Im red2
Prophet of Doom
search and find out for yourself
You are a full blown looper.You aint worth talking to so I am cutting it off.
Thnk youYou are a full blown looper.
You realise all the sources of those quotes are the dreaded 'MSM', right. You can't have it both ways.No problem Pogue, if you believe in all the shit MSM is feeding you, I am Irish too. Pogue Mahone is a well known Irish expert on most health
issues (The Sun) Do some more research please and do not get your information from the MSM. Do you really think that the people running the show do not control the MSM?
I appreciate you have different views but these are two I have recently read;Never try to shut someone up unless you have evidence to show why they should shut up, and if you have evidence to shut them up then they should shut up.
Can't find any references to those quotes (the ones from actual publications, not just some random person who's emailed the guy) but I did find out that he's worked as a columnist for the majority of them so I'm assuming those quotes are taken from the blurbs they've written about him in press releases - since they're unlikely to say "we've hired some nutjob"."Britain's leading health care campaigner" (The Sun)
"Dr Vernon Coleman is one of our most enlightened, trenchant and sensible dispensers
of medical advice." (The Observer)
"Sharpest mind in medical journalism." (Daily Star)
"His message is important." (The Economist)
"King of the media docs." (The Independent)
"Perhaps the best known health writer in the world today" (The Therapist)
"Probably one of the most brilliant men alive." (Irish Times)
"The patient's champion." (Birmingham Post)
"Britain's leading medical author." (The Star)
"An articulate and prolific medical author." (Sunday Times)
"He writes lucidly and wittily." (Good Housekeeping)
"Coleman is a very funny writer." (This England)
"Marvellously succinct, refreshingly sensible." (The Spectator)
"Compulsive reading." (The Guardian)
"The doctor who dares to speak his mind." (Oxford Mail)
"It's impossible not to be impressed." (Western Daily Press)
"His advice is optimistic and enthusiastic." (British Medical Journal)
"He's the Lone Ranger, Robin Hood and the Equalizer rolled into one." (Glasgow Evening Times)
"Vernon Coleman writes brilliant books." (The Good Book Guide)
"...no thinking person can ignore him. This is why he has been for over 20 years one of the world's leading advocates on human and animal rights in relation to health. Long may it continue!" (The Ecologist)
"The man is a national treasure" (What Doctors Don't Tell You)
"The revered guru of medicine" (Nursing Times)
"Superstar" (Independent on Sunday)
"Rogue elephant" (Sunday Times)
"Gentle, kind and caring" (Western Daily Press)
"His trademark is that he doesn't mince his words. Far funnier than the usual tone of soupy piety you get from his colleagues" (The Guardian)
"I would much rather spend an evening in his company than be trapped for five minutes in a radio commentary box with Mr Geoffrey Boycott" (Peter Tinniswood, Punch)
"Dr Coleman is one of our most enlightened, trenchant and sensitive dispensers of medical advice" (The Observer)
"What a brilliant, informative website this is!" (K.I. by email)
"If I could write, my words would be just like yours. (Your site is) the most interesting thing I have read in years. Thank goodness for the internet. If it is only good for one thing, being to educate ourselves, then it is worth it" (S R-B by email)
"...you have a magnificently well designed site. The content is superb." (G.C. by email)
"It is not often that a site impresses me so much that an email of appreciation is in order, but your site is quite exceptionally good. Jam packed with information, neatly tidied away, yet accessible with good signposts, well laid out, easy to navigate. In short, the sort of design that many would do well to inspect and copy." (D.T. by email)
"...yours is a superb body of work and you are a 'must read' author for anyone who cares about their health and that of their loved ones. I am bookmarking your site from now on!" (G.G. by email)
"What a truly wonderful site - and writing. I've been mesmerized." (K.L. by email)
"Great site and fantastic information." (Jenny by email)
"I find your website very enlightening." (E.S. by email)
Copyright © Vernon Coleman 2011
It is true we all have different views and different ideas, but do you really trust this guy?I will not take his vaccine Bills VaccineI appreciate you have different views but these are two I have recently read;
"Societal norms and government policies supporting the wearing of masks by the public, as well as international travel controls, are independently associated with lower per-capita mortality from COVID-19" https://www.researchgate.net/public...d_public_wearing_of_masks_Update_June_15_2020
This study has some interesting simulations showing stark contrasts between countries with societal norms for mask wearing and those who do not (countries like Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore where masking is not unusual): https://arxiv.org/pdf/2004.13553.pdf
One thing I stress to people is that the mask is not to protect you, it's to protect others as the virus transmits via droplets/aerosols which will be much bigger than the virus itself. In my opinion, when I see someone cruise around with no mask, it's not a case of them taking the risk, its the case of them putting others at risk. That annoys me, especially if the establishment they're in has deemed them mandatory.
