Dean Henderson has to be our #1 next season? Poll added

[Revan]

4 and 5 are a bit harsh to be called mistakes. He could have done better, and a peak De Gea (or some other great keeper) likely would have defended them, but definitely they aren't mistakes.

The others were bad, no excuses for any of those.

 

[SAFMUTD]

‘My point about the loyal isn’t being an actual loyal thick and through but he didn’t just go for free when he actually could like other players. Whatever definition you want to call it, I expect you to be smart enough to understand it. If he leaves for free the club will be in disadvantage to lose such a keeper without having a refund to get for replacement.

He wasn’t offered a massive wages when he signed a new contract in 2016. You were talking about Eriksen & Sanchez who asked for ridiculous contract if their choice is to stay, different to DDG. DDG got an improved contract because that’s how a new contract works.

He wasnt offered massive wages in 2016? He was on 200k a week, he already was the highest paid GK in the world, dont let the 300K he is on today make you think that 200K is a low quantity.

Erikseen and Sanchez asked for ridiculous money? how does asking for a 50% pay rise when you are already are the best paid GK in the world sounds?

 

[ayushreddevil9]

When people are suggesting we drop De Gea for Romero in the last two PL games yes I think it’s reactionary.

If you want a GK who is good with their feet and distribution De Gea is better than Henderson in that metric. Your arguing against what you claim to want by making that change.

How many errors has Henderson made this season? Under less pressure with less scrutiny. Lots.

I like Henderson and would love him to be the successor to De Gea but the solution isn’t throw him in at the deep end and chuck De Gea.

All I said was if we are playing error prone GK, it should be Henderson.

Also, please refer to this: https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/error_lead_to_goal

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Your logic doesn't work on professional top level, that's why I mentioned Sunday League.

You are only reading what I wrote without understanding them. This is the issue about having discussion with you, you need to be explained to every single tiny detail. I got no time to explain the bold mark, I think you are smart enough to understand it.

If you understand the difference between striker & keeper then you shouldn't be comparing them. Not complex, never compare something that is different.

Why do you think people remember Andy Cole United goals more than his United missed but people remember Tim Howard United mistakes more than his United saves? That should give you clear idea.

There is no difference in the points you gain/lose in the scenario. It doesn’t matter what level of football it’s 3 for a win 1 for a draw 0 for a loss.

I understand I just disagree. And I believe you should be clear if you claim we only have more than one striker that isn’t true. I shouldn’t have to help you make your points.

You can understand the difference and still compare how their roles impact points gained or lost. I of course do not believe they are the same but the effect is similar enough.

I understand what you are saying about some people remembering misses more than saves but honestly I remember far more of DeGeas saves than his errors? Maybe it’s a mentality difference between us?

Regardless none of that is relevant to the point I was making. That De Gea should be given a chance to rectify his mistakes in the last game in the same way a striker gets another chance to score.

I get your point, a striker missing a sitter and a GK gifting a goal both equality have the same impact theorically. But in reality it doesnt work that way, missing a sitter even though it affects the result equally it doesnt affect the morale of the team the same way.

Strikers and keepers are not judged with the same stick, a striker can miss 1 or 2 sitters in game and score and will be evaluated as having a good match. A keeper can save 3 amazing shots and gift a goal and will be judged as having an awful performances.

A keeper cant make mistakes, its harder to make a goal that to defend it thats why is punished a lot more if you gift your opponent one rather than missing one yourself.

Scoring a goal also affects morale it improves it just as much as conceded dents it.

I agree GKs are judged more harshly but what I am saying is that it will do nobody any good to bench De Gea based on an awful performance against Chelsea. It will ruin more things then it could fix.

All I said was if we are playing error prone GK, it should be Henderson.

Also, please refer to this: https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/error_lead_to_goal

So De Gea has made 3 mistakes and saved 91.

So of all opportunities to make a mistake 97% of situations he’s dealt with this season he has done a good job with and we want him kicked out for the 3%?

IMO I think it’s stupid to drop him these next two games.

Next season is a different matter.

 

[Adnan]

Paul Hirst in The Times is reporting that some United players are concerned with the amount of mistakes De Gea has made in the last 2 years. And even Sergio Romero was annoyed at not being given the chance to play the Cup game. Hirst also says that Romero could start at West Ham. Hirst also says that De Gea has been poor in some training sessions too.

