Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Withnail]

I love Rashford & he’s improved massively.

But his free kicks are awful.

At the risk of de-reailing the thread further: his finishing wasn't great no so long ago either. Before he scored that free-kick against Chelsea he had been taking them regularly enough and was getting closer.

He was pretty much our designated free-kick taker before Bruno's arrival so he must be doing something right in training.

When Ronaldo was the same age he finished the season with 17 league goals, only one of which was a free-kick. From the following year onward when he started scoring them more regularly. I'm not saying Rashford will be as good as him but he seems to be following a similar progression.

 

[sport2793]

Eh? This again? Wonder why Barca didn’t just sweep every trophy every year in the latter half of the noughties or the first half of this decade. Why Zidane’s Madrid is the only club to have defended the CL. Twice. In succession. Has insane levels of talent? Have you seen the Madrid squad this season? Hazard has barely been available. The vast majority of starters this season are the same as from 2017. This same team and squad was deemed not fit for purpose by literally every manager other than him. He took over a struggling side just over a year ago and has transformed them to beat a Barca side with Messi.

The disparaging of Zidane is ridiculous. The man has seriously worked miracles.

That RM team with Ronaldo was stacked at every position, don't give me this nonsense about how the manager played a massive role in their success. If anything, you give Zidane credit for being able to manage all of those egos over that period of time. The current squad still has significantly more investment than most squads on the planet and has more talent than United's current team, no matter what preceding RM managers thought of the current squad (really, it says more about the lack of ability of those managers). Barcelona is much weaker in the present than they were in preceding seasons, partly due to injuries and insane personal infighting that has ruined the club. Really, RM and Barca are weaker than both teams were in Zidane's first spell and I think RM have benefited from that this year in that they have been less weak than Barcelona.

 

[midnightmare]

That RM team with Ronaldo was stacked at every position, don't give me this nonsense about how the manager played a massive role in their success. If anything, you give Zidane credit for being able to manage all of those egos over that period of time. The current squad still has significantly more investment than most squads on the planet and has more talent than United's current team, no matter what preceding RM managers thought of the current squad (really, it says more about the lack of ability of those managers). Barcelona is much weaker in the present than they were in preceding seasons, partly due to injuries and insane personal infighting that has ruined the club. Really, RM and Barca are weaker than both teams were in Zidane's first spell and I think RM have benefited from that this year in that they have been less weak than Barcelona.

Yup. That’d explain how he has those 3 back to back CL titles and 2 La Liga crowns to go with them. It’s not like nobody has ever managed that before.

Dismissing Zidane’s achievements is just ignorant.When he did it with Ronaldo, it was about how, “It’s just Ronaldo carrying the team”. Now it’s “everyone else is poor”. Get real. No manager managed that kind of dominance despite squad strength. Hell, Pep with Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Pique, Puyol, Abidal and assorted others like Henry and Villa didn’t manage to defend the CL.

A manager’s job includes picking the players, training them, keeping them fit, setting up the system, lining up formations and tactics and then motivating the players and keeping them going. It’s not quite as simple as SM/FM would have you believe. Zidane’s achievements are jaw-dropping. A trophy every 19 games or so. He’s done it this season despite an aging spine, incessant injuries to his marquee signing and having to rely on whatever he could get from players widely accepted as not being of vintage Real Madrid quality.

I can get it if you don’t follow Real Madrid. If you do, unless you’re a Barcelona fan, I fail to see how anyone can dismiss Zidane. Just because he doesn’t bring some stupid “philosophy” with him doesn’t diminish what he’s done in any manner.

 

[Bastian]

They're really not. It is cool to say it, but it is far from reality.

Would anyone has swapped those matches with cannon fodder with instead playing Liverpool, City, and Chelsea instead?

I don't disagree, that those games can often be very difficult, but no one would swap that nice run of fixtures we had for anything harder on paper. For one thing, Ole has never set us up to dominate in games against the top sides, and that just happens to be what finally clicked with this team, albeit, against small sides. It's hard to imagine our current XI scraping wins by playing on the counter only.

