Ole won't be our manager forever so there will always be the element of risk when bringing in a new manager that he doesn't fancy certain signings. That being said, if the club is happy enough with the squad, it would be wise to just appoint a manager who doesn't want to radically overhaul the squad or one that doesn't have a completely different style of football e.g. LVG to Jose.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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We were without Pogba till March and were without Martial for close to 2 months. We were playing Lingard and Periera and Mata and an unproven winger in James led our attack and midfield. You don't call that quality.
You judged these managers very harshly, as you rightly should. Thing is, do the same for Ole and he doesn't survive.
Yes, and I will support him while he still has the chance to do what most of us wanted him to do this season.. get top 4.
Again, on one hand you say no one can guarantee a title and on the other hand you totally write Ole off ?
If anything the drop off in quality to the likes of Lingard, Pereira, Mata, James etc has become more obvious in the last few weeks. Why is Rodgers given (fair) excuses now they are missing the likes of Maddison but Ole was expected to 'coach' Lingard into being Bruno?
Yes, but the point is we have Ole right now, there is no clear manager out there that will improve us. There is alot of opinions yes.
If any of the other managers were in charge of us now and done what Ole done, my stance would be the same.
It is because we cannot afford to sack another manager right now and let him assess the squad for a few months and build. We have a 3 week turnaround for the next season, what is the point going into next season like we did last?
I’m saying that even with the drop off in quality with our injuries, we still had a better squad than Leicester. Who I contend are a 6-7th team to be honest in terms of quality
Curious comment considering you have over 600 posts in this thread so far, and swiftly followed that post up with 12 more in the same thread. This might be one of those "take your own advice" situations.
If you're talking about improvement over Ole then why did you judge them based on winning trophies? Trophies isn't the only thing they can offer that's better than Ole.
As for the bolded, we should stop granting each manager assessment periods and warchests when they haven't even justified it. Let them make use of the very talented squad we have, if they can't find someone who can. If they can, then we give them a warchest. No manager should need multiple warchests just to challenge, they need to show something first.
Thanks for your contribution. Next time just PM your advice.
Doesnt always work that way. We had two ‘big cv’ managers before him, do you remember? What we have seen over the last twenty games is without doubt the best we have been since 2013. Too many fantasists on here who are more concerned with a Dream team fifa style Manager being appointed than watching whats happening on the pitch.
Why do some ‘fans’ act like spoilt entitled little tits and love us to lose just to be able to come and cry about how they think we could appoint a different manager, sign 3 players and win the league next season.
Its a long term project, things are looking up and the players like playing for Ole. He’s not going unless we collapse
The criticism aimed at Ole is he can only get us top 4? Why is that?
Have you not seen him produce entertaining football? when the pressure is off?
All these managers have managed teams with 0 pressure. None of them have actually shown under pressure they can deliver anything.
Name me any top managers at football clubs the size of Manutd and ones that want to win titles, who have shown something before money been spent on them?
No idea, all the good work will be for nothing.
Before that we had worst form in last 30 years, in last 4 games our run is DWLD. With stats you can pick what suits you.
Yes, no one can guarantee but all of them have higher chance to do it. That was my point. Because they are better managers than Ole. Their CV shows that. And many other things. Give Ole Leicester or Wolves and he would struggle to get in top10.
I am tired to writing same stuff again and again (that is way i avoided his threads since january). He is not good manager. His team management, his tactical knowledge, his cv...everything screams; average manager.
We will lose another year with him in charge.
Only good thing is that he will leave good foundation for another manager.
Ah yes it’s spoiled or entitled to want the best for the club.
And yes that great argument if we’ve had good managers before that didn’t work out (despite winning cups) so we should stick with an average one. Please tell me where the sense is in that? I don’t see any I’m afraid
I agree the sentiment, but I'm sure we will all appreciate Ole a lot more if we actually win things with the players. If he ends up not doing so, it would be a lot worse for his legacy than if he was replaced and someone else used his players to win. But regardless, most will be happy that he was able to restore some of the enjoyment back to the club after the down period. But now that that's done, it's back to business. Time to shift focus quickly and take advantage of what Ole has brought, and win trophies.