I think he has to drop him if the players in the team have lost faith in him which is damning.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...er-string-of-errors-by-david-de-gea-m9tk6jmk2

 

[Adnan]

From the Paul Hirst article in The Times..

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[tenpoless]

Play Romero till the end of the season.

 

[Lash]

Paul Hirst in The Times is reporting that some United players are concerned with the amount of mistakes De Gea has made in the last 2 years. And even Sergio Romero was annoyed at not being given the chance to play the Cup game. Hirst also says that Romero could start at West Ham. Hirst also says that De Gea has been poor in some training sessions too.

I think he has to drop him if the players in the team have lost faith in him which is damning.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...er-string-of-errors-by-david-de-gea-m9tk6jmk2

I actually thought Maguires face for the goals painted a picture that he had really given up on him. Thought I was reading into a bit, but might be the case...

 

[Adnan]

Play Romero till the end of the season.

I think Ole will have to if the players have lost faith him in him as reported by Paul Hirst.

 

[tenpoless]

I think Ole will have to if the players have lost faith him in him as reported by Paul Hirst.

Yup, can't be good to our aim which is the top 4 spot.

 

[Adnan]

I actually thought Maguires face for the goals painted a picture that he had really given up on him. Thought I was reading into a bit, but might be the case...

Solskjaer can't play him if Hirst is correct because that will set a very bad precedent.

 

[Sad Chris]

Henderson tonight for example let in a shot that De Gea is well accustomed to dealing with yet it would be entirely unfair to say he’s not good based on that expectation.

I think this is a good point. Yes, De Gea has had a handful of blunders in recent times. On the other hand, many of us take many of his saves for granted.

I‘m not convinced that Henderson will be as good for us as many seem to hope. Nobody criticised him for the conceded goal mentioned above, yet if De Gea had conceded it the Caf would be livid.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

There is no difference in the points you gain/lose in the scenario. It doesn’t matter what level of football it’s 3 for a win 1 for a draw 0 for a loss.

I understand I just disagree. And I believe you should be clear if you claim we only have more than one striker that isn’t true. I shouldn’t have to help you make your points.

You can understand the difference and still compare how their roles impact points gained or lost. I of course do not believe they are the same but the effect is similar enough.

I understand what you are saying about some people remembering misses more than saves but honestly I remember far more of DeGeas saves than his errors? Maybe it’s a mentality difference between us?

Regardless none of that is relevant to the point I was making. That De Gea should be given a chance to rectify his mistakes in the last game in the same way a striker gets another chance to score.

I'm speaking about general. Not every team playing with 1 striker.

Again, you are only reading what I post not understanding the point. The point is not about what you remember. The point was to tell you that the view on striker & keeper are different, your logic by comparing them just doesn't work. You can defend whatever you want but I don't see it right to use striker as comparison.

 

[Denis' cuff]

Fans reacting negatively to two full seasons of awful performances, starting with what was statistically the worst ever performance by a goalkeeper in world cup history, is hardly knee-jerk.

What stats was that, mate? Just curious.

 

[VP89]

For those who have seen Henderson a lot over this season (and even before), do you think there's actually much between him and DDG? I thought Henderson is prone to too many howlers too. When I watch him he does seem solid enough otherwise, but I do think he looks a tad stocky, and maybe it's just me but he looks slow on the dive for low shots. One example was Leicester's goal against him where the ball sort of went under him as he tried to dive for it.

 

[Lash]

Solskjaer can't play him if Hirst is correct because that will set a very bad precedent.

Yeah, just read the article. That would be a bold move. The rumours about Alavarez seem to be confounded with that as well, with the training sessions being poor.

 

[Bilbo]

I've always backed De Gea and have been a massive fan of his, but he is putting himself into a difficult position now. I'm still reluctant to give up on him just yet.

Every goalkeeper in history can and will make mistakes. Its unavoidable. I do believe that variance and luck will always play a part with all goalkeepers, and perhaps De Gea is simply on the wrong side of the curve at the moment. However the mentality & confidence of a keeper is undeniably significant - probably more so than any other position - and IMO every mistake that is made increases the probability of another one following soon after, simply because its in his head. Its the same with strikers. The best ones aren't thinking about what to do, or worrying about missing, they just do it, but missed chances increase the probability of further missed chances.

