a cop then subsequently tweeted it was all speculation.
If someone accuses the cops of starting fires they have to prove it, not me.
I was talking about UK policing if you read what I replied to. My thoughts of the US and such incidents are clear even if I do believe it's a cultural issue throughout the country that needs addressing as opposed to simply reforming police departments being the solution.
Apologies, i see you edited that in.
Im still not sure allegedly covers it.
I could say allegedly you ran over your neighbours dog. Ive about as much evidence as someone saying its police lighting the fires.
Neither happened
UK police are the same except there are no guns so it doesn’t appear as bad but things like disproportionate stop and search and general systemic abuse of power are all very much rampant in the UK too
i could just say you allegedly suck moss of a roof but who gives a shit dude, get over this nonsense pedantry, police has a long record of infiltrating protests to make them more violent and easier to arrest and even raping women so they protest less
The same as what?
Your comparing disproportionate use of stop and search powers to killing black people in the street regularly. Right.
Okay. Btw I edited it in way before me and you even had this conversation just in case you think this is some sort of ‘gotcha!’ moment. I know it would make your evening if it was.
I am confused? so because you are a cop, we should just ignore all the stop and frisk searches that took place without a warrant or discriminated against black, brown, and other minority communities?
I'm a met police officer, I've been on a response team for three and a half years. An overwhelming majority of the searches I conduct are based off calls made to police by members of the public.
I mean, people just don't like answers when you give it to them that don't fit in with what they want to hear'. I've said it time and time again, there are racist officers out there, in the Met, in the counties and then a massive amount more in the states (where in particular officers getting away with it seems to happen all the time, There's literally a post of me saying this in this thread).
How can there not be? This is just a reflection of society, racism is everywhere, its in the NHS, its in politics, its in football, its in the police force. It's been near enough impossible to eradicate it in all these areas but there efforts to curb it, well over her in the UK anyway, like I've said I don't know what's going in America but I know in the UK they are trying to educate officers, they are actively hiring more non white officers. You wont get results over night though and you certainly have to address outside issues too and by that I mean society.
People want this and that statistic explained and when you hit them with the reality that 'racist officers' don't tell the whole story, they just don't like it. Despite all the overwhelming examples of racism outside the police on a daily basis, they just cant seem to accept that the racism outside is going to form part of what happens in the police.
holy shit i didn't even notice this, we've done it folks, we've reached "cops are the real victims" point in the thread