Paul Pogba's Passing

[BenitoSTARR]

I don't think I've seen enough games with us specifically to say for certain. But his France exploits in winning shows how he can control games. He has an ability to inspire others with what he does on and off the pitch, so to that extend he can make other players more confident and in turn indirectly control the game.

Tempo wise, he definitely always wants the ball and is always looking for a forward pass, has quick feet and definitely able to play those quick intricate passes to ensure we can unlock a solid deep defense. It's why people say he is the key to unlocking those bottom table defense, cause naturally creative players can control the tempo of a game through their vision and passing, the key to that is of course if your teammates are on the same wavelength.

I’m very confident he can to be honest I think he’s shown internationally an ability to do it but as you allude to it does require others to be able to work with him.

I think Rashford, Bruno and Martial are on that wavelength and I can see Sancho benefitting too.

I think by being that game changer he can quickly change the tempo and therefore control a game.

There isn't a CM who controls and dictates game on his own. It all depends on the team and manager.

Team should be on same wave length to control games.

Agreed, but as vague a term it is I think he has all the skills to quickly change the pace of an attack or take the pressure off a team being pressed for example.

 

[bsCallout]

This proves Pogba can play further back to influence the game.

We have such a complete creative duo in Pogba & Bruno in that there attributes are almost the opposite and compliment each other so well.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's a really weird one because everyone can agree on the fact that Pogba is inconsistent but it's not really from one game to the other but within the same game. In all games Pogba will show his best and his worst, he always creates chances, break lines but he also always has a brainfart in terms of defensive positioning or he will completely miss hit a pass. And for what its worth De Bruyne has the same issue.

I’m not sure I agree. Within game inconsistency tends to happen with creative players. We saw it all the time with Giggs. Bruno Fernandes is the same. Consistently taking risks can result in giving up possession with what looks like really poor decisions/ passes. Where De Bruyne and Fernandes (so far) differ from Pogba is that the former two players don’t produce the really rank 90 minute performances Pogba has produced far too often at United.

But anyway, this isn’t the thread for that discussion. We’re talking about his passing. Which is usually very good. Long range passing anyway.

 

[JPRouve]

I’m not sure I agree. Within game inconsistency tends to happen with creative players. We saw it all the time with Giggs. Bruno Fernandes is the same. Consistently taking risks can result in giving up possession with what looks like really poor decisions/ passes. Where De Bruyne and Fernandes (so far) differ from Pogba is that the former two players don’t produce the really rank 90 minute performances Pogba has produced far too often at United.

But anyway, this isn’t the thread for that discussion. We’re talking about his passing. Which is usually very good. Long range passing anyway.

I don't really see where we disagree, I didn't suggest that it wasn't part of being a creative player. And the bolded part is something that both @Rozay and I have talked about it in the past, it's an exaggeration, these performances don't happen often for Pogba and everyone has failed to prove otherwise.

 

[stepic]

it’s a killer

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

To believe I got a post warning cause I scoffed at the klan saying we were better off without him

Vive la Pogba FC

He is our best player.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

His long range passing is why managers play him in a double pivot in front of the defense

 

[BR7]

Pogs needs legs around him to be effective. He isn’t defensively minded and can’t be relied upon defensively for 90 minutes let alone an entire season. As an attacking minded player he’s very talented and can beat players with a swivel and drop of a shoulder and then provide a killer pass. His passing range is impressive but his long range efforts and free kicks are speculative or appear to be so. The question is what formation do you play and where do you play PP in that formation?

 

[Striker10]

I think people tend to be too critical of him. We've not created a good environment where he can thrive in. Hopefully that changes. We just need to be challenging for trophies and going in the right direction. But quality players show moments of quality and he was our best winger. James should look at that play and learn from him.

For me, I want him high up the pitch but at the very least have the freedom to get into creative areas.

 

[Yagami]

The crazy thing is that he almost always finds his target regardless of the difficulty and range of the pass. Compare that to Bruno who's a good passer himself but is very hit and miss, and it makes his accuracy even more impressive.

 

[hasanejaz88]

He reminds me of Gerrard in his passing. Gerrard would also ping some brilliant cross field passes, which would be played over and over again, but then what would not be mentioned more are the many others that he attempt but miss. Pogba is similar, he has the ability to play passes that few others can (as illustrated against Spurs to Rashford), but his passing accuracy levels are well below his contemporaries such as Kroos and Modric currently, and Pirlo before. Don't think he's amongst the best passers in the world, he needs consistency to be able to match others.

