Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[romufc]

Finishing third would be akin to finishing 2nd under Mourinho.

Most people believe that Liverpool have won league because of the fact that the leagues weaker. Or do you think that Liverpool is the greatest ever team in PL history?

We're the best of a really bad bunch.

Alot of people still celebrate that 2nd place finish from Jose here.. I have seen that as an argument to sack Ole because he took over a team that finished 2nd..

So there can only be one? Win the league because the teams are weaker or the greatest ever PL team?

Come on, Liverpool have posted 98 and 96 in 2 seasons. They won the CL last season as well. I do like to put a downer on the scousers but lets not act as if they are one of the best teams in Europe.

The prem being weaker doesn't mean what has been done should be put down. Remember when we had a tactical manager and Leicester won the league? That was when the PL was weak and we finished 5th? With a proven manager.

 

[anant]

Yes I agree. But relatively speaking we ha e failed in our approach for 7 years. Liverpool managed to grab a title but making a tough decision in sacking a manager who brought through youth, played very attractive football and was a slip away from wining them a title. The did so in knowing whilst taking a risk they was employing a manger with a better pedigree. Now Rodgers was young in manager terms and he also had the potential to get better (he does have titles under his belt now). So I take your point on board and your justified in your thinking but in my view there are managers there who are better than Ole which would do better with these current crop of players that would push us on to a tile challenge and a very good Champions League team. You have to remember teams do have cycles and he’s building a very good team ready for a cycle but he’s not the man to take us further with what we have.

Credit to him for what he’s produced so far however.

Again, Rodgers got the boot when they were on the way down. I literally can't recall a manager having got the boot when they were rising, maybe a few at Watford and a couple of sackings at RM in early part of the millenium apart.

 

[Mainoldo]

Rogers got the boot when Liverpool turned to shit. Not when he was on the up there.

you start your post by agreeing but then add in a stupid but

They could have stuck by him.

Anyway you was going to comment on the managers list and tell me why Ole is better than them.

 

[Zlatan 7]

They could have stuck by him.

That’s not what we’re talking about though. You’re wanting to replace Ole while the team is on an upwards curve

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Again, Rodgers got the boot when they were on the way down. I literally can't recall a manager having got the boot when they were rising, maybe a few at Watford and a couple of sackings at RM in early part of the millenium apart.

Rodgers wasn’t doing bad at all. But the Liverpool board saw a better manager & went for it. Which is what we should do

 

[Mainoldo]

That’s not what we’re talking about though. You’re wanting to replace Ole while the team is on an upwards curve

Just edited my response. I want a comment on my list of managers.

 

[anant]

Rodgers wasn’t doing bad at all. But the Liverpool board saw a better manager & went for it. Which is what we should do

Liverpool were 10th after 8 games that season. Had a negative GD. They had missed CL the previous season and all their signings were duds. They saw that the team was going down and they took the decision

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

For me I almost want to fire Ole more if we reach CL. Just since it could be the time to push on with a top manager and challenge for the league if we get Sancho or similar quality.
If we fail then Ole can do the building work at the ground just fine.
Just not seeing Ole as a league winning manager for us.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Just edited my response. I want a comment on my list of managers.

I went back 3 pages and couldn’t find them. I did find the two posts that probably contain 1 or 2 of the managers and put those to you.

Anyway, I don’t dispute that there’s better managers out there, I’m not one to say Ole is the best of the bunch. My argument is that the team is in the up and it would be a bad time to stop that and start again. Unless there was an absolute all time great manager available, I don’t think there is, and therefore don’t think the potential risk is worth it at the moment

 

[romufc]

Exactly there’s loads of better managers around the world. Ole is NOT our only option like they try to make out

The reason why you should have a bit more faith.

Again isn’t it amazing that a good manager makes a team better. Leicester have a much better manager than us & have a good season & optimism ahead.

We don’t & have no chance of Europe. We’ve made our decision sticking with Ole so that’s it for this season

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Liverpool were 10th after 8 games that season. Had a negative GD. They had missed CL the previous season and all their signings were duds. They saw that the team was going down and they took the decision

He’d also got them very close to winning the league couple years before, back in the champs league, & yes the finished 6th on 62 points the year before he got sacked.

It was a shock when we left & was replaced with Klopp, no doubt about it

 

[Rafaeldagold]

The reason why you should have a bit more faith.

We still may not get Champs League & Leicester still may finish above us .

It was only possible as Leicester clearly have a less talented team then ours. Just shows what good coaching can do to a team to have them in with a chance of Champions League when there actual level is about 6/7th

 

[AshRK]

Your disclaimer is the main point though.