Firstly, I am glad that you at least believe enough in the virus to isolate from others if found to have it. That in and of itself is a good thing at the very least.This guy has convinced me to never wear a mask, but if I was tested and shown to be Corona Virus infected. I would stay away from other people, and self isolate. Link
Remind us of the need for constant vigilance, and make the wearing of personal protective equipment, including close‐fitting N95 face‐masks, a necessity
For the Singapore study re 159 healthcare articles, there is indeed some statistically significant evidence of headaches there, albeit mostly with people wearing N95 masks for a long period of time, alongside protective goggles. Regardless of what he claims about this being the guidance, literally nobody is suggesting everyone walk around the streets with the highest grade of medical protective equipment (in fact, cloth bandanas are totally acceptable in this country currently).It is thought that after a very short time the barrier function of the surgical face mask is gone. Thus it is hard to believe that these masks serve as a reducer of oxygen uptake
This change in SpO2 may be either due to the facial mask or the operational stress, since similar changes were observed in the group performing surgery without a mask.
If you google the alleged quotes about him from any of the more reputable sources they only turn up on his personal website, or when his acolytes repeat them online. As you say, the thing about conspiracy gonks is that they shit on about the importance of doing your own research but never seem to be arsed to any actual research that might be more taxing than lighting up a spliff and zoning out in front of youtube.Can't find any references to those quotes (the ones from actual publications, not just some random person who's emailed the guy) but I did find out that he's worked as a columnist for the majority of them so I'm assuming those quotes are taken from the blurbs they've written about him in press releases - since they're unlikely to say "we've hired some nutjob".
For someone who tells people to "do some research" you really don't seem to put much effort into it yourself.
But this is like talking to a ghost. Happens at least once a week. Some poster goes completely off the deep end and ends up getting themselves banned. I'm probably one of the next ones as people seem to be getting tired of my shit, but hey thems the breaks. Let the mods decide what happens but I really can't see how your input is either informative or entertaining. It's either poorly sourced arguments or aggressive retaliation against dissenting voices towards your posts.
I'd quote Shakespeare at this point but I'm worried that'll set Damo over the edge.
I’m possibly a bit more old school than you but I just don’t think most lay people have the ability to digest and understand the evidence base. It’s amazing how much stuff gets published in even high impact journals that can lead you completely down the wrong path if you’re not trained in critical appraisal. So it’s easy to end up with the sort of stupid stuff you highlight in that video. A letter to the editor being portrayed as though it’s legitimate research.For what its worth, I totally agree people should do their research. I strongly encourage all of my patients to take a keen interest in their care and find out as much as they can. Sometimes they find stuff I have't read myself and we go through the material together. That for me is great.
But research is not simply finding material which simply agrees with your fundamental world view and using it to support those views. You need to seriously challenge those views as well.
The funny thing for me is that we have a poster in here telling us not to listen to the 'MSM', as if we form our opinions based on what reporter says, rather than the factual content. Then he holds up as an alternative a bloke I remember from his column in the Sunday People back in the 90s. His rebuke of your criticism was a bunch of quotes from... The 'MSM'. An intellectual giant walks among us.If you google the alleged quotes about him from any of the more reputable sources they only turn up on his personal website, or when his acolytes repeat them online. As you say, the thing about conspiracy gonks is that they shit on about the importance of doing your own research but never seem to be arsed to any actual research that might be more taxing than lighting up a spliff and zoning out in front of youtube.
At no point did I mention Bill Gates, but OK, up to you if you want the vaccine or not. Youtube videos are pretty poor evidence calibre, btw.It is true we all have different views and different ideas, but do you really trust this guy?I will not take his vaccine Bills Vaccine
Apologies, brain i a bit gooey at the moment with work this week (and perhaps the mask I have to wear all day long ). I mean if my patients themselves are very keen and do a lot of research, rather than just blanket recommending to everyone that they should read up.I’m possibly a bit more old school than you but I just don’t think most lay people have the ability to digest and understand the evidence base. It’s amazing how much stuff gets published in high impact journals that can lead you completely down the wrong path if you’re not trained in critical appraisal.
