David de Gea: I hope I can be here for many more years

[Adnan]

Seba Rossi was a very average keeper, I assure you as I watch most of Milan's game at the time. There's a reason why he never represented Italy despite being part of what I think to be the best XI I've ever seen. He wasn't very good. Yet Milan had no issues with that mainly because Baresi, Tassotti, Costacurta, Maldini and Ancelotti/Rijkaard would cover his arse. Barthez (France) is yet another example of a meah goalkeeper playing at the back of a magnificent backline.

I agree with you that a decent goalkeeper is always needed as reaching the perfection reached by AC Milan of the time is almost impossible. However what we at United ask from a goalkeeper is way beyond to that especially in the past few years. We're used to DDG constantly bailing the defence out. Once that stopped the criticism came on him like an avalanche with legends like Keane now saying that he always thought that DDG was overrated. That's disrespectful.

We won't get rid of DDG and unlike Sanchez I am not that worried about that. There's still a decent GK in DDG and he's probably still the best goalkeeper we have. However its clear that he can't do it on his own anymore. We've got a defence which costed a measly 180m-200m. Just ask yourself which of these guys would make it at first team level either in the treble side (Gaz, Johnsen, Stam, Irwin) or the 3rd CL side (Gaz, Rio, Vidic, Evra). I would struggle to come out with even 1 name. That's certainly not good enough.

I can't be bothered scrutinising this or that player. The defence should be seen as a unit rather then as individuals. Bruce and Pally were nowhere near to WC but they made it work. Same with Juventus whom back to Lippi times, used to have a very solid backline despite relying on average defenders (Montero, Torricelli, Iuliano and Pessotto). Unfortunately I can't see that happening in our present side. DDG needs to be more physical and far more vocal. Lindelof and Maguire are just too slow and honestly I have yet to understand what Lindelof brings to the table apart from the fact that he's better then Rojo and Jones. Meanwhile having 2 defensive full backs is overkill especially since Shaw isn't that great in defending either. Ah and I almost forgot, someone need to tell Fred & McT that unless they transition quickly to top quality DMs then there days as first team players will be numbered. United need players that can stand up and be counted + players that can compliment one another. Shaw-Maguire-Lindelof-AWB with McT/Fred as DM simply don't cut it. I hope we'll sort that before Henderson return. The last thing we need is for the hype to go overdrive only for the guy's confidence to be shot once its evident that he's not going to bail the idiots in front of him as good old prime DDG used to do. We've already ruined Foster's and Howard's career. Let's spare Henderson from that misery.

I also watched Milan games often and there's no doubt Rossi was a very good keeper. Sacchi bought him due to his allround game and his ability to play out from the back which was alien in many countries at the time. His ability to play sweeper keeper was quite rare at the time and I remember one season he saved several pens to save Milan's blushes. The reason he didn't play for Italy was simple. He wasn't as good as Toldo or Pagliuca and Italy at the time had a embarassment of riches in that department. The Milan team was good defensively but at the time the whole collective was geared upto to defend due to a point being awarded for a draw and 2 points for a win. But to say he wasn't a good keeper due to the collective and personnel isn't true imo. Milan under Capello won the title by only scoring 36 goals and conceding 15 one season and were outscored by 10 of the 18 teams in the division. One could make the argument that some of those legends in defence would also also struggle in a more expansive setup. Sacchi bought Rossi due to the player fitting into the revolutionary style he had implemented and wanted a keeper with a particular profile. If you asked Guardiola or Van Gaal on who they'd pick out of De Gea or Ederson and I have no doubt they'd both choose the Brazilian due to his superior ability on the ball which is a big part of both coaches coaching mantra. So in the same way, it was Sacchi's footballing mantra that took precedence when choosing Rossi as his keeper.


I've never rated De Gea as being world class which is a minority view on here but a popular one in the keepers homeland. To only be good at shot stopping isn't good enough and his allround game just isn't good enough. Worldclass players prove themselves for club and country at the highest level and De Gea has never done that and he plays for a very good international team. Contrast that with the allround brilliant Schmeichel who elevated lowly Denmark and was a key cog for them winning the Euros. That's what you call world class and I agree with Keane because the standards of world class shouldn't begin and end at domestic level. De Gea has been a very good shot stopper in the English league but out of that he's been found wanting.