But there are not any managers like Klopp though including Pochetino. So as per your logic we should sack every manager who is not klopp or pep.

 

[Bilbo]

This thread has gone back to what it was early in the year. Everybody's opinion on Ole seems to be firm and immovable. The only thing that changes is the direction of the argument.

The difference now is that this has all become so active again after 1 defeat in 20 and with the team currently in 3rd place. Removing all agendas, and biases, doesn't anyone find that a little ridiculous?

 

[Steve Bruce]

This thread has gone back to what it was early in the year. Everybody's opinion on Ole seems to be firm and immovable. The only thing that changes is the direction of the argument.

The difference now is that this has all become so active again after 1 defeat in 20 and with the team currently in 3rd place. Removing all agendas, and biases, doesn't anyone find that a little ridiculous?

It is competely ridiculous.

Ole got Bruno in and managed to get us playing nice attacking football. Unfortunately the squad lacks severely in quality in depth & that's contributed towards the last few games of poor performances.

He deserves support by everyone, not because of what he did in 99, but because he has improved this team and it's style so much since the start of the season. He deserves next season to try and challenge.

 

[romufc]

Just edited my response. I want a comment on my list of managers.

Pochettino
Tunchel
Nigelsmann
Ten hag
Rose

All better managers than what we have. That’s 5 and they all play good football the right way.

Here we go:

Pochetinno - A very good manager, I agree but what has he won.. he had a very good spurs side and bottles the league. Go have a look at his results last season and this.

Tuchel - What has he achived? Every PSG manager wins the league and gets knocked out the CL with some of the most talented players in the world.

Naggleseman - Very promising manager, can he handle United? Has he managed big players?

Ten Hag - Again could be a very good manager but he had a great season last - What has he done this season in the CL? he hasnt improved/

Rose - Again what has he done? How do you know he will get us playing good football or win us a title

Naming managers for the sake of it because they doing well in other leagues is fine but be realistic. Not saying Ole is better than but I want the next manager to win us the title. Who of the above will win us a title?

 

[Mainoldo]

I went back 3 pages and couldn’t find them. I did find the two posts that probably contain 1 or 2 of the managers and put those to you.

Anyway, I don’t dispute that there’s better managers out there, I’m not one to say Ole is the best of the bunch. My argument is that the team is in the up and it would be a bad time to stop that and start again. Unless there was an absolute all time great manager available, I don’t think there is, and therefore don’t think the potential risk is worth it at the moment

Fair comment. Atleast your honest about it.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Here we go:

Pochetinno - A very good manager, I agree but what has he won.. he had a very good spurs side and bottles the league. Go have a look at his results last season and this.

Tuchel - What has he achived? Every PSG manager wins the league and gets knocked out the CL with some of the most talented players in the world.

Naggleseman - Very promising manager, can he handle United? Has he managed big players?

Ten Hag - Again could be a very good manager but he had a great season last - What has he done this season in the CL? he hasnt improved/

Rose - Again what has he done? How do you know he will get us playing good football or win us a title

Naming managers for the sake of it because they doing well in other leagues is fine but be realistic. Not saying Ole is better than but I want the next manager to win us the title. Who of the above will win us a title?

All of those are worthy of being our manager more so than Ole. You’ve even admitted they are better than Ole.

We expect to improve our playing squad- why not the management side???

 

[Mainoldo]

But there are not any managers like Klopp though including Pochetino. So as per your logic we should sack every manager who is not klopp or pep.

No. Just judge everyone accordingly. What Ole is doing is not going to have the same outcome as SAF or Klopp or even Brendan Rodgers. But yet these examples are constantly used as a view of hope. Just judge him how you currently see it. If you believe in what he’s doing I’m sure it’s not just on the basis Klopp got time as the only way that would make sense is if he had the same problems as Klopp and his style or abilities were similar.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Here we go:

Pochetinno - A very good manager, I agree but what has he won.. he had a very good spurs side and bottles the league. Go have a look at his results last season and this.

Tuchel - What has he achived? Every PSG manager wins the league and gets knocked out the CL with some of the most talented players in the world.

Naggleseman - Very promising manager, can he handle United? Has he managed big players?

Ten Hag - Again could be a very good manager but he had a great season last - What has he done this season in the CL? he hasnt improved/

Rose - Again what has he done? How do you know he will get us playing good football or win us a title

Naming managers for the sake of it because they doing well in other leagues is fine but be realistic. Not saying Ole is better than but I want the next manager to win us the title. Who of the above will win us a title?