Will be interesting to see how his tactical approach evolves next season in the bigger matches.

 

[Class of 63]

I've stupidly allowed the Ole OUT brigade get to me so much so that I wish there was an option to vote Sack Ole today(Saturday) and bring Pochettino in for the match at Leicester City on Sunday, no seriously.

 

[roonster09]

At the risk of de-reailing the thread further: his finishing wasn't great no so long ago either. Before he scored that free-kick against Chelsea he had been taking them regularly enough and was getting closer.

He was pretty much our designated free-kick taker before Bruno's arrival so he must be doing something right in training.

When Ronaldo was the same age he finished the season with 17 league goals, only one of which was a free-kick. From the following year onward when he started scoring them more regularly. I'm not saying Rashford will be as good as him but he seems to be following a similar progression.

Let's not forget

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I don't disagree, that those games can often be very difficult, but no one would swap that nice run of fixtures we had for anything harder on paper. For one thing, Ole has never set us up to dominate in games against the top sides, and that just happens to be what finally clicked with this team, albeit, against small sides. It's hard to imagine our current XI scraping wins by playing on the counter only.

Will be interesting to see how his tactical approach evolves next season in the bigger matches.

I really hope we try to go at teams in the big games next season.

I don't want us to always sit back and play on the counter.

 

[SteveW]

Wow. I am sorry you are living in your delusional world. Utilised to their maximum extent meaning what, if they aren't good at basics? And Jones? He is injured permanently. Should Ole become a doctor too?

Edit: Just wanted to add upon reflection the ridiculousness of this argument again. The man is instrumental in developing from our academy up the best talent we have had since Rooney. He has helped Rashford and Martial improve to such an extent we have a legitimate claim to have best attacking three in the league. And you want Ole fired because he couldn't get the best out of Lingard!!!!

Exactly. I don't know what world some of these lads live in.

 

[Rash Decision]

I really hope we try to go at teams in the big games next season.

I don't want us to always sit back and play on the counter.

We'd have to improve our ability to control possession very very substantially though. Currently even Chelsea is far better than us in that one respect. It doesn't seem to be a vital part of Ole's philosophy either. Don't see it happening myself.

 

[midnightmare]

I really hope we try to go at teams in the big games next season.

I don't want us to always sit back and play on the counter.

We'd have to improve our ability to control possession very very substantially though. Currently even Chelsea is far better than us in that one respect. It doesn't seem to be a vital part of Ole's philosophy either. Don't see it happening myself.

I don't know why this is the least bit relevant. There are no "pretty triangle" trophies or awards for "aesthetics" of football. Back in the day, I remember mocking Arsenal fans for their whinging about how they played "better" football while finishing miles behind us. Ole played under Fergie and has learned that biggest of lessons - the result is foremost and nothing entertains like goals, no matter how you score them.

The mind harks back to the 2004-05 season when we (from what I can recollect) didn't win the possession or prettiness battles against Arsenal while beating them 2-0 (H) and 2-4 (A) in the league. We did however absolutely dominate and beast them in the FAC final where Wenger parked the biggest of buses. And we lost that final.

I don't care much about the possession stats. I don't want Jose-ball - but as long as we're attacking at will and scoring a bunch, I don't really care about the pretty triangles in the middle of the park.

 

[United58]

Let's not forget

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

There's a lot of (justified) criticism of Ole but improving our strikers is one thing he's done tremendously well

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Great. We should keep him as a strikers coach only.

As a manager he’s average & not good enough for Manchester United

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Great. We should keep him as a strikers coach only.

As a manager he’s average & not good enough for Manchester United

 

[RedSky]

I've never seen a poster on the Caf exude so much salt like Rafaeldagold has in the past month or so. This run of great form is dangerous for his health. I'm concerned for his well being.

 

[Withnail]

I've never seen a poster on the Caf exude so much salt like Rafaeldagold has in the past month or so. This run of great form is dangerous for his health. I'm concerned for his well being.