Barthez was good for France. He might not have been world class but was good in goal for them when they won the WC.

Lippi did have a well drilled unit defensively but also had Angelo Peruzzi in goal who was a very good allround keeper even if he was a little on the short side but was genuinely world class and proved it in the champions league too.

I don't know if Henderson is gonna be good enough for us long-term but feel he has put himself into contention for a chance as our #1. And I also disagree that the confidence of the likes of Howard and Foster was shot when given the chance. They just weren't good enough for the standard required and had never played at EPL level before unlike Henderson.

 

[tenpoless]

Jones is dog shit. These days he's nothing more then a meme. Smalling is in my opinion a better option then Lindelof. However that really doesn't say much either.

Theyre shit but still defenders. De Gea isnt as shit and marked as expired.

 

[devilish]

I also watched Milan games often and there's no doubt Rossi was a very good keeper. Sacchi bought him due to his allround game and his ability to play out from the back which was alien in many countries at the time. His ability to play sweeper keeper was quite rare at the time and I remember one season he saved several pens to save Milan's blushes. The reason he didn't play for Italy was simple. He wasn't as good as Toldo or Pagliuca and Italy at the time had a embarassment of riches in that department. The Milan team was good defensively but at the time the whole collective was geared upto to defend due to a point being awarded for a draw and 2 points for a win. But to say he wasn't a good keeper due to the collective and personnel isn't true imo. Milan under Capello won the title by only scoring 36 goals and conceding 15 one season and were outscored by 10 of the 18 teams in the division. One could make the argument that some of those legends in defence would also also struggle in a more expansive setup. Sacchi bought Rossi due to the player fitting into the revolutionary style he had implemented and wanted a keeper with a particular profile. If you asked Guardiola or Van Gaal on who they'd pick out of De Gea or Ederson and I have no doubt they'd both choose the Brazilian due to his superior ability on the ball which is a big part of both coaches coaching mantra. So in the same way, it was Sacchi's footballing mantra that took precedence when choosing Rossi as his keeper.


I've never rated De Gea as being world class which is a minority view on here but a popular one in the keepers homeland. To only be good at shot stopping isn't good enough and his allround game just isn't good enough. Worldclass players prove themselves for club and country at the highest level and De Gea has never done that and he plays for a very good international team. Contrast that with the allround brilliant Schmeichel who elevated lowly Denmark and was a key cog for them winning the Euros. That's what you call world class and I agree with Keane because the standards of world class shouldn't begin and end at domestic level. De Gea has been a very good shot stopper in the English league but out of that he's been found wanting.

Barthez was good for France. He might not have been world class but was good in goal for them when they won the WC.

Lippi did have a well drilled unit defensively but also had Angelo Peruzzi in goal who was a very good allround keeper even if he was a little on the short side but was genuinely world class and proved it in the champions league too.

I don't know if Henderson is gonna be good enough for us long-term but feel he has put himself into contention for a chance as our #1. And I also disagree that the confidence of the likes of Howard and Foster was shot when given the chance. They just weren't good enough for the standard required and had never played at EPL level before unlike Henderson.

Sacchi bought Rossi as a reserve for Pazzagli. Despite being his kid at Cesena, Sacchi refused to give him a cap with Italy and he didn't took him to USA 94 preferring Pagliuca, Bucci and Marchegiani to him. That speak volumes of how much he was rated by his former manager especially considering that Sacchi took a squad mostly made up of players from his previous clubs (7 from AC Milan, 7 from Parma) with just 7 players from other clubs. Successive managers kept Rossi out of the national team as well.

DDG is the best shot stopper United ever had in my lifetime. He may weaker in terms of leadership and air prowess but his shot stopping more then compensate to that. In my opinion he's the second best keeper throughout Sir Alex reign. I would only rate Schmeichel ahead of him. DDG was the first keeper to win the Sir Matt Busby award of the year and between 2013 - 2019 he won it 4 times out of 6 include 3 years were he won it in a row. Therefore I think he deserves a bit of respect.

Finally United had been blessed with three absolute stars (Schmeichel, VDS, DDG) in the past 30 years or so. We struggled whenever we didn't had a top top goalkeeper at the back. That trend needs to change especially there's not many (or any) Schmeichels, prime DDGs and VDS around. It's time for the defence to stand up and be counted. I can't see us doing well with Henderson or any other goalkeeper in goal, not unless we sort defence up first.

