That would be madness. 29 year old who relies completely on his work rate with average technical ability. This will end in tears if any club spends big money.
N'Golo Kante | Chelsea Player
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Can you dispute that statement, given the polar opposite seasons the two have had?
They've had pretty similar seasons, I'd say. The expectations were different.
Quite possibly the most overrated player in the world. No thanks.
Really?!?
In just about every aspect statistically Fred trump's Kante.
Fred's performances have been pivotal to United's resurgence, only taking a back seat once Pogba came back into the fold.
Kante on the other hand has largely been a passenger in that Chelsea midfield, and has spent time out with injury.
Expectations do not change reality.
Earlier in the season he was being compared to Bakayoko in terms of disaster of signing, a good spell coinciding with a bad spell for Kante doesn't suddenly make him better.
For example, if for the first few months of next season Pogba has a massive rut in his form while Barkley has a purple patch and starts scoring or assisting nearly every game, would that suddenly make Ross the better player?
How is that funny? Fred plays a better role than the one Lampard wants kante to play.
Considering Fred has Kante soundly beaten in every department statistically throughout the season, I'd say your statement of having similar seasons is incorrect and inherently wrong on just about every level.
Fred started the season off fairly average but by 5/6 games in had started to find his feet and was probably one of the first names on the team sheet.
Kante however appears to be disposable for Chelsea, and has been so throughout this and part of last season too.
Soundly beaten? He's made 0.1 more tackles per game; Kante has made 0.6 interceptions more per game. Kante has made more clearances. Fred is dribbled past 3 times as frequently - 2.7 times per game versus 0.9. Kante has scored 3 goals to Fred's 0. Fred dribbles slight more, shoots more frequently, and draws more fouls. Fred also passes more accurately & frequently, though most of Kante's appearances this year have come further up the pitch in a role as an 8.
If you want to argue that Fred is more likely to be the better player over the next 3 seasons, that's a more interesting question that's up in the air. It's absurd to say that he's "soundly beaten" Kante statistically this year.
Is workrate really that effected by age? Explosiveness and speed is generally what you lose, so I always find it weird when older players are excused for lower workrates. For example in long distancing running, 5-10km runners often make the transition to the marathon into their 30s.
That might've been a ridiculous statement 2 years ago but based on this season alone, it's not all that laughable. Fred's been really good this year.
111m on Lautaro Martinez. 85m on Kante.
Bloody hell. I cant decide which valuation I find more funny.
Bloody hell. I cant decide which valuation I find more funny.
It does, isn't it? We have seen with players like Rooney, Sanchez who were gassed out easily when they were older. SAF used to play Fletcher alongside Keane to compensate his lack of work rate when he was older.
Running in straight lines at steady pace is different from covering 10-11 kms in football game.
It impacts recovery, definitely. There may not be a visible decline in a one-off event but over the course of a season it’s a different thing.
Fred has scored twice this season to Kantes three, that's the only area he is beaten. He has three assists to Kante none, zero, zilch.
Has more interceptions, more tackles, more blocks, better passing percentage, nearly double the amount of forward passes, way more chances created etc etc.
Not sure what website you're looking at, I've checked four different sites now and got the same outcome.
I was restricting it to the PL only, since it's disingenuous to compare Europa league & Champions League stats.
The €111m for Lautaro is his release clause. Madrid already made an ~€80m offer for Kante supposedly.
Bad examples to give really, none of the players you've listed have really looked after themselves, Sanchez is a crock, Rooney is now playing in midfield for Derby but also had fitness issues, Keane had his own fitness issues.
Matic is over 30 yet works his socks off and is frequently the player covering the most distance in a game,
Giggs was the same, Ronaldo is 35 yet works non stop, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets is over 30, all ran/run a huge amount still, plenty more examples.
Or you've moved the goalposts to suit your agenda?
Even so, taking just premiership games into account, Fred is comfortably ahead in nearly everything based on multiple sources I've found.
So same difference really.
Giggs was the same? Did you see Giggs running up and down the wings when he was older? Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets are not the players whose main asset was work rate. Their mobility declined when they were older. Not sure how anyone can argue against that.
Matic's work rate or lets say his mobility was so much better when he was younger and playing for Chelsea. Matic's playing style is not same as Kante's. Matic jogs and barely sprints, Kante is exact opposite.
I didn't say all players decline in same way, Kante is physical player who replies on his pace, work rate. Those are his best assets, not technical ability. So he would be bad investment at this age, especially for 80+ million.
You suggested Barca would pay 111m .. A lot of players have unrealistic release clauses .. no one is paying anywhere close to that for Martinez..
And I would like a source for the 80m bid.. All I can see is Chelsea setting an asking price.. The same way Leicester asked for 80m for Chilwell.
No one is paying 80m for Kante..
If someone does, they should be locked up.
The state of this thread is a bit odd. Kante in his preferred position is still the best CDM around and moving to Chelsea and being asked to play an attacking role has hindered him a fair bit and he needs to move on to a club that can utilise him effectively.
Waiting for this sensible comment to be ridiculed...
...What? You think actually making a comparison that's valid is moving the goalposts?
Also, if you are correct that he's comfortably ahead, go ahead and list the numbers. I pulled everything from WhoScored and have never really found them to be wrong.
We'll have to see re: Lautaro. I could easily see it being a 9 figure deal considering he's still only 22 and that Inter are financially comfortable after the Icardi sale.
Also just checked and you're right - it wasn't a bid, it's what Chelsea told Real Madrid they'd have to pay, according to AS. My mistake.
Had 2 great seasons and has since become everyone’s pick for worlds best DM (he’s not a DM) & vastly overrated. Hasn’t been good since 2017.
Little technical ability, and workrate heavy. Expect a big decline as he moves into his 30s. If im Chelsea I’m cashing in now. £85m would be exceptional for him.
Little technical ability, and workrate heavy. Expect a big decline as he moves into his 30s. If im Chelsea I’m cashing in now. £85m would be exceptional for him.
He’s not a DM, he’s never been a DM. He is a centre midfielder. He’s always played his best football in a midfield 2, in a 4-4-2 at Leicester & a 3-4-3 at Chelsea. Whenever used as the deepest midfielder for France he’s poor.
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Don't get wrong, I don't want Kante at all,
But Giggs ended up in midfield, covering more distance than most players half his age!!
The other side to Matic is his reading of the game, he rarely has to make back tracking runs as his positional sense is excellent, Kante however consistently has to back track to cover ground, that speaks volumes for his positional game.
But yeah, you're right, everyone ages differently and he would be a poor investigation.
I guess the 2018 World Cup never happened
Are you for real??
I've just checked who scored and Fred's stats comfortably outweigh them of Kantes.
Although I must say that website is a little basic.
Stats at the end of May have Fred as having one less interception than Kante, yet having 3 more blocks, 16 more tackles, nearly double the amount of forward passes (418 to 239), and I'd expect the interception rate to be higher for Fred now too.
Could pick many more examples but I suspect you get the idea.
I mean if you're looking at raw totals instead of per game figures when Fred has played ~430 odd minutes more, then sure. That's a silly argument though.
Also, it's far easier for Fred to play forward passes because he's been sitting deeper than Kante this season. Stats without context are pointless.
Tbf Fred has better passing stats when it comes to key passes, long passes, passes per 90 mins. Fred is better passer than Kante, doubt there is much to argue there. Fred's through passes are very good. Kante's is obviously better midfielder but there are attributes where Fred is better than Kante, passing is one of them.
I agree with that - didn't meant to imply that I thought otherwise. He's also a better dribbler. If I had to pick one of the two to have on my team for the next 3 seasons I'd have to think long and hard about it (at the moment I'd probably lean towards Fred but it'd depend on who else I'd have in midfield).
I like Fred generally! I just took issue with the statement that he's "soundly beaten" Kante in every statistical category this year.
I would love to have Kante in our midfield. We should just swap
No takebacks if he's crocked!I would love to have Kante in our midfield. We should just swap
Also you have to pay 40m
Ah of course, so now stats are pointless, which is fine, and of course, how could I take into consideration the fact that Fred plays on average two yards behind Kantes average position!
Also, let's scrap the assists, successful dribbles, passing percentage (which Fred's is higher despite playing more games) successful tackle percentage (which takes into consideration tackles won v lost) all of which Fred is ahead(and all stats which matter not the amount of games that are played, if anything it's easier to skew in Kantes favour as he has less game time) then we're left with this:
who's made a bigger impact for their respective sides now then...
Fred, instrumental to United's improved form, Kante....injured, below par and missing in nigh on every big game.
Honestly, you're flogging a dead horse! It's quite clear that Fred has had a far better season than Kante, and is the reason we shouldn't even contemplate a move for Kante, and is probably the reason we are not going too.
Instrumental to your improved form yet cannot even sniff the starting XI right now? Whilst Kante is clearly first choice, was the key to our best performance of the season (the 2-1 vs City), and in his absence our midfield has more holes in it than a salt shaker.
Look, I'm not denying that Fred has had a good season or that he beats Kante in various stats - you said that he's "soundly beaten" Kante in every statistical category. This is plainly not true.
Pogba has come back into the fold, along with Matic, we have distinct options now in midfield which is something we haven't had the rest of the season, it says little about the abilities of Fred.
Alas, we will agree to differ, but it is true that Fred has had a better season than Kante in every way, both statistically and from a subjective point of view.
What? Of course it says something about the abilities of Fred if he's not getting anywhere close to your first choice midfield.
And yes I agree, Fred has had a better season statistically if you include all the Europa league games against crap opposition, don't actually adjust based on minutes played, and ignore all the stats where he hasn't been as good as Kante.
Ah yes, Pogba comes back and takes Fred's place, says something about the ability of Pogba rather than Fred, but of course if you think Fred is a better option than Pogba carry on...
I love it when people use the 'crap' opposition argument! Means they are well and truly out of proper reasoning behind their points. Those 'crap' opposition happen to be in a European competition but of course they aren't Lille so they're not 'elite'!!
I didn't ignore the stats where Kante was better than Fred, I even said he had more interceptions, but that was the only one, so not too much to focus on really!
You need to watch a full game when he is fully fit.
He is there mopping everything up, intercepting, tackling. Kante is a DM, he is one of the best ball winners in the world. His passing is the weakest attribute in comparison to others but you want your DM just to win the ball and play it to the creative players.
If Lampard plays him as a 6 in Chelsea's system, he'd do well, but Chelsea will still be all over the place a the back.
Chelsea has typically played with one deep midfielder in Jorginho, Glimour, etc. The other two central midfielders whether they are Barkley, Kovacic, Mount, Kante himself at times, do not form a good partnership with the deepest midfielder and effectively that line of players (e.g. back three, back four) or that layer across the pitch is technically one person...and as far as I'm concerned, Kante hasn't anchored a midfield quite like that. At Leicester he had Drinkwater and played in a counter attacking side with Okazaki pressing relentlessly ahead of him. With Chelsea under Conte, I believe that's correct, Kante played in a 3 CB system which added to the team's shape and allowed Kante to run around midfield and harass and attack balls coming through the middle while still maintaining a solid defensive shape around him.
Chelsea has typically played with one deep midfielder in Jorginho, Glimour, etc. The other two central midfielders whether they are Barkley, Kovacic, Mount, Kante himself at times, do not form a good partnership with the deepest midfielder and effectively that line of players (e.g. back three, back four) or that layer across the pitch is technically one person...and as far as I'm concerned, Kante hasn't anchored a midfield quite like that. At Leicester he had Drinkwater and played in a counter attacking side with Okazaki pressing relentlessly ahead of him. With Chelsea under Conte, I believe that's correct, Kante played in a 3 CB system which added to the team's shape and allowed Kante to run around midfield and harass and attack balls coming through the middle while still maintaining a solid defensive shape around him.
A fit Kante is a fantastic footballer, I can only see injuries and age being the reason Chelsea are opting to cash in on one of their best players.
It's obviously part the rebuild process they are going through.
It's obviously part the rebuild process they are going through.