Even trying to keep on top of a very narrow specialty is a huge amount of work. Which is why I’m usually happy to concede to the expertise of specialists, without second-guessing their opinion.
This is particularly difficult in a novel and constantly changing area like covid. So disinformation is a big problem. With youtube absolutely crammed full of abject nonsense.
Great source. A YouTube channel with 6 videos and 1k subscribers, and top quality comments on his videos such as:It is true we all have different views and different ideas, but do you really trust this guy?I will not take his vaccine Bills Vaccine
I think it’s telling that Luciferase is pronounced Lucifer Race.
He is the ANTI-CHRIST. Read Revelations!!! Evil!!! Evil!!!
Here is how biology names things. The suffix -ase is part of the name of an enzyme that works on another molecule. Hydroxidase breaks down peroxide, for example. Lipases break down fats. So, Luciferase modifies lucifer. Enzymes are catalysts. The speed up reactions. Luciferase therefore should be expected to grease the wheels for production of Lucifer.
Some critical thinking is required to have an opinion. I mean, you're sitting there in a thread called "the Mask debate" telling us that you won't be taking a vaccine because Bill Gates wants to alter your DNA for Luficer. Every single part of that is insane.I don't think so Billy boy...I will not take your vaccination....you have no right to alter peoples DNA...
Climate change is, in almost every respect, the 21st century equivalent to AIDS in the 1990s.
The AIDS threat was blown up by homosexuals as a ruthless public relations campaign designed to gather attention, sympathy and support. Aggressive homosexuals spread misinformation widely – causing massive and unnecessary concern among millions of ordinary people.
Ludicrous You Tube videos from conspiracy theorists is not research. It is dangerous nonsense. In this case this nutter thinks doctors are more dangerous than cancer and has promoted AIDS, dementia and vaccine myths. You have been warned about this before. Do it again when you return and your next ban will be permanent.believe no one and research everything, I think that is a good statement
And people often put emotion and bias before data/evidence even when theoretically they could interpret and digest things.Most people definitely don't have the ability to digest, you're right.
@oatesApologies. I think it's done now as far as I'm concerned, you can only try and keep the goalposts in place for so long before losing the will to live.
Just to focus on the masks bit of that post. The lack of conclusive evidence from studies on mask wearing was the reason Ireland took so long to recommend them. But they eventually accepted that its very difficult to run the sort of studies you need to generate definitive evidence. And while you wait for that perfect piece of evidence your indecision could lead to avoidable deaths. Thankfully common sense eventually prevailed. It’s an extremely minor inconvenience which - in my opinion - is an absolute no brainer if there’s even a possibility it will reduce the spread of the virus. Time will tell how big an effect but there’s no harm in acting now and reflecting later.@oates
This is actually mask related so needs to go in here, but should also be interesting for oates to read. This from the horses mouth this morning:
Lena Hallengren is asked about mouth protection.
Question:
In public transport, is it just a matter for the health authority or is it not a factor that more and more countries are choosing this, and that the EU public health authority has taken a stand on oral protection? How do you see that Sweden is increasingly lonely in this attitude?
Answer: In Sweden, we do not make political decisions when it comes to infection control, we leave that to experts. We do not see in a situation, with a sharp decrease in the spread of infection, that it would be appropriate to require mouth protection in public environments. We follow science and knowledge and put it in a Swedish context.
Will you still be recommended to work from home?
- As soon as we have new information for the autumn, we will return. We have given FHM the task of developing different scenarios so that we can prepare for any new outbreaks, says Minister of Social Affairs Lena Hallengren (S).
Maybe now you’ll accept that no, the government in Sweden doesn’t make these decisions. You wouldn’t take my word for it, will you take hers?
source:https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/3Jgxj9/senaste-nytt-om-coronaviruset
Tegnell (the epidemiologist in charge of the Swedish response) remains unconvinced during his press conference yesterday regarding face masks. Doesn’t think any of the studies have some anything conclusive for mass mask wearing in society. They want to see what happens in countries now wearing masks.
Very good Reggie.@oates
This is actually mask related so needs to go in here, but should also be interesting for oates to read. This from the horses mouth this morning:
Lena Hallengren is asked about mouth protection.