It's one concern I have of playing Bruno and Pogba together. Both seem like flashy passers but, with both, we need someone who is better at holding and recycling possession, rather than giving it away often. Someone like how Alonso was to Gerrard, there was a reason Rafa never trusted Gerrard to be his primary deep playmaker. Although the added concern is also that with Bruno and Pogba, you will need someone who is defensively very sound as well.

Certainly exciting to have creative players like Bruno and Pogba together, but might also be very frustrating.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Long range passes? Yeah, it's ridiculously awesome.

Other types of passes? not really. It's still good, but not as awesome.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Would you say he can control games?

Would you say he can dictate tempo?

1) No.

2) Dictate means ability to quicken it or slow tempo at will (<-- difficult rare skills).
So no.
But Pogba tend to quicken the tempo naturally.

 

[Jeppers7]

I’m not sure I agree. Within game inconsistency tends to happen with creative players. We saw it all the time with Giggs. Bruno Fernandes is the same. Consistently taking risks can result in giving up possession with what looks like really poor decisions/ passes. Where De Bruyne and Fernandes (so far) differ from Pogba is that the former two players don’t produce the really rank 90 minute performances Pogba has produced far too often at United.

But anyway, this isn’t the thread for that discussion. We’re talking about his passing. Which is usually very good. Long range passing anyway.

Living in Manchester I have friends who are City fans and they’ve talked in the past of De Bruyne going through three month periods of bad form. It just doesnt get reported.

 

[In Rainbows]

He reminds me of Gerrard in his passing. Gerrard would also ping some brilliant cross field passes, which would be played over and over again, but then what would not be mentioned more are the many others that he attempt but miss. Pogba is similar, he has the ability to play passes that few others can (as illustrated against Spurs to Rashford), but his passing accuracy levels are well below his contemporaries such as Kroos and Modric currently, and Pirlo before. Don't think he's amongst the best passers in the world, he needs consistency to be able to match others.

It's one concern I have of playing Bruno and Pogba together. Both seem like flashy passers but, with both, we need someone who is better at holding and recycling possession, rather than giving it away often. Someone like how Alonso was to Gerrard, there was a reason Rafa never trusted Gerrard to be his primary deep playmaker. Although the added concern is also that with Bruno and Pogba, you will need someone who is defensively very sound as well.

Certainly exciting to have creative players like Bruno and Pogba together, but might also be very frustrating.

I agree that we still don't have that midfielder who is like Modric, Xavi, or Scholes. They're pretty rare.

 

[criticalanalysis]

De Bruyne also seems to hurt teams with his passing much more. He puts crosses in from wide areas that put goals on a plate for the attackers. I’m not really sure why but you very rarely see Pogba put in a good cross.

Pogba is rarely in those positions to put the crosses in the first place but if you watch his highlight reels, whenever he is in the wide areas he has put in plenty of brilliant crosses/moments of play. Couple of assists to Rashford (Bournmouth), Martial (Newcastle? at OT), Zlatan against Liverpool (no goal though) etc all come to mind.

He's usually taking the ball off our defenders i.e deep or playing behind your Lingards/Rashfords/Martials/James etc, where De Bruyne is alongside.

On top of that our general team play and the movement of our forwards are disjointed. Your Sterlings/Sanes/Jesus/Ageuros are scoring goals for fun in the well trained and executed 6-yard square ball lay offs. Martial and Lukaku have the movement of wet sand in the penalty box.

Saying that, De Bruyne has definitely shown a high success rate with wide crossing and penetrative passes. It's just another 'unfair' comparison that in one thread we compare his passing to an advanced attacking player (in a high pressing attacking team) and we also ask does he control games/dictate tempo.

 

[Jeppers7]

Pogba is rarely in those positions to put the crosses in the first place but if you watch his highlight reels, whenever he is in the wide areas he has put in plenty of brilliant crosses/moments of play. Couple of assists to Rashford (Bournmouth), Martial (Newcastle? at OT), Zlatan against Liverpool (no goal though) etc all come to mind.

He's usually taking the ball off our defenders i.e deep or playing behind your Lingards/Rashfords/Martials/James etc, where De Bruyne is alongside.

On top of that our general team play and the movement of our forwards are disjointed. Your Sterlings/Sanes/Jesus/Ageuros are scoring goals for fun in the well trained and executed 6-yard square ball lay offs. Martial and Lukaku have the movement of wet sand in the penalty box.

Saying that, De Bruyne has definitely shown a high success rate with wide crossing and penetrative passes. It's just another 'unfair' comparison that in one thread we compare his passing to an advanced attacking player (in a high pressing attacking team) and we also ask does he control games/dictate tempo.