The bolded is what I worry most about him. I don't think he does that enough to improve to the level we need him to be any time soon, and that's why I think it's too big a risk to take with the squad's cycle ending in the near future. At the beginning of the season, that was one of my personal criteria for evaluating his tenure, and it's one of the main reasons why I think we need to act quickly.
Oh, really? So you stay away since January when we stop losing and magically pop up once we lose one single game?
100% right
It's all academic anyway. I don't think he would have been let go at the end of the season anyway, but with this season and the next being almost connected due to the lack of pre season for clubs playing in Europe in August, the idea of making a managerial switch is rather difficult.
We have a deeper squad than Leicester but it was irrelevant because they were getting their best 11 on the pitch week in week out with no European midweek distractions. A few injuries to his main men and tighter schedule and suddenly he doesn't look such a great 'coach', just like we don't play as well with injuries and fatigue.
It’s not 1 game, it’s been poor performance for a good few games now. It seems to be a trait of Ole, go on a run when players are in form but collapse completely for a long run too
Not really but if it suits you...
Most arguments in defending Ole were and are against posters anyway (because it is hard to defend Ole with real arguments).
That's not how I'd appoint a manager, because it's hard to find other clubs with the size of Man Utd. I'd focus more on improvement with continuity, something we've failed at while appointing managers the last few years. It's the same reason we keep having to spend warchest after warchest, and rebuild after rebuild, because there's no continuity.
So if I were to focus on managers who can offer improvement on Ole's deficiencies, as well as continuity with the style of the current squad and players, that would be the type of manager to target. Your points about pressure are true but hard to verify, since like I said it's not easy to find clubs the size of Man Utd. Often times a manager can thrive as an underdog but not as a favourite, so I do acknowledge that point.
In an ideal world, yes that would be good to give a manager some time to show what he can do with the squad, improve the individuals we have and then add where necessary.
However; we live in a world where we need instant success, Manutd is too big to allow a season of no big signings. Managers want the best players to showcase what they can do, which is why we always see teams sacking managers with a string of bad results.
The top players now want to play for teams that are challenging for titles. I just cannot see a scenario where Manutd operate that way.
I am not saying all managers are like that, Klopp in his first few seasons seem to have a mental block and then won the UCL and the team goes and wins the PL title.
Do you think this fan group will allow a manager time to showcase how well he can improve players? If we are not winning, there will always be sections of groups who say, sack the manager.
I dont think he is an average manager, has done well with the resources he has in terms of personnel. Showed he can outmatch pep etc for tactics in head to head games.
And You kind of just defeated your own point by saying good managers dont necessarily work out but before saying we must improve the coaching staff by appointing anyone who seems slightly more qualified on paper.
Whats best for the club is a sustainable long term approach where we sign good players with lots of years in the tank. Football is an infinite game.
If you think that having a circus Merry go round of managers, in a poisoned chalice job, who only ever get to Work with a patchwork squad Of past managers players is good, have a word. They spunk money on dross signings chasing quick success and then the process repeats when they are sacked for not getting the chance to create anything. Chelsea have been great at it.
You're asking for a manager that will just inherit a squad without building his own. The amount of managers who wants to do that is: 0.
You haven't understood my point at all. Not talking about who is better but that outcomes for changing managers is unpredictable. Especially we have seen several of them failing. If not are you saying Ole is a better manager than Mourinho or LVG?
But those all are hypothetical thinking. I could say had Klopp had the Cardiff job in 2013 he would have fared no different. Or give the Arsenal job without funding to Pep he wouldn't be able to dominate the way he is doing now. Or what is the guarentee Rodgers would have done any better with Lingard and Periera and Mata. All we know is as of now we are 3rd and if we do the job this sunday and finish 3rd or 4th Ole deserves another season.
You are right. But isn't most of stuff about "Ole in" exactly based on hypothetical thinking? If we give him time, who can tell that someone would be better, if he had his players, etc...
But yeah, you are right. I tried and tried to use facts and objective thinking last 12 months so i lost patience i guess.
I'm not asking for no transfers at all, but improvement first before huge sums. For instance before breaking any world records for a manager, it would make sense that he should show that he can either improve the performances of the players currently at the club, or show success with a smaller signing first.