I have a feeling that if we had taken on naggelesman or ten hag and they had the exact same season as Ole the same people would be saying, see told you so and happy with them.

What Ole has done with the front 3, bringing through greenwood. rashford and martial 20+ goals, Some of the goals have been absolute pleasure to watch, unbeaten streaks, signing Fernandes and the impact he added. It’s all been a joy, yes some things are questionable but that would be the case with absolutely anyone anywhere

 

[Ronaldo's Mum Eh?]

Ole will get the bullet if we don't get a point on Sunday. And deservedly so.. he's not good enough if he can't get us into top 4 with our squad. I don't want to hear the injuries excuse.

 

[AshRK]

I don't think there is any point debating further till the final game is done. As I said before the West Ham game, if we don't get the job done against Leicester then I would not be making excuses for Ole and the team and I would find it very hard to trust him for the future. But even then I will not call him the worst manager who cannot manage even in championship or start abusing him.

But if he gets the job done then Ole deserves all the credit. If someone had given me 3rd position at the start of the season even with 66 points I would have taken it. I know I would prefer to finish 3rd with 64 or 66 points than finishing 6th with 75 points.

 

[romufc]

We still may not get Champs League & Leicester still may finish above us .

It was only possible as Leicester clearly have a less talented team then ours. Just shows what good coaching can do to a team to have them in with a chance of Champions League when there actual level is about 6/7th

You have previously said this is an average squad, so how is it more talented than Leicester's squad?

All of those are worthy of being our manager more so than Ole. You’ve even admitted they are better than Ole.

We expect to improve our playing squad- why not the management side???

How are they worthy of being our manager? I said they probably are not 100% are, but so is Jose and LVG, they are better managers than Ole. We tried that, and it flopped.

Havent you and others said we should have the best manager? are those the best managers? They have achieved the same amount as Ole... as we have seen without pressure, even Ole can play good football.

How do you know how any of those managers react to pressure? None of those managers have faced the pressure. Poch did after getting the CL final and was expected to kick on, look what happened.

We have seen how Tuchel reacts, he plays defensive in CL games.

 

[romufc]

I have a feeling that if we had taken on naggelesman or ten hag and they had the exact same season as Ole the same people would be saying, see told you so and happy with them.

What Ole has done with the front 3, bringing through greenwood. rashford and martial 20+ goals, Some of the goals have been absolute pleasure to watch, unbeaten streaks, signing Fernandes and the impact he added. It’s all been a joy, yes some things are questionable but that would be the case with absolutely anyone anywhere

Oh it would be see first season in charge and almost got top 4, imagine what they can do with a better squad.

Ole has got them playing, improved all of those players. I am not here saying Ole is a WC manager, but look at the team we had in the first half of the season. Even KLopp and Pep would struggle getting results.

Pep this season, has lost more games than we have. Does it make him a bad manager? No.

1 defensive injury to Laporte and their defence crumbled.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

You have previously said this is an average squad, so how is it more talented than Leicester's squad?



How are they worthy of being our manager? I said they probably are not 100% are, but so is Jose and LVG, they are better managers than Ole. We tried that, and it flopped.

Havent you and others said we should have the best manager? are those the best managers? They have achieved the same amount as Ole... as we have seen without pressure, even Ole can play good football.

How do you know how any of those managers react to pressure? None of those managers have faced the pressure. Poch did after getting the CL final and was expected to kick on, look what happened.

We have seen how Tuchel reacts, he plays defensive in CL games.

We have a more talented team than Leicester. We can improve the squad obviously, but it’s much better than Leicester’s.

I think they are better managers for sure. With clear styles & tactical nouse.

I just don’t see it in Ole, you do. That’s it really. I won’t change your mind, you won’t change mine , but we both want what’s best for the club.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

I have a feeling that if we had taken on naggelesman or ten hag and they had the exact same season as Ole the same people would be saying, see told you so and happy with them.

What Ole has done with the front 3, bringing through greenwood. rashford and martial 20+ goals, Some of the goals have been absolute pleasure to watch, unbeaten streaks, signing Fernandes and the impact he added. It’s all been a joy, yes some things are questionable but that would be the case with absolutely anyone anywhere

Definitely.

 

[Mainoldo]

Here we go:

Pochetinno - A very good manager, I agree but what has he won.. he had a very good spurs side and bottles the league. Go have a look at his results last season and this.

Tuchel - What has he achived? Every PSG manager wins the league and gets knocked out the CL with some of the most talented players in the world.