Anyone who doubts how hard it must be for a manager should think about this situation. Our entire season could now rest on a mistake, or a brilliant save, from De Gea or Romero, so how do you possibly make that decision? De Gea is undoubtedly a better keeper than Romero, and keeping him in the net is the best decision. His stats over the season have been fine, and lets not forget that we've conceded very few goals in the last few months.

Next season? Who knows. I'm not convinced that Henderson is ready yet. He has also made mistakes this season, but he has the luxury of being in an environment where he can make mistakes and it not be the headline tomorrow, and that will be good for his development.

 

[Adnan]

Yeah, just read the article. That would be a bold move. The rumours about Alavarez seem to be confounded with that as well, with the training sessions being poor.

Poor in training matches too is taking the piss.

This reaction by the coaching staff was likely at both Lindelof and De Gea after Chelsea's opener.

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[Lash]

Poor in training matches too is taking the piss.

This reaction by the coaching staff was likely at both Lindelof and De Gea after Chelsea's opener.

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Yeah, I was a bit torn to have a go at Lindelof for the first, because it's a clever and well timed run and physically Giroud uses his body well against most defenders. Just more a concentration issue so late in the half.

 

[pratyush_utd]

Some here will get reality check when Henderson start making GK errors. Nobody notices mistake when you play for Sheffield United. De Gea has been pretty much keeping us in Top half of the table for last seven years. This narrative that he has been horrible for last 2 years is just not true.
Quite conveniently "he has been poor in training session" articles are coming up after he had a bad game.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I think this is a good point. Yes, De Gea has had a handful of blunders in recent times. On the other hand, many of us take many of his saves for granted.

I‘m not convinced that Henderson will be as good for us as many seem to hope. Nobody criticised him for the conceded goal mentioned above, yet if De Gea had conceded it the Caf would be livid.

I also see lots of people wanting a modern GK sweeper keeper etc which Henderson is not.

I think the members of the CAF have decided De Gea isn’t world class and won’t accept an ok/good keeper.

The question id like answered is who do the CAF think the template should be for our next GK?

I'm speaking about general. Not every team playing with 1 striker.

Again, you are only reading what I post not understanding the point. The point is not about what you remember. The point was to tell you that the view on striker & keeper are different, your logic by comparing them just doesn't work. You can defend whatever you want but I don't see it right to use striker as comparison.

Most teams play single striker systems now in top leagues.

Of course I’m reading what you post I can’t read minds.

Strikers win you points, GKs protect the points you have but ultimately a miss is potentially two points lost and a goal conceded one lost.

For those who have seen Henderson a lot over this season (and even before), do you think there's actually much between him and DDG? I thought Henderson is prone to too many howlers too. When I watch him he does seem solid enough otherwise, but I do think he looks a tad stocky, and maybe it's just me but he looks slow on the dive for low shots. One example was Leicester's goal against him where the ball sort of went under him as he tried to dive for it.

I don’t believe there is any significant difference and honestly though unpopular I think people will be disappointed if they believe he’s “modern”.

 

[Corey]

Watching this makes me sad to be honest. It feels like only yesterday David was the world's best keeper and we were watching compilations of amazing saves; now we're watching compilations of terrible mistakes.

Two years is too long to be bad form, I think David has simply declined. Not sure it's his reflexes, his eyesight or something mental (which must be crucial as a keeper). Probably a combination of factors.

I feel bad saying this but I think the time has come for David to be replaced as number 1. I'd play Romero for the rest of the season, then bring back Henderson and let the two compete for the spot next season. If neither proves good enough, then we'll have to buy a new keeper next Summer.

If/when David gets phased out, let's remember to treat him with respect for being such a great servant to the club. It also wouldn't surprise me if his mental health has suffered the last two years.

 

[Mcking]

Personally i would let Romero go and bring Henderson in as DeGea's back-up for a year or two to see how he gets on.

That doesn't help anyone as far as I'm concerned. It would get in the way of the flow of Henderson's career, and likely deprive us of a potentially top goalkeeper.

Romero himself has been a good number two, and deserves to stay at the club if he wants to.

De Gea I imagine would be better off moving on than having a talent like Henderson bang on his heels. The goalkeeping position is not really one for competitions.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Some here will get reality check when Henderson start making GK errors. Nobody notices mistake when you play for Sheffield United. De Gea has been pretty much keeping us in Top half of the table for last seven years. This narrative that he has been horrible for last 2 years is just not true.
Quite conveniently "he has been poor in training session" articles are coming up after he had a bad game.