Mourinho and Ole both came in here and broke records immediately without proving anything first, and LVG was moaning the other day about how he was led to believe we could buy him any player on this earth. I don't think it's a smart way to operate to blindly back every manager we hire on the off. It's wasted us a lot of money thus far.
Are you discounting the enormous improvements we've seen across the board on several of our developing players this season? Hereunder: Marcus Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, AWB, Williams and McTominay?
And if you're not. Why can't the current manager be allowed to continue his work, seeing as he'soverseeing their development currently? Will a new manager get more our of these players than we currently are? If yes: How exactly?
How is it hypothetical thinking when we're using actual historical data to back the arguments. We're seeing an upward trajectory in the side. As far as other arguments are concerned, it's common sense - Pogba out for majority of the season, McT, Rashford, Martial all suffering long term injuries.You are right. But isn't most of stuff about "Ole in" exactly based on hypothetical thinking? If we give him time, who can tell that someone would be better, if he had his players, etc...
But yeah, you are right. I tried and tried to use facts and objective thinking last 12 months so i lost patience i guess.
Teams take time to achieve something. As far as the growth is on the right trajectory, the manager should be retained.
Chances of this happening is 0 at any club.
AWB- I think he’s regressed
DDG- Definitely regressed
Rashford - Similar level as previously
Martial - Improved
Greenwood- Improved massively
Mctominany- was good previously
Dan James- Regressed
Not sure his record on improving players is as good as you make out
It's the opposite, most clubs operate like this.
Very few other clubs are able to break records and pick up the best players the way we have recently, and when they do break club records (not even world records, just club records), it's usually not for a manager they just hired. They usually go for 'normal' transfers, and if he succeeds with those then back him further.
At this moment in time, Pep or Klopp would get any club they want. Ole is not going to get it. They have earned it. I don't want him sacked now as I don't think anyone better than him is available right now. May as well give him to start next season and see how it goes. If he is not challenging by end of December then he should be sacked.
This team should be playing a lot better than we have been playing. He has many faults including his game management.
People talk about our squad. Yes they are poor but a top manager would be able to adapt to what he has and use them the best way.
Ole has not been able to use his assets to the best of their ability.
Tactically either he is naive or thinks he is better than he actually is. Formations and team selections etc should also factor in the opposition. Too many times he has been out thought by other managers and he has been too rigid to change it.
Why one of the reasons why SAF was so successful was that he could see what the opposition is and change his team. The couple of times he didn't, he lost.
There are matches when he should go with a 4 man midfield and drop a striker or go with 3 at the back.
This Leicester game worries me because of lack of pace in our midfield and our defense.
This team should be playing a lot better than we have been playing. He has many faults including his game management.
People talk about our squad. Yes they are poor but a top manager would be able to adapt to what he has and use them the best way.
Ole has not been able to use his assets to the best of their ability.
Tactically either he is naive or thinks he is better than he actually is. Formations and team selections etc should also factor in the opposition. Too many times he has been out thought by other managers and he has been too rigid to change it.
Why one of the reasons why SAF was so successful was that he could see what the opposition is and change his team. The couple of times he didn't, he lost.
There are matches when he should go with a 4 man midfield and drop a striker or go with 3 at the back.
This Leicester game worries me because of lack of pace in our midfield and our defense.
fecking hell... And then you say you're rational
Fred? McTominay? fecking Rashford who literally and figuratively carried us on his back?
Records are not broken all the time but very few clubs will wait for coach to achieve something before spending big, at least big clubs. If they have money, they will back the coach. We dont break records for manager alone, we do it when we believe player is good enough and will offer lot of years.
It's not as if these players will leave when manager is sacked.
If it wasn't for Ole adapting to his squad in the first half of the season, we'd be somewhere close to where Arsenal currently are if the events of the last 6 months played out as they have done this season...
By spending big, do you mean normal big club spending? Because I'm not talking about that, we have been doing much more than that by buying the best players in the top leagues.
I'd rather we back the manager with the normal big club spending first, and then if he succeeds then we can go for the jugular with world records and the like.
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