Some people just have a negative view on anything Pogba....even a positive is turned into a negative despite context. Darren Lewis on Sunday Supplement this morning was saying we need to move away from that (we being the media) for obvious reasons I suspect in the current climate. Watching United on Friday and as a massive Bruno fan I have to say I found Nevilles take on Bruno’s first half performance strange. He put a really positive slant on the pass that the Spurs defender spooned with his head to Rashford, but you could easily have put a negative slant on it or even just ignored the pass as it was poor but led to a chance....certainly didn’t need to be bigged up. I’d be surprised if Neville felt the same had Pogba played such a pass.

 

[simplyared]

Incredible talent. He's on another level no doubt about that!

 

[criticalanalysis]

He reminds me of Gerrard in his passing. Gerrard would also ping some brilliant cross field passes, which would be played over and over again, but then what would not be mentioned more are the many others that he attempt but miss. Pogba is similar, he has the ability to play passes that few others can (as illustrated against Spurs to Rashford), but his passing accuracy levels are well below his contemporaries such as Kroos and Modric currently, and Pirlo before. Don't think he's amongst the best passers in the world, he needs consistency to be able to match others.

It's one concern I have of playing Bruno and Pogba together. Both seem like flashy passers but, with both, we need someone who is better at holding and recycling possession, rather than giving it away often. Someone like how Alonso was to Gerrard, there was a reason Rafa never trusted Gerrard to be his primary deep playmaker. Although the added concern is also that with Bruno and Pogba, you will need someone who is defensively very sound as well.

Certainly exciting to have creative players like Bruno and Pogba together, but might also be very frustrating.

The issue with those examples that you mentioned is when have those players been the primary and almost sole creative outlet from central midfield? The answer is that they have never needed to be because they play in a well rounded team (relatively speaking) that has creative threats all over the pitch.

Then we should ask, now when has Pogba played in a well rounded team? The answer is France/Juve and the results is there for all to see tbh.

Pogba deserves a lot of justified criticism and that shouldn't be absolved but there is so much context just lumped aside because the team in general has been playing like absolute crap the past however long.

 

[Igor Drefljak]

Do many actually question his talent?
My issue is his head.

I'd love him to sign a new deal and be committed to this club

 

[Maticmaker]

It is amazing that so many posters on here seem to have just discovered what Pogba can do. For me there has never been any doubt about what he can do, only about when he was going to do it.

It must be heartache and nightmares for his managers, never knowing which side of the bed he has got out of (or whatever it is that decides) whether Paul the WC player turns up, or Paul the 'can't be ars** player turns up on any specific day *

 

[Rozay]

Living in Manchester I have friends who are City fans and they’ve talked in the past of De Bruyne going through three month periods of bad form. It just doesnt get reported.

It would get reported if City barely managed to win any games in that spell and fell off the pace. When your team wins, only positive contributions are discussed.

United have have great world class players under Sir Alex that had many bad games that were not significant or remembered. A random poor game from Paul Scholes at The Riverside in December where Ronaldo or Van Nistelrooy won the game regardless, and United still win the league is erased from history. Redcafe can quickly tell you about a bad Pogba game at St.Mary’s from two years ago that still bothers them.

For example, there’s a good chance De Bruyne didn’t necessarily play well in all those games City struggled and needed late Sterling winners a couple of years ago. I doubt anyone cares or remembers - and they probably just assume he did if they are to think back to it now. City broke all records that season, De Bruyne was a key part. That’s all that matters on reflection.

 

[hasanejaz88]

The issue with those examples that you mentioned is when have those players been the primary and almost sole creative outlet from central midfield? The answer is that they have never needed to be because they play in a well rounded team (relatively speaking) that has creative threats all over the pitch.

Then we should ask, now when has Pogba played in a well rounded team? The answer is France/Juve and the results is there for all to see tbh.

Pogba deserves a lot of justified criticism and that shouldn't be absolved but there is so much context just lumped aside because the team in general has been playing like absolute crap the past however long.

I thought that initially as well, that you can argue Kroos/Modric play safer passes and therefore have higher percentages, but even in statistics like key passes (non set-piece) both Modric and Kroos have higher numbers than Pogba. Pogba's long pass completion rate does not vary significantly between Juve (72%), France (69%*) and United (68%).

For Kroos, his long pass completion is also consistent at 85% for Bayern, Germany* and Madrid.

* is because the international team statistics are only for major tournaments, not friendlies.

I'm getting these stats from whoscored.com btw.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

It would get reported if City barely managed to win any games in that spell and fell off the pace. When your team wins, only positive contributions are discussed.