Question:
In public transport, is it just a matter for the health authority or is it not a factor that more and more countries are choosing this, and that the EU public health authority has taken a stand on oral protection? How do you see that Sweden is increasingly lonely in this attitude?
Answer: In Sweden, we do not make political decisions when it comes to infection control, we leave that to experts. We do not see in a situation, with a sharp decrease in the spread of infection, that it would be appropriate to require mouth protection in public environments. We follow science and knowledge and put it in a Swedish context.
Will you still be recommended to work from home?
- As soon as we have new information for the autumn, we will return. We have given FHM the task of developing different scenarios so that we can prepare for any new outbreaks, says Minister of Social Affairs Lena Hallengren (S).
Maybe now you’ll accept that no, the government in Sweden doesn’t make these decisions. You wouldn’t take my word for it, will you take hers?
source:https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/3Jgxj9/senaste-nytt-om-coronaviruset
Tegnell (the epidemiologist in charge of the Swedish response) remains unconvinced during his press conference yesterday regarding face masks. Doesn’t think any of the studies have some anything conclusive for mass mask wearing in society. They want to see what happens in countries now wearing masks.
I don't know what kind of super deluxe mask you got yourself but to describe it as an "extremely minor inconvenience" is weird. I've had the fortune to only have to wear it for small periods of time when I go shopping or stuff like that, but basically all people I know that have to wear them during work (e.g. nurses and teachers) say that it's a real pain in the ass and it gives them major headaches by the end of the day. It's also harder to focus yourself when wearing one.Just to focus on the masks bit of that post. The lack of conclusive evidence from studies on mask wearing was the reason Ireland took so long to recommend them. But they eventually accepted that its very difficult to run the sort of studies you need to generate definitive evidence. And while you wait for that perfect piece of evidence your indecision could lead to avoidable deaths. Thankfully common sense eventually prevailed. It’s an extremely minor inconvenience which - in my opinion - is an absolute no brainer if there’s even a possibility it will reduce the spread of the virus. Time will tell how big an effect but there’s no harm in acting now and reflecting later.
Wearing them at work all day long would be a pain, I’m sure. Although very few people are being asked to do that. And I refuse to believe that wearing a thin cotton face covering or a surgical mask would cause a headache, no matter how long you wear it. I’ve worn surgical masks for several hours at a time and never felt any adverse effects .I don't know what kind of super deluxe mask you got yourself but to describe it as an "extremely minor inconvenience" is weird. I've had the fortune to only have to wear it for small periods of time when I go shopping or stuff like that, but basically all people I know that have to wear them during work (e.g. nurses and teachers) say that it's a real pain in the ass and it gives them major headaches by the end of the day. It's also harder to focus yourself when wearing one.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for masks because if it works, we prevent infections and if it doesn't, it's still not that big of a deal. But whenever I read your posts about masks you act like it's really nothing and that's also not true.
glad I'm not the only one, this was my biggest irritation this weekend.The biggest hassle for me is that I can’t unlock my phone by looking at it!
Hong Kong people are wearing masks all day long even in a humid climate with >30oC. It is uncomfortable but headache is hilarious.Wearing them at work all day long would be a pain, I’m sure. Although very few people are being asked to do that. And I refuse to believe that wearing a thin cotton face covering or a surgical mask would cause a headache, no matter how long you wear it. I’ve worn surgical masks for several hours at a time and never felt any adverse effects .
I personally wear a face covering in shops, in the gym and on public transport. I can assure you it’s an incredibly minor inconvenience. The biggest hassle for me is that I can’t unlock my phone by looking at it!
Your experience doesn't invalidate other people's experiences.Hong Kong people are wearing masks all day long even in a humid climate with >30oC. It is uncomfortable but headache is hilarious.
Yeah I'll take the anecdotal evidence of my 60-year old mother-in-law who's a teacher over some guy on the other side of the planet, thank you very much.Hong Kong people are wearing masks all day long even in a humid climate with >30oC. It is uncomfortable but headache is hilarious.
Come on. Seriously? Have you worn a mask? The idea that everyone (or even a majority) of people who wear one get a headache is just silly. And the experience of people from countries with a long history of wearing masks obviously trumps that of people from countries who are new to this and looking for excuses not to wear one. If people getting headaches from wearing a mask was any kind of meaningful issue I’m sure it would have been noticed in Asia many years ago.Your experience doesn't invalidate other people's experiences.