 

[Adnan]

Sacchi bought Rossi as a reserve for Pazzagli. Despite being his kid at Cesena, Sacchi refused to give him a cap with Italy and he didn't took him to USA 94 preferring Pagliuca, Bucci and Marchegiani to him. That speak volumes of how much he was rated by his former manager especially considering that Sacchi took a squad mostly made up of players from his previous clubs (7 from AC Milan, 7 from Parma) with just 7 players from other clubs. Successive managers kept Rossi out of the national team as well.

DDG is the best shot stopper United ever had in my lifetime. He may weaker in terms of leadership and air prowess but his shot stopping more then compensate to that. In my opinion he's the second best keeper throughout Sir Alex reign. I would only rate Schmeichel ahead of him. DDG was the first keeper to win the Sir Matt Busby award of the year and between 2013 - 2019 he won it 4 times out of 6 include 3 years were he won it in a row. Therefore I think he deserves a bit of respect.

Finally United had been blessed with three absolute stars (Schmeichel, VDS, DDG) in the past 30 years or so. We struggled whenever we didn't had a top top goalkeeper at the back. That trend needs to change especially there's not many (or any) Schmeichels, prime DDGs and VDS around. It's time for the defence to stand up and be counted. I can't see us doing well with Henderson or any other goalkeeper in goal, not unless we sort defence up first.

Rossi not playing for the Italian NT doesn't mean he wasn't a good goal keeper for Milan. Sacchi probably chose the best #1 for the role due to merit and that was Pagliuca and choosing a nut case like Rossi in reserve might not have been a good idea for squad harmony. But when Sacchi brought him to Milan it was due to a specific way of playing the game that he had in mind which was a rejection of the cattenaccio principles which were the norm at the time. Rossi was expected to help with the build up and due to being good with the ball and having sweeper qualities he was ideal for what Sacchi wanted hence my comparison to what Guardiola and Van Gaal would do if given a choice between Ederson and De Gea. Rossi's ability to help Sacchi maintain a high line due to his ability on the ball and speed off his line was ideal for Sacchi ball. Who do you think Sacchi would choose as keeper between Rossi and De Gea if given the choice? The answer is Rossi because De Gea doesn't have the attributes that Sacchi ball demanded. And as far as Rossi being back up to Pazaggli is concerned. That only happened for one season before Pazaggli departed the club after only making 48 appearances for Milan. Rossi was undisputed #1 after that one season.

De Gea is a keeper that best suits a team that is struggling that defends deep. He literally has one stand out attribute which is shot stopping. And that one attribute is deserting him and has been deserting him for sometime. The stronger we become defensively the less need we have for a keeper that is purely a shot stopper. It would suit us to have a keeper who is vocal, can command his area and has the ability sweep in a high line, none of which De Gea excells in. Not only will it help the coach from a tactical POV due to the tactical flexibility it would give us. It would also really help our CBs to have a more dominant presence in goal to deal with aerial threats. It would improve our defence to have a proactive keeper and De Gea isn't a proactive keeper but a reactive one which best suits teams who play with their backs to the wall and not teams who want to dominate and impose their game which we will look to do.

I don't know if Henderson is the answer in the long-term, but it sure ain't De Gea who stays rooted to his spot and puts even more pressure on the CBs to win aerial balls in a deep line or defend space in a high-line. A goal keeper who is proactive would improve the collective and give us another string to our bow tactically.

 

[Andy_Cole]

No thanks David

 

[Rolaholic]

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[Pearl's a minger]

Although not de gea's biggest fan, I still think he has some credit in the bank. Since sir alex left he has undoubtedly been our most consistent/best performer. (don't think for a minute if we were actually competing for the big honours would a goalkeeper be anywhere near player of the season). Whether or not his head has been turned only he knows. But unfortunately with his huge contract renewal he's hardly likely to be going anywhere soon. I'd love for him to return to his 'a' game but the pressure on him will only be magnified now with Henderson's performances this season. Without being privvy to what goes on behind the scenes I'd say he's here for at least another season before Henderson gets integrated. As others have stated when you have a dubious defence (at times) in front of you it stands to reason you will be more than likely to be a whole lot busier and make more mistakes. The weaknesses in the team in my opinion, magnify the goalkeeping deficiencies.