United have have great world class players under Sir Alex that had many bad games that were not significant or remembered. A random poor game from Paul Scholes at The Riverside in December where Ronaldo or Van Nistelrooy won the game regardless, and United still win the league is erased from history. Redcafe can quickly tell you about a bad Pogba game at St.Mary’s from two years ago that still bothers them.

For example, there’s a good chance De Bruyne didn’t necessarily play well in all those games City struggled and needed late Sterling winners a couple of years ago. I doubt anyone cares or remembers - and they probably just assume he did if they are to think back to it now. City broke all records that season, De Bruyne was a key part. That’s all that matters on reflection.

Sensible post!

 

[sammsky1]

It is amazing that so many posters on here seem to have just discovered what Pogba can do. For me there has never been any doubt about what he can do, only about when he was going to do it.

It must be heartache and nightmares for his managers, never knowing which side of the bed he has got out of (or whatever it is that decides) whether Paul the WC player turns up, or Paul the 'can't be ars** player turns up on any specific day *

No one has ‘just discovered’ him. He just doesn’t display his skills and abilities often enough. And when he does, it seems like it’s for his own glorification and not for the team. I’m not sure if he is able to perform consistently well.

Now we also have Bruno and a good selection of strikers, I’m hoping Pogna can play just for the team, which itself will allow him to shine. He can’t hide behind the ‘only decent player’ in the squad excuse any more. In fact he has no more excuses.

Let’s see what happens in rest of this season.

 

[TheReligion]

To believe I got a post warning cause I scoffed at the klan saying we were better off without him

Vive la Pogba FC

He is our best player.

Agree with this. He's fantastic and I think he can really flourish with Bruno helping to take the strain.

 

[criticalanalysis]

I thought that initially as well, that you can argue Kroos/Modric play safer passes and therefore have higher percentages, but even in statistics like key passes (non set-piece) both Modric and Kroos have higher numbers than Pogba. Pogba's long pass completion rate does not vary significantly between Juve (72%), France (69%*) and United (68%).

For Kroos, his long pass completion is also consistent at 85% for Bayern, Germany* and Madrid.

* is because the international team statistics are only for major tournaments, not friendlies.

I'm getting these stats from whoscored.com btw.

You would certainly hope those players have better statistics with the team mates they have, which was sort of my original point.

His own performance/responsibility aside, how much of his productivity/consistency or the lack of it is because his surroundings? I'd love to see one of Kroos or Modric play in the team under Mourinho, with Lindelof behind, an aging Matic/non-playing Fred, Lingard in front of him and a front three, who were are all learning their trade and under 25. Don't forget Young/Valencia etc.

The likelyhood is that for all their quality, we would probably be expecting unrealistic expectations of them like why aren't they dominating the midfield? Bit like why Carrick when exposed time and time again, we would lament his lack of mobility (which is justified criticism) then ignore him playing in a midfield two with Giggs/whatever combination.

 

[SirAnderson]

I think for me what I also like is that he is always trying to be positive in his passing, which is what often makes people think he is not good with the basic stuff, because even with the basic stuff, he is doing risky things, whether that's a good or a bad thing is another story. Here's a clip of his game against Spurs and you see some of those positive passes. Coming from years of sideways nonsense, we need this to break down the lower teams.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Adam-Utd]

No one has ‘just discovered’ him. He just doesn’t display his skills and abilities often enough. And when he does, it seems like it’s for his own glorification and not for the team. I’m not sure if he is able to perform consistently well.

Now we also have Bruno and a good selection of strikers, I’m hoping Pogna can play just for the team, which itself will allow him to shine. He can’t hide behind the ‘only decent player’ in the squad excuse any more. In fact he has no more excuses.

Let’s see what happens in rest of this season.

This is a load of rubbish though to be honest as his performance against Spurs wasn’t anything unusual, he plays like that all the time.

the difference will be now is we have a much better team performing around him. If he’s having an off day then Fernandes can help. Before that it was “pogba can’t carry us” but now he’s not required.

it’s nice he’s been getting some appreciation this week as many people just see all the tabloid crap said about him and some people lap it up. I have no doubt be will be a huge driving force towards the end of the season.

 

[Jeppers7]

It would get reported if City barely managed to win any games in that spell and fell off the pace. When your team wins, only positive contributions are discussed.

United have have great world class players under Sir Alex that had many bad games that were not significant or remembered. A random poor game from Paul Scholes at The Riverside in December where Ronaldo or Van Nistelrooy won the game regardless, and United still win the league is erased from history. Redcafe can quickly tell you about a bad Pogba game at St.Mary’s from two years ago that still bothers them.