All keepers make errors and let in saveable shots. The best measure is to look at a keepers PSxG-GA over the course of the season which indicates how a keeper has fared against all attempts compared to the average of his peers.

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DDG is at par whilst Henderson has conceded 8 less than should be expected over the course of the season. If DDG had performed similarly to Henderson (and Allison) this season in this aspect then we'd have conceded the same or less than Liverpool.

If you look at our xGA as a team then we've conceded the roughly same quality of chances (1 goal less rounded) to the opposition over the season as Liverpool have.

https://understat.com/league/EPL

If we had a keeper that had performed like Henderson has this season overall then I don't think it's outlandish to suggest that we'd be at least ahead of City. Moreover I think all the data shows that DDG is our single biggest problem going forward.

 

[Mcking]

Some here will get reality check when Henderson start making GK errors. Nobody notices mistake when you play for Sheffield United. De Gea has been pretty much keeping us in Top half of the table for last seven years. This narrative that he has been horrible for last 2 years is just not true.
Quite conveniently "he has been poor in training session" articles are coming up after he had a bad game.

I'd say De Gea, not Henderson, is the question. Whether Henderson is the answer though remains to be seen.

It is becoming ever so obvious that De Gea is no longer up to the task, so no point in sticking with him. We have a promising goalkeeper in Henderson waiting for a chance. Why not give it to him and see how he does? If he is not good enough either, then there's the transfer market.

 

[Adnan]

Some here will get reality check when Henderson start making GK errors. Nobody notices mistake when you play for Sheffield United. De Gea has been pretty much keeping us in Top half of the table for last seven years. This narrative that he has been horrible for last 2 years is just not true.
Quite conveniently "he has been poor in training session" articles are coming up after he had a bad game.

Whether Henderson is good enough is irrelevant because the club will give him a chance. If he isn't good enough he'll be easily moved on and we'll likely get a decent transfer fee. I personally voted for 'bring someone new in' but the quicker we get Henderson in the better because De Gea isn't the answer.

 

[diarm]

If we brought Henderson back for the summer, could we register him for the Europa League?

Could be a good way to test the waters and see how ready he is for a United shirt.

 

[Cassidy]

Some here will get reality check when Henderson start making GK errors. Nobody notices mistake when you play for Sheffield United. De Gea has been pretty much keeping us in Top half of the table for last seven years. This narrative that he has been horrible for last 2 years is just not true.
Quite conveniently "he has been poor in training session" articles are coming up after he had a bad game.

For the last 2 years he has cost us positions in the table rather than kept us higher than we should be

 

[Tom Van Persie]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...er-string-of-errors-by-david-de-gea-m9tk6jmk2

Spoiler

Dean Henderson believes that he is good enough to displace David De Gea as Manchester United’s No 1 next season, but he will seek another loan move unless he receives assurances that he will have a serious chance of being first choice at Old Trafford.

De Gea’s place in Ole Gunnar Solskjaer’s team has been brought into question again after he let Mason Mount’s shot squirm through his hands in United’s 3-1 FA Cup semi-final defeat by Chelsea — the latest in a string of costly blunders.

Solskjaer could replace De Gea, 29, with Sergio Romero for tomorrow’s crucial match at home to West Ham United but, in the longer term, Henderson, 23, is convinced that he can displace De Gea as Solskjaer’s first-choice goalkeeper next season after enjoying a successful second year on loan with Sheffield United.


It is understood that the England Under-21 international is willing to return to Old Trafford next season, but only if Solskjaer suggests that he will have a chance of being No 1. If not, the academy graduate, who is expected to be called up to the senior England squad in September, will seek a loan move elsewhere.
Sheffield United want Henderson back next season but he may seek a loan move to a bigger club if a suitable offer comes along.

Henderson is also believed to be in talks with United over a new and improved deal. His present contract, which he signed 12 months ago, expires in two years’ time and is worth £35,000 a week. He is after a bigger deal worth about £100,000 a week after his form at Bramall Lane has enhanced his reputation. De Gea signed a new four-year contract worth £375,000 a week last September.
Henderson is regarded as one of the best English goalkeepers in the Premier League alongside Nick Pope, of Burnley, and Gareth Southgate’s No 1, Jordan Pickford, who has struggled at times this season for Everton.