At least he's not pretending he'd give him another year anymore. I knew that was bs

 

[Rafaeldagold]

At least he's not pretending he'd give him another year anymore. I knew that was bs

I said If he gets top 4 the argument can be made to give him another year (not by me) I’d rather we got a better manager but still

 

[Rafaeldagold]

I've never seen a poster on the Caf exude so much salt like Rafaeldagold has in the past month or so. This run of great form is dangerous for his health. I'm concerned for his well being.

Aw I’m touched by your kind words. Much appreciated.

Just to clarify do you count getting outsmarted by Southampton & outplayed by West Ham & totally embarrassingly destroyed by Chelsea as great form? Interesting.

 

[tenpoless]

Rubbish!! He’s won 3 Champions leagues in a row they got rid of Ronaldo and looked like a cluster fck. He’s comeback and won them the league blooding through youth and Rejuvenating the old guard.

You forgot the part where Barca shat themselves.

 

[RedSky]

Aw I’m touched by your kind words. Much appreciated.

Just to clarify do you count getting outsmarted by Southampton & outplayed by West Ham & totally embarrassingly destroyed by Chelsea as great form? Interesting.

Unbeaten in 19 in all competitions (until Chelsea). Unbeaten in 13 in the league. We've been in great form, we've got all the way to 3rd overtaking Leicester and Chelsea. Every point matters right now and we've been very good at getting them, it's why we're 2nd in the form table. Others have struggled to pick up points on a consistent basis during post covid, we haven't.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

For the majority and minority of the first half of the season we had:
- Martial as our no.9 who was starting his first season as a striker in a long while
- A 17/18 year old playing his first season at professional level as Martial's back up
- A championship left winger as our RW
- fecking Lingard and Pereira alternating as our starting AMs to be the main source of creativity
- Two defensive minded CMs in Fred and Mctominay as the other source of creativity in midfield
- A declining/off form De Gea
- All of the above starting for us(so let's not talk about the bench)
- An injured Pogba
- An injured Martial
- An injured Mctominay
- An injured Rashford

Fast forward from January to present day and we are now in third place with the inclusion of Pogba Ighalo Rashford and Bruno. It is fine to think Ole is not good enough to manage us but if you think that our struggle for top 4 till the last day has more to do with him rather than the quality of players we had at the first half of the season then you are incredibly short sighted

 

[RedSky]

At least he's not pretending he'd give him another year anymore. I knew that was bs

Well obviously, he's been full of shite for months and he's not very good at hiding his clear agenda. He just screams in every thread he walks into, which is highly tiresome.

I honestly can't wait for the end of the season, think we'll win Europa regardless of tomorrows result. Top 4 and a Europa Cup win will be a solid platform to work on for next season. If it all falls apart then I think critism will be justified as it will be 2 seasons in a row.

 

[Withnail]

I said If he gets top 4 the argument can be made to give him another year (not by me) I’d rather we got a better manager but still

You backed off from that for a while and were all I'm not saying definitely sack him but you made your mind up before Christmas and you won't be swayed and that's fine. Its your opinion.

The thing is we can't see into the future and he's not done enough to be sacked imo.

Any new manager would have different transfer targets so those plans would be affected by sacking Ole.

The players clearly buy into what Ole is doing and are happy so removing him could affect morale.

That along with the fact that we are in a very unique and stressful period where we are straight into Europa League and then the new season, without a proper break/pre-season means that any new manager appt would be very tricky.

Given all of the above, do you think that now is a good time tear it all up and start again with new manager?

 

[anant]

I love rafaeldagold's arguments tbf, in the sense that they are funny as feck.

We have one of the worst managers in the league as per him, and he's improved just a player or two here and there. Which should imply that we should ideally be underachieveing. As per most people at the start of the season, we were round about 5th-6th best side as we didn't replace Lukaku and Herrera and all. But, despite all that, we're currently in 3rd. We've beaten the likes of City, Chelsea, Spurs, Leicester and also taken points off Pool. So, there are 2 ways of looking at this: Either, Ole is tactically good, thanks to which we've beaten the above sides, or our side is by far the best side. In case it's the latter, Ole should be credited for building that side - something Mou, who is a better manager as per him, failed at

 

[Web of Bissaka]

For the majority and minority of the first half of the season we had:
- Martial as our no.9 who was starting his first season as a striker in a long while
- A 17/18 year old playing his first season at professional level as Martial's back up
- A championship left winger as our RW
- fecking Lingard and Pereira alternating as our starting AMs to be the main source of creativity
- Two defensive minded CMs in Fred and Mctominay as the other source of creativity in midfield
- A declining/off form De Gea
- All of the above starting for us(so let's not talk about the bench)
- An injured Pogba
- An injured Martial
- An injured Mctominay
- An injured Rashford

Fast forward from January to present day and we are now in third place with the inclusion of Pogba Ighalo Rashford and Bruno. It is fine to think Ole is not good enough to manage us but if you think that our struggle for top 4 till the last day has more to do with him rather than the quality of players we had at the first half of the season then you are incredibly short sighted

Gahd, that was depressing to read. Yep, spot-on mate.
The first half was so depressing, and you've rightly listed why we are where we were at that time, and yet even with that, we survived!

+ Bruno is really really a huge turning point in us climbing this far.

 

[RedSky]

Gahd, that was depressing to read. Yep, spot-on mate.
The first half was so depressing, and you've rightly listed why we are where we were at that time, and yet even with that, we survived!

+ Bruno is really really a huge turning point in us climbing this far.

I'd say Bruno but also our defense looking more organised and settled at the back. Of which i'll tip my hat and say Luke Shaw has been a big part of this, he was injured for 10 league games early on in the season. Could be a coincidence, but when he returned we started to look much better defensively.

 

[Mainoldo]

You forgot the part where Barca shat themselves.

In the 3 competitive Champions league campaigns?

 

[Withnail]

You forgot the part where Barca shat themselves.

You're thinking of Gary Lineker mate

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

How is @Rafaeldagold a new member and has posted so many times already today??

 

[tenpoless]

In the 3 competitive Champions league campaigns?

2-2 against Celta Vigo. I meant La Liga of course.

 

[Flexdegea]

How is @Rafaeldagold a new member and has posted so many times already today??

I'm thinking how did he get promoted and I cant

 

[Withnail]

How is @Rafaeldagold a new member and has posted so many times already today??

Has he been banned again?

 

[Mainoldo]

2-2 against Celta Vigo.

So? Real Madrid draw and lose too. Basically you have no input.

 

[Withnail]

I'm thinking how did he get promoted and I cant

He's got 10 likes he was definitely promoted. Think he's taking a little break. You can no longer @ him

 

[tenpoless]

So? Real Madrid draw and lose too. Basically you have no input.

Barca had the lead and normally they would have won but alright.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Ole threads without @Rafaeldagold has the same peaceful feeling after a baby stops crying

 

[Web of Bissaka]

I'd say Bruno but also our defense looking more organised and settled at the back. Of which i'll tip my hat and say Luke Shaw has been a big part of this, he was injured for 10 league games early on in the season. Could be a coincidence, but when he returned we started to look much better defensively.

Yes! Shaw is a huge factor, but also our two defense signings, and Lindelof definitely having a stable performance this season, helped so much by having more quality defense teammates.

Our defense also did enough during the first half of this season. The defense stat doesn't lie.

 

[tenpoless]

You're thinking of Gary Lineker mate

 

[Withnail]

Let's not forget

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Getting me back on track... Good stuff

 

[Andycoleno9]

Yes, but the point is we have Ole right now, there is no clear manager out there that will improve us. There is alot of opinions yes.

If any of the other managers were in charge of us now and done what Ole done, my stance would be the same.

It is because we cannot afford to sack another manager right now and let him assess the squad for a few months and build. We have a 3 week turnaround for the next season, what is the point going into next season like we did last?

This is just not true. And it is biggest empty excuse about Ole.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Need a win against Leicester to beat our worst PL points total (under Moyes), a draw would equal it.