Naggleseman - Very promising manager, can he handle United? Has he managed big players?

Ten Hag - Again could be a very good manager but he had a great season last - What has he done this season in the CL? he hasnt improved/

Rose - Again what has he done? How do you know he will get us playing good football or win us a title

Naming managers for the sake of it because they doing well in other leagues is fine but be realistic. Not saying Ole is better than but I want the next manager to win us the title. Who of the above will win us a title?

Okay talking Ole out of the equation and just speaking about the above in relation to your question as to what creditials do they have to win us a title. Good question and it best be the bloody first question Ed ask when he’s appointing the next manager.

Poch - His very first title challenge came as a surprise. He was never experienced in a title challenge and had never been in that position before. Unfortunately after that challenge the clubs who had been challenging around him had the resources to improve. Spending £50m on RB’s one being his RB whilst the money was not available for him to do the same. Regardless of that he still maintained comfortable positions in the league whilst in his last season falling short in a championship league final against the best team in England.

Tuchel - Took the Dortmund team on after Klopp left which was in a bad place. Was very successful in getting them back up the table playing a wonderful brand of football. Is very strict in his approach no nonsense infact which has seen him fall out with players in the past. However he’s now got medals under his belt whilst also having the experience of manager star players. If he wins the Champions league your point on PSG pretty much becomes redundant

Nagelsmann - The inexperienced one of the bunch not much to comment on him except he has a progressive style whilst achieving a lot for his short tenor in management. Potential more than anything sold. The bigger risk.

Ten Hag - Had a very successful campaign with Ajax where his philosophy and belief in youth seen Ajax outclass a lot of big oppositions playing their brand of football. Has trophies under his belt and is of the Guardiola school age. potential City manager.

Rose - See Nagelsmann but more experience. Took a risk joining Borussia but managed to achieve CL status playing a lovely brand of football.

 

[romufc]

We have a more talented team than Leicester. We can improve the squad obviously, but it’s much better than Leicester’s.

I think they are better managers for sure. With clear styles & tactical nouse.

I just don’t see it in Ole, you do. That’s it really. I won’t change your mind, you won’t change mine , but we both want what’s best for the club.

Yeah we do but talent on its own doesnt get you anywhere. Just look at Spurs, City, Barca etc..

With Ole, my stance is top 4 or sack. Regardless of injuries etc... you have to get top 4. If he gets top 4, I will give him the chance to prove me wrong on whether he is good enough to win the title.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Yeah we do but talent on its own doesnt get you anywhere. Just look at Spurs, City, Barca etc..

With Ole, my stance is top 4 or sack. Regardless of injuries etc... you have to get top 4. If he gets top 4, I will give him the chance to prove me wrong on whether he is good enough to win the title.

If he gets top I've said it’s reasonable (even though I disagree as I don’t think he’s that great) to have him do another year.

If he doesn’t he surely has to go. But unfortunately I think it’s nailed on he’s staying either way.

 

[AneRu]

Here we go:

Pochetinno - A very good manager, I agree but what has he won.. he had a very good spurs side and bottles the league. Go have a look at his results last season and this.

Tuchel - What has he achived? Every PSG manager wins the league and gets knocked out the CL with some of the most talented players in the world.

Naggleseman - Very promising manager, can he handle United? Has he managed big players?

Ten Hag - Again could be a very good manager but he had a great season last - What has he done this season in the CL? he hasnt improved/

Rose - Again what has he done? How do you know he will get us playing good football or win us a title

Naming managers for the sake of it because they doing well in other leagues is fine but be realistic. Not saying Ole is better than but I want the next manager to win us the title. Who of the above will win us a title?

Firstly I changed my mind regarding Ole and I think we should keep him regardless of what happens on Sunday and in the Europa. I would still understand if the club decides otherwise and sacks Ole.

I think the two coaches in bold under a DOF have the tactical philosophy I like which is perfect for the modern game and given the same resources and support as Ole could have a higher ceiling, all factors being equal. I think Rose still needs a couple of years to prove himself but like I said I like his and Ten Hag's style.

I think where we went wrong with Jose and LVG was that we looked at their CV and just threw money at them then got our fingers burnt. It doesn't mean that all coaches from the continent won't do well here especially if we remove the transfers and long term planning aspect from the job and bring a DOF then those coaches would work because recruitment is such a huge factor in a team's success.

 

[AshRK]

You have previously said this is an average squad, so how is it more talented than Leicester's squad?