De Gea’s form is a source of concern for Solskjaer and his squad. It is understood that some United players are worried about the fact that De Gea has made several costly mistakes over the past two years. This season alone the Spain international has been culpable for conceding soft goals against Tottenham Hotspur, Everton and Watford.

In some training sessions this season, his performances have not been up to scratch either, according to sources.

Solskjaer’s decision to start De Gea ahead of Romero annoyed the 33-year-old, who had played in each of United’s FA Cup games until last weekend. Romero, who joined United on a free transfer in 2015 and has won 96 caps for Argentina, is arguably the best back-up goalkeeper in the Premier League. He has kept 38 clean sheets in his 59 appearances for the club.

Solskjaer will need an assured performance from whoever he picks in goal tomorrow. A win would lift United above fourth-placed Leicester City, whom they play in the final game of the season on Sunday. Chelsea, who are one point and one place above Leicester, take on Liverpool tomorrow before facing Wolverhampton Wanderers in their final match.

Eric Bailly, meanwhile, has thanked the supporters who wished him well after he suffered a head injury in an aerial collision with Harry Maguire, his team-mate, on Sunday. The 26-year-old United centre back was taken to hospital but was released on Sunday night.

“I am OK,” he wrote on Twitter. “It was just a scare. I feel the pain of yesterday’s defeat even more. But we have to get back up and refocus on the two big games we have this week.”

 

[Nytram Shakes]

I think you have to give De Gea another season considering the contract we have just given him. Literally 0% chance of selling him, as no one is going to come close to matching those wages, probably not even half of them, and he has about 5 years left on his contract, so basically if we drop him we have another Sanchez style issue on our hands except over an even longer period.

 

[stevoc]

That doesn't help anyone as far as I'm concerned. It would get in the way of the flow of Henderson's career, and likely deprive us of a potentially top goalkeeper.

Romero himself has been a good number two, and deserves to stay at the club if he wants to.

De Gea I imagine would be better off moving on than having a talent like Henderson bang on his heels. The goalkeeping position is not really one for competitions.

Well personally i'm not 100% convinced about Henderson yet, so i'd rather transition between DeGea and Henderson. With Henderson hopefully becoming a top keeper and replacing DeGea while being his back-up in .the mean time. Instead of booting out one of our best ever goalkeepers in the blind hope that Henderson is the real deal.

Romero is a great no2, he was brought in as a no2 but that's all he'll ever be. He's been a great servant and i wouldn't mind him staying but with DeGea and Henderson both in the squad i don't think he would ever play, so it would be better for his career to move on.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Nobody has answered this yet so what type of goalkeeper do you want?

And which player in the PL for example do you think has all the skills we want?

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Nobody has answered this yet so what type of goalkeeper do you want?

And which player in the PL for example do you think has all the skills we want?

Dean Henderson.

 

[future2future]

Anybody thought about Onana? Been doing great last few years for Ajax, is strong with his feet and wants to make a move and is available relatively cheap at £35m

 

[izec]

He has the right mentality. I would give him 2 years to prove he is good enough. The first year might be up and down, but hopefully the second season will be the one making him the undisputed no 1.

I have high hopes.

 

[Leftback99]

If it wasn't for his ridiculous contract it would be an easy decision to be looking for a new keeper whether it's Henderson or someone else. It's another Sanchez situation.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Dean Henderson.

So what skills do you believe Henderson has that fits what we need? More so than what De Gea can offer.

 

[Dec9003]

If it wasn't for his ridiculous contract it would be an easy decision to be looking for a new keeper whether it's Henderson or someone else. It's another Sanchez situation.

Agreed but we can’t just keep De Gea because he’s on a big wage or this team will go nowhere.
We really need to learn as a club to be more careful about handing out unbelievable contracts, there’s too much risk that a player will lose motivation imo.

 

[izec]

Anybody thought about Onana? Been doing great last few years for Ajax, is strong with his feet and wants to make a move and is available relatively cheap at £35m

He is good on the line. Excellent with his feet and is rushing out well. Would be like an upgrade on Romero.

My issue with Onana would be high balls into the box. The PL is unforgiving in that regard and Onana looked shaky to me in the CL with that. I always thought he would be perfect for Spain or Germany.

 

[bsCallout]

Whilst we have Henderson on the books he should be given the chance over De Gea.

If he isn't good enough then we'd just be buying a new keeper we would have had to buy anyway.