Who said anything about everyone or a majority? I haven't worn a mask all day, no, and judging from your post neither have you. And if you haven't, then why are you arguing about this from personal experience? Since I haven't worn a mask all day, I've got to listen to anecdotal evidence either way. You might have a point, but I don't know how they feel about masks in Hong Kong (beyond the fact that they do wear them), all I know is how one particular person from Hong Kong feels about masks.Come on. Seriously? Have you worn a mask? The idea that everyone (or even a majority) of people who wear one get a headache is just silly. And the experience of people from countries with a long history of wearing masks obviously trumps that of people from countries who are new to this and looking for excuses not to wear one.
I’ve worn a surgical mask for several hours, on multiple occasions. As a med student and as a junior doctor. Never quite a “full day” but often up 4 to 6 hours at a time. I never once got a headache from it. Nor did any of my peers. I’ve also never heard of this as an issue from surgeons, anaesthetists, theatre nurses and porters, who wear surgical masks for the majority of their working lives.Who said anything about everyone or a majority? I haven't worn a mask all day, no, and judging from your post neither have you. And if you haven't, then why are you arguing about this from personal experience? Since I haven't worn a mask all day, I've got to listen to anecdotal evidence either way. You might have a point, but I don't know how they feel about masks in Hong Kong (beyond the fact that they do wear them), all I know is how one particular person from Hong Kong feels about masks.
I also think it's a bit silly to say that someone's claims are just because they are looking for excuses not to wear one, particularly when the source of that claim (if we believe @RobinLFC) was a nurse, who is presumably perfectly aware of the necessity of wearing a mask.
They're required to wear cloth masks (not sure that's the right term, it's a thick fabric) at her school, so no surgical ones. It looks like this:I’ve worn a surgical mask for several hours, on multiple occasions. As a med student and as a junior doctor. Never quite a “full day” but often up 4 to 6 hours at a time. I never once got a headache from it. Nor did any of my peers. I’ve also never heard of this as an issue from surgeons, anaesthetists or theatre nurses, who wear surgical masks for the majority of their working lives.
I do know that the N95 respirator masks can be quite uncomfortable. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they cause a headache for some people that wear them. They definitely cause skin irritation and rashes. They clamp tightly onto your face and form an airtight seal. Which is not nice when worn for hours at a time. That’s not what the general public are being asked to wear though. In fact they’re being encouraged not to wear this type of mask.
I suspect @RobinLFC’s aunt is wearing one of these masks, hence her bad experience. Because, as I said, the idea that the light cotton face coverings/disposable surgical masks the general public are supposed to wear might cause headaches really makes no sense at all. And if someone has lived in a country where wearing face coverings like these has been a common occurrence for many years and says that headaches are not an issue, then we can safely assume they know what they’re talking about.
I neither trust or distrust bill gates although on the whole I admire his philanthropy. I do however trust the scientific method and the clinical trial process, so any vaccine that makes it past those tests, I'd be happy to take. Your attitude is medieval.It is true we all have different views and different ideas, but do you really trust this guy?I will not take his vaccine Bills Vaccine
Worth saying that RNA vaccines don't alter anyone's DNA. They just program the cells machinery to make antigens that trigger the immune system.Great source. A YouTube channel with 6 videos and 1k subscribers, and top quality comments on his videos such as:
Some critical thinking is required to have an opinion. I mean, you're sitting there in a thread called "the Mask debate" telling us that you won't be taking a vaccine because Bill Gates wants to alter your DNA for Luficer. Every single part of that is insane.
That’s similar to what I wear in shops/gym etc. I’ve never worn it for longer than a couple of hours. They are heavier than the disposable surgical masks so I guess they might cause more discomfort if you wore them for an 8 hour working day. That’s one thing you and I seem to agree on. It does seem extreme to ask all of Belgium to mask up all day, every day.They're required to wear cloth masks (not sure that's the right term, it's a thick fabric) at her school, so no surgical ones. It looks like this:
My missus' family is full of teachers and they all said the same thing, that it causes them headaches by the end of the day. You can dispute that all you want, I'll still believe them. I'm not arguing that masks in general cause headaches to people all around. You described it as an incredibly minor annoyance and I pointed out that that's definitely not true in certain circumstances. In general though, yes I agree, for most people they're just a minor annoyance if you only have to put it on for a small period of time when it's required.