For example, there’s a good chance De Bruyne didn’t necessarily play well in all those games City struggled and needed late Sterling winners a couple of years ago. I doubt anyone cares or remembers - and they probably just assume he did if they are to think back to it now. City broke all records that season, De Bruyne was a key part. That’s all that matters on reflection.

Yep...I actually look back at Pogbas first season....he was magnificent all in all.

 

[SirAnderson]

Yep...I actually look back at Pogbas first season....he was magnificent all in all.

I think it was more in the cups. We had a poor showing overall in the league. But still, him and Zlatan kinda carried us that year.

 

[Skills]

I think it was more in the cups. We had a poor showing overall in the league. But still, him and Zlatan kinda carried us that year.

Funnily enough, Zlatan missed a bucket load of chances in the first half of that season that Pogba put on a plate for him. But his league cup final performance made everyone forget that.

 

[SirAnderson]

Funnily enough, Zlatan missed a bucket load of chances in the first half of that season that Pogba put on a plate for him. But his league cup final performance made everyone forget that.

Yeah I remember feeling frustrated at that. There were so many. Watched this video that shows his overall movement and passes that's season.

 

[romufc]

People talk about Pogba's lack of form but Ole has brought the best of him.

When he came in, he was firing and at the end of the season everyone went off the boil.

This season started well and got injured.

He has to start from now.

 

[hasanejaz88]

You would certainly hope those players have better statistics with the team mates they have, which was sort of my original point.

His own performance/responsibility aside, how much of his productivity/consistency or the lack of it is because his surroundings? I'd love to see one of Kroos or Modric play in the team under Mourinho, with Lindelof behind, an aging Matic/non-playing Fred, Lingard in front of him and a front three, who were are all learning their trade and under 25. Don't forget Young/Valencia etc.

The likelyhood is that for all their quality, we would probably be expecting unrealistic expectations of them like why aren't they dominating the midfield? Bit like why Carrick when exposed time and time again, we would lament his lack of mobility (which is justified criticism) then ignore him playing in a midfield two with Giggs/whatever combination.

That argument would've held had Pogba had much better passing statistics for Juventus and France, or better than Kroos and Modric, but he doesn't. Even when looking at metrics like key passes, he's done better at United than Juventus and France, in some seasons. Pogba was playing for the dominant league team in Juventus, alongside some of the world's best, so over there he wouldn't have the excuse of not playing for a great team like Kroos and Modric have.

I'd also want to have a look at xG and xA statistics as well. Some thing I imagine at Real is that with Ronaldo, they would take a lot of 30 yard pot shots that would count as a key pass, but not really a good chance created. Would be interesting to see if Kroos and Modric have higher key passes, but lower xA's than Pogba.

 

[FootyGirl88]

His passing is unreal, best in the league.

 

[Rozay]

‘Doesn’t release the ball’.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Yeah I remember feeling frustrated at that. There were so many. Watched this video that shows his overall movement and passes that's season.

The amount of crap his own fanbase have given this player is embarrassing.

What.A.Player.

 

[TheNewEra]

If United recruit well in the next transfer window, and they start to challenge for honours and they recruit well in the following summer I can see Pogba staying into his 30s.

Madrid of course will always be sniffing around, especially given Modrics advanced age, I think Pogba is getting to the age where he won't really move around a lot.

At 27-28 you are approach your peak years as a midfielder, so it's critical he has the right players around him now.

It's one reason I think why De Gea is a bit more committal now, also given how the big clubs have long-term keepers he will stay.

Pogba also saw United as home to return from Juventus, you can't blame him for wanting to leave at stages given he was head and shoulders above every other player on the pitch.

With Pogba at the club in previous years it felt a bit like when Robinho went to City for the first time, he was clearly better than the rest of the squad. Even when of course United obviously have the history they do, and still being (financially) a powerhouse with one of the largest fan bases, on the pitch was a different story.

With Bruno, Maguire, Pogba, AWB, De Gea (who I still think will rebound, he needs to focus, it's almost like he's distracted) the team is starting to shape up again to be something special.

Surround Pogba with 2 or more top players and I think he will look even better than he does now, because he will have the right runs ahead of him.

 

[Redfrog]

I feel, as we saw against Spurs, our best midfield is Pogba alongside Matic and Bruno. We need a miefielder who can shield the defence and play good through balls, another one more box to box physical and with exquisite passing abilities and an eye for the goal (Pogba) and a more advanced one who is hardworking (Bruno).
Ideally I would like someone on competition with Matic who is younger and faster but with a good positional sense and a very good passing range.
I like Scott and Fred. They are usefull squad players but not good enough on the ball to be starters.
I think Pogba is more usefull playing a bit deeper then Bruno as his long passing range is class and he can run with the ball.