How are they worthy of being our manager? I said they probably are not 100% are, but so is Jose and LVG, they are better managers than Ole. We tried that, and it flopped.

Havent you and others said we should have the best manager? are those the best managers? They have achieved the same amount as Ole... as we have seen without pressure, even Ole can play good football.

How do you know how any of those managers react to pressure? None of those managers have faced the pressure. Poch did after getting the CL final and was expected to kick on, look what happened.

We have seen how Tuchel reacts, he plays defensive in CL games.

Also the thing these people suggesting all the random names are forgetting is there has to be continuity. What's the point if the next manager now comes and say I don't need Martial or Awb or doesn't fancy Greenwood.

That is why I am totally against Allegri or even tuchel who may not even fancy our players.

 

[Leftback99]

We still may not get Champs League & Leicester still may finish above us .

It was only possible as Leicester clearly have a less talented team then ours. Just shows what good coaching can do to a team to have them in with a chance of Champions League when there actual level is about 6/7th

Did the 'good coaching' stop in the second half of the season? Why have their results fallen off a cliff?

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Did the 'good coaching' stop in the second half of the season? Why have their results fallen off a cliff?

Because they don’t have as talented a squad and Injuries I think.

If Ole was at Leicester I’d hazard a guess they’d be nowhere near top 4

 

[Andycoleno9]

Here we go:

Pochetinno - A very good manager, I agree but what has he won.. he had a very good spurs side and bottles the league. Go have a look at his results last season and this.

Tuchel - What has he achived? Every PSG manager wins the league and gets knocked out the CL with some of the most talented players in the world.

Naggleseman - Very promising manager, can he handle United? Has he managed big players?

Ten Hag - Again could be a very good manager but he had a great season last - What has he done this season in the CL? he hasnt improved/

Rose - Again what has he done? How do you know he will get us playing good football or win us a title

Naming managers for the sake of it because they doing well in other leagues is fine but be realistic. Not saying Ole is better than but I want the next manager to win us the title. Who of the above will win us a title?

I don't know who from them would win us a title because there is no coach in the world who can guarantee you title in PL but i sure know woth 100% certainty that Ole will not. Ever. Even if we give him one billion budget.

With Ole, our destiny is battle for top 4.

 

[Irwin99]

Even if he fails on Sunday (which i honestly don't think he will) United still have the EL which is very winnable and could be another route to the CL next season.

My own opinion- it's a strange one regardless of what happens on Sunday; the improvement since Bruno came into the team is undeniable and Ole deserves credit for that and for improving the attack considerably. The summer transfer window was bordering on ridiculous though and even if we finish third I think Ed and Ole have seriously got away with some very bad decisions which in other seasons would have cost us a lot more. If we hadn't have got those reinforcements in January I think we'd be closer to 9th or 10th than in 3rd right now. I just don't have any confidence in this board regardless of who the manager is.

 

[Leftback99]

Because they don’t have as talented a squad and Injuries I think.

If Ole was at Leicester I’d hazard a guess they’d be nowhere near top 4

Interesting, but injuries and quality of squad made no difference to the first half of our season?

I'd hazard a guess that Ole would have got better results than Rodgers since December.

 

[Lentwood]

The trouble is, most fans think “long term” is a 6mnths or a season.

In reality, if you look at Chelsea and City after they won the oil lottery, Utd after appointing SAF and Liverpool after they appointed Michael Edwards, it took 3/4yrs before they started winning titles

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Interesting, but injuries and quality of squad made no difference to the first half of our season?

I'd hazard a guess that Ole would have got better results than Rodgers since December.

I think they had less injuries first half of the season. We still had a better quality squad than Leicester even without Bruno. Pogba missing for a while is the main thing you can give a defence of Ole in terms of injures. Still think we could’ve handled it much better.

Hm not sure Ole would’ve, but that’s your opinion

 

[Withnail]

I don't know who from them would win us a title because there is no coach in the world who can guarantee you title in PL but i sure know woth 100% certainty that Ole will not. Ever. Even if we give him one billion budget.

With Ole, our destiny is battle for top 4.

ah come on, you can't know anything in the future with 100% certainty, that's just silly.

Leicester won the premier league for god's sake.

 

[Zlatan 7]

I don't know who from them would win us a title because there is no coach in the world who can guarantee you title in PL but i sure know woth 100% certainty that Ole will not. Ever. Even if we give him one billion budget.

With Ole, our destiny is battle for top 4.

This is our league form since February...

DWWDWDWWWWWDWD

so what makes you say with such certainty we’ll only ever scrap for top four. Does the